You know, it's not that I've never in my life made a snotty comment about men, as a group or as individuals. . .it is, after all, such a cool thing to do, right? Practially required for female bonding. But. . .

I love men and don't enjoy male-bashing. The stereotype of men as lying cheating heartless bastards is so tired. Can we just let it go? The people in my life who have been the most open, honest, and caring towards me have been mostly male.

Women? Women lie, cheat, and act heartless just as often as men do. I think there is more social pressure for women to be "nice", but that just means that the lying cheating nasty women are more fake about it, which to me is even worse. I'll take the obnoxious playa over the catty backstabber any day of the week, if those are my choices.

The reality is, most people will be good and honest and kind if you will give them the space to do so, by encouraging them to be themselves and then accepting and loving whatever they show you as a result of that. Gender is not particularly relevant.

/rant

tackam said:

I agree, women can maniplute us very well.

I'm not condoning it, but it's just a backlash to the patriarchal society we live in and healthy for starting a balance.

applekisses said:

You are not condoning it - but you say it's healthy?

I TOTALLY AGREE...MAIL-BASHING IS OUT OF ORDER:

THANK YOU!!!

I have seen waaay too much sexist slamming on this site in the last two weeks, bu I thought I was the only one seeing it.

FANTASTIC thread!

And in some sense I do agree with Applekisses, it is a backlash against the patriarchal society, but the answer does not lie in starting threads called "why do men cheat?" "why do men blah blah blah" "why are men such pigfuckers?", etc.

Fight the trappings of society, but realize that not all men are represented by the few really horrendous examples.

protect your self from MAIL-BASHING:

langebleu said:

Sure, in a way it is...

applekisses said:

So, the way to make women and men equal isn't just to lift women up, it's to put men down? Disagree.

DrFrankenfurter said:

No, no. I posted on those threads, complaining about the sexism. I'm with you, DrFrankenfurter.

Cause men really don't give a phuck.

CtheUncanny said:

There's probably some truth to that, actually. But I care, and that should be good enough for everyone else!

Really it's quite SICK to Generalize like that. Not all Men are Evil not all Women are good and you know what it's Biased and Racist in a Way. It's Antiquated old Garbage thinking Really.

tackam said:

Sorry about that. I meant men in general.

I find the Org to be quite "equal opportunity" when it comes to gender bashing.

CtheUncanny said:

I was being a smartass.

Men will just always be men , it's been that way since day one. Times haven't changed much. I've seen it with my own eyes, men talk much game, as soon as a girl gets pregnant he wants 2 leave, just because he doesn't want 2 take care of a responsibilty and the girl is left with a baby 2 take care of her own, how many times as this happened? How many times do u hear about spousel abuse, a man beating on his wife, a man raping a girl, most of these crimes are done by men, I've even seen it with my own eyes,

And don't even get me started on how there's prejudice in the work force when it comes between the two sexes, it's a know fact, that even if a man and a woman have the same job, the man will get paid more just because he is a man.or if I go 2 a autoshop or car place 2 look at a car, don't try 2 tell me the sales person is going 2 try 2 cheat me just because I am a woman who may not know much about vechiles all together. It's a damn shame I have 2 bring a male with me when I go 2 these places, just because they will charge me more becuase I am a woman, now that's what I call both sexes and racist

I mean we can even look at sports 4 example, There's a NBA and There's a WNBA , it is a known fact that most players on the NBA gets paid way more a professional basketball player who just so happens 2 be a woman in a legitiment field, people don't even pay much attention 2 the WNBA just because it's women playing basketball, that's what's sexist to me

At first women had 2 sit at home, take care of the kids, make sure dinner is ready before daddy gets,not haver her own beliefs, not even dare speak up 2 her man, she basically had 2 be a doormate 2 her husband, all while he's supposedly be wearing the pants in the family, just because he works and he's a man

Women couldn't even vote or fight in the war, just because of the gender we had, "NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL SEXIST"

Don't even get me freaking started on the entertainment business and how a male dominated business mostly use women as sexual objects, in music vidoes, in movies, in advirtisment...

Basically I'm not going 2 take much of this male ego crap, just because he is a man, I think the statement "it's a man's world is so absolute, Men have always treated women like we where second class citzen from day one, we have come a long way 2 the show a man we can be just as strong or powerful as he can, for there wouldn't even be a man if it was not 4 us women, so if you want 2 talk about things being sexist, just because a few group of women on the org has experiecned pain that was cause by a man, and choose 2 express that pain in a thread or 2 does not make them racist or sexist,


As 4 me personally I know "all men aren't dogs", I just haven't found one who wasn't trying 2 use me 4 money or just trying 2 get in2 my pants, before some goes aroud calling me a racist or sexiest again think about all the things I've mention above, how long have women been deprived because of the statement "this is a man worlds?"
[This message was edited Wed Aug 20 23:58:49 PDT 2003 by DigitalLisa]

Hate to say it Lisa Sad but True. Very TRUE!

