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PrintableAnotherLoverToo said: I'm just gonna ask--enough of the hypotheticals.
Jen, is this just purely a philosophical discussion, or are you considering suicide for yourself? I'm done considering  | |
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Teacher said: AnotherLoverToo said: I'm just gonna ask--enough of the hypotheticals.
Jen, is this just purely a philosophical discussion, or are you considering suicide for yourself? I'm done considering And what's your verdict?  | |
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Lleena said: I think that our natural instincts as human beings is to preserve life rather than destroy it or see it destroyed. I think that if society viewed suicide as a viable option, What value is there on life? I think we should concentrate on treating the mindset of the potentially suicidal person rather than attemting to say "It's okay if you want to, we don't mind," because WE SHOULD CARE and do our utmost to prevent it from happening. If someone is intent on commiting suicide we have a responsibilty to help them, because suicide stems from depression, which can be treated. It's an emotive issue.
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Teacher said: Aerogram said: Teacher said: Aerogram said: In short, I do believe that mental health is involved in most suicides, especially those based on a person's view of his own worth. We are often the worst judge of our character, and that is never more true that in the case of depression. The depressed person often thinks his outlook is Reality with a capital R, when in fact it is altered by the person's self-image.
Where does it say that a person's self image is only the "right" one if they feel ok or good about themselves? To me, it SHOULD be my right to view me as I see fit, who says that image is wrong? I think that shrinks and do-gooders need to accept that some people don't want to go on with life, and deal with THEIR self image instead. If they feel ok about themselves, then why is it necessary to end what is "ok"? That's not feeling "ok". When a person wants to die, even situations that can be solved look unsovable or not worth solving. Depression deforms perception, and the afflicted person is not fully aware of the extent of this distortion, because that's what they truly perceive through their mental prism. I didn't know my sight was blurry until I got glasses -- I thought everyone saw like that. If you don't believe in this stuff, I cannot convince you. I've explained what I know about this topic. There are other schools of thoughts, but I can tell you what I just told you is absolutely textbook and accepted by 99 % of mental health and addiction professionals, and backed up with thousands of case studies. U misunderstood what I wrote. I said that it's only acceptable if they ALREADY FEEL ok or good, not otherwise. That's the problem I feel, some things are just not meant to be fixed... that it's possible doesn't mean it should be done. Also, of course the mental health and addiction professionals say this, this is the common view on things. I'm speaking of a different view altogether. You'd have to be more specific about what is not worth solving or saving. As I said in my first or second post, some people are unlucky enough to find themselves in an impossible situation in which the choice is between certain suffering and death. Terminal illness is such a situation. A soldier caught by an enemy who practices torture is such a situation. People who lose everything and cannot bear to live in poverty as the shadow of themselves could be such a situation, though you can't exclude depression from that one. Often you encounter someone who can't tolerate a situation you would find perfectly bearable. Sometimes it's just who they are, but often they have simply not had time to adapt, and you'd perhaps remember when you yourself found it hard at the beginning, and now you're glad you did it. There ARE situations such as the one you tried to describe, but I'd say that most are in fact solvable with assistance, even some of the hardest ones. | |
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Teacher!:hug:Keep in touch!
/luv Manki | |
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what happened 2 the hug
 | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: Teacher said: AnotherLoverToo said: I'm just gonna ask--enough of the hypotheticals.
Jen, is this just purely a philosophical discussion, or are you considering suicide for yourself? I'm done considering And what's your verdict? Are shutting down on this convo because it's gotten down to the nitty-gritty, Teacher? :/ Please keep talking--tell us what you're thinking. You've posted this, you also made a post in the 'Which 5 People Would You Invite to Dinner' thread about how you'd invite 4 guns and someone to pull the trigger. This is something I am taking seriously. | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: Are shutting down on this convo because it's gotten down to the nitty-gritty, Teacher? :/ Please keep talking--tell us what you're thinking. You've posted this, you also made a post in the 'Which 5 People Would You Invite to Dinner' thread about how you'd invite 4 guns and someone to pull the trigger. This is something I am taking seriously. Whoa! | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: AnotherLoverToo said: Teacher said: AnotherLoverToo said: I'm just gonna ask--enough of the hypotheticals.
