JediMaster said:

Oh, like Xorn turned out to be be Magneto in New X-Men? Clever ruse, I'll give you that.
[This message was edited Tue Feb 3 9:27:19 PST 2004 by scififilmnerd]

What's that saying?

"It's no good trying to shut the stable door when the horse has bolted"

somewhat appropriate.

JediMaster said:

well, honestly dave, i would say no you should not leave. but i do think you have some real mending to do with people. i would say the same goes for applkisses, supa, matt and tackam. the rest... frankly, i don't see it happening.

AlfofMelmak said:

Don't be so quick to let your emotions tell you that there are actually God-created souls out there with absolutely nothing of value...or that any creation in Life is unworthy of your time.

"Talk with" is always better than "Talk about"...think if everyone from the other site had that perspective, because that site was the epidome of "Talk about"...

AlfofMelmak said:

cborgman said:

You're probably right.

MD7 said:

And who are you trying to pretend you're not, MD7?

JediMaster said:

If you never intended harm, then i truly hope you learn to think before you type that kind of shit. It's very hard for me to believe that you're so ignorant as to the responses you receive now. Did you really expect no comments at all on your behaviour ?

Teacher said:

No, I did not read them and will not.

What I do care about is Handsclaps, Chris, 2the9s, RD, C.

I will not buy into this evil. Do you see how it is permeating the entire ORg..

AlfofMelmak said:

No, I didn't, because of where I was posting them. That doesn't make it right, but that is why. The jokes, as I said, were all intended on my part to make fun of the attitudes behind them. I knew the folks on that site would understand that, but it leaked beyond those people. Now, my words have hurt people whom I never intended to hurt, and I truly regret it. I think all the people who are upset are quite justified. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I can at least come clean as to why I did what I did. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it cool, but at least I can hope that some folks will get that the motivation wasn't out of maliciousness to anyone, except for people who truly do believe that way. It wasn't interpreted that way, and I now have to face all y'all for what I said.

JediMaster said:

trust me, i had a very hard time not jumping down your throat. i can't remember the last time i was that angry.

i'm glad we were able to keep it constructive. no promises for next time, though!

Byron said:

Absolutely nothing of value... I'll think about that. But i do believe there are people to who it is just no use to talk to. No side will gain anything from talking; "We agree to disagree " to the extreme. Unworthy is a large concept, my friend.

I agree that to talk "with" tops "about", but reality dictates that "with" may be utterly useless, and i think that a conversation may lead to a negative effect for both sides. Maybe a state of 'Let it be' will then be most beneficial.

I realize there are a lot of crossroads in my arguments.

JediMaster said:

I think my main disbelief with you is that you actually think that you were posting that crap in private. Its a website dude. Why the f*** did Teller make the forum public?

btw it sounds like you regret that your posts are out in the open, instead of regretting the content. Am i wrong?

Jedimaster said:

Sorry dude, but that isn't the legal reality. Free speech is limited and regulated by law and it has to be in a democratci environment. That's the difference between democracy and anarchy. In a totaliatarian state you have no freedom of speech at all. So looking at the org as a "totalitarian" website, just because free speech is regulated, doesn't make sense.

That being said, I have no clue whatsoever what this "controversy" is all about and what this "other site"
is supposed to be.

What I do have a clue about is that apparantly some orgers, who got banned several times for breaking the org's site rules, want to group together and fight the orgers they don't like. Coupled to that, according to your post, they are expressing their true thoughts on race, homosexuality, etc. on this "other site" in a highly offensive manner, showing no respect whatsoever for the ones who may feel hurt or offended by it. Worse yet, the goal seems to be to actually hurt those others. Apparantly this, in turn, leads to reactions from orgers like MD7, who consistently seems to have no qualms whatsoever to equate orgers with KKK members.

So in the end what it looks like you are all getting with your behaviour is a division in the org community caused by some orgers themselves. The org may now turn into a more hostile and less open minded environment when the people frequenting this site lower themselves to these kind of offensive actions. That will not benefit anybody. In fact, it may become the first chapter in the downfall of the org, which a lot of orgers won't be thanking the ones who like to "heat things up" for...

Sad.


--
[This message was edited Tue Feb 3 9:58:08 PST 2004 by Abrazo]

IAmTheTouch said:

There will not be a next time, that I promise you. If I had known I was going to hurt this many people, even some of whom I don't like, I never would have done it. I cannot undo what I did, so I can only hope to face this like a man and try to atone somehow. My respect for you has grown about 1000% that you were able to be so eloquent when you were so angry.

