Piggybacking on what sosgemini said, I'm sure the "community's" personality varies from place to place.

Here in Cleveland, racism among homosexuals is somewhat of a given -- Cleveland for years has ranked among the top 10 most segregated cities in American.

But far more gay interracial couples exist in areas like New Orleans, Washington D.C., New York or certain parts of the West Coast.
[This message was edited Mon Nov 17 9:58:34 PST 2003 by Lammastide]

NuPwrSoul said:

I suggest that the both of you continue to fight the good fight because I know through posts by the both of you, my mind has become more open and I thank both of you for it. There are people on this site who read everything you say and even though they may not acknowledge you, they do hear you. Do it for those people.

stymie said:

I agree.

AnotherLoverToo said:

Now you talkin.

rdhull said:

Many people say this a lot, but I don't agree it's the same thing.

Supernova said:

Could you elaborate?

This is an interesting topic. I think the prevalence of racism within the gay community depends alot on what locale you live in. I live in LA and work about 6 miles from West Hollywood, which is the equivalent of SFs Castro or NYCs Villiage.

Here in LA, especially West LA where West Hollywood is located, image is everything to alot of people. Here I think it's more about image than race. If you aren't wearing the fashion or have the haircut etc... I don't play into any of that and can care less what people think about my clothes, my car or how much money I make. I can honestly have a good time anywhere, be it in the self concious image driven West Hollywood or the more laid back area of Silverlake (East LA) or the Valley (North LA).

My core group of friends is all over the map from white men to granola lesbians to black and phillipino men and women. I love the diversity of people in my life.

One thing that really bothers me in the gay community is the discrimination of gay men against lesbians and vice versa. We are all in the same boat folks. I also cannot stand bias and discrimination against transgendered people. I strive always to reach out and include them as part of my family. I see gay men snickering in their little groups at transgendered and I just treat them like the person they are.

Lammastide said:

Please do...

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

You are so correct. Why in the WORLD do we do this to Lesbians and transgendered persons?

Lammastide said:

Lesbians do it too. Since some of my best friends are lesbian I party at girl bars sometimes. The vitriol with which I am greeted astounds me at times. I can be a woman's best friend and ally and just because I got a cock between my legs is reason enough to treat me like shit without even knowing me. It happens. Sad but true...

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Lesbians have generally been pretty cool with me. I have, on occassion, met trouble at the door when I've tried to go to Lesbian clubs with my cousin (who is a Lesbian). They explain they're controlling for straight men who sometimes infiltrate and cause trouble.

At 5'10", 175#, though, most Lesbians I know could take me apart in hand-to-hand.

Lammastide said:

I got you beat by a damn landslide! I'm 5'10 and weigh 120#. Certainly not anywhere near threatening on any level. Just being bitches for bitch sake...

I think I hear what you're saying, Lamma. I moved to Columbus recently and my Aunt (who happens to be a lesbian) took me to a gay club out in Dayton. The majority of the folk were African-American and Hispanic and on that floor was the hip-hop section. But they had an upstairs section with the Goths and rockers and they were mostly white (and sexually intergrated too). Is that a form of segregation or am I just babbling on?

NWF said:

I dunno. That could just be musical tastes right there. Still, it's cool to see everyone party together from time to time.

Supernova said:

I actually agree with you, but will have to come back to this to explain later.

NuPwrSoul said:

Yeah me too--I feel with that statement I may have generalized racism excluding the various differences in racism that one recieves etc etc..depending on what group you are in..in other words, I odnt fel that discrimination against gays is equal to the discrimination against blacks, etc etc or vice versa or what have you..I meant to say one could put any label or group into a blank and folks could point and say "that aint mine!" if they aren't of that group...and thats still not to say that anyone elses racism experience is more or less severe than anothers..but in some cases it is. But I won't or can't get into that right now.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I thought Prince brought peace to the MPLS mean streets.
You mean it's not like Grafitti Bridge?

rdhull said:

Pretty much similar to what I was gonna elaborate, but you're right... that's a different topic.

And to get back to the topic... I'd like to pose a related question that I feel was implied by your initial post: What explains the phenomenon of many of the white members of the gay community embracing conservative (often reactionary) politics, often turning a blind eye to the aspect of that politics which marginalizes other "minorities"?

Very few people have really seemed to want to engage this. And that is something that I find most fascinating. "Gay Republican" seems even more of an oxymoron than "Black Republican." And having witnessed quite a few discussions in the P&R forum, I have been at times quite shocked to see some of the ORG's gay members embraced conservative politics, including those which have negative implications for other minority groups.

