Before the mafia puts a hit on me, I'm one of you.
With that being said, I have issues that I need to resolve.

I'm 30 years old. I live in NYC. I don't have or want any gay male friends. People tell me that it's self hating. But I don't identify with "the community". I have one lesbian friend. She's good people. Maybe I've just come across all the sterotypes.

I have a partner and he seems to like the idea and wonders how I've become so detached from it all. I don't mind his friends but I wouldn't have chosen them as friends for myself.

I'm probably rambling on but lately it's been on my mind as to why I'm like this.

Maybe it's because of the Chelsea gay community that I'm sickened by it. Maybe it's the gays are portrayed in the media. I think it's my own homophobia. But I don't live a closeted life.


Am I alone in this? I don't see it as a problem...but I think it's something that I need to address. Where are the org psychologists?


:PIMP:

pimpdoutt said:

Before I even read anyone else's responses to your post, let me just say that I hear you loud and clear, and that feeling alienated from a social scene like New York's Chelsea neighborhood doesn't have to equal "self-loathing", especially considering a lot of the people in that neighborhood suffer from some pretty dysfunctional, self-loathing behaviors themselves.

Don't let yourself fall into the trap of believing that what you see in Chelsea is all there can be to being gay, especially in a city as diverse as New York. I don't know what your interests or "scene" is, but believe me, in that city there is a gay community with niches and pockets for EVERYone. I lived there for several years, and the first time I heard The Ramones playing in an East Village bar, I knew I'd found my niche. You just have to find your spot. Keep your eyes open. Look around. Talk to folks.

A good starting place would be to check out the NYC LGBT Community Center, talk to the folks at the front desk (the friendliest people in New York), and check out some of the materials they have. You might be surprised at how much is out there.

hmmm, it's really hard to say since I don't know you well.

I'm kinna in between, I love my queer friends, but I'm not the type who could only hang out with queers. I like 'mixed' clubs, I like meeting new people, whatever sexuality.

I will say, tho, as I've grown older, it becomes MORE important to me to have a crew of close queer friends. It's just happened in the past few years...i'm not sure what it's all about. I know it tends to be easier for me to find striaght people I have things in common with. I like weird music, I hate Ambercrombie, drag queens bore me and meth disgusts me. These things seems to make it hard for me to meet gay men I can relate to...but thanks to the internet, I've linked to more queers with similar interests as mine. Maybe you just need to meet different types of queers than you are meeting in your area?

But, hey, if you're happy in your life, what you're doing must be working, so I wouldn't worry bout it!


.....edit schmedit....
[This message was edited Mon Oct 13 14:09:18 PDT 2003 by endorphin74]

http://www.prince.org/msg...msg_879306







was I wrong for asking this question, please share!!!

maybecabdriver said:

Of course not - if you're comfortable asking such a personal question in a public forum, then what would be wrong with asking that?

Tough topic!

I'm very gay, and I don't identify at all (or at the most, very little) with the "gay community" either in person or online. We seem to have completely different values and experiences and goals. Perhaps it's because I'm from and still live in a very small town, and I've not had many (if any) gay friends in my life. I've found it satisfying to make my own way and be my own person without having to identify myself as part of some subculture or activist community.

More power to the people who do strongly identify with and are a part of the gay lifestyle, from what I've seen, heard, and experienced, it's just not for me.

maybecabdriver said:

wrong? no. but it's still a stupid question. to turn it around, is there such thing as a heterosexual virgin? yes, obviously. the same applies to homosexuals.

I think it depends on why you are distancing yourself from "gay life". If your distance stems from shame in being gay, that's a problem. If your distance stems from simply not connecting to the people around you, that's OK.

I guess there really is a differenc in growing up in a small town vs a large city and there is a difference in how effeminate you are. Not effeminate as in exagerated gay stereotypes but just not being as masculine as society deems appropriate. I have no problem with those who aren't active in the gay community or those who seek to distance themselves from the political realities. I do have a problem when those people do nothing to involve themselves and then bitch about how bad things are.

