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SHOULD I TIE THE NUT? Now that two guys or gals can finally up here in beautiful Canada, I've been musing about marriage. You see, I've been living with my beloved P. for almost 14 years now. We've been through everything. First, we cheated on each other's main squeeze, then we moved in together.
Barely two years later, we faced AIDS (his). At first we were scared. These were the bad old days of AZT, of friends dying monthly in twos or threes. He couldn't work taking this vomit in a pill. He was depressed and so was I, but we kept our heads up and worked through the anxiety. Three years later, we said goodbye to our monogamy. That was stressful at first, especially for him (I had some practice at this kind of arrangement). We were a bit jealous at time (still are!), but we found a modus vivendi. I lost my job and was so very afraid I couldn't support us both. In my last week of unemployment, I found a better job. He decided to take some correspondance courses and discovered he was gifted (he didn't like school when he was younger). I got a promotion, then another one. He got involved in the community and became a true leader. Then they allowed to get married. I asked him : "Hey... do you think us two...?" He said he didn't like the Michaels, the first gay couple to be officially married. I watched the news and had to agree : how annoying! Why would we subject ourselves to a torrent of confetti? And what about this "nut" which everyone says we have to tie? I don't understand why it's just one and not two. I don't think I have a clear grasp of marriage -- you heteros have this practice -- we don't. We're afraid we'll become like an actual hetero couple, whatever that is (and I'm not saying what I think that is...) So I thought I'd ask you guys : do you think we should tie the nut? And which one? [This message was edited Thu Jul 17 20:30:57 PDT 2003 by Aerogram] | |
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YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
:W00T: :W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T: YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES :W00T: :W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T: YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES :W00T: :W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T: YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES :W00T: :W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T: YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES :W00T: :W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T: YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES :W00T: :W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T::W00T: YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES | |
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Aerogram said: So I thought I'd ask you guys : do you think we should tie the nut? And which one?
:LOL: well seriously, i think you should only do what your heart tells you to do. seems as if you both have been through a lot of ups and downs together. i don't think it will change you...at least not completely. your marriage should be based on your own values, and not that of others; hetero or homo! live together, love together. it is a huge commitment for most people, so i would consider your reasons for why you'd want to. don't jump right into it just because it's the "in" thing to do. and being together 14 years is basically a marriage anyway. if it ain't broke, don't fix it!  either way good luck!
 who's wearing the dress??? j/k
. [This message was edited Thu Jul 17 20:21:06 PDT 2003 by VenusAsABoy] | |
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dont listen to him/her venus person
aero this is history... you and your parnter are history... believe in what will happen not in what couldnt live..!!! and part of life is LOVE... THANK GOD FOR CANADA THAT RECOGNIZES MARRIAGE OF ALL COUPLES... in the states civil unions in vermont is all they could muster... YES YES YES YES YES YES... GO DO BE all that love wants | |
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i wasn't opposing to the marriage
 | |
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Aero, I confess I've not followd the gay marriage issue. What benefits would you gain that you couldn't already enjoy through some power-of-attorney-type arrangement? I ask completely out of ignorance.
As for some validation beyond legal, is it really necessary to the health of your relationship? You seem committed, stable and happy already. Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” | |
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Lammastide said: Aero, I confess I've not followd the gay marriage issue. What benefits would you gain that you couldn't already enjoy through some power-of-attorney-type arrangement? I ask completely out of ignorance.
As for some validation beyond legal, is it really necessary to the health of your relationship? You seem committed, stable and happy already. Yep.. we are. But there are fiscal advantages. The problem is that we're both pretty anti-establishment anything. Unions are can be civil, but to us it feels like we seeked permission. We're afraid to lose our edge, our otherness. | |
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For instance, is it true fun flies out the window shortly after the wedding? I must know. You guys have experience... | |
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Aerogram said: Lammastide said: Aero, I confess I've not followd the gay marriage issue. What benefits would you gain that you couldn't already enjoy through some power-of-attorney-type arrangement? I ask completely out of ignorance.
As for some validation beyond legal, is it really necessary to the health of your relationship? You seem committed, stable and happy already. Yep.. we are. But there are fiscal advantages. The problem is that we're both pretty anti-establishment anything. Unions are can be civil, but to us it feels like we seeked permission. We're afraid to lose our edge, our otherness. I think that's sometimes referred to as "false pride" or "cutting off your nose to spite your face"  [This message was edited Thu Jul 17 20:38:37 PDT 2003 by AnotherLoverToo] | |
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Marriage= (health insurance, combined financial responsibilities... including debt, and... possible abundant tax returns)... etc...