AlfofMelmak said:

True...but in this specific case, gains were indeed being made...he said so himself.


LoL...there may be a few...

AlfofMelmak said:

It must be hard for those people for whom this is something new. There have been many of us who have been dealing with this shit -- these issues, these people -- for months now. When we brought these issues to the attention of the moderator (as we are told to do, who in this case was Ian, who was steamrolling everyone else) he would accuse us of being on a witch hunt, shit starting, being mentally ill, being crybabies, being as bad as them, etc etc etc... And instead WE were villified and deactivated by Ian.

This is nothing new I assure you. And it's not like IceNine was deactivated out of the blue, as he would have you believe. He's been banned from several sites (PFams, OkayPlayer etc). There are patterns of behavior on both the parts of users and moderators. But now that we see them speaking in their own words, there can be no doubt.

I'm with Alf on this at the moment.

AlfofMelmak said:

No. I now realise that these comments have actually caused pain. THAT'S what I'm sorry for. I'm not happy they were made public, but in a way its good that they are. Iamthetouch and Byron have really opened my eyes, and I'm re-evaluating a whole lot of things in my life due to this.

JediMaster said:

well, you have won me back over, but i can not speak for everyone, only myself.

The fact that someone would work so hard to justify people's jokes about child molestation and racism says a lot about that individual.
You might consider quitting trying to explain your viewpoints Mr. Jedimaster, if you have any interest in maintaining your own dignity that is.
If you're enjoying digging a deeper hole though, you're doing an outstanding job at that.

Armageddicon said:

If you read the entire thread, I'm not trying to justify anything. I think I did start off with that intent, but now I'm trying to make ammends. I'm not worried about my dignity, since I did a pretty good job of fucking it up on my own. Let's just say that Iamthetouch and Byron really made me realise what a jackass I was, and now I'm trying to apoligise in any way possible.

Now I'm looking at things in a very different way. I never really put much weight into what words can do. They have real power, and I'm really just waking up to this. What is an innocent joke to you can be a vicious attack that truly hurts someone else. I NEVER wanted that, and I still don't. I love people of many different races and walks of life, but my words made me appear to be a racist, homophobic dickweed. I know some people will never accept my apology, and I can understand that. That doesn't mean I shouldn't do everything in my power to make it up to them.

JediMaster said:

Personally, I admire your willingness to apologize...and to try and talk--and answer questions--about yourself, your actions, your words. Only you know if your words now are sincere...

Byron said:

Jedi, I too agree with your assessments on free speech on this site and I also agree that some members have been dealt with harshly on baiting threads where other members continue to bait without consequence.

JediMaster said:

Haha well it is the day after and of course you've earned being hounded in the short term. Like I said to Aaron in all seriousness though seek help away from computer because it's not healthy letting Prince.Org anger you so much that you begin spewing such bile and hatred in a nasty minded little clique.

Do I think you've suddenly changed? Nah, if Teller's site was still up you'd of been laughing and mocking the Prince.org reaction would you not? Trying to equate my linking you all to the KKK as equally offensive, after the fact of the website being revealed proves that perhaps you haven't really understood anything at all out of this...

MD7 said:

& who is the woman applekisses? that's the silliness that I love, unfortunately some have been deactivated for this kind of subtlety

Byron said:

I have just been checking that mirror site and I saw A LOT of disgusting shit over there. From some banned orgers, like Icenine, Aaron and Chemmie, their hate and racism didn't surprise me the least, but it did surprise me to see some others going a long 'just fine; with it, including you jedimaster. I guess you truly had a 'blast'.

Whatever your personal motivations and your current apologies really mean, I agree with Byron that only you know if your words now are sincere.

Further, I hope that the ones who have been banned several times from the org and the ones who are now showing their true colors over there will not return to the org again. The org will be a much better place without them.

It just saddens me so when I see how much racism is still going on in this world.

JediMaster said:

Oh, shut the fuck up on you "coping with it". I understand irony and dark humor, but there is nothing funny in the least about saying things like: "How do you make a 5 year old cry twice? Wipe your dick on her teddy bear to wipe the blood off." That's absolutely disgusting, and somethings aren't meant to be joked about. From those comments, yes, it does seem like you're a-okay with child molestation since it's not an issue you take seriously. And, no, I'm not the one who's mentally challenged.