TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

The spirit of the post was to laugh at the people who SERIOUSLY use that word (it was one post...let's keep that clear)...to take the power out of that word. But, I see now that even MENTIONING it is enough to get one labeled as a racist...no matter how untrue it may be.

MD7 said:

Pardon me if I refuse to choose amongst the positions you are offering me.

I don't care if people tell racist jokes, particularly when it is in the spirit of making fun of moderation, rather than actual hatred (and I do believe that is the case). Really. I have a very libertarian attitude towards humor, even if I'm a little sketchy on the economics.

Teller is a very bright, thought-provoking guy and I like him a lot. I've enjoyed participating in his site, and I'm sorry that it is down at the moment. I love the concept of the Center For Banned and Departed Orgers. It's hilarious.

There have been some very nasty, cruel, and yes, racist things said on the org. Shall I demand an apology from you for continuing to post here? C'mon.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Funny...before I saw that you posted on this thread I was about to post in your "defense," saying that I didn't see anything that YOU said, and it's likely that you weren't aware of how hateful other posts were. I have to say that personally I did feel a twinge of hurt when I saw you in there...especially because it was after Aaron's AIDS comment. If anything good comes of this, I hope it's that nobody on the org has to deal with Aaron and his drama anymore.

Anyway, Supa...I think it's pretty obvious that the things that people are reacting to are not things that you believe or would say...but I also think you should try to understand that it is hurtful to people who feel like they know someone and are friends with that person, and then they see something that makes them challenge all of that.

So...just out of curiosity then, how WOULD you react to Aaron's comment? Here's your chance.

I joined the site last night when I saw what he wrote...because it filled me with disgust, and I felt like if I ignored it then I was implicitly guilty.

applekisses said:

I am by no means calling you a racist.

June7 said:

I'm not going to revisit the 'tackam' stuff here, but I will say that you do not understand my perspective regarding what happened here and why I left (and let me say that I'm SO glad I came back, because this is just way too much fun! ). Personally attacking me about that old crap doesn't do anybody any good here. May I kindly suggest that you knock it the fuck off? Thanks so much.

I am a decent person. My involvement in that site was not in jest or secrecy. And I do not take responsibility for the unkind statements of others. I do feel like people are misunderstanding the spirit of those threads, but if you feel that they are unexcusable under any circumstances, you are welcome to your opinion. In any case, I'm not responsible for that content. It's really simple. My avatar does not have any racist jokes to the right of it. Period.

MelissaC said:

I have nothing to apologise for, I respect your libertarian view on humour but totally disagree with your assertion that the racism etc over on Teller's website was some form of deep satire and rebellion rather than genuine hatred. Very naive of you IMO.

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

You may be the only one...

MelissaC said:

OK...this is NOT a cut-and-dry, black-and-white issue...Melissa, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter in such a coherent, non-inflammatory way.

I know for a fact that Melissa is a beautiful person with a gorgeous, open soul...it's one of the things that made me pause last night...and I DO understand the frustration that arises from certain people on the Org calling you a racist when it's like "Dude, my favorite musician in the world is fucking PRINCE, I ain't fucking racist...you're the one who is CONSTANTLY bringing it up!" -- I don't know.

Just wanted to thank you, Melissa, for helping me out on this one...I mean I'm more confused than ever, but that's cool. I feel a lot better about the whole thing. I still think Aaron's a bad person - and I don't think that about a lot of people in this world.

MD7 said:

I agree, you have nothing to apologize for, that's my point. And neither do I.

I think "deep satire and rebellion" is EXACTLY right. Naive? Oh, maybe. But you don't know those guys personally any better than I do (so far as I'm aware), so we're both speculating, methinks.

I wonder if I was spoke of over "there"??

.
[This message was edited Tue Feb 3 12:41:14 PST 2004 by BabyCakes]

applekisses said:

you are okay by me hon

theblueangel said:

Well, I too can pretty much get along with anybody, but Aaron and I have a mutually acknowledged dislike for each other, let's put it that way.

Thanks for trying to see the shades of grey here.

BabyCakes said:

No, but I spoke of you here.

Like this:

MD7 said:[quote]

AlfofMelmak said:

MD7, I don't know who you are, but I have a STRONG feeling that I've talked to you before, on another website, with a different name. Mind you, MY name was the same, because it's always the same.

Speaking of which, I've mentioned a few times that I joined last night to tell Aaron how much I appreciate his pathetic internal homophobia...so since you're just simply including a factual list of the members, no more and no less - you better add theblueangel to that list, I suppose.

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

I've vote for her regardless. Regardless. At least it will show up that someone still cares for her and respects her.

you got my vote lady, regardless what prince profile you are under.

MD7 spewed:


Thass cool, cuz I'm into brown showers ANYdamnway.

Not really.

Why so sanctimonious, MD7? Get off your bully pulpit. Question: do you get offended when you hear someone making fun of white people? That's not a racist or baiting comment...I seriously am curious, because I don't think that you would, and I don't understand that. Maybe I'm wrong...

theblueangel said:

OK...I'm sitting here and I'm cracking up that I only put a few toes in the water and some people think I'm a shark as opposed to Little Nemo There is no way to prove what I read and what I didn't read. I was fairly new to the site and hadn't really had the time to check it out in detail. All I can tell you is that I was only actively posting within the last week, and as there were 10 pages of posts, I did not cull through them to see what was there. I only started my own threads about beeing cheeky with my sexuality because it's obvious that the boys over there can handle whatever come on I throw their way. It was just havin fun there like I do here.

