FlyingCloudPassenger said:

that's your first problem. see, it is possible to have a thought that is wrong. that is why one must think before they speak, or write, so to speak, and not just spout off the first thought that comes to mind, which is basically what you are admitting to.

worse than that, you then refuse to think about what you have written after it has been criticized with logic that proves your argument null and void, which is the true sign of ignorance.

most people don't mind if you get something wrong the first time, alot of people don't get things right the first time, it's when someone refuses to correct or even admit their mistakes that bothers people, and is how you will be judged.

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

i don't know which computer prince uses now to record/edit.
if i had to guess i would say a mac since he has been doing a lot of editing with pro tools. most professional studios usually use pro tools on a mac platform.

as far as latency, glitches, etc...that can happen with analog gear as well as i am sure you know. system tweaking? have you ever had to calibrate a 2inch tape deck before? or have you ever had to flatten a room before? apparently not.

your arguments just don't hold water with me.

Hey, since this discussion has apparently shut out the non-musicians among us, isn't this in the WRONG FORUM now?

mcmeekle said:

"Aww nah mf's! Not today!"

Let me reset my hijacked thread...

Here we go:

A musical instrument is a device that creates sound...music...music...and it's purpose is solely to create MUSIC.

In retrospect...yes, it can be a tool, but, really now, that makes it sound so cold and utilitarian doesn't it?

Now, a tool, just helps you get something done...DONE.

I'm not going to define things with dictionaries, it is what it is.

No, this is not an argument about if analog is better than digital, no. It's NOT an argument about artsies and they're ludidited ways and philosophies, no. It's NOT about holding water or who knows how to calculate or calibrate tapes or move rooms, or for that matter, who codes or who uses which platform.

No the argument is about how computers can subversively become the primary enthusiasm over creativity.

Got that children?

I admit, I might have sounded snobby-ish, oh well.

With this thread my hope was...is that some can be offered a new way or DIFFERENT of thinking about or viewing the computer.

It's like a red flag thread if you will.

We can get (yes, I include meself) get caught up in all the marketed and "Latest Fashion" of technology and put creativity on the back burner.

Listen to the latest popular music. Technology driven rather than Soul driven.

Take TV, people are dependant of it. Emotionally chained to it, enslaved by it. Red flag!

THAT...is the purpose of my thread.

BUT, certain people either cannot deal with this red flag and try to diminish the purpose of it. Derail it with put downs.

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

so can a guitar, or any other musical "instrument," so once again, that leaves your argument nowhere. it's a semantical issue you have raised because musical creativity needs no instrument or tool or whatever you want to address them as.

so in closing, child, your quote above contradicts your own point.

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

then I guess I don't really understand the purpose of this thread

MissCute said:

Read the post two posts above.

dumbass said:

Eff you in closing. Don't close nothing for me. You're one of those who just wants to come out on top, okay, you smart.

Now, explain, without trying to shoot down what I write, HOW any other musical "instrument" can over take the enthusiasm and purpose of making music and creativity?

If that happens then YES! Eureka! There is no other way to just obsess over the instrument unless you PLAY IT!

Anyway, this is my last response to you Dumbass.

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

how about a response to my last post.
i am very curious to see how you defend yourself based on what i said earlier.

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

last post or first post, it doesn't matter, you still haven't said anything of any meaning.

it's not about coming out on top, it's about continually refutting your asinine comments. you had an idea and you posted it, but it is wrong. like I said, it's not a big deal, just admit after further thought your argument was false instead of continually defending it, because all you are doing is digging yourself a deeper hole.

I record and edit my music by utilizing my computer. (tool)
I write and create my music on my keyboards and synths. (musical instrument)

I know there are virtual instruments, but I can't get into that, even though you need a midi keyboard to control the sounds. Would it be the same? I don't know. The problem is, if the computer crashes, you got no sounds. If you use a musical instrument, you can still play it without the computer.

My

VinaBlue said:

There you go! You see, you can still play your instrument. No crashes.

No I'm not going to respond to the others. I restarted my thread. This is not an discussion about MY grammer.

Okay now, I have to add that, sure, software creating, is a creative process. And that's great! Because the computer is meant for that. There's a focus there.

Let me give all ya'lls two other prospectives from experience.

In Graphic Design, I've found that many designers become overzealous and enthusiastic about the tool over the profession. Tool being the computers, desktop, laptop, and the Operating System, the software and lose focus on finding design solutions, they put creativity on the backburner so to speak.

Design, their primary objective is LEAD by the tool, rather than by the IDEA, the mind.

There are professional designers, art directors, that design WITHOUT the computer. Yes. I've worked and seen them. There ideas are fresher, livelier, solutions are great! Why because the focus is on the creative process, not on the processor.

In popular music this could happen...