Muffy said:

I think it's on both ends really, men just get away with it more, when a woman does it,she's a bitch...
[This message was edited Thu Aug 21 0:00:19 PDT 2003 by DigitalLisa]

Well, Lisa, then the question becomes, do you want the world to stay male dominated or do you want to change that? Because saying things like you said above only reenforce the things you are complaining about. If you wants things to change, then the first thing you need to do is realize that not all men are like that, not even the majority are like that.

If you want it to change, make it change, but change is not accomplished by verbally abusing every man you can and trashing the gender at large. All that does is promote more bitterness and anger and resentment.

Especially when you attack male feminists, that is extremely counterproductive. You don't win a war by shooting your own troops.

DrFrankenfurter said:

Don't get me wrong, I love men I truly do,what can I say ? Can't live with them, Can't live without them and I know some men feel the same way about us women
[This message was edited Thu Aug 21 0:04:22 PDT 2003 by DigitalLisa]

Well, then why are you trashing them? Why are you slamming them as a whole group, saying all men? Why are you generalizing?

That's what gets you labelled a sexist.

Yeah,gotta say I love them also. I just hate their Games and Lying.

Muffy said:

And women never play games or lie?

If you want the men who act like that to stop acting like that, then stop encouraging them to day it by saying "they do this, or they all do that"

It really is a very very simple first step.

DrFrankenfurter said:

Okay lemme explain this

(thinking)


You know the saying

"One bad apple can ruin the bunch"

I guess I kind of took it 2 heart


Lemme ask u something, have u ever been in love or had ur heart broken?
[This message was edited Thu Aug 21 0:13:01 PDT 2003 by DigitalLisa]

DigitalLisa said:

Well, I am glad you see that.

Of course I have been hurt and had my heart broken. I was cheated on by a man, and it caused me to become HIV positive. My boyfriend had not only a wandering eye, but a dick to match, and now my life is going to end way too soon because of it.

But I can not hold the entire gender accountable for what one man did, because I would not only be cutting myself off from enjoying my last years on Earth, I would also be cutting myself off from half of humanity.

And for what? because one guy fucked up my life royally?

that is what I was trying to tell you before on your other threads before we got into an insult slapdown.

Personally, it offends me GREATLY as a man, when you post things that lump me in with people like my ex, who was a cheater. When you posted that thread about "Why do all men cheat, it really really hurt my feelings that you without even meeting me would lump me in with people like him just because I happen to be the same gender.

This is why I got so upset. You had prejudged me and all other men without even having spoken to me just beacuse I am a man.

Right, so now my cover as this screen name is blown, but I don't care. I just needed some time to center myself, and I think I just did.

Chris

DrFrankenfurter said:

Hey you!

And ya know, I do want to take this opportunity to apologise to you for getting so upset and saying the things I did, but it hurt. It hurt a lot as a VERY feminist aware male to be lumped in with the people I am fighting against just because I am a male. This does not excuse the things I said, but I did find a lot of your posts to be very anti-male and sexist, and some of the things you posted as Mizzunderstood in that horrid racial GD thread a few weeks ago to be fairly anti-white and racist.

I come from a family that has many black family members (4 cousins, an uncle, a sister-in-law and 2 nephews) and a family of women that have been trampled upon just because they were women. I am VERY aware of hate be it against white, black, gay, straight, male or female, or any other group because of it.

DrFrankenfurter said:

Listen I didn't mean 2 hurt ur feelings, I wasn't trying 2 offend anyone, I was just expressing how I felt in a certain siuation. It never intent 2 hurt anybody, but more of a way 2 make some aware, people do cheat I know that, but I was hurt by a man, I do apologize if I hurt ur feelings

I just been hurt and see the difference between a woman and a man is, a women will whole a grudge 4ever, seriosuly, when a woman is fed up, she's mad at the world, I've been hurt so many times before even dissed from my own father, it's hard 4 me 2 see beyond the things I've experienced, that I've really experienced in my life. I never really meant a man, who was actually 4 me, If you know what I've been through with men, including physical abuse and sexual abuse, then I think you will understand where I am coming from. It impact my life so much, I didn't even want 2 be in the same room with a man, but I'm getting better at it

I"m hoping someday some man will come in my life 2 change what's been broken, took advantage of and stole
If I ever in my life find a guy who's really 4 me and 4 me only I will eat all my words, one by one .
[This message was edited Thu Aug 21 0:36:16 PDT 2003 by DigitalLisa]

Muse2NOPharaoh said:

Hi hon! thank you for keeping it quiet, but it's all out in the open now.

How are you?