I work in a Maternity Clinic of a hospital (6 Nurse Midwives and 1 OB/GYN), and we're a team of midwives, nurses, nutritionists and social workers who give pre-natal care/deliver babies. I observe moms and dads with their kids all of the time and usually it's a blast. Today, though, there was one woman I overheard who was speaking to her child like a fucking crazy ass bitch if ever there was one.

I was passing by an exam room and overheard this woman talking, and because there was never a reply to anything she said, at first I thought she was talking to her husband/boyfriend or something on a cellphone. Judging from her tone of voice, I also thought that he'd done something really horrible. I got a glimpse into the room as I walked down the hall and turned my head to look in the door, and saw a little girl who couldn't have been more than 6 yrs old. I just can't describe the mom's tone of voice, either, it was so angry and just MEAN/BITTER! Here's what I can remember of it:

(MOM said) "Now we're not going to go to the store or get anything to eat because of the way you acted. SHUT UP, no, don't look at me like that. It's all your fault that we're not going because of your behavior, you embarrassed me, so what do you think about that? SHUT UP, NO it's too late now" (*keep in mind, this kid did not say a word the entire time, so when she's saying "shut up", it's to utter silence--the mom must've been reacting to the kid's facial expression*).

I really wanted to cut in and talk to the mom right then and there about how inappropriate her language and methods were, but first of all she was seeing the midwife and not me that day and, secondly, I was worried she'd take her anger at me interfering out on her kid later at home.

You guys--wtf is wrong with people? I know parenting gets rough sometimes, and I think many parents spoil their kids out of guilt that they work so much, so they let them get away with murder (sometimes literally). But to speak to your child like that, as if she is unworthy of any respect or decency? And to think, this woman is pregnant again???!!! She'd better not end up being my client, cause if I see her I am going to have a huge conflict. She's probably a coward and only does it when no one's around, too.

Anyway, just wanted to vent. Thanks!

People like that dont deserve to have any kids.

Some people shouldn't be allowed to breed. I was at a county fair last weekend and this mother was speaking to her toddler as I walked by. He was having a fit, like babies do and she goes:

"ok, Im not in your space..." The way she said it was like she was talking to an adult, sarcastic. I thinking, like the child is gonna understand wtf she means! If the child did "get it", what kind of example is that?


[This message was edited Thu Jul 3 23:01:03 PDT 2003 by VinaBlue]

I just got one question?

Do u have any children???

And you know, it went on for awhile. It wasn't one little mean thing that was said, the mom just went on and on and on...I'd just finished seeing someone, and I was making copies of something on the copymachine, which is just outside that exam room. The door was open a bit, and at first I didn't pay any attention to what was going on. But then the mom's tone of voice caught my attention, and I started listening to what she was saying. I was so curious as to whom she could be talking to like that, that I walked by and took a quick look in, expecting to see her on the phone with somebody...and instead, I saw the back of this little kid, a girl, I couldn't see her face. You know, I think about the effects that a constant dose of this kind of verbal abuse could produce, and it makes my stomach hurt. This little girl is going to think she's a piece of shit by the time she grows up (if she doesn't already), and/or she's going to start taking her anger out on other people and repeat the cycle and do unto others as was done unto her...

DigitalLisa said:

It's not an excuse to speak to a child that way. I don't have any, and I probably wont. But there should be parenting classes or something, like a test and a license to obtain. People who have no social skills shouldn't be allowed to create more people without social skills.

IMHO.

DigitalLisa said:

If I have children, does that mean I'm allowed to have opinions and if I don't, then I'm not?

AnotherLoverToo said:

that's easy to say when u don't have kids, I know my mom had said some mean things she probably didn't mean to say, I'm sure your mom said some thing she didn't mean to say either... I was a bad little girl I wouldn't been stressed out if I was my child
[This message was edited Thu Jul 3 23:06:57 PDT 2003 by DigitalLisa]

DigitalLisa said:

Yeah, but think about how that affects the child. We carry these feelings into adulthood, weather we are aware of it or not.

Hey, one thing I want to make clear: I'm a firm disciplinarian. I make kids behave, and I don't tolerate crap, and I don't speak to them in baby voices. I don't give kids whatever they want, whenever they want it. But telling kids to "shut up", calling them names the way this woman was, and going on and on about it was just over the top. I know the difference between a loving mom making her kids behave vs. an abusive mom. This woman, as I said earlier, was a crazy ass bitch. And I've seen plenty, so I know...

AnotherLoverToo said:

Exactly.