Here's my second, I've seen many a music student, enroll in a desktop music production class, and get completely convoluted, confused and tied up in OS and computer issues, and never get any thing done. If they do end up with something, it was so complicated and frustrating (dealing with computer issues in software and hardware), that really the end result seems so indicative of what the computer ruled you to do. In other words, the finished song or project has no potential. And yes, some of these students are very talented.

I think it's that it's like a technology trap. You want to use the latest and greatest exciting trend in music production, but it ends up tying you all up.

It's like the use of the computer with it's complications leads the artist the wrong path.

Some realize this and just go back to the dedicated hardware way, meaning, a multitracker or setup that's SOLE purpose and means of getting something done is musical.

No emailing programs or browsers to distract you, no operating system to learn.

Sure some modern day DEDICATED musical production equipment can be complicated.

But the test of a great INSTRUMENT, because that's what you would call a synth, is how fast you get to being INSPIRED, how fast you get to creating.

I think that if you observe how music was recorded in the past, before computers, you have to admit, the music is better. Whatever format too, Jazz, Rock, Mariachi's, Salsa, Classical to a certain extent, Blues, etc.

Mind you that yes computers have given artists the power to do what could of been done in expensive studios just years ago which is fabulous(!), but so can dedicated music production equipment, which I think keeps you in focus, on the music.

VinaBlue said:

That article seems ...mmm... superficial at best. Besides, talking about audio and not mentioning Apple computers is a nono

SpcMs said:

Whatever. I started on a MacSE30 and now I use a PC. Big deal. This article helped me understand my system and be able to record and edit my music on it. Again, someone can have all the latest and "best" equipment and not have any inspiration or ability to write a good song.

Maybe the article focused on PC recording because Mac recording is so easy and perfect. Yeah right.

VinaBlue said:

And I will add to this that in ancient times, none of this was necessary. Sing. That's music. People clapped their hands. Then they created drums. We have evolved and advanced. Yes, I mainly use a synth and people sometimes frown upon it. They don't like the sound and want to hear "real" instruments. There is a balance. I'd like some real instruments too! But I also love the other-worldliness of electronic sounds.

The point I think FCP is trying to make, is that if you take all that away, is it still a good song? Or is it dependent on the computer? Like Tori and Bjork: They use both acoustic, electric and electronic instruments, and their songs can be reduced to just the vocal and a piano accompaniment and it's still a beautiful and magical experience.

Peace,
Vina

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

this is why you have no argument, because the same can be said about one's dependency on musical instruments. what if someone hears tunes in their head but doesn't know how to play an instrument and he wastes his time learning guitar but never gets it and thus never accomplishes getting the music out. maybe he should have just hummed the tune.

your argument was against the computers but, but it applies to musical instruments as well, so you have no argument. ignore this fact if you like, but it's a fact.

if you are trying to say people forget about the creation of the art by being dependent on the "tool," the same can be said for their dependency on the "instrument." this isn't about your grammar, that's why you don't get it and nver will. so keep your head in the cloud, maybe it makes sense up there.

VinaBlue said:

exactly. this is what Cloud boy doesn't get, his argument applies to all musical instruments and tools, from piano to computer, yet he wants to discriminate against some and ignore others. the flaw is obvious to everyone but him so he tries to divert the argument as a matter of grammar and other irrelevent factors, which he also does not understand.

Wrong forum.

minneapolisgenius said:

Right. I have to ask one of the moderators to move this over to the musicians forum or restart a new one.

why are you ignoring me?
you have no response?
figures.

djdredd said:

Figures what? Just chill, I may respond, I may not, busy you know...peace.

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

chill?

you start this bs discussion and when people challenge you you tell them to chill? i dont care if you respond or not.
by you ignoring my post let's me know all i need to know about you and your knowledge of music and recording (both analog and digital).

you have no valid response. you opened up a can of worms, got called out for it and now you can't defend yourself. it's ok though.

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

OK HERE POOK GO

IF IF NOT INSTRUMENT IF YOU NEED POWER

WHAT ABOUT ELECTRIC GUITAR?

THAT NOT REAL INSTRUMENT?

AND PEOPLE GET CONFUSED ON COMPUTER

AND GET CONFUSED AT BOARD WITH MILLION KNOB TOO!

THAT WHY BAND GET ENGINEER

YES SOMETIME COMPUTER ERASE FILE

AND SOMETIME TAPE MACHINE EAT TAPE

SO WHAT YOU SAY

EVEN THOUGH LENNY PLAY ALL INSTRUMENT ON 5

AND WRITE ALL SONG ON 5

AND SING ALL PART ON 5

IT NOT REAL BECAUSE HE USE COMPUTER?

YOU NOT MAKE LOT OF SENSE

AND YOU SPELL GRAMMAR WRONG

BY WAY

EVERYONE LOOK AT FLYINGCLOUDPASSENGER HOBBY ON PROFILE

IF YOU UNPLUG ELECTRONIC DRUM

IT NOT DRUM!

THAT LONGEST POOK POST EVER MAYBE

NOW POOK SLEEPY

BYE BYE