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Thread started 02/11/04 8:22am

jonylawson

"no memeber of the animal kingdom ever did a thing to me"

fucking rubbish..ive still got a big scar on my forehead where an overzealous golden labrador took a chunk out of me.bah!
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Reply #1 posted 02/11/04 8:24am

TheOrgerFormer
lyKnownAs

lol Thank you for reminding me of my least favorite Prince song. I am slowing slipping over to the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle. I gave up red meat twelve days ago. I am so craving a really rare steak right now.
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Reply #2 posted 02/11/04 8:27am

IAmTheTouch

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

lol Thank you for reminding me of my least favorite Prince song. I am slowing slipping over to the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle. I gave up red meat twelve days ago. I am so craving a really rare steak right now.


need any help? i have some video footage that'll put you off that steak forever! wink
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Reply #3 posted 02/11/04 8:29am

jonylawson

now that i live in nz ive starting eating meat as there are no veggie outlets over here..crap excuse i know.(i dont really cook).i need some good ol scare tactics to put me off meat for life...
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Reply #4 posted 02/11/04 8:30am

jonylawson

doctor?

doctor is that you out there?
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Reply #5 posted 02/11/04 8:32am

jonylawson

i was just looking at the daisiest daisy

quite beatiful.
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Reply #6 posted 02/11/04 8:35am

IAmTheTouch

jonylawson said:

now that i live in nz ive starting eating meat as there are no veggie outlets over here..crap excuse i know.(i dont really cook).i need some good ol scare tactics to put me off meat for life...


try this - "Meet Your Meat" (about half way down on the right) is probably the most dramatic

http://www.petatv.com/veg.html
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Reply #7 posted 02/11/04 8:41am

jonylawson

thanks..i cant watch vids at work so ill have 2 go 2 a cafe..ill let u know if its worked!
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Reply #8 posted 02/11/04 9:02am

TheOrgerFormer
lyKnownAs

IAmTheTouch said:

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

lol Thank you for reminding me of my least favorite Prince song. I am slowing slipping over to the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle. I gave up red meat twelve days ago. I am so craving a really rare steak right now.


need any help? i have some video footage that'll put you off that steak forever! wink
I've been meaning to Orgnote you since my change. Are there any nutrients or vitamins that I'm missing? Should I be taking any supplements?
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Reply #9 posted 02/11/04 9:17am

Ashtheking

avatar

jonylawson said:

doctor?

doctor is that you out there?



Judging from your avitar, i'd think you'd wanna avoid the doctor!!
In my own way, I am the king. Hail to the king, baby!! chainsaw
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Reply #10 posted 02/11/04 9:35am

jonylawson

shhh its a trap!
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Reply #11 posted 02/11/04 10:20am

IAmTheTouch

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

IAmTheTouch said:

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

lol Thank you for reminding me of my least favorite Prince song. I am slowing slipping over to the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle. I gave up red meat twelve days ago. I am so craving a really rare steak right now.


need any help? i have some video footage that'll put you off that steak forever! wink
I've been meaning to Orgnote you since my change. Are there any nutrients or vitamins that I'm missing? Should I be taking any supplements?


if you're going vegan, the only vitamin you HAVE to supplement is B12. the rest depends on how balanced your diet is - if you eat a well-balanced combination of whole grains, fruits and veggies, oils, and plant-based proteins, you'll be fine. i take a multi-vitamin just to be sure - i figure it can't hurt.

the best books i've found on the subject are called "Becoming Vegetarian" and "Becoming Vegan" (don't have the authors' names here right now, but you could do a search on amazon) - it's solid nutritional information that's well presented.

keep me posted on how you're doing - trust me, you'll never even consider eating dead animals after a while! nod
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Reply #12 posted 02/11/04 11:00am

TheOrgerFormer
lyKnownAs

IAmTheTouch said:

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

IAmTheTouch said:

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

lol Thank you for reminding me of my least favorite Prince song. I am slowing slipping over to the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle. I gave up red meat twelve days ago. I am so craving a really rare steak right now.


need any help? i have some video footage that'll put you off that steak forever! wink
I've been meaning to Orgnote you since my change. Are there any nutrients or vitamins that I'm missing? Should I be taking any supplements?


if you're going vegan, the only vitamin you HAVE to supplement is B12. the rest depends on how balanced your diet is - if you eat a well-balanced combination of whole grains, fruits and veggies, oils, and plant-based proteins, you'll be fine. i take a multi-vitamin just to be sure - i figure it can't hurt.

the best books i've found on the subject are called "Becoming Vegetarian" and "Becoming Vegan" (don't have the authors' names here right now, but you could do a search on amazon) - it's solid nutritional information that's well presented.

keep me posted on how you're doing - trust me, you'll never even consider eating dead animals after a while! nod
Me eating fruits, grains and veggies...yeah right!!!lol I'm getting better but right now, it ain't happening. So I will get a multi- vitamin.
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Reply #13 posted 02/11/04 2:31pm

