fucking rubbish..ive still got a big scar on my forehead where an overzealous golden labrador took a chunk out of me.bah!

Thank you for reminding me of my least favorite Prince song. I am slowing slipping over to the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle. I gave up red meat twelve days ago. I am so craving a really rare steak right now.

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

need any help? i have some video footage that'll put you off that steak forever!

now that i live in nz ive starting eating meat as there are no veggie outlets over here..crap excuse i know.(i dont really cook).i need some good ol scare tactics to put me off meat for life...

doctor?

doctor is that you out there?

i was just looking at the daisiest daisy

quite beatiful.

jonylawson said:

try this - "Meet Your Meat" (about half way down on the right) is probably the most dramatic

http://www.petatv.com/veg.html

thanks..i cant watch vids at work so ill have 2 go 2 a cafe..ill let u know if its worked!

IAmTheTouch said:

I've been meaning to Orgnote you since my change. Are there any nutrients or vitamins that I'm missing? Should I be taking any supplements?

jonylawson said:

Judging from your avitar, i'd think you'd wanna avoid the doctor!!

shhh its a trap!

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

if you're going vegan, the only vitamin you HAVE to supplement is B12. the rest depends on how balanced your diet is - if you eat a well-balanced combination of whole grains, fruits and veggies, oils, and plant-based proteins, you'll be fine. i take a multi-vitamin just to be sure - i figure it can't hurt.

the best books i've found on the subject are called "Becoming Vegetarian" and "Becoming Vegan" (don't have the authors' names here right now, but you could do a search on amazon) - it's solid nutritional information that's well presented.

keep me posted on how you're doing - trust me, you'll never even consider eating dead animals after a while!

IAmTheTouch said:

Me eating fruits, grains and veggies...yeah right!!! I'm getting better but right now, it ain't happening. So I will get a multi- vitamin.

random thought...why do some people refuse to eat dairy and meat...but still wear leather shoes and that?

A goat tried to fuck me when I was about 8 years old.

Fucking animal kingdom!

Christopher said:

it's a process. when i first gave up meat, i didn't make the connection to leather. i wouldn't have worn a fur coat, but didn't think about the fact that leather is just fur without the hair.

the majority of people i've met are quite aware of all things pertaining to veg life and animal welfare, and you might be surprised that there's not as much hypocrisy as you might think.

IAmTheTouch said:

Perhaps this indicates a troubling lack of compassion on my part, but anyway... the other night I downloaded that video (high-resolution... didn't want to miss any details) and sat down to watch it while eating my (vegan) dinner. It didn't get much of a reaction out of me other than a casual, "Gee, that's really too bad." I did think the man who was killing baby pigs by slamming them headfirst onto a concrete floor deserved to be prosecuted for animal cruelty, but even then, it didn't do much for me emotionally.

My reasons for not eating animal products are intellectual, not emotional, and because of that, I often feel that I don't belong in the "vegan movement" as it exists.

IAmTheTouch said:

The B12 issue is interesting to me, and I look forward to more research on it. Perhaps it's an indication that trying to fuel the omnivorous human body with nothing but plant products is a bad idea. OTOH, I've come across the notion that fruit and vegetables tend to be "contaminated" with B12 until we wash them off--the problem may be that our food is "unnaturally" clean. I've also read that the human body might be able to produce and absorb B12 on its own, making B12 consumption unnecessary.

My physician, who is vegan-friendly, has indicated that B12 deficiency is found in both vegans and omnivores. To me, this suggests that consumption (or the lack thereof) may not be the cause. Still, to play it safe, I follow her recommendation to take a B12 supplement in addition to my B12-containing multivitamin.

IAmTheTouch said:

I so agree with you on all I have seen you write about a animal free diet. It really is a process. I am still letting things go, investigating things such as eco friendly products, studying veganism.

matt said:

ooh dah-ling

matt said:

I think that action is equal to that of killing people and I am just wondering, perhaps you are desensitised to seeing such things?

Christopher said:

Two other possibilities to add to what IAmTheTouch wrote...

1) The leather shoes could have been purchased pre-veganism. Since the harm is already done, the wearer may decide that it's better to keep using the shoes instead of wasting them.

2) The "leather" shoes could be synthetic. Although some are obviously fake, I've been impressed with a material called Lorica.

Therapy said:

Maybe. But I have seen footage of a suicide by gunshot to the head, as well as the Daniel Pearl video (decapitation), and those did affect me (albeit not very much).

I do feel that killing a person is worse than killing a non-human animal, if only because humans are capable of suffering in ways that non-human animals cannot.

Perhaps I'm desensitized to the suffering of animals because I ate them for the first 25 years of my life? I mean, I was fully aware that my beloved double cheeseburgers were dead cow on a bun.

Milty said:

Sorry if I came across as arrogant... that wasn't my intention. It just seems that a requirement for getting one's "vegan card" is a sentimental opposition to animal products. I simply don't have it.

IAmTheTouch said:

Damn,people are so fucking cruel its amazing.What about animal experiments?Alot of the products we use on a daily basis rely on the testing of animals.Calin Klein,Bausch & Lomb,Procter & Gamble,Arm & Hammer from a list of hundreds.Or does it matter cause there not being eaten?
[This message was edited Wed Feb 11 17:50:19 PST 2004 by crazyhorse]

matt said:

ok, i'll take that bait... please tell me what you mean by that.

IAmTheTouch said:

Putting it into words is difficult, but I'll try...

A human has a sense of existing through time that an animal lacks. If I'm thrown in a prison where I'm tortured, I might suffer because I'm worried that I'll be tortured for years to come. If somebody murders my partner, I might suffer because I realize that I'll have to live the rest of my life without her. And I can be traumatized by events in my past. But an animal's suffering is pretty much limited to a sense of, "This current situation is unpleasant."

If it's not obvious, my philosophical reason for avoiding animal products is preventing unnecessary suffering. It's not mere death or the (untenable) concept of "respect for all life."

bkw said:

matt said:

I agree with this, although I eat meat.

Therapy said:

On this I dont agree.
I watched that video and it was really fucked up.Cant believe they get away with stuff like that.But saying its equal to that of killing people is way off base in my opinion.Growing up seeing the things that I have make that impossible.And being desensitised has nothing to do with it.Its like Matt said,animals arent capable of suffering the way we do.Recently a little girl was abducted and murdered.Here is a video of her with the suspect.And below is a video of a hunting party.There both fucked situations same as the peta video but theres no comparing the loss of animals to the other on any level.

http://wbbhtv.com/News/st...ound.shtml

http://www.strangeland.co...l/lion.htm