I have just finished watching Gaspar Noe's 'Irreversible' - and im still in a state of shock over what I've just seen unfold be4 me on screen. I've always been the type of movie-goer that can not only appreciate the pop-corn munching, commercial fodder but also the darker, more humanistic movies 2.

Now Ive seen some films in my time - I dont particularly 'enjoy' all of films (much like art, not ALL films are there 2 be 'enjoyed' - and I think if anybody 'enjoyed' Irreversible, then I would seriously wonder at their moral code). But it's the experience that is important - life doesn't always have a happy ending, and this is rarely portrayed on celluloid.

The last film I saw even in the same realm as this was 'Requiem For A Dream' where it kept ramming up the pace gear after gear, until many people in the theatre literally couldnt watch/take anymore, and had 2 up and leave.

It was one of those experiences that not only left u with something seriously meaty 2 chew over and discuss afterwards with friends but also a validating experience in knowing that there ARE film-makers of vison still out there willing 2 put their careers and necks on the line with projects they believe in. (Not 2 mention the fact that it contains THE best performance Ive ever seen ANY actress give - Ellen Burstein was a revelation)

Im digressing. I really cant put in2 words what this movie does - all I CAN say is Ive never seen anything put on screen that has been so unflinchingly, brutally honest, whilst avoiding the route of gratuitousness.


I'd advise anyone who's able 2 go the distance with a more cerbral-type movie and let it willingly take them wherever it may lead (even if it enters in2 the depths of human despair and suffering), that it is an experience deserving of 2 hours of your life.
Be WARNED however, it ISN'T 4 the feint-of-heart. It is uncompromising right from the outset.

I've mentioned plenty so far about the emotions it will provoke, but hardly anything of the story itself.
I think I'll leave that 2 someone who can better sumise it than I:
http://www.suntimes.com/e...31403.html

START THE JOURNEY:
http://www.irreversibleth...intro.html

I've read a lot about this film (Irreversible), good and bad, but I don't think I could stand to view or could appreciate a movie that shows a graphic rape scene lasting (I think they said) a full five minutes. That takes it to the realm of gratuituous, in my mind and heart.

I also thought Requiem for a Dream was amazingly good!

I don't see movies.

Irreversible was a load of rotten celluloid. Terrible, terrible film

I liked Requiem for a Dream , though
[This message was edited Sun Jun 22 14:09:44 PDT 2003 by garganta]

A lot of people who saw the movie, were sick to their stomachs during the rape scene but it wasn't only because of how graphic the scene was (i couldn't tell since i haven't seen it...)

It was also because the director used a special sound effect used by the anti-riot police in France which makes people sick. It's a low frequency humming which turns your insides out!

this just really isn't my type of movie.

QstnOfU said:

Well now I have to see it just to see if I would puke or not.

AnotherLoverToo said:

I appreciate that this is most definately going 2 be a film with a 50/50 viewpoint on it - rape is a subject that is tip-toed around in film (making it a seemingly 'taboo' subject, when we should be discussing these things more openly - I bet all of us could think of a number of subjects that SHOULD be discussed, and not hidden and locked away) I dont think Ive ever seen a rape scene that has portrayed it's unimaginable horror succesfully.

Then again, it ISNT as simplistic as that - SHE is the one that gets savagely raped - but her partner also becomes debased and broken by the experience of its emotional aftermath. It's through the crushing destruction of his love that brings out the savagery and animal within him (as we see right at the start of the film) at this point, we do not know the full story, so immeadiatley we make assumptions upon this persons character.

The idea of this film is 2 confront u with the harsh, brutal truth - it is nasty, it is cruel and brutal. The way it is filmed is absolutely unflinching and unrelenting. But that's the whole point: u dont get cutaways in real life - u cant just up and leave. The sheer length of the violent attack on her is truly unreal, but these attacks on women dont just happen in the course of 30seconds - it shows u the sheer inhumanity that exists, and refuses 2 compromise.

U only have 2 look at Pekinpah's notorious 'Straw Dogs' 2 see that through editing, the power of that scene and all it implies has been watered down so much as 2 imply that she is enjoying it (Susan george is seen pouting her lips, and after a short while seemingly 'enjoying' her ordeal - which SURELY isnt the intention? Rape IS ugly - no doubt about that. This film shows it in a way that refuses 2 allow u an easy, laid-back time of it. U are drawn in2 the film right from the off (that is, if u are still watching it after the opening 10mins...) I cant believe 4 a minute anybody who tells me that a rape scene in a movie should be portrayed as easy or soothing - in real life it is anything but. Would we expect Spielberg 2 have shied away from portraying the horrors of the Shoa? No. Yet we see Ultra-violent movies released every week - with hyper-stylised murders and fight scenes, filmed 2 maximise the 'excitement/thrill' factors. Yet it is strange that we refuse 2 accept the gritty, realistic portrayal of something as human and horrific as rape.

I personally DONT think the violence was gratuitous because of what the film is attempting 2 portray. It's not a spectacle - it is an ORDEAL. The films strength and power comes from the very fact that it simply refuses 2 be ambiguous in any way, shape or form.