VinaBlue said:

true ... but I understand where my mom was coming from, like I said before I was bad little girl. Just imagine raising kids on ur own with no man around and you got three people depending on u for survival, how stressed out would u b??? Then you got some hard head kids who won't listen to a thing u say and the house is a mess

DigitalLisa said:

I hear what you're saying, Lisa, I really do. My mom was one of those crazy ass bitches I"m talking about, in her way, and she was always sorry afterwards. She was a great mom in other ways, too. But my mom didn't go to this extreme that I heard today. This was out of bounds, I promise--but you'd have had to be there, I guess.

People don't realize the damage they do
to their kids...and if they EVER do...
they'll ALREADY have found someone or something ELSE to blame it on.

My housemate and I were in a store a few months ago, and heard a woman talking to her 5 year old child.

Kid: (who is holding her hand) Mommy, is your wart still on your hand?

Mother: Well maybe if you stopped touching it, it would you go away you little shit!



And my sister and I were in a fucking TOY STORE and heard two mothers tell their kids they were 'only there to look' and they 'couldn't get anything.' That's horrible.

I'm a Mum and I have a two and a half year old son.

This is the problem.

I sometimes get desperate and can't cope.

So I, hearing myself doing it, which is absolute TORTURE, sometimes speak to my son like a bit of shit.

I totally do not want to do it. It is not so much what is being said, I think it is the vibe and feeling behind it, the action/behaviour. And I know that I behave in ways that I really do not want to repeat, yet do.

There is a solution, I feel. I know that there are Parentcraft classes - a course in learning about parenting (I think you're right Vina) and learning about developmental stages.

I did something I am ashamed of now. A few weeks ago, I saw a women at a bus stop and she was rough handling her son, speaking to him like shit and just as I was getting on a bus, I said 'Why don't you stop doing that to him?' she said 'He's my son, I'll do what I like' so I said 'You're treating him like shit you know'.

IMO, children that are abused to ANY extent, are abused as the abuser was abused. Therapy and parent classes ought to help. I know that, as I am experiencing it.

I am not saying that the womans behaviour in the hospital, my behaviour and the woman at the bus stops behaviour was right, as we all know that it is not. However, really, the only way to tackle this is with compassion. What if I had extended myself in a compassionate way to the woman at the bus stop? Hating the 'behaviour' is one thing, hating on the person only compounds the behaviour, does nothing towards helping people OUT of difficulty. In fact, my hating the bus stop woman, was probably only a projection of my own disowned cruelty, seeing it in anothers actions.

Helping people that find it hard and people helping themselves, is the only way out. I do not enjoy behaving in such ways, yet, the understanding of the situation is that it happens due to REASONS, and my reasons are having no support from ANYONE, isolation and also from healing my own wounds from being abused.

I am fully aware that a child needs respecting as the wonderful individual they are and I feel that I do this also. I do not disrespect him all the time. I do not want to disrespect him AT ALL, yet I think the thing to understand, is that that happens out of ILLNESS, not health. Treating another person horribly, is out of illness. It is hard to respect a Mum who talks to their child like shit, yet, that is the way of health - understand that there are reasons behind behaviour.

I read a Buddhist thing once that says, those that trigger a person disgust in their observing, are the ones that need the most compassion in life - not just with this situation, but ANY situation, I think this is true. Those that suffer most, are the ones that need healing the most - quite straight forward and logical really.

I can understand your disgust in this situation. I understand any disgust when people treat children like shit. I guess, from being that mother sometimes and doing something about it, I want to give an insider point of view to let you know my reasons, in my situation.
[This message was edited Fri Jul 4 7:51:47 PDT 2003 by Therapy]

Don't get me started on this. I've heard some parents talk to there kids so bad I've been tempted to take a swing at them.

I've heard some gratuitus Fucking and blinding stuff coming out of there mouths! It depresses me!

AnotherLoverToo said:

Do u think parents are allowed to hit their children to discipline them or to calm them down?

irresistibleb1tch said:

That is sooo hard, yet sooo true.

Therapy said:

Therapy, I know it's hard. My sister has 2 kids and one on the way. She raised her first on her own til she was 2 and it was TORTURE for me to hear how she treated her. My sister is a bossy, selfish person to begin with. Anyway, she found a good man and they are getting married.

I worry about my neice, the oldest who has sustained the most verbal abuse. I know it's easy for me to say how children should be treated since I don't have any. I don't want any because I'm afraid I wont be able to live up to my own standards. I'm pretty impatient and sensitive. Hearing children cry is too much for me sometimes. I would be sooo overprotective too.

So while I believe that some people shouldn't have children to begin with (myself included), I also applaud those who are aware and are really trying to do a good job. We all do the best we can. You can teach your son so much Therapy, about Buddhism and psychology, just by setting the example. Explain why you act the way you do, tell him you didn't mean it and you're sorry. That's the best way, I think.