Jen, is this just purely a philosophical discussion, or are you considering suicide for yourself? I'm done considering And what's your verdict? Are shutting down on this convo because it's gotten down to the nitty-gritty, Teacher? :/ Please keep talking--tell us what you're thinking. You've posted this, you also made a post in the 'Which 5 People Would You Invite to Dinner' thread about how you'd invite 4 guns and someone to pull the trigger. This is something I am taking seriously. I can't be sitting around the computer watching the GD all night ALT, then I'd be looking like 
The verdict is still in the envelope, but since I'm the judge and the jury I know what it is  :Evillol: | |
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all I know is this thread makes me wanna shoot myself, my damn self  "Climb in my fur." | |
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rdhull said: all I know is this thread makes me wanna shoot myself, my damn self
Well u can't, u say too many brilliant things on this site!! 
So forget it!  | |
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Teacher said: rdhull said: all I know is this thread makes me wanna shoot myself, my damn self
Well u can't, u say too many brilliant things on this site!!
So forget it! If that was a deciding factor I'd be dead a long time ago.  | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: AnotherLoverToo said: Teacher said: AnotherLoverToo said: I'm just gonna ask--enough of the hypotheticals.
Jen, is this just purely a philosophical discussion, or are you considering suicide for yourself? I'm done considering And what's your verdict? Are shutting down on this convo because it's gotten down to the nitty-gritty, Teacher? :/ Please keep talking--tell us what you're thinking. You've posted this, you also made a post in the 'Which 5 People Would You Invite to Dinner' thread about how you'd invite 4 guns and someone to pull the trigger. This is something I am taking seriously. Dont worry..Teacher is fine..if she was contemplating suicide she sure as hell wouddn't be posting about it here...and if she was, the org is not going to make any difference one way or another in the long run. I dont have 1000's of studies to back me up though but ... [This message was edited Sat Jan 10 15:03:37 PST 2004 by rdhull] "Climb in my fur." | |
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sinisterpentatonic said: Teacher said: rdhull said: all I know is this thread makes me wanna shoot myself, my damn self
Well u can't, u say too many brilliant things on this site!!
So forget it! If that was a deciding factor I'd be dead a long time ago. Yeah, but Ian quit. | |
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Teacher said: sinisterpentatonic said: Teacher said: rdhull said: all I know is this thread makes me wanna shoot myself, my damn self
Well u can't, u say too many brilliant things on this site!!
So forget it! If that was a deciding factor I'd be dead a long time ago. Yeah, but Ian quit. LOL, I always had an erie feeling that he was on plane to come and deactivate me in real life.  | |
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sinisterpentatonic said: Teacher said: sinisterpentatonic said: Teacher said: rdhull said: all I know is this thread makes me wanna shoot myself, my damn self
Well u can't, u say too many brilliant things on this site!!
So forget it! If that was a deciding factor I'd be dead a long time ago. Yeah, but Ian quit. LOL, I always had an erie feeling that he was on plane to come and deactivate me in real life. U too?  | |
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Interesting topic…
First, this conversation has raged for literally millennia with no hard-and-fast consensus, so while we can massage it further, we should know from the onset that we aren’t going to reconcile anything. Ultimately, Jen, “whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or, by opposing, end them” is still a profoundly, necessarily personal choice. That said, let’s not bullshit about the matter… On issue one: Suicide is deeply, pristinely selfish. No one – not even yourself -- can make you feel better by convincing you it’s not. Whether we believe selfishness is a “good” or “bad” thing is an entirely separate matter. We can rationalize all day long about who owes whom more consideration, but unless you live alone on an island, having gained zero loved ones, in the end our decision boils down to, “Which is more of a priority to me – ending my pain, or sparing those left behind the legacy of my suicide?” There’s just no way around it. Consider, however, there are buffers – possibly even cures and/or solutions -- to your cause of pain. Those things don’t exist for loved ones of those who’ve offed themselves. On issue two: Who can really say what is courageous or cowardly? Could anything be more subjective? In certain Japanese subcultures, ending one’s life after falling to dishonor is actually seen as noble. On the other hand, even in a society like that (and I actually think their position is philosophically progressive), I don’t think hurling one’s self into the deep, dark unknown to escape the devil you do know is looked at as particularly virtuous… or even logical. I was diagnosed as Bipolar II a couple years back and as recently as last Febraury I’ve found myself more than once on the business end of a loaded Taurus .357 magnum. I’d written about 50 goodbye notes, made appropriate bank transfers of my money, had completed all outstanding job