 ... I know.
Ps~ If it is for spiritual reason... , do it. 
 [This message was edited Thu Jul 17 20:41:58 PDT 2003 by Freespirit] | |
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I think you should follow your heart. Don't do it for the novelty. | |
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Aero, I'm a gay man who was married to a woman for 7 years with a truly strange and unconventional story. I've got a lot of ambivalent feelings about the issue... and I want to sort them out before I unload them. 
I'll get back to you soon on this one. This is interesting. I will say, however, that fun and spontaneity does not HAVE to die with a marriage. More than much else, a relationship post-nuptuals is what a couple makes it. Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” | |
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Lammastide said: Aero, I'm a gay man who was married to a woman for 7 years with a truly strange and unconventional story. I've got a lot of ambivalent feelings about the issue... and I want to sort them out before I unload them.
I'll get back to you soon on this one. This is interesting. I will say, however, that fun and spontaneity does not HAVE to die with a marriage. More than much else, a relationship post-nuptuals is what a couple makes it. , very true... if the second time around comes for me... I will definitely be more aware/knowledgeable... 
(what the heck... I know what I mean) 
~Live for the moment... live now. [This message was edited Thu Jul 17 20:59:23 PDT 2003 by Freespirit] | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: Aerogram said: Lammastide said: Aero, I confess I've not followd the gay marriage issue. What benefits would you gain that you couldn't already enjoy through some power-of-attorney-type arrangement? I ask completely out of ignorance.
As for some validation beyond legal, is it really necessary to the health of your relationship? You seem committed, stable and happy already. Yep.. we are. But there are fiscal advantages. The problem is that we're both pretty anti-establishment anything. Unions are can be civil, but to us it feels like we seeked permission. We're afraid to lose our edge, our otherness. I think that's sometimes referred to as "false pride" or "cutting off your nose to spite your face"
[This message was edited Thu Jul 17 20:38:37 PDT 2003 by AnotherLoverToo] I dunno... how can pride be false? I never understood that one. If you know a little bit about me, you can figure that I haven't exactly been welcomed in all those institutions, starting with school. Then it was the whole social scene in high school, which repulsed me (and by all account, they weren't too keen to have me around). I always have to work extra hard to be part of something, so I've often chosen not to try and just accept that I'm in the margin. Of course, now I don't feel like a total outsider anymore, but there are still many reasons to feel this way. Marriage would be a step toward a certain conformity, which just isn't very natural for me. It would take some work. | |
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Aerogram said: AnotherLoverToo said: Aerogram said: Lammastide said: Aero, I confess I've not followd the gay marriage issue. What benefits would you gain that you couldn't already enjoy through some power-of-attorney-type arrangement? I ask completely out of ignorance.
As for some validation beyond legal, is it really necessary to the health of your relationship? You seem committed, stable and happy already. Yep.. we are. But there are fiscal advantages. The problem is that we're both pretty anti-establishment anything. Unions are can be civil, but to us it feels like we seeked permission. We're afraid to lose our edge, our otherness. I think that's sometimes referred to as "false pride" or "cutting off your nose to spite your face"
[This message was edited Thu Jul 17 20:38:37 PDT 2003 by AnotherLoverToo] I dunno... how can pride be false? I never understood that one. If you know a little bit about me, you can figure that I haven't exactly been welcomed in all those institutions, starting with school. Then it was the whole social scene in high school, which repulsed me (and by all account, they weren't too keen to have me around). I always have to work extra hard to be part of something, so I've often chosen not to try and just accept that I'm in the margin. Of course, now I don't feel like a total outsider anymore, but there are still many reasons to feel this way. Marriage would be a step toward a certain conformity, which just isn't very natural for me. It would take some work. I hear ya, and for various reasons I've always identified as "other",too. But what I meant by the 'false pride'/'spiting yourself' is that sometimes we do things that aren't in our own best interests solely for appearance/image's sake. If it's genuinely in your best interests to maintain that reputation and self-image, if you're unable to still feel unique/special in marriage, then don't do it. But if your reluctance is more about appearances than who you are, well then maybe take another look? | |
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I think if you couldn't imagine yourself with anyone else ever, it definitely couldn't hurt. And it would be so romantic. You're obviously committed for life, but saying those wedding vows to eachother might be a natural and beautiful next step. And it's an opportunity that you finally have the chance to act on. I wouldn't worry too much about the conformity issue. The truth is, gay marraige is so new and foreign to most people, that you'd actually be doing something very forward-thinking and non-conformist. I believe that many people would still rather not hear about this sort of thing, let alone have it be legal. But it should've never been an issue to begin with, so in a way, you'd be rebelling. Either way, I think it's great that you're contemplating it. And whichever you choose, I hope it turns out for the best. Good luck.  | |
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TRON said: I think if you couldn't imagine yourself with anyone else ever, it definitely couldn't hurt. And it would be so romantic. You're obviously committed for life, but saying those wedding vows to eachother might be a natural and beautiful next step. And it's an opportunity that you finally have the chance to act on. I wouldn't worry too much about the conformity issue. The truth is, gay marraige is so new and foreign to most people, that you'd actually be doing something very forward-thinking and non-conformist. I believe that many people would still rather not hear about this sort of thing, let alone have it be legal. But it should've never been an issue to begin with, so in a way, you'd be rebelling. Either way, I think it's great that you're contemplating it. And whichever you choose, I hope it turns out for the best. Good luck.