Of course, I do believe that it is an attempt to retain/regain favor with the very repressive forces that would otherwise marginalize them too (the whole price of the ticket). I have seen no one post here addressing that phenom.

back on topic edit.
[This message was edited Mon Nov 17 15:48:03 PST 2003 by NuPwrSoul]

NuPwrSoul said:

I think it may be an atrempt to retain-regain favor with froces that would have them marginalized but not only that..I think it may be that they actually have the same polarized/racist views of those who make the initial posts..and no...my query of that portion has not been addressed as of yet.

errr..well someone honestly addressed it at least
[This message was edited Mon Nov 17 15:54:13 PST 2003 by rdhull]

(crickets chirp)







Well I guess you and me, as two straight black men, can sit here and talk about it all we want.
.
[This message was edited Mon Nov 17 15:54:49 PST 2003 by NuPwrSoul]

NuPwrSoul said:

So, RD tell me what YOU think...

Well NPS, see this is the issue...

Really, I always wondered why...

Funny you should ask because I have the same question...

emoticon edit.
[This message was edited Mon Nov 17 16:06:56 PST 2003 by NuPwrSoul]

One thing Nu--is it hasnt as yet made me jaded..when it does, I know it's all for naught..that the world is truly fucked up. The day I say "who cares about so and so..they dont care about me" will be when I truly have lost it all. I dont think Im there and I hope I never get there. But it is disheartenening and disappointing when I see it..how and why I keep my head up and try to still make folks se that hate etc is wrong I do not know...maybe it is something that inspires me that keeps me going at times or gives me some purpose..others have art, music etc..this is my thing I guess.
[This message was edited Mon Nov 17 16:02:23 PST 2003 by rdhull]

NuPwrSoul said:

I don't quite have the time to find the link but I actually created a whole thread on this very subject. The gay people who align themselves with the Republican party are usually straight guys who like to suck dick. In otherwords, they pass as straight in every day life. If they had to face the same adversity of those who are clearly identifiably gay, they'd sing a different tune.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I dont think that is what Nu meant.

I think its... lets say just for an example...if you Super, aligning with or willing to suck the dick of someone who's white and a racist against blacks for example
[This message was edited Mon Nov 17 16:05:30 PST 2003 by rdhull]

NuPwrSoul said:

I disagree with all three of you.

While the entire gay community does not face the same issues as the black race has, or still does, the issue of racism is quite similar to homophobia. Straight acting/looking men and women don't face the same kind of treatment as someone of color who cannot hide the fact they are black. But there are some of us who cannot hide the fact we are gay. I'm not talking about stereotypical flamboyancy, rather being a very feminine male or masculine female.

I stood out like a sore thumb. And so I do understand what it's like to be discriminated against based on an identifiable characteristic. I experienced a very hard childhood because of this. I could be sitting minding my own business, not engaged with anybody, not speaking, not moving, just sitting there and still reap the wrath of some straight boy who was taught it's OK to hate little faggots.

And while anti homosexual legislation in this country cannot be compared to having to drink from separate drinking fountains or ride in the back of the bus, the fact remains that we don't have the same equal rights as other minority groups and the fact remains that in many places in the country it is legal to discriminate based on sexual orientation whereas it's not legal based on gender, race, disability etc... And as was the case in Colorado, new laws are drafted to insure that we don't have equal rights as far as discrimination is concerned.

Many black people seem to become very angry at the comparison and I think there is some legitimacy in comparing the struggles of both "minority" groups to be free from being hated and persecuted for nothing more than the way you were born.

rdhull said:

When he said "embracing" I took that to mean that they are registered Republicans and vote that way. It makes no damn sense for anyone who is gay to be a Republican. They'll take your vote and bury you face down the next instant.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

but by compairing the two i think you automatically equal the pain and struggles that both groups have endured...

thats why i think its better to not even get involved in the compare game...


its more about past atrocities...not the current political climate...

btw: im not speaking towards your specific comments...just in responce to the general debate..

sosgemini said:

I didn't equate them as equal. I cited as much. I'm just giving you examples of why people make the comparison in the first place...

And the current political climate is not new Societal, govermental and religious rejection and persecution of homosexuals goes back farther than US slavery itself....
.
[This message was edited Mon Nov 17 16:31:01 PST 2003 by SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

i know...thats why i made that end disclaimer..i was just explaining why i as an black male cant relate to people making that statement...


sorta like how a lot of jewish people get all bent out of shape when other religous groups consider their prosecution similiar...