assignments, left instructions on where I wanted my 2-year-old to be educated, who to talk to and ideas on financing it, even left identification instructions to the police to minimize the hard work and trauma to them and my loved ones. I don’t buy that all suicidal people are mentally ill, but I can say that depression is insidious, sometimes extremely subtle, often coupled with a high enough intelligence to intellectualize one’s way out of admitting it and very often triggered by real situations. So even if you think you’re driven to suicide by the sheer weight of your problems, it’s wholly possible that those problems – as huge as they may be -- are manageable, but you can’t see it because some illness prevents your clarity or stifles your energy to deal with them. The fact of the matter is, you make your own decision, Jen. Certainly a bunch of faceless names on a website can’t convince you of anything either way. But I will say this: Suicide is easy as fuck. Looking around my living room right now, I see atleast eight easy ways I could be dead as a mackerel before you even respond to this post. The very fact that you and I are still around only discussing suicide, communicating among people who care something about us, means that something deep inside us questions the efficacy of the choice. I think it’s perhaps smartest to ponder that indecision a bit longer before doing something rife with such unanswered questions. As you said yourself: "That it's possible doesn't mean it should be done." Your ass definitely won’t have a chance to press “reset” later. Good luck, Jen. You have my e-mail. [This message was edited Sat Jan 10 23:56:02 PST 2004 by Lammastide] Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” | |
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Lammastide said: Interesting topic…
First, this conversation has raged for literally millennia with no hard-and-fast consensus, so while we can massage it further, we should know from the onset that we aren’t going to reconcile anything. Ultimately, Jen, “whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or, by opposing, end them” is a profoundly, necessarily personal choice. That said, let’s not bullshit about the matter… On issue one: Suicide is deeply, pristinely selfish. No one – not even yourself -- can make you feel better by convincing you it’s not. Whether we believe selfishness is a “good” or “bad” thing is an entirely separate matter. We can rationalize all day long about who owes whom more consideration, but unless you live alone on an island, having gained zero loved ones, in the end our decision boils down to, “Which is more of a priority to me – ending my pain, or sparing those left behind the legacy of my suicide?” There’s just no way around it. Consider, however, there are buffers – possibly even cures and/or solutions -- to your cause of pain. Those things don’t exist for loved ones of those who’ve offed themselves. On issue two: Who can really say what is courageous or cowardly? Could anything be more subjective? In certain Japanese subcultures, ending one’s life after falling to dishonor is actually seen as noble. On the other hand, even in a society like that (and I actually think their position is philosophically progressive), I don’t think hurling one’s self into the deep, dark unknown to escape the devil you do know is looked at as particularly virtuous… or even logical. I was diagnosed as Bipolar II a couple years back and as recently as last Febraury I’ve found myself more than once on the business end of a loaded Taurus .357 magnum. I’d written about 50 goodbye notes, made appropriate bank transfers of my money, had completed all outstanding job assignments, left instructions on where I wanted my 2-year-old to be educated, who to talk to and ideas on financing it, even left identification instructions to the police to minimize the hard work and trauma to them and my loved ones. I don’t buy that all suicidal people are mentally ill, but I can say that depression is insidious, sometimes extremely subtle, often coupled with a high enough intelligence to intellectualize one’s way out of admitting it and very often triggered by real situations. So even if you think you’re driven to suicide by the sheer weight of your problems, it’s wholly possible that those problems – as huge as they may be -- are manageable, but you can’t see it because some illness prevents your clarity or stifles your energy to deal with them. The fact of the matter is, you make your own decision, Jen. Certainly a bunch of faceless names on a website can’t convince you of anything either way. But I will say this: Suicide is easy as fuck. Looking around my living room right now, I see atleast eight easy ways I could be dead as a mackerel before you even respond to this post. The very fact that you and I are still around only discussing suicide, communicating among people who care something about us, means that something deep inside us questions the efficacy of the choice. I think it’s perhaps smartest to ponder that indecision a bit longer before doing something rife with such unanswered questions. Your ass definitely won’t have a chance to press “reset” later. Good luck, Jen. You have my e-mail. This has already been discussed at length...we are all havin fun now...thanks. "Climb in my fur." | |
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rdhull said: AnotherLoverToo said: AnotherLoverToo said: Teacher said: AnotherLoverToo said: I'm just gonna ask--enough of the hypotheticals.