It boils down to whatever makes you comfortable. Do what's good for you.

pimpdoutt said:

Im a normal gay person, dont dress gay, dont talk gay, dont act all feminine. And my partner is very manly and straight appearing. Yes in the gay community it is hard 2 find "normal" lookin and actin. It is not easy 2 have str8 friends who are fine with gay people (unless they girls or have know u a long time)

WHUT??? No Bashing???
:I::I:
slowly backs out of this thread

Pimpdout, I've found that some of the most liberating things about being gay are also the most difficult to navigate...

We have existed for thousands of years liberated from any number of social confinements: oppressive gender roles, hypocritical sexual etiquette, staunch protocols for romantic relationships, foreboding rules governing same-sex Platonic intimacies, our dress, even the way "real" men and women supposedly walk and talk. The beauty of this is that we in many ways can enjoy lives considerably more self-styled and free than many of our heterosexual counterparts... if we responsibly manage ourselves.

That being said, of course (and I got into a nasty sparring match with a therapist over this point), because there are considerably less defined models of "normalcy" for us, I believe there's perhaps more chance of reckless abandon, cyclically undermined relationships, impressionable horde behavior, a life of confusingly undefined boundaries, etc. for us. Combine that with the everyday challenges of being gay in a straight world, and it's easy to understand why a gay man or woman who doesn't "fit in" may want to separate him/herself as much as possible from anything resembling "that" lifestyle.

What we have to remember, though, is that a life well lived requires a certain breadth of perception. As different as you are from me, as I am from Supa, as he is from AaronUniversal, as he is from Paisleypark4, and so on, that's what the "gay community" is truly comprised of. We're not all the shaven, drugged up 2xist-clad Chelsea circuit trade you see every day.

We inundate every "scene," and (take it from me) there are lots of actualized, yet not flaming or hedonistic, gay men who hold precisely the same sensibilities as you do. So basically find out where you fit in, or if you don't fit anywhere, create your own scene -- if that includes only you, your partner and a close lesbian pal, so be it.

In the end, you're your own captain. Just realize there's a lot more to "us" than that very visible contingient that you (maybe justifiably) despise.
[This message was edited Tue Oct 14 7:04:20 PDT 2003 by Lammastide]

Interesting.

00769BAD said:

there's still time.



gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay ... blah blah blah

By the way, having lived as a heterosexual and partnered to a woman for my entire adult life until about two years ago, I have only a single gay male friend. All my other friends are straight. (As far as I know.)

I'd love to find other like-minded gay friends, but I don't feel particularly pressured, and perhaps neither should you, Pimpdout. Engage who you are at your own pace... nobody has a rulebook or timeline.
[This message was edited Mon Oct 13 21:44:51 PDT 2003 by Lammastide]

AaronUniversal said:

i sir am not allowed to utter such a blasphemy as that.
the closes i could get to that would be herman sesyal, without havin my account deactivated.

I view this subject as many others, when it comes to homosexuality and 'the community'.

I am a human beng that just happens to be gay; it's just a little part of what and who I am, but a very defining part. Some people might never notice I am gay until I start talking about men, which I do often, so it rarely hapens, hehehe.

Gay culture seems about copycat behaviour, something that I dislike fervently.

I would say to you; just live your life. If you do not need to be a part of gay culture; don't. Simple as that.

Lammastide said:

Exactly. My 'scene' is a circle of close friends. And the circle is expanding.

I have been very fortunate to get to know FHUNKIN. Met him just last year, but it feels like I have known him longer. And NOEPIE. I have known him for 13 years. And still mates.

It was very nice to introduce them to eachother yesterday. Hope we have more time at the concert on wednesday...

gooeythehamster said:

pimpdoutt said:

If Mohamed does not go to the mountain, the mountain will go to Mohamed...

my closest friend for many years was a gay man... he wasn't into the gay scene at all... he had some gay friends...but he really didn't get on with people who made a big deal out of being gay... they irritated him

This thread is sooo gay...



he he

Fhunkin said:

Philosophical men drive me WILD!

Lammastide said:

You just wait until I send you my latest picture !

Fhunkin said:

This AND Meshell's album on the same day!?!? I must have been a good boy!

i thank all you guys for sharing your input. i gotta say that i was braced for some attacks to come but it was great to get healthy feedback from all of you. i appreciate that.




by the way to the guy that asked if homos can be virgins:



umm, i wouldn't say you're wrong...but if you really think about it for a minute it's just a silly question.