Christopher

avatar

random thought...why do some people refuse to eat dairy and meat...but still wear leather shoes and that? confused
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Reply #14 posted 02/11/04 2:34pm

bkw

avatar

A goat tried to fuck me when I was about 8 years old. eek

Fucking animal kingdom! evil
When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading.
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Reply #15 posted 02/11/04 2:41pm

IAmTheTouch

Christopher said:

random thought...why do some people refuse to eat dairy and meat...but still wear leather shoes and that? confused


it's a process. when i first gave up meat, i didn't make the connection to leather. i wouldn't have worn a fur coat, but didn't think about the fact that leather is just fur without the hair.

the majority of people i've met are quite aware of all things pertaining to veg life and animal welfare, and you might be surprised that there's not as much hypocrisy as you might think.
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Reply #16 posted 02/11/04 4:16pm

matt

Sr. Moderator

moderator

IAmTheTouch said:

try this - "Meet Your Meat" (about half way down on the right) is probably the most dramatic

http://www.petatv.com/veg.html


Perhaps this indicates a troubling lack of compassion on my part, but anyway... the other night I downloaded that video (high-resolution... didn't want to miss any details) and sat down to watch it while eating my (vegan) dinner. It didn't get much of a reaction out of me other than a casual, "Gee, that's really too bad." I did think the man who was killing baby pigs by slamming them headfirst onto a concrete floor deserved to be prosecuted for animal cruelty, but even then, it didn't do much for me emotionally.

My reasons for not eating animal products are intellectual, not emotional, and because of that, I often feel that I don't belong in the "vegan movement" as it exists. sigh
Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position.
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Reply #17 posted 02/11/04 4:36pm

matt

Sr. Moderator

moderator

IAmTheTouch said:

if you're going vegan, the only vitamin you HAVE to supplement is B12.


The B12 issue is interesting to me, and I look forward to more research on it. Perhaps it's an indication that trying to fuel the omnivorous human body with nothing but plant products is a bad idea. OTOH, I've come across the notion that fruit and vegetables tend to be "contaminated" with B12 until we wash them off--the problem may be that our food is "unnaturally" clean. I've also read that the human body might be able to produce and absorb B12 on its own, making B12 consumption unnecessary.

My physician, who is vegan-friendly, has indicated that B12 deficiency is found in both vegans and omnivores. To me, this suggests that consumption (or the lack thereof) may not be the cause. Still, to play it safe, I follow her recommendation to take a B12 supplement in addition to my B12-containing multivitamin.
Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position.
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Reply #18 posted 02/11/04 4:40pm

Therapy

IAmTheTouch said:

Christopher said:

random thought...why do some people refuse to eat dairy and meat...but still wear leather shoes and that? confused


it's a process. when i first gave up meat, i didn't make the connection to leather. i wouldn't have worn a fur coat, but didn't think about the fact that leather is just fur without the hair.

the majority of people i've met are quite aware of all things pertaining to veg life and animal welfare, and you might be surprised that there's not as much hypocrisy as you might think.


I so highfive agree with you on all I have seen you write about a animal free diet. It really is a process. I am still letting things go, investigating things such as eco friendly products, studying veganism.
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Reply #19 posted 02/11/04 4:41pm

Milty

avatar

matt said:

My reasons for not eating animal products are intellectual


ooh dah-ling
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Reply #20 posted 02/11/04 4:43pm

Therapy

matt said:

IAmTheTouch said:

try this - "Meet Your Meat" (about half way down on the right) is probably the most dramatic

http://www.petatv.com/veg.html


It didn't get much of a reaction out of me other than a casual, "Gee, that's really too bad." I did think the man who was killing baby pigs by slamming them headfirst onto a concrete floor deserved to be prosecuted for animal cruelty, but even then, it didn't do much for me emotionally.


I think that action is equal to that of killing people and I am just wondering, perhaps you are desensitised to seeing such things? shrug
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Reply #21 posted 02/11/04 4:47pm

matt

Sr. Moderator

moderator

Christopher said:

random thought...why do some people refuse to eat dairy and meat...but still wear leather shoes and that? confused


Two other possibilities to add to what IAmTheTouch wrote...

1) The leather shoes could have been purchased pre-veganism. Since the harm is already done, the wearer may decide that it's better to keep using the shoes instead of wasting them.

2) The "leather" shoes could be synthetic. Although some are obviously fake, I've been impressed with a material called Lorica.
Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position.
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Reply #22 posted 02/11/04 4:54pm

matt

Sr. Moderator

moderator

Therapy said:

matt said:


It didn't get much of a reaction out of me other than a casual, "Gee, that's really too bad." I did think the man who was killing baby pigs by slamming them headfirst onto a concrete floor deserved to be prosecuted for animal cruelty, but even then, it didn't do much for me emotionally.


I think that action is equal to that of killing people and I am just wondering, perhaps you are desensitised to seeing such things? shrug


Maybe. But I have seen footage of a suicide by gunshot to the head, as well as the Daniel Pearl video (decapitation), and those did affect me (albeit not very much).

I do feel that killing a person is worse than killing a non-human animal, if only because humans are capable of suffering in ways that non-human animals cannot.