Jen, is this just purely a philosophical discussion, or are you considering suicide for yourself? I'm done considering And what's your verdict? Are shutting down on this convo because it's gotten down to the nitty-gritty, Teacher? :/ Please keep talking--tell us what you're thinking. You've posted this, you also made a post in the 'Which 5 People Would You Invite to Dinner' thread about how you'd invite 4 guns and someone to pull the trigger. This is something I am taking seriously. Dont worry..Teacher is fine..if she was contemplating suicide she sure as hell wouddn't be posting about it here...and if she was, the org is not going to make any difference one way or another in the long run. I dont have 1000's of studies to back me up though but ... [This message was edited Sat Jan 10 15:03:37 PST 2004 by rdhull] Well I do.
Don't worry... if I thought Teacher was about to slash her wrists, I wouldn't be getting out the textbooks and I would know better than to play Suicide Hotline 101 on the Org. | |
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| Teacher | |
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Aerogram said: rdhull said: AnotherLoverToo said: AnotherLoverToo said: Teacher said: AnotherLoverToo said: I'm just gonna ask--enough of the hypotheticals.
Jen, is this just purely a philosophical discussion, or are you considering suicide for yourself? I'm done considering And what's your verdict? Are shutting down on this convo because it's gotten down to the nitty-gritty, Teacher? :/ Please keep talking--tell us what you're thinking. You've posted this, you also made a post in the 'Which 5 People Would You Invite to Dinner' thread about how you'd invite 4 guns and someone to pull the trigger. This is something I am taking seriously. Dont worry..Teacher is fine..if she was contemplating suicide she sure as hell wouddn't be posting about it here...and if she was, the org is not going to make any difference one way or another in the long run. I dont have 1000's of studies to back me up though but ... [This message was edited Sat Jan 10 15:03:37 PST 2004 by rdhull] Well I do.
Don't worry... if I thought Teacher was about to slash her wrists, I wouldn't be getting out the textbooks and I would know better than to play Suicide Hotline 101 on the Org. Thank u--because thats what it felt like on this thread..Suicide 101 "Climb in my fur." | |
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rdhull said: Aerogram said: rdhull said: AnotherLoverToo said: AnotherLoverToo said: Teacher said: AnotherLoverToo said: I'm just gonna ask--enough of the hypotheticals.
Jen, is this just purely a philosophical discussion, or are you considering suicide for yourself? I'm done considering And what's your verdict? Are shutting down on this convo because it's gotten down to the nitty-gritty, Teacher? :/ Please keep talking--tell us what you're thinking. You've posted this, you also made a post in the 'Which 5 People Would You Invite to Dinner' thread about how you'd invite 4 guns and someone to pull the trigger. This is something I am taking seriously. Dont worry..Teacher is fine..if she was contemplating suicide she sure as hell wouddn't be posting about it here...and if she was, the org is not going to make any difference one way or another in the long run. I dont have 1000's of studies to back me up though but ... [This message was edited Sat Jan 10 15:03:37 PST 2004 by rdhull] Well I do.
Don't worry... if I thought Teacher was about to slash her wrists, I wouldn't be getting out the textbooks and I would know better than to play Suicide Hotline 101 on the Org. Thank u--because thats what it felt like on this thread..Suicide 101 Much too heavy for this forum but I've seen too much of this stuff not to treat the topic seriously. Maybe now you can Harold and Maude the thread? Much obliged. | |
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Aerogram said: rdhull said: Aerogram said: rdhull said: AnotherLoverToo said: AnotherLoverToo said: Teacher said: AnotherLoverToo said: I'm just gonna ask--enough of the hypotheticals.
Jen, is this just purely a philosophical discussion, or are you considering suicide for yourself? I'm done considering And what's your verdict? Are shutting down on this convo because it's gotten down to the nitty-gritty, Teacher? :/ Please keep talking--tell us what you're thinking. You've posted this, you also made a post in the 'Which 5 People Would You Invite to Dinner' thread about how you'd invite 4 guns and someone to pull the trigger. This is something I am taking seriously. Dont worry..Teacher is fine..if she was contemplating suicide she sure as hell wouddn't be posting about it here...and if she was, the org is not going to make any difference one way or another in the long run. I dont have 1000's of studies to back me up though but ... [This message was edited Sat Jan 10 15:03:37 PST 2004 by rdhull] Well I do.
