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Printableian said: DORA said: DO WE GET EXTRA POINTS...
if... a) order another orger to get on their knees and give head to the moderator in question b) let our asses be spanked till red c) make peace by just kissing ass..? [This message was edited Wed Jul 23 14:51:24 PDT 2003 by DORA] I can't lie to you Dora... yes. You gain +10,000 points. IAN ok i will start with the ass spanking ??? | |
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ian said: AnotherLoverToo said: I have to go to work, so I don't have the time to properly address this thread at the moment. However, I do want to say that my opinion is that you've oversimplified/trivialized the matter and the very real concerns of a large number of Orgers whose experience has been altered permanently by some of the perceived favoritism, ian. I find that there is a lot going on under the surface of this place that goes missed, and DOES get reported, but is not understood for what it is.
Certainly possible, but what would you do about such things "under the surface". How would you deal with it? I'm not trivialising anything - the question is, what can you do in a situation like that? No, that "large number of Orgers" I refered to does not include me. I have determined that I will no longer fight anyone's battles but my own here, after having put myself in the middle of too many personal skirmishes that had nothing to do with me, where I foolishly thought I could help people. I am here now only to have fun, learn and interact with those I admire.
Great, but what would you do in this situation if you were moderator? Which option would you choose? As you can see they all have their problems. Plenty of people sit on the sidelines and grumble about how crap something is, but it is another matter entirely to come up with a solution. Not that I am saying that about you, AL2. No, I don't envy your position and quite likely it was an aspect of the "job" you didn't anticipate when you agreed to become an Org moderator. As far as your question about what I'd do, well--you're in luck, cause I just so happen to be in the business of problem-solving  I think you have more options than what you've listed, one of them being for Ben--not you, Ian--to approach Orger X and one representative of the members of the other group and attempt to broker a peace of sorts. This could be done in a group Instant Messaging session (Ben, OrgerX and "Rebel Leader", lol) all together at the same time, or Ben being the go-between for passing messages along) Each side dialogues what he wishes to see happen differently in the future. This would not be a time for "he did this February 23/he said that on May 30", it would be something more like, "in the past, (such and such action/behavior) has caused problems and what I'd like to see happen instead is (new action/behavior)." I also think that Ben should discuss your (Ian's) moderating with both of them as well, how you might be able to adopt a new style to help them maintain the hoped for "truce".
Just some thoughts. Obviously, this would require some maturity, patience and openness on the part of everyone--a real desire to see things change for the better of the Org community as a whole, as opposed to an ego trip full of testosterone. In any case, I think getting both sides to start a meaningful dialogue is key. [This message was edited Wed Jul 23 21:50:44 PDT 2003 by AnotherLoverToo] | |
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 I mean, like, where is the sun? | |
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XxAxX said: ok. i failed the game.
so then i tried again using option g: viciously,ruthlessly, flagrantly attack the orger in question, giving him/her a taste of his/her own medicine until he/she cries uncle. . . would that work?? hmm?? would it?? hmmm??? perhaps i'm just not cut out to be a moderator . . . 
I was going to say that but you beat me by 5+ hours. darnit!! I mean, like, where is the sun? | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: ian said: AnotherLoverToo said: I have to go to work, so I don't have the time to properly address this thread at the moment. However, I do want to say that my opinion is that you've oversimplified/trivialized the matter and the very real concerns of a large number of Orgers whose experience has been altered permanently by some of the perceived favoritism, ian. I find that there is a lot going on under the surface of this place that goes missed, and DOES get reported, but is not understood for what it is.
Certainly possible, but what would you do about such things "under the surface". How would you deal with it? I'm not trivialising anything - the question is, what can you do in a situation like that? No, that "large number of Orgers" I refered to does not include me. I have determined that I will no longer fight anyone's battles but my own here, after having put myself in the middle of too many personal skirmishes that had nothing to do with me, where I foolishly thought I could help people. I am here now only to have fun, learn and interact with those I admire.
Great, but what would you do in this situation if you were moderator? Which option would you choose? As you can see they all have their problems. Plenty of people sit on the sidelines and grumble about how crap something is, but it is another matter entirely to come up with a solution. Not that I am saying that about you, AL2. No, I don't envy your position and quite likely it was an aspect of the "job" you didn't anticipate when you agreed to become an Org moderator. As far as your question about what I'd do, well--you're in luck, cause I just so happen to be in the business of problem-solving I think you have more options than what you've listed, one of them being for Ben--not you, Ian--to approach Orger X and one representative of the members of the other group and attempt to broker a peace of sorts. This could be done in a group Instant Messaging session (Ben, OrgerX and "Rebel Leader", lol) all together at the same time, or Ben being the go-between for passing messages along) Each side dialogues what he wishes to see happen differently in the future. This would not be a time for "he did this February 23/he said that on May 30", it would be something more like, "in the past, (such and such action/behavior) has caused problems and what I'd like to see happen instead is (new action/behavior)." I also think that Ben should discuss your (Ian's) moderating with both of them as well, how you might be able to adopt a new style to help them maintain the hoped for "truce".
Just some thoughts. Obviously, this would require some maturity, patience and openness on the part of everyone--a real desire to see things change for the better of the Org community as a whole, as opposed to an ego trip full of testosterone. In any case, I think getting both sides to start a meaningful dialogue is key. [This message was edited Wed Jul 23 21:50:44 PDT 2003 by AnotherLoverToo] Thanks for the suggestion... however, in practise it didn't quite work. No one could ever accuse us of not being available for dialogue on such issues - that is always how we handle things. However the people you mentioned unfortunately were never able to really illucidate their feelings with any structure, civility or organisation - all we got was "this guy is a prick, why haven't you got rid of him? You must be biased" etc. We offered to engage in dialogue, and all we got was screaming in the forums, flames, abusive messages, ruining the forums etc. Frankly, I think you are wrongfully assuming the existence of a will to see the Org improve in those people, when in fact it generally doesn't exist. Assume for a moment that those people don't give a shit about the Org, they just want this person they hate gone. Do we allow every person who screams and causes a ton of trouble on the site to have one-to-one dialogue with Ben with a view to changing the rules to suit their needs? Personally I think that would be a bad precedent to set. My view is that if people approach the problem with maturity, patience, civility, then we can engage in dialogue and see what we can do. Unfortunately though, such incidents usually manifest themselves in a lot of unstructured tantrums and screaming. And think about it... what if you engage in dialogue, but they don't get the answers they wanted to hear? Start screaming for blood again? You can see the problem  In this instance, we spoke to everyone concerned, but no one was interested in engaging in dialogue, they just wanted the result they wanted, right now. Even though we were in no position to deliver it, and even if we were it would involve treating Orger X with unfair harshness (as opposed to treating him like every other Orger).
In some instances, the actions of these people in trying to make their point was actually far worse than anything Orger X ever did in the past I'm talking racist posts, overtly abusive messages, threatening messages etc. | |
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What about a moderator starting a thread devoted to Orger X, to discuss everything publically, let everyone vent, possibly deliver an "Org smackdown" or possibly clear up any misunderstanding? Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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