This thread was in no way meant to get the spank or don't spank/child discipline debate going again, nor was it supposed to be any judgmental accusation that anyone who isn't 100% perfect with their children is an asshole.

I can't stress to people enough that I expect parents to "mess up", to not say the right thing at all times, and to be frustrated. We learn as we go, and we do what we know (usually based on how we were parented). Kids are little shits sometimes, lol, and it's impossible to "reason" with them at certain ages because their brains don't comprehend. So we act on impulse at times, and choose to do what will make the unwanted behavior stop the most quickly. We tend to do it in all relationships, too, not just with our children.

Therapy, what you've said about using a compassionate approach with angry parents is so right-on. What I've done in the past is say something to the person like, "wow, you must've had a tough day, and it's so crowded in this office/store/wherever we are--is there anything I can do to help you wind down? Would you like me to watch your little boy/girl for a couple of minutes?" (hopefully they don't think I'm a perv, lol) Or I just ask them questions about themselves, and a lot of times what's wrong comes out and they leave seeming to feel much better.

I think it was the malice and bitterness in this woman's voice that really shocked me so much yesterday. And the length of her speech to the girl, the way it went on and on. A child just doesn't have the tools to handle that kind of emotional attack from her parents, who are the center of a kid's universe at that age...

I am bawling...

Vina... Another...

Thank you both.

Vina, it is torture for me hearing myself. The more aware I am becoming of my own ill-parts, the more I want them gone, yet I know it doesn't work like that - I can't get rid of my behaviour over night, unfortunatly, so have to go through the process of change in a painfully slow way, each time that I behave in ways that I don't like, I hurt and yes, I think the way you have described explaining to my son what is happening, is spot on. I didn't plan to have my son, yet I didn't prevent his being either, this is weird to explain, I know there was a time when I didn't want children as I was frightened about how I would feel, which I have actually experienced now, yet I can also see what you are saying about passing on the knowledge that I have. I see that as immensely important that he knows himself in awareness if you know what I mean... I know he will be aware of his evolution...

AnotherLoverToo, the balance seems to be wrong to me for my own relationship with my son. I think if I spent a smaller proportion of time with all the ways that don't work, then when they did happen, I think I could then handle the frustration etc. The times where I am engaging with him in a healthy way are on the increase and last for longer too. There is usually a period of time where things are incredibly difficult and then things get better and I can cope. I have faith that I will heal from my own wounds and find ways of coping which I have witnessed so far to contribute towards healthier ways of living and relating with my son.

Sounds like you have a well developed way of relating to those angry parents and I have taken note of your example here... thank you

I agree with you as well, that a child doesn't have the tools to cope with an emotional attack, but develops defensive mechanisms to survive them and yes, the parents are the centre of the universe. I guess that is what happened to me... the people at the centre of the universe when I was a child turned on me...they abandoned me for my younger sibling, then abused me mentally and emotionally for the rest of my childhood and beyond. I guess one reason why I am so freaked is that I desperately do not want to repeat this and hand this bundle down to my son. I know it is in me and I am working it out of me, yet it can't come quick enough in my book.

I have two daughters under the age of four, and they can drive me mad. But I NEVER, NEVER speak to them like that. I think that's disgusting.
I find a hard slap across the chops shuts their little faces pronto!

Natsume said:

What's so bad about that? Maybe they were shopping for another kid's birthday gift or something.

That is down right abusive. My heart goes out to that little girl. Trouble is she will be just like her mom cause she will grow up thinking that's normal. Ahhh poor thing. I would have stopped that bitch ASAP.

luv4u said:

Maybe not... I know what I experienced isn't right, which is why I've made changes.

My parents have never spoken to me like that, I am happy.

Any stress, they dealt with it away from us.

My Dad was dying, and had a life saving operation. My Mum had her own business, she worked 9 till 5.30, drove us 3 kids to school before work, arranged for us to be picked up after school. Made our meals, cleaned the house, paid the bills while my Dad lay in hospital. Then she drove to hospital to visit my Dad.

When she came away, she told me (very recently) she sat in the car and cried her heart out. Sometimes she would visit her Mum to talk to her and calm down before she came home to us.

When my Mum returned from hospital, she would only show love, not worry, upset or anger towards us.

My parents have disciplined me, but never over crossed the line to be abusive, emotionally or physically.

That is just WRONG!!!


Luckily for me, I have learned that from them and when I have children, I will make a concious effort not to display my own anger or stresses in life, and take it out on my children.

My stepfather verbally (and sometimes physically) abused me a lot when I was a kid. That's still with me, I think. That's why I'm in therapy now. I'm dealing with (and have always had) low self-esteem.