Don't worry... if I thought Teacher was about to slash her wrists, I wouldn't be getting out the textbooks and I would know better than to play Suicide Hotline 101 on the Org. Thank u--because thats what it felt like on this thread..Suicide 101 Much too heavy for this forum but I've seen too much of this stuff not to treat the topic seriously. Maybe now you can Harold and Maude the thread? Much obliged. Ive taken the topic seriously as much as it needed..and it was not that serious imho...Harold n Mauding it may sometimes be the remedy instead of catastrophsising the subject/situation and focusing on it ya know. Sorry about my p.o.v. isn't acceptable but  "Climb in my fur." | |
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rdhull said: Aerogram said: rdhull said: Aerogram said: rdhull said: AnotherLoverToo said: AnotherLoverToo said: Teacher said: AnotherLoverToo said: I'm just gonna ask--enough of the hypotheticals.
Jen, is this just purely a philosophical discussion, or are you considering suicide for yourself? I'm done considering And what's your verdict? Are shutting down on this convo because it's gotten down to the nitty-gritty, Teacher? :/ Please keep talking--tell us what you're thinking. You've posted this, you also made a post in the 'Which 5 People Would You Invite to Dinner' thread about how you'd invite 4 guns and someone to pull the trigger. This is something I am taking seriously. Dont worry..Teacher is fine..if she was contemplating suicide she sure as hell wouddn't be posting about it here...and if she was, the org is not going to make any difference one way or another in the long run. I dont have 1000's of studies to back me up though but ... [This message was edited Sat Jan 10 15:03:37 PST 2004 by rdhull] Well I do.
Don't worry... if I thought Teacher was about to slash her wrists, I wouldn't be getting out the textbooks and I would know better than to play Suicide Hotline 101 on the Org. Thank u--because thats what it felt like on this thread..Suicide 101 Much too heavy for this forum but I've seen too much of this stuff not to treat the topic seriously. Maybe now you can Harold and Maude the thread? Much obliged. Ive taken the topic seriously as much as it needed..and it was not that serious imho...Harold n Mauding it may sometimes be the remedy instead of catastrophsising the subject/situation and focusing on it ya know. Sorry about my p.o.v. isn't acceptable but You are in luck. I am not in charge of what is acceptable.. not on Saturdays at least.  | |
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Aerogram said: rdhull said: Aerogram said: rdhull said: Aerogram said: rdhull said: AnotherLoverToo said: AnotherLoverToo said: Teacher said: AnotherLoverToo said: I'm just gonna ask--enough of the hypotheticals.
Jen, is this just purely a philosophical discussion, or are you considering suicide for yourself? I'm done considering And what's your verdict? Are shutting down on this convo because it's gotten down to the nitty-gritty, Teacher? :/ Please keep talking--tell us what you're thinking. You've posted this, you also made a post in the 'Which 5 People Would You Invite to Dinner' thread about how you'd invite 4 guns and someone to pull the trigger. This is something I am taking seriously. Dont worry..Teacher is fine..if she was contemplating suicide she sure as hell wouddn't be posting about it here...and if she was, the org is not going to make any difference one way or another in the long run. I dont have 1000's of studies to back me up though but ... [This message was edited Sat Jan 10 15:03:37 PST 2004 by rdhull] Well I do.
Don't worry... if I thought Teacher was about to slash her wrists, I wouldn't be getting out the textbooks and I would know better than to play Suicide Hotline 101 on the Org. Thank u--because thats what it felt like on this thread..Suicide 101 Much too heavy for this forum but I've seen too much of this stuff not to treat the topic seriously. Maybe now you can Harold and Maude the thread? Much obliged. Ive taken the topic seriously as much as it needed..and it was not that serious imho...Harold n Mauding it may sometimes be the remedy instead of catastrophsising the subject/situation and focusing on it ya know. Sorry about my p.o.v. isn't acceptable but You are in luck. I am not in charge of what is acceptable.. not on Saturdays at least. "Climb in my fur." | |
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rdhull said: Lammastide said: Interesting topic…
First, this conversation has raged for literally millennia with no hard-and-fast consensus, so while we can massage it further, we should know from the onset that we aren’t going to reconcile anything. Ultimately, Jen, “whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or, by opposing, end them” is a profoundly, necessarily personal choice. That said, let’s not bullshit about the matter… On issue one: Suicide is deeply, pristinely selfish. No one – not even yourself -- can make you feel better by convincing you it’s not. Whether we believe selfishness is a “good” or “bad” thing is an entirely separate matter. We can rationalize all day long about who owes whom more consideration, but unless you live alone on an island, having gained zero loved ones, in the end our decision boils down to, “Which is more of a priority to me – ending my pain, or sparing those left behind the legacy of my suicide?” There’s just no way around it. Consider, however, there are buffers – possibly even cures and/or solutions -- to your cause of pain. Those things don’t exist for loved ones of those who’ve offed themselves. On issue two: Who can really say what is courageous or cowardly? Could anything be more subjective? In certain Japanese subcultures, ending one’s life after falling to dishonor is actually seen as noble. On the other hand, even in a society like that (and I actually think their position is philosophically progressive), I don’t think hurling one’s self into the deep, dark unknown to escape the devil you do know is looked at as particularly virtuous… or even logical. I