Who said thou shalt not kill? If there is a GOD people are in trouble. The animals don't kill us unless we put ourselves in a situation where they can and only by instinct not because they need our body oils for the latest alligator perfume.












jonny laws wedding feast edit
[This message was edited Thu Feb 12 2:07:18 PST 2004 by PEJ]

matt said:

just for the record, there's no "secret vegan society", no "card", no "admission requirement" - it's everybody's very personal decision to go vegan or not.

none of the vegans i've met have a condescending attitude toward others, whether they be lacto-ovo, pescatarian, or full-fledged meat-eaters. i think it has something to do with the kind of peace you find in being vegan.

and if somebody considers me sentimental, i take that as a compliment.

Therapy said:

bkw said:

That was me in costume.

Cloudbuster said:

Cloudbuster said:

wrong forum!

IAmTheTouch said:

I think it's fair to say that there are admission requirements. For instance, on the dietary side of it, one must abstain from meat, dairy, eggs, honey, etc. If I ate steak, could I legitimately call myself a "vegan"?

On tbe issue of a "vegan society," I find the statements of the UK Vegan Society to carry a good deal of weight, since they're the people who invented the word "vegan." But I recognize that the group isn't a governing body for all of veganism.


There's a stereotype of vegetarians and vegans being obnoxiously self-righteous, and I believe that stereotypes are generally rooted in some kind of reality. My own experience is that some (not all) vegans/vegetarians meet the stereotype, and to some extent, they've spoiled the "vegan movement" for me.


I sincerely hope that you don't find what I'm about to say to be offensive... but "new age-ish" statements like that are part of why I don't identify with veganism as a movement. That's just not the type of person I am.


I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. It's just a fact that I'm not sentimental about it.

crazyhorse said:

There is a brainwashing that says that the life of an animal is less than equal to that of a human. I certainly have been brainwashed and I am moved by the witness of the death of an animal, but not as much as I would be a person, but let me tell you, there's not much between it. I strongly disagree with you that animals aren't capable of suffering the ways that humans do. Jesus, some animals have had to pay for it with EXTINCTION man... I maintain that it is the action of murder that is the same, not about who suffers the most.

matt said:

matt said:

Therapy said:

well put, Therapy!

even if one being experiences suffering at a so-called "higher level", how does that justify another being's suffering at a "lower level"? especially when that suffering is inflicted for no other reason than convenience and entertainment.

people can find justifications for their actions, such as "levels of suffering", or they can mock the efforts of others to make a difference -- in the end, these are all just justifications.
[This message was edited Thu Feb 12 17:09:29 PST 2004 by IAmTheTouch]

Therapy said:

I'm curious... how do you feel about abortion?

bkw said:

This explains a lot.

2the9s said:

EllisDee said:

:LOL:

Paisley said:

matt said:

I have been in the position where abortion was an option to me in the past. I have a 3 year old son. I personally could not do it.

While I could not do some things, I know that others can. I am allowed to have my opinion of what I think of issues, this one is about the equality in my mind of people and animals. I personally could not have an abortion, however I know that other people can, like I know that people eat meat... I don't agree with it for my own life.

Tomorrow,

over 25 million chickens,

323,000 pigs,

and 113,000 cows

will be forcibly removed from their families, many beaten and abused,
and slaughtered all in the name of a nice, guilt-free shrink wrapped product.

Do YOU lie 2 your children about what they're eating?

Ever taken a few seconds 2 wonder WHY an animal screams when it's slaughtered?

No?

Maybe u should sometime.

Dont u cry out and scream when YOU feel pain? So what's the difference?

I'll tell u - there's only one: and that's that we don't eat each other.

No living creature wants 2 see it's family slaughtered.

It takes a small person 2 kill a defenceless animal - and an even smaller one 2 eat it.

Happy Valentines Day.

bananacologne said:

I am very touched to read this.
Thanks, to you.

bananacologne said:

thank you, Nana! thank you for speaking out, for walking the walk, for making a difference.

bananacologne said:

:eeK::eeK::eeK::eeK::eeK::eeK:

i think you guys are missing matt's point, here... really...

oh wait, what was matt's point again...

oh yeah... "If I ate steak, could I legitimately call myself a 'vegan'?"... think about that... really... just think about it... so, what is your answer..? ...

EllisDee said:

tough one...

sinisterpentatonic said:

fed your cat IAMS tonight?

IAmTheTouch said:

What's up with IAMS?

sinisterpentatonic said:

i thought you were reacting to the footage in Nana's link... if you do feed your cat IAMS, you may want to watch it...

EllisDee said:

IAmTheTouch said:

I was I must've missed the IAMS bit, I'll rewatch it.

sinisterpentatonic said:

oops, my bad... i thought it was this one...

http://www.petatv.com/tvp...video=iams
[This message was edited Fri Feb 13 18:56:13 PST 2004 by IAmTheTouch]

2the9s said:

exactly how are we defining "vegan" here..?