thats right...thats why me and tron are marrying next week!, christina aguliera is the wedding music. . .. . edits edit [This message was edited Thu Jul 17 21:15:03 PDT 2003 by Christopher] | |
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Christopher said: christina aguliera is the weeding music
Aww, yeah baby. And Avril playing in the honeymoon suite.  | |
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Christopher said: TRON said: I think if you couldn't imagine yourself with anyone else ever, it definitely couldn't hurt. And it would be so romantic. You're obviously committed for life, but saying those wedding vows to eachother might be a natural and beautiful next step. And it's an opportunity that you finally have the chance to act on. I wouldn't worry too much about the conformity issue. The truth is, gay marraige is so new and foreign to most people, that you'd actually be doing something very forward-thinking and non-conformist. I believe that many people would still rather not hear about this sort of thing, let alone have it be legal. But it should've never been an issue to begin with, so in a way, you'd be rebelling. Either way, I think it's great that you're contemplating it. And whichever you choose, I hope it turns out for the best. Good luck.
thats right...thats why me and tron are marrying next week!, christina aguliera is the wedding music. . .. . edits edit [This message was edited Thu Jul 17 21:15:03 PDT 2003 by Christopher] Damn, you just changed it from "weeding" to "wedding"! I was gonna post something about Pesticides and stuff... Daphne Aguliera would be cool, too!  | |
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TRON said: Christopher said: christina aguliera is the weeding music
Aww, yeah baby. And Avril playing in the honeymoon suite. nsync,craigdavid,and michelle branch ...to | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: thats right...thats why me and tron are marrying next week!, christina aguliera is the wedding music. . .. . edits edit [This message was edited Thu Jul 17 21:15:03 PDT 2003 by Christopher] Damn, you just changed it from "weeding" to "wedding"! I was gonna post something about Pesticides and stuff... Daphne Aguliera would be cool, too! [/quote]
Daphnes on the set! | |
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Christopher said: TRON said: Christopher said: christina aguliera is the weeding music
Aww, yeah baby. And Avril playing in the honeymoon suite. nsync,craigdavid,and michelle branch ...to and PINK most of all! "Feel Good Time!!!"  | |
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Christopher said: thats right...thats why me and tron are marrying next week!,
christina aguliera is the wedding music. hold me! I mean, like, where is the sun? | |
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TRON said: Christopher said: TRON said: Christopher said: christina aguliera is the weeding music
Aww, yeah baby. And Avril playing in the honeymoon suite. nsync,craigdavid,and michelle branch ...to and PINK most of all! "Feel Good Time!!!" we can have like a "SELENA wedding cake"  | |
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Natsume said: Christopher said: thats right...thats why me and tron are marrying next week!,
christina aguliera is the wedding music. hold me! he's mine. back off! :evil2: | |
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TRON said: Natsume said: Christopher said: thats right...thats why me and tron are marrying next week!,
christina aguliera is the wedding music. hold me! he's mine. back off! :evil2: ashanti..aww baby..murda INC!... | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: Aerogram said: AnotherLoverToo said: Aerogram said: Lammastide said: Aero, I confess I've not followd the gay marriage issue. What benefits would you gain that you couldn't already enjoy through some power-of-attorney-type arrangement? I ask completely out of ignorance.
