That choice is an illusion created by those in power and that we are here to do only what we are meant to do. In other words Life is destiny, there is no choice.
Sometimes i really feel like this is true.

This is the message I get from the Matrix:

"You have just forfeited 8 dollars to the Matrix. Thank you, come again."

2the9s said:

Hah ha. I paid $15.00 because i saw it on a imax screen :LOL: You know what?

CtheUncanny said:

Damn 15 bucks? Wanna buy a blue pill?

CtheUncanny said:

That is basically it.

The fact is that you really cant choose not to work, not to conform to society's norms etc. You cant opt out. Television/media etc drills into us what we are supposed to purchase, wear, eat etc.

Mike Moore touches on a lot of this stuff with his work.

bkw said:

Do you mean Mandy Moore?

2the9s said:

Yeah, sure

2the9s said:

Everything happens for a reason, sometimes they're bad and sometimes they can be a blessing, we dont know why they happen but apparently the man above wants to test our strength. Life can and always will be mysterious.

's to you. Hmmm... as for what you just mentioned, I believe you just may be onto something.

I am a profound believer in "the power of choice", given it is a choice of conscience, like... I choose to answer your thread. But then, perhaps... it is more like this...

I have been sitting here for hours, researching material and trying my damn best to start this damn 14 page paper (trying to format it in APA), yet my eyes are sooo heavy. So, I decide to lay down... fall asleep, my sister calls (which is odd), she is usually in bed by now, yet she is still on the road... on her way home.

Ok, before reading this thread... I thought (please believe me, I do think ), I thought, her phonecall literally woke me up, I got up out of bed and I am now proceeding in this damn paper. (Is it, that all happens for a reason?) On the other flipside, I could still be asleep... wake in the morning, curse myself for falling asleep in the first place and I get this paper done by miracles work. So, my friend... it brought be back here to this computer and papers spread in every direction... and to here as well. Where I sent a few heartfelt thoughts to Paisley and now to you... to say, you just might be on to something. Perhaps choice is truly just an illusion that proceeds the true acts of fate... a sense of a predestined plan.

I truly do believe in "fate", that in many instances... our lives are layed before us and in reality our choices are not free choice after all. Kinda brings a sense of vunerability to our souls awareness... what the heck is our purpose and where will our life (soul) reside in unknown time?

I'm thinking... (great, now I really can't focus on this damn paper...)
(Don't mind me... , what do I know anyways)

By the way... all this in between you and I.

Freespirit said:

Hey you
To add to that i also feel that if you make a decision that doesn't fit you destiny, you will be faced with that same decision over and over till you make the right one. So you would have choice to be wrong until you got it right.

CtheUncanny said:

The message I get from the Matrix is that filmmakers care more about special effects than a good story. The money is the ONLY thing they care about.

The message I got from the Matrix:

We had a good idea to go on, but once we started we kind of
chickened out and decided to close the whole thing with the
Messiah reference and even instill that nice crucifix light
in there. We opted for a bewildered general public and for
satisfied multinational suits. Secretly we envisioned quite
a different climax. Perhaps we'll turn that into another 3
part story and sell it independently on dvd, this time we
will call it "Matrix Revisited: Truth and Lies within the
confines of the Virtual Mind".

Not exactly, the true message of the Matrix is the opposite.

Deus Ex Machina... That's all...

Neversin.

IstenSzek said:

I don´t think they chickened out. I think they simply didn´t have the intellectual/creative ability to tie up all the loose ends. They probably didn´t even realise the implicit depth and complexity of many of their own plot points.

There were also lots of examples of plain bad screenwriting in Revolutions. Main characters got lost in the story, others were introduced without explanation, there were subplots without relevance, etc. Too bad, because I loved the first movie and thought the second one was surprisingly good.

And who told you those messages you've taken away from
the Matrix?... Agent Smith?... The Merovingian?
just because they're the most vocal and articulate, doesn't
necessarily make them right.

The future belongs to those that see beyond 'purpose' and
'fate'. "Temet Nosce".

