If I was robbed by a black man I would know that I was robbed by a theif, not that all black men are theifs. If this happened 30 40 50 times I would feel the same way.

If one of the women working for me screws up her job I would not feel all women are idiots. Etc...

Yet so often women who have been wronged by men will say they don't trust men in general anymore.

what are your thoughts or reasons for this?

I am not trying to antagonise anyone, I'm just curious

I don't like the examples you quote but I will try to give an honest answer.

I personally don't have any problems with trusting men.

Men and women are different and I think that problems arise between the two when we don't appreciate or understand what these differences are.

Men seem to find it easier to have sex without emotional ties than women. Men also like to look at women whereas most women I know would prefer good conversation with the man of her choice (unless hot sex is on the cards!)

Some women therefore don't feel they can trust men as it seems easy for men to be distracted by other women.

... I think

ahhh...great question...

lets see...after you have been lied to...cheated on...and abused by more than one man...you learn to be more careful...

since you used the 'black robber' idea...i will go with that one...

when you are traveling in an area where there is a lot of crime...say...the inner city areas...do you lock your door when a certain person approaches your automobile...or do you keep your doors locked at all times as not to be the latest victim ?

see...the thing is...a man will hurt you ...quickly if you let him...i didnt start it...but im damn sure living proof that it can happen !! i dont judge each man on the others actions...but after you have been down that road a time or two...it does start to sink in that you may have to be a bit more careful

i would love to believe that all people are as open and honest as i am...however...this is just not the case

ask bluesbaby...i am still pretty open to a lot of things that maybe i shouldnt be...shes always tellin me to be more careful...guess i havent learned it all yet huh ?

thanks for your thought provoking thread...

My problem is never a race, gender, religious, etc. thing.

It's people. You think you know them or something about them, and then they show you who they are.

I think in the case of women, alot of them base their overall distrust on their situation and the experiences of other women they know.

For example: One of my sister was talking to her friends about her guy and all of a sudden they all have these horror stories which lead to "I hate MEN".

I had to ask her, is it because of your recent experience or because of that AND what your friends were saying to you?

She freely admitted that it was both, which undoubtedly is unfair to men but I guess if you were in that room and heard some of what I heard you maybe able to understand why it seems to fall that way.

I don't condone hatred of any kind and I don't believe their right in making a blanket statement like that, but I understand that her statement was purely emotional and not rational.

I said to her the next time one of us does you wrong why don't you think on HIS actions and feel a way about him instead of putting it out there that you hate men, it's obvious to me you don't actually hate men, you hate what he did to you. Of course this brings reaction from the whole room, but I can handle mine, so no biggie.

After everyone calmed down she told me I was right. (Of Course).

P.S.- she back with same dirtbag, so she can't really hate men.

this is by no means a race issue...btw...

it is all to do with people...only people...nothing else...

Good question. I think the answers above are good, so I won't repeat the same thing..but I will say that it drives me nuts when I get email jokes that just totally dis women or men 'why a cucumber is better than a man', or 'why a beer is better than a woman'. Sure, I have been hurt by men, but big deal, we all get hurt, we all make choices, we recover. We hopefully learn. Not all groups of anyone are pigs, sluts, dumb, etc. We are individuals...

well,
i dont have a trust problem "with men", i have a trust problem "WITH PEOPLE"...and my reasons for that is because of experience being the teacher, ill have to say when it comes to trust "issues", i treat men and women equally_ i start off not trusting them until they prove me different! then whatever...

i thought about this question again last night...and i am going to make a serious effort to not judge men on what others have done in the past thanks again...

sorry everyone I guess I started this and left it hanging after what was going on with my son

maybe I'll try to pick it up tomorrow

I think your reasoning is false. I think men are just as judgmental as women in that aspect. If a woman fucks up at her job more often than not men will blame it on their gender. Same with drivers - when someone is driving like shit, how often does a man assume the driver is female? (it's even worse when they assume they are an Asian female! )