was diagnosed as Bipolar II a couple years back and as recently as last Febraury I’ve found myself more than once on the business end of a loaded Taurus .357 magnum. I’d written about 50 goodbye notes, made appropriate bank transfers of my money, had completed all outstanding job assignments, left instructions on where I wanted my 2-year-old to be educated, who to talk to and ideas on financing it, even left identification instructions to the police to minimize the hard work and trauma to them and my loved ones. I don’t buy that all suicidal people are mentally ill, but I can say that depression is insidious, sometimes extremely subtle, often coupled with a high enough intelligence to intellectualize one’s way out of admitting it and very often triggered by real situations. So even if you think you’re driven to suicide by the sheer weight of your problems, it’s wholly possible that those problems – as huge as they may be -- are manageable, but you can’t see it because some illness prevents your clarity or stifles your energy to deal with them. The fact of the matter is, you make your own decision, Jen. Certainly a bunch of faceless names on a website can’t convince you of anything either way. But I will say this: Suicide is easy as fuck. Looking around my living room right now, I see atleast eight easy ways I could be dead as a mackerel before you even respond to this post. The very fact that you and I are still around only discussing suicide, communicating among people who care something about us, means that something deep inside us questions the efficacy of the choice. I think it’s perhaps smartest to ponder that indecision a bit longer before doing something rife with such unanswered questions. Your ass definitely won’t have a chance to press “reset” later. Good luck, Jen. You have my e-mail. This has already been discussed at length...we are all havin fun now...thanks. If that's true, I'm actually glad you all thwarted anything potentially bad. Sorry for a late reply, but she did ask for our thoughts. [This message was edited Sat Jan 10 19:28:12 PST 2004 by Lammastide] Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” | |
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Lammastide said: rdhull said: Lammastide said: Interesting topic…
First, this conversation has raged for literally millennia with no hard-and-fast consensus, so while we can massage it further, we should know from the onset that we aren’t going to reconcile anything. Ultimately, Jen, “whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or, by opposing, end them” is a profoundly, necessarily personal choice. That said, let’s not bullshit about the matter… On issue one: Suicide is deeply, pristinely selfish. No one – not even yourself -- can make you feel better by convincing you it’s not. Whether we believe selfishness is a “good” or “bad” thing is an entirely separate matter. We can rationalize all day long about who owes whom more consideration, but unless you live alone on an island, having gained zero loved ones, in the end our decision boils down to, “Which is more of a priority to me – ending my pain, or sparing those left behind the legacy of my suicide?” There’s just no way around it. Consider, however, there are buffers – possibly even cures and/or solutions -- to your cause of pain. Those things don’t exist for loved ones of those who’ve offed themselves. On issue two: Who can really say what is courageous or cowardly? Could anything be more subjective? In certain Japanese subcultures, ending one’s life after falling to dishonor is actually seen as noble. On the other hand, even in a society like that (and I actually think their position is philosophically progressive), I don’t think hurling one’s self into the deep, dark unknown to escape the devil you do know is looked at as particularly virtuous… or even logical. I was diagnosed as Bipolar II a couple years back and as recently as last Febraury I’ve found myself more than once on the business end of a loaded Taurus .357 magnum. I’d written about 50 goodbye notes, made appropriate bank transfers of my money, had completed all outstanding job assignments, left instructions on where I wanted my 2-year-old to be educated, who to talk to and ideas on financing it, even left identification instructions to the police to minimize the hard work and trauma to them and my loved ones. I don’t buy that all suicidal people are mentally ill, but I can say that depression is insidious, sometimes extremely subtle, often coupled with a high enough intelligence to intellectualize one’s way out of admitting it and very often triggered by real situations. So even if you think you’re driven to suicide by the sheer weight of your problems, it’s wholly possible that those problems – as huge as they may be -- are manageable, but you can’t see it because some illness prevents your clarity or stifles your energy to deal with them. The fact of the matter is, you make your own decision, Jen. Certainly a bunch of faceless names on a website can’t convince you of anything either way. But I will say this: Suicide is easy as fuck. Looking around my living room right now, I see atleast eight easy ways I could be dead as a mackerel before you even respond to this post. The very fact that you and I are still around only discussing suicide, communicating among people who care something about us, means that something deep inside us questions the efficacy of the choice. I think it’s perhaps smartest to ponder that indecision a bit longer before doing something rife with such unanswered questions. Your ass definitely won’t have a chance to press “reset” later. Good luck, Jen. You have my e-mail. This has already been discussed at length...we are all havin fun now...thanks. If that's true, I'm actually glad you all thwarted anything potentially bad. Sorry for a late reply, but she did ask for our thoughts. [This message was edited Sat Jan 10 19:28:12 PST 2004 by Lammastide] Yeah I did ask, and thank u to those who expressed their opinions, especially to Lammastide and 'Nana.