BorisFishpaw said:

It's just a movie :LOL: I see where you are coming from too.
I just feel sometimes that real life seems predestined.
If you believe in the bible, then how can you say things are not predestined. In the end of the Matrix Neo and Smith did what they were supposed to do. Each time Neo made the wrong choice, the Matrix would reset itself by making a new version. Just a thought

bkw said:

I totally disagree.

You have a choice to opt out.

But it is what that means. It is not just about the physical things that will be different. It is about the mental addictions that your mind is accustomed to.

You do have a choice.

I think that believing in predestination sometimes makes it too easy to give up and not try, and to be a "victim" in life.

For example, I have a 15 yr old client who is pregnant (the father of the baby is 25 yrs old) and she continues to smoke weed during her pregnancy. I was talking to her about the negative health effects for the baby of smoking weed, and that sometimes the learning disabilities don't show up until later, and her response to that was that she thinks "babies born with handicaps were meant to be that way, that's what God decided". Basically, she was saying that if the weed makes her baby ADHD, that's cause God decided it would be so.

I told her, "no, I don't think God wants moms to smoke pot or inject heroin so that babies can be born with disabilities. I think that's all about what WE decide to do"

Just one example...
[This message was edited Fri Dec 5 19:05:11 PST 2003 by AnotherLoverToo]

Also: we've had several situations involving Muslim women who are trying to deliver a baby vaginally, but the baby's heartbeat/vital statistics get bad or the mother's losing too much blood, so the doctor wants to do a C-Section. But the husbands (and sometimes the women themselves) won't allow it, they say it's "the will of Allah" that she or the baby dies. We had 2 Muslim husbands a few months ago who were screaming at each other in the labor and delivery waiting room, one of them let the doctors do an emergency C-section on his wife/child and he was yelling at the other one, who wasn't giving the docs permission for his wife.

Another example of humans deciding that "fate" is in control.

I personally think much of life is a combination of serendipity and choices--a life lesson is to be had with any choice that is made. And NOT making a choice is a choice, too, I believe....
[This message was edited Fri Dec 5 19:06:56 PST 2003 by AnotherLoverToo]

EvilWhiteMale said:

Funny but i get the feeling that is why most movies are made for the big screen. otherwise they would make it for tv. Of course it is about money?. After seeing two, i bet you went to the theater and saw revolutions as soon as it came out. You hypocrite :LOL:

well, all i can really say about this movie is i loved those little hobbits and their hairy little feet. now THAT'S a genius touch

CtheUncanny said:

Sorry, I didn't articulate what I was trying to say very well there.

The Wachowski brothers created some very interesting movies
in the Matrix trilogy, and a lot of it is actually designed to be
picked apart and examined. In fact they were so obsessed with
ensuring that every reference and subtext was in place and
that the 'substance' was there, that I think it had a detrimental
effect on the 'surface story'.

What I meant to say earlier was that, in the context of the
movies, it is Agent Smith and The Merovingian (the 'bad guys')
who talk about fatalism and purpose (Agent Smith: "...because
without purpose we would not exist". The Merovingian: "there
is only one universal truth... causality"). So the filmakers have
given their 'bad guys' this point of view. The idea that everything
is predetermined is again expounded upon again by The
Architect's revelation that there have been 5 previous
(successful) versions of The Matrix, and that this will be the 6th
time he's been though all this.

On the other hand the 'good guys' fight against these concepts.
They believe in freedom of choice, or should I say 'freedom'
and 'choice'. The only problem is of course that a lot of the
dialogue relating to this viewpoint is not exactly easy to follow.
The Oracle's agenda is to break the cycle, and to preserve the
next stage in machine evolution... Sati (the little girl). She is the
first program to be created without 'purpose', she simply 'is'.
Just like a human, she has no predetermined destiny or fate,
other than what she determins for herself... and that's what
the message of The Matrix is all about.

The message I get is "Kill your mother, kill your social workers, kill everyone on the bus."