As for some validation beyond legal, is it really necessary to the health of your relationship? You seem committed, stable and happy already. Yep.. we are. But there are fiscal advantages. The problem is that we're both pretty anti-establishment anything. Unions are can be civil, but to us it feels like we seeked permission. We're afraid to lose our edge, our otherness. I think that's sometimes referred to as "false pride" or "cutting off your nose to spite your face"
[This message was edited Thu Jul 17 20:38:37 PDT 2003 by AnotherLoverToo] I dunno... how can pride be false? I never understood that one. If you know a little bit about me, you can figure that I haven't exactly been welcomed in all those institutions, starting with school. Then it was the whole social scene in high school, which repulsed me (and by all account, they weren't too keen to have me around). I always have to work extra hard to be part of something, so I've often chosen not to try and just accept that I'm in the margin. Of course, now I don't feel like a total outsider anymore, but there are still many reasons to feel this way. Marriage would be a step toward a certain conformity, which just isn't very natural for me. It would take some work. I hear ya, and for various reasons I've always identified as "other",too. But what I meant by the 'false pride'/'spiting yourself' is that sometimes we do things that aren't in our own best interests solely for appearance/image's sake. If it's genuinely in your best interests to maintain that reputation and self-image, if you're unable to still feel unique/special in marriage, then don't do it. But if your reluctance is more about appearances than who you are, well then maybe take another look? It's more about who I am than appearances. I even dread the idea of a ceremony with a social gathering. I successfully avoided almost all wedding invitations in my life, so... I'm getting pretty good advice. [This message was edited Fri Jul 18 3:11:12 PDT 2003 by Aerogram] | |
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TRON said: I think if you couldn't imagine yourself with anyone else ever, it definitely couldn't hurt. And it would be so romantic. You're obviously committed for life, but saying those wedding vows to eachother might be a natural and beautiful next step. And it's an opportunity that you finally have the chance to act on. I wouldn't worry too much about the conformity issue. The truth is, gay marraige is so new and foreign to most people, that you'd actually be doing something very forward-thinking and non-conformist. I believe that many people would still rather not hear about this sort of thing, let alone have it be legal. But it should've never been an issue to begin with, so in a way, you'd be rebelling. Either way, I think it's great that you're contemplating it. And whichever you choose, I hope it turns out for the best. Good luck.
I have a pretty good reason : both our mamas want us to. They are like "You can't give us grandchildren, so could you guys at least throw a wedding?" And we're like "But living in sin is such fun!" It's as if the best argument would be that tying the nut would make those other things (the non-monogamy things... ) even more sinful.
We're not much into appearances, especially me. Even if people would frown upon it, I wouldn't see their frowns. | |
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Christopher said: TRON said: I think if you couldn't imagine yourself with anyone else ever, it definitely couldn't hurt. And it would be so romantic. You're obviously committed for life, but saying those wedding vows to eachother might be a natural and beautiful next step. And it's an opportunity that you finally have the chance to act on. I wouldn't worry too much about the conformity issue. The truth is, gay marraige is so new and foreign to most people, that you'd actually be doing something very forward-thinking and non-conformist. I believe that many people would still rather not hear about this sort of thing, let alone have it be legal. But it should've never been an issue to begin with, so in a way, you'd be rebelling. Either way, I think it's great that you're contemplating it. And whichever you choose, I hope it turns out for the best. Good luck.
thats right...thats why me and tron are marrying next week!, christina aguliera is the wedding music. . .. . edits edit [This message was edited Thu Jul 17 21:15:03 PDT 2003 by Christopher] Christina? Honey, we're not that gay! Thinking about the music does make it more appealing though. | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: Christopher said: TRON said: I think if you couldn't imagine yourself with anyone else ever, it definitely couldn't hurt. And it would be so romantic. You're obviously committed for life, but saying those wedding vows to eachother might be a natural and beautiful next step. And it's an opportunity that you finally have the chance to act on. I wouldn't worry too much about the conformity issue. The truth is, gay marraige is so new and foreign to most people, that you'd actually be doing something very forward-thinking and non-conformist. I believe that many people would still rather not hear about this sort of thing, let alone have it be legal. But it should've never been an issue to begin with, so in a way, you'd be rebelling. Either way, I think it's great that you're contemplating it. And whichever you choose, I hope it turns out for the best. Good luck.
thats right...thats why me and tron are marrying next week!, christina aguliera is the wedding music. . .. . edits edit [This message was edited Thu Jul 17 21:15:03 PDT 2003 by Christopher] Damn, you just changed it from "weeding" to "wedding"! I was gonna post something about Pesticides and stuff... Daphne Aguliera would be cool, too! 
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