Well, first of all, I question your assumption that you would not judge people of a certain race based upon "30, 40, 50 times" of negative experiences with members of that race. If it only happened once or twice, then I could believe that. But when the same thing keeps happening over and over again, the brain begins to change its patterns of thinking/responding. I don't think you would consciously think to yourself "all black men are thieves" after it had happened 10-20 times, but I think that subconsciously, your mind and body would develop protective instincts and begin to respond in certain self-defensive mannerisms. It's biology, the "fight or flight" instinct, where we learn to identify potential threat based upon our experiences. There's no value judgments there, no racism, it's the mind telling itself, "someone who looked/behaved/spoke very similarly to this person hurt me in the past" and evoking anxiety.

Let's reverse the situation, and let's say a person of color has experienced violence or overt racism from white people time and time again. They may be able to rationally tell themselves that not all white people are racist Klan members, but as a result of trauma, they will develop subtle protective instincts that allow them to "feel out" that white person. And it makes a lot of sense to do so. There are studies that have been done on being a minority and the extra stress involved in "normal" everyday interactions.

Anyone who experiences emotional or physical trauma is prone to be extra careful in similar circumstances. It does help to talk yourself through situations, to remind yourself that not all people who look a certain way behave in a certain way. I think the most helpful thing to do is to take a look at our own behaviors and what we personally are doing to draw this hurtful type of person to ourselves when we find ourselves repeatedly traumatized. (No, not 'blaming the victim', but just being smarter about our own tendencies of putting ourselves in danger)

There are some types of men that women do need to be extra careful around--it would be silly not to, given crime statistics, etc. AND there are certain types of women that men need to be careful with. It's all about perspective and self-insight, I believe.

Carrie... well put, as always. Your eloquent ass always shows me up!

Natsume said:

Oh, HUSH YO MOUF, girl! I just happened to feel like putting effort into this particular thread.

AnotherLoverToo said:

lol it badly needed your effort... my problem is that I never have the motivation to even try in this place, ehehe

Natsume said:

Typical Asian woman.

bkw said:

Wait, wouldn't that be the WHITE woman side of me, the lazy sacks of shit that we are? Asians have the stereotype of being perfectionists and over-achievers! Get your racist remarks STRAIGHT, bkw!


[This message was edited Sat Nov 1 17:33:18 PST 2003 by Natsume]

bkw said:

The thing is, I think that what paintsprayer is talking about is really much more about reactions to trauma than it is about gender or race issues. Sure, men and women are very different and often stereotype each other, but trying to compare that to a white man being mugged by a black man 30-50 times is a little off base. I mean, I get the point, but...you know what I mean.

Natsume said:

You schooling me now Nat?



It's the lazy white trash side coming out then. he he

bkw said:

Did someone say lazy white trash? Shouldn't 2the9s be all over this thread like flies on shit?

Well speaking as a lady myself, men simply aren't to be trusted.

Except for charming Irish men of course.

However if some dodgy aussie like bkw buys you a beer, run for the exit!

ian said:

Natsume said:

9s is lazy white trash in a K-Mart suit!

Natsume said:

That British food is giving you some major gas, girly! That avatar, that signature! Are they the silent-but-deadly types, perchance?

im sorry...but i fail to see the humor in your posts

Natsume said:

Fart? Pah!
I see being in England hasn't improved your vocabulary yet!

justkelley said:

What exactly is it you don't find funny, kelley? Do you think the humor is racist?

Sometimes we joke about men like men joke on about women, but each person is an individual, and even though if I have been hurt I have said it in the past, I do not catagorise men in the same way just cos i have been hurt. They are all different and it would not be fair to blame a man on the mistakes a past b/f has done. Em, do you get what I mean?

I was mugged by AnotherLoverToo So I'm now avoiding all white females everywhere - they are all plotting something, I'm sure of it!

AnotherLoverToo said:

I have learned from the very best - Lleena!

ian said:

I never had a problem with Irish men, but cos ian deactivated me hundreds of times, I dont like them anymore