Perhaps I'm desensitized to the suffering of animals because I ate them for the first 25 years of my life? shrug I mean, I was fully aware that my beloved double cheeseburgers were dead cow on a bun.
Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position.
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Reply #23 posted 02/11/04 4:58pm

matt

Sr. Moderator

moderator

Milty said:

matt said:

My reasons for not eating animal products are intellectual


ooh dah-ling


Sorry if I came across as arrogant... that wasn't my intention. It just seems that a requirement for getting one's "vegan card" is a sentimental opposition to animal products. I simply don't have it. shrug
Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position.
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Reply #24 posted 02/11/04 5:18pm

crazyhorse

IAmTheTouch said:

jonylawson said:

now that i live in nz ive starting eating meat as there are no veggie outlets over here..crap excuse i know.(i dont really cook).i need some good ol scare tactics to put me off meat for life...


try this - "Meet Your Meat" (about half way down on the right) is probably the most dramatic

http://www.petatv.com/veg.html


Damn,people are so fucking cruel its amazing.What about animal experiments?Alot of the products we use on a daily basis rely on the testing of animals.Calin Klein,Bausch & Lomb,Procter & Gamble,Arm & Hammer from a list of hundreds.Or does it matter cause there not being eaten?
[This message was edited Wed Feb 11 17:50:19 PST 2004 by crazyhorse]
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Reply #25 posted 02/11/04 5:33pm

IAmTheTouch

matt said:

Therapy said:

matt said:


It didn't get much of a reaction out of me other than a casual, "Gee, that's really too bad." I did think the man who was killing baby pigs by slamming them headfirst onto a concrete floor deserved to be prosecuted for animal cruelty, but even then, it didn't do much for me emotionally.


I think that action is equal to that of killing people and I am just wondering, perhaps you are desensitised to seeing such things? shrug


Maybe. But I have seen footage of a suicide by gunshot to the head, as well as the Daniel Pearl video (decapitation), and those did affect me (albeit not very much).

I do feel that killing a person is worse than killing a non-human animal, if only because humans are capable of suffering in ways that non-human animals cannot.

Perhaps I'm desensitized to the suffering of animals because I ate them for the first 25 years of my life? shrug I mean, I was fully aware that my beloved double cheeseburgers were dead cow on a bun.


ok, i'll take that bait... please tell me what you mean by that.
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Reply #26 posted 02/11/04 5:54pm

matt

Sr. Moderator

moderator

IAmTheTouch said:

matt said:

I do feel that killing a person is worse than killing a non-human animal, if only because humans are capable of suffering in ways that non-human animals cannot.

ok, i'll take that bait... please tell me what you mean by that.


Putting it into words is difficult, but I'll try...

A human has a sense of existing through time that an animal lacks. If I'm thrown in a prison where I'm tortured, I might suffer because I'm worried that I'll be tortured for years to come. If somebody murders my partner, I might suffer because I realize that I'll have to live the rest of my life without her. And I can be traumatized by events in my past. But an animal's suffering is pretty much limited to a sense of, "This current situation is unpleasant."

If it's not obvious, my philosophical reason for avoiding animal products is preventing unnecessary suffering. It's not mere death or the (untenable) concept of "respect for all life."
Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position.
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Reply #27 posted 02/11/04 10:26pm

luv4u

Moderator

avatar

moderator

bkw said:

A goat tried to fuck me when I was about 8 years old. eek

Fucking animal kingdom! evil


falloff
canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #28 posted 02/11/04 11:11pm

fauxnewbie

matt said:

IAmTheTouch said:

matt said:

I do feel that killing a person is worse than killing a non-human animal, if only because humans are capable of suffering in ways that non-human animals cannot.

ok, i'll take that bait... please tell me what you mean by that.


Putting it into words is difficult, but I'll try...

A human has a sense of existing through time that an animal lacks. If I'm thrown in a prison where I'm tortured, I might suffer because I'm worried that I'll be tortured for years to come. If somebody murders my partner, I might suffer because I realize that I'll have to live the rest of my life without her. And I can be traumatized by events in my past. But an animal's suffering is pretty much limited to a sense of, "This current situation is unpleasant."

If it's not obvious, my philosophical reason for avoiding animal products is preventing unnecessary suffering. It's not mere death or the (untenable) concept of "respect for all life."


I agree with this, although I eat meat.
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Reply #29 posted 02/12/04 1:46am

crazyhorse

Therapy said:


I think that action is equal to that of killing people and I am just wondering, perhaps you are desensitised to seeing such things? shrug


On this I dont agree.
I watched that video and it was really fucked up.Cant believe they get away with stuff like that.But saying its equal to that of killing people is way off base in my opinion.Growing up seeing the things that I have make that impossible.And being desensitised has nothing to do with it.Its like Matt said,animals arent capable of suffering the way we do.Recently a little girl was abducted and murdered.Here is a video of her with the suspect.And below is a video of a hunting party.There both fucked situations same as the peta video but theres no comparing the loss of animals to the other on any level.

http://wbbhtv.com/News/st...ound.shtml

http://www.strangeland.co...l/lion.htm
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