Now the only reason I'm even speaking up about this is not because I need to defend myself, I don't. But I have seen the reactions of many people I honestly and truly care about. Not just care about but love. And I see that they were hurt with my association. Hurting people is not what I'm about. My threads here only bear witness to that. The racist and homophobic things that were said were not said by me, nor were they endorsed by me. Until this morning I had not read those threads. I was too damn busy tryina get Teller to make the switch and dump the bitch (do not get me wrong here, I thought his wife was a lot of fun and don't think she's a bitch at all, I was just making a joke see?

I do have a thread that is on the mirror site, "If RDHull gets banned from the org, will you welcome him with open arms?" That thread was a joke, nothing more. In that thread I confronted Aarron for the way he ranted and raved over Chris Borgman. He and RD had been tag teaming Chris for a long while. I sat back and said nothing about it, leaving Chris to fight his own battles. But when I saw that he was being slandered I stepped up to the plate and started debating RD over his tactics and interpretation of Chris. On Teller's site you will see that I said the same thing about the situation there that I did here. The dragging RD part wasn't a comment I made or supported. I have just invited RD to a dinner and certainly would not even consider associating with the man if I hated him in that way. The thing with RD is that I didn't agree with his tactics and was actually seeking to make things more positive instead of him and Chris bickering back and forth and misunderstanding each other and on and on.

And what would I say to Aaron? Well, I had been planning to tackle this issue with him, namely why he can openly say he's gay and then not support any of our issues and mock them. I have called him on making weak pot shots when he was here and absolutely without hesitation would have stood up and corrected him for the "faggoty ass Aids" remarks. I think it was totally wrong for him to attack Chris on such a low level and had I read that I would not have sat passively by. You know this about me. I got a big mouth and aint afraid to use it.

theblueangel said:

Whutchu talkin about Willis? That's a June7 post you've replied to there not mine.

What is your problem with their post though? Your time and accuasations of bullying are best spent on the guilty rather than the messenger surely?
[This message was edited Tue Feb 3 13:13:50 PST 2004 by MD7]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Darlin', I don't think anybody really believes that you have anything other than a good heart. People are just hyperventilating about this at the moment. I don't like that people I'm fond of seem to have been hurt/offended, but I do think that anybody who would direct that hurt/offense at the whole bunch of us is overreacting. You've done nothing wrong, and IMHO, you shouldn't be feeling bad about that hurt. . .none of it is your fault.

2the9s said:

You really are a damn fungus... Beat it.. or I will have to hurt you!!

MD7 said:

Regardless of whether or not the quote above belongs to you or not, you really have the nerve to talk. You are as big a baiter as Icenine ever was. Your "factual" list isn't factual at all. By listing the site as KKKuaid, instead of it's factual name "Quaid", you insinuate and make out the entire cast of characters as racists.

The point that there is a double standard here, remains as a valid issue. This thread is a great example of the double standard:

http://www.prince.org/msg...sg_1385171

When Icenine created posts supporting his position that the reason that reverse racism existed was due to the fact that Affirmative action were in place and therefore affirmative action should be discontinued, what happened. His threads got locked and deleted, even though he was making a valid point from his perspective. Many, myself included, stepped up and debated the validity of his statement and pointed out the absurdity of them as well.

But the thread above can be created in which the initial post about racism and homophobia is riddled with divisiveness yet it stood for quite a while before being locked and it looks as if it was locked based on taking a personal dispute private and not addressing some of the extremely divisive dialogue inbetween. Tony gets banned for baiting threads yet perpetrators on the other side of the fence remain.

Chris's point: that RD using gay stereotypes in his approach to his personal dispute with Chris. And that if Chris had used black stereotypes in return there would have been an uproar where as there is no mention or notice when someone uses gay stereotypes.
[This message was edited Tue Feb 3 13:46:11 PST 2004 by SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Those names are listed because they took part (to lesser or greater extent) in some fucked up shit. Don't take part in fucked up website of shit then you didn't go on the list, simple.

Do you still want to seduce the vile Teller who created the whole thing? What about IceNine? You sound all on his dick too, trying to make out pointing out the wrong is as bad as the wrong is some really lame apologist level of thought. Poor stuff man.

applekisses said:

Again, I say: there has been plenty of nasty shit posted on the org over the years. Should each and every person who didn't reply to those threads with shock and condemnation be put on a little list and given a sound spanking?

MD7, you are being absofuckinglutely ridiculous.

MelissaC said:

If you and Supa feel no guilt at all for being part of that website then don't worry about my factual "little list".

MelissaC said:

it is the whole purpose of this mirror website that has been called into question
the disgusting attitude of people who felt they
had to create a new website just to vent their insecurities
at least here on the org, if we hate each other, we say so

MD7 said:

What is truly lame is your inabillity to understand the point I just made. The point still stands that you and others can easily label people as racists and nothing is said about it.

MD7 said:

i love the way some people can justify their shit
fuck it man
muse, supa, melissa, matt and all the others i cant be bothered to name
obviously think that it is cool to talk some weird shit behind peoples backs