Aero... u don't have the faintest about who I am, but I know a lot more about who u are through your posts on this thread. Lammas, I'll e-mail u. | |
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Teacher said: Decided to come back, stop lurking and ask your opinions on something I recently changed my own opinion about, the touchy topic of suicide.
Issue number 1: Most people will tell u committing suicide is very egotistical, and there's no arguing with that from where I sit. But... isn't it a person's prerogative do decide what to do with their own life? Suicide is illegal in many countries, which I find ridiculous. Possibly it's only illegal so that the police can investigate whether or not it really was suicide, but I've heard some absurd stories about people charged with attempted suicide. 
Also, it's often argued that the person thinking of committing suicide should consider the feelings of close ones, but shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't the close ones consider and respect the suicidée's (is that a word?) wishes to end his or her own life, hard as it may be? I have one reservation to this, and that is if u are a parent. To me, if u have the responsibility of another human being who didn't choose to be there, then u need to take care of that before u consider your own feelings. Issue number 2: It seems to be a common feeling that suicide is cowardly, a way of running away from your problems. I thought so too, until very recently. Now I instead feel that there is no braver thing, to face that realisation in your life, that u really want to die. There ARE problems that are monumental and in no way your fault, and if u decide that there is no other way of overcoming these problems than taking your life, so be it. That was my points and feelings on it, can I please have yours? We missed you. ..How sad that you feel it is a brave thing. Would you tell your students that?  it's basically about getting to a point in your life where you deny yourself the opportunity to look in the mirror, and get help or...let someone else in on your dilemma.
It takes more guts to ask for help, surrender a bit, and believe in SOMETHING besides yourself,instead of just taking the easy way out because you can't help yourself..what a cop out that truly is, and very unnessesary, really.And guess what? Yeah, people will feel sorry for ya and mourn for a bit,but life goes on...with or without you. And in some ways your shitty, depressed self "wins"..screw the pseudo-intellectual crap. Life is good..if you want it bad enough!! | |
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SensualMelody said: I agree in so many ways with Aerogram.
I am presently in touch with someone who is really wanting to die to escape psychological pain. Fact is though, some days the person feels good, and is happy he is alive. Then...boom...spiraling back down to the depths of dsepair. He is once again suicidal. His pain is unbearable he says. The darkness is too dark. The burdens too heavy. He prays to not wake up. The diagnosis: Bi-polar mood disorder. Is there help? Yes...but no cure. Should he end his life? I don't think so. Why not? Because so many who have been in the same space have been helped ...with medication and theraphy. And for others, time had produced changes. Some have entered long periods of remission where life has been good for themselves and those who love them. I must admit that when this one is in the throes of despair, death does seem a reasonable solution. They can almost tates the freedom of never having to feel the pain again. I really feel for those who suffer such deep mental (or physical) distress, that they just want out. But I keep hoping and praying that somehow they will find a different solution that will bring them peace. Death will come in its own time.  MelodyCo-Sign.  | |
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My brother called me up once, to tell me he was going to do it. I tried to talk him out of it, but he explained he just wanted 2 and wanted 2 say goodbye to me b4 he went.
It was very hard 4 me 2 accept, but in the end i said ok, i love you, always will. Anyway he never did, thank goodness!! But my point is if he REALLY wanted 2, who am i 2 stop him?? U just cant, if someone is going 2 suicide it is their choice, selfish or not. | |
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