I can understand why some people may not get Irreversible - it certainly isnt a film that many are going 2 want 2 experience 4 sure. But it IS one of those rare films that comes along with something increadibly powerful 2 say - and will illicit immensely strong feelings from those for and those against.

It a positive thing 2 be challenged as apposed 2 being apathetic and slurping on your Coca-Cola.

Anyone 4 coffee?
*time-2-lighten-the-mood-upinhah-methinx-edit!*

bananacologne said:

Hmmm...not sure if you're directing your post in its entirety at me and what I said, or just speaking of your opinions in general? Either way, I just want you to know that I am the last person to shrink from reality or believe that life is more beautiful than it is. I'm a social worker who has worked in the fields of Domestic Violence and Rape Crisis, in addition to my current field of Maternity Support. So that means that I've helped women who've been brutalized in so many ways, physical and psychological, that it can be overwhelming at times.

Examples: a woman whose karate-expert boyfriend left her entire body as one big bruise; another whose boyfriend anally raped her with a Windex and Coke bottle; another whose scalp had to be stapled shut; another who was pregnant and beaten to a bloody pulp...I didn't just watch them on a screen in a film--they were in my face, breathing, crying, talking and relying on me to help them. Currently, I work with a large number of refugee families from Africa and Iraq who were methodically tortured in prisons and/or lived in refugee camps under appalling conditions in order to escape massacre. I work with women who've had much of their genitals removed, due to their cultural beliefs, and have a difficult time having sex at all, even consensually with their husbands. These examples are only a few from literally thousands of situations I've personally been involved in.

My point, which perhaps I should've been more clear about in the beginning, is this: I don't need to see this film in order to truly be awakened or feel and understand the horror of rape/brutality, and the spiral of revenge, and the way it destroys lives. Perhaps some people do need to see this film and be "shocked" out of their comfortable existences, I will definitely give you that. But I hope you understand that some of us know it only too well and can say they would find such a portrayal gratuitous and not helpful to their spirit.

AnotherLoverToo said:

U have answered my point succinctly, thanku.
I also tried my best 2 put across that no, it ISNT a film 4 everyone. Like many things, it's relative I guess.

your last point however...? Trust me, just cuz Im Male doesnt mean I dont know about these things either - I hope U understand that also.

Now...what about that coffee?

bananacologne said:

When I say "some of us", I don't mean male or female--I purposely kept it gender-neutral for that reason. Men are also horribly abused, and it's vastly underreported due to cultural taboos. My professional experience has been limited to working primarily with women and children, although I have several male friends who were also horribly assaulted/raped/abused. I meant those of "us" who have personal experience, or help others get through those experiences, may have valid reason to avoid these types of films because we've learned the "lesson" long ago.

I run across naive, head-in-the-sand folks everyday who frustrate me--and I wish some of them would see this film. I do understand what you're saying, I think, bananacologne. I guess I was just trying to say that not wanting to see a film like this doesn't automatically mean that I (or others) "don't get" it or are "apathetic" and "slurping our Coca Cola". Those labels rubbed me the wrong way.

Thanks!

I'm still recovering from 'requiem for a dream' and I saw that film in February. While I did appreciate that movie and I still think that it is an excellent movie that should be seen, at times a feel like the movie manipulated the viewer into feeling a certain way. I guess this could be said about all movies but the ones that are so brutally honest and graphic in their portrayal of some of life's saddest events seem to do this to the point of annoyance, in my opinion. It seems like this movie, 'irreversible' would also use that same kind of manipulation that I just don't appreciate.

For example,what QstnOfU said about the movie using low frequency humming during the rape scene to make people feel physically ill is a form a manipulation that is gratuitous and unneccessary. I think that anybody watching such a scene would feel physically ill regardless of the special sound effects that the movie used and the fact that the movie wants to intensify that sickening feeling is just plain cruel and manipulative.


Although I do think that it is important that film like this are made I definitely feel that life can be brutal enough at times without having it compounded by horrific screen images.

Thanx everyone 4 your feedback on this. NOT the easiest of subjects 2 discuss - even on the internet, but it's been interesting 2 read everybodies opinions on the film, and it's handling of the subject matter. Dont get me wrong - I dont go OUT of my way 2 search out these films and watch them, but occasionaly one comes along and I feel drawn 2 it 4 the experience. I've always been an 'experience' kinda guy - I like being moved.
It's just a very hard thread I guess 2 post any kind of reply without feeling that u are belittling someone elses opinions. Not my intention at all. Hard and harsh subject, but It's a good that this thread didnt descend in2 a flame war - 4 that alone we shoul all be quite proud - a 1st 4 the org on SUCH a serious matter???

Now...u want this bloody coffee or what? It's gettin cold

Of course, I'll join you in some coffee--but at this hour, it should probably be decaffeinated

Cheers!

Goddamn, Nana - I wanna see that movie. And then I wanna have some coffee with you afterwards and talk about it.

You sweet thang.

I saw Requiem for a Dream my last day in Hollywood...and goddamn if that wasn't exactly what I needed to see. Let's just say I can really relate to Jennifer Connelly's character.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but fuggit.