ian said:

Once again, we are in 100% agreement.

IceNine said:

A good point. What about really rare songs they don't release in the area you live?

SuperC said:

The $3 that you mention is for manufacturing and packaging... the problem is that the band needs to be paid, the band's managers and lawyers need to be paid, the label wants their massive cut, they have to pay for graphic artists, photographers, producers, engineers, studio time, mastering, promotion, lawyers, videos, etc.

There are a LOT of people being paid by the sale of CDs.

SuperC said:

I just search forever and find a disc of them and spend WAAAY too much money on them. I have never downloaded albums or anything... I can't get into it.

I can certainly see downloading material that is totally out of print and not available for purchase and I don't see any big issue there.

I totally agree when it's an artist I like and deem worthy but when the music sucks it's a fair game way of try before you buy to me, especially if the artist is rich. So no consistency here.

CDs are vastly overpriced while greed and curiousity prompts the occasional file download with no expense paid...

IceNine said:

Right, rare music and unreleased live material or are you anti-bootlegs too?

IceNine said:

How much should a band be paid for a cd? Remember if a CD sells 500,000( and that's usually done in the first month) copies that's 1.5 million at 3.00 a cd. Every dollar added brings an extra half mill to the plate. How much should a cd cost?

SuperC said:

My last band got fucked and only recouped at $1.00 per copy sold... this is actually pretty common.

I honestly think that a CD should cost about $10 and the artist should recoup at around $2.50 per copy at least.

Advances:
Advance amounts used in the M.A.R.C. should include all monies given directly to the artist. (Except royalties). On major labels, typical Advances are $250,000 for each of the first 2 albums, $350,000 for the third and $500,000 for each album beyond that. You will have to produce your album out of this money. This will likely absorb 90% of the Advance. If you want to calculate for one album, enter $250,000. For two albums, enter $500,000, for three albums, $850,000, and so on. Independent label Advances are typically between $5,000 and $50,000 per album.

Retail Price of Record (SRLP):
Whether you are calculating for a major label or for an indie label deal, you will need to calculate an average of CDs --to --cassette tape & 12" vinyl sales. Cassettes and 12" vinyl still make up about 25% of world wide sales for major label artists and will generally sell for about $8.98. Regardless of the fact that many CDs, at time of release, have a list price of $17.98, most CDs really sell for the marked down list price of $12.98. For this reason $11.98 is selected for you, because it is a close approximation of the weighted average of what a combination of CD, cassette tapes and 12" vinyl record will sell for. If you are calculating for an independent record deal, which is usually about 90% CD sales and 10% cassettes & 12" vinyl, use $13.98 as a base. If you are calculating for Super Star status on a major use $17.98.

If your sales statistics don't figure into these pre-packaged percentages and you want to figure out your own weighted average, here's the equation:


Let "X" = the percentage of CDs sales.

[(.X) (price of CD)] + [ (1 - .X) (average price of cassettes & 12" Vinyl)] = weighted average price of unit sale.

Example: [(.75) ($12.98)] + [ (.25) ($8.98)] = $11.97 (closest button - $11.98)

Artist Royalty:
Many record contracts may say that the label is giving you a 15% royalty or higher, but there are hidden deductions, usually called "new technology adjustments," that will invariably bring it down to 12%. The trend is moving away from this deduction since CDs are no longer considered "new," but this deduction still appears in many contracts. Only artists with proven track records maintain a royalty higher than 12%, therefore, 12% is selected for you.

Promotion Money:
On a major label deal, the promotion budget will typically be about $500,000. Therefore this is selected for you. If you want special packaging, posters, limos to the Grammy's, or there has been a bidding war for your contract, they may give you more; maybe $750,000 per record. But remember, the more they spend, the more you owe. Indie promotion ranges from $25,000 to $50,000 per record. If you have a Pressing and Distribution deal with a label (where they only distribute the CD for you and do no promotion) then select $0.00.

Producer's Royalty:
Producers get between 3% or 4% for most projects. The important element is if they are paid from "record one." This means that the producer gets his royalty as records sell (from the first record sold) and does not have to wait for the record company to recoup of all the money spent on the artist before they start paying royalties. A "record one royalty" is the most common for a new artist, so "yes" is clicked for you. If the artist is established and the producer is looking for his break, then click "no."

Packaging Deductions:
ALL major labels, and 90% of the independents, charge the artist for the record's packaging, which includes the liner notes. Typically, it's 25% of the retail list price of CDs and 20% of Tapes and LPs. Everyone knows that this is absurdly high, but only super stars seem to be able to get this reduced. 23.75% is selected for you because it is the weighted average for a major label deal where you are likely sell a ratio of 75%:25% CDs to tapes/12" vinyl. For an independent deal, where you more likely to see a ratio of 90%:10% CD to tapes/12" vinyl, 24.5% is the weighted average. 25% should be used for CDs only, such as P&D (Pressing & Distribution) deals and 20% for tapes only. In rare super star contracts the packaging deduction is reduced to 18% or waived completely.

Percentage of Sales Paid:
Until you are established, most label contracts have a series of deductions that pay you on only 80% of actual sales. Some deals say 80% for the first record and 90% for the second. Some artists get 100% of sales after they sell over 1.5 Million units.

Breakage:
Breakage is a left over scam from the old days when vinyl records were fragile and crumbled while shipping. The label would not pay the artist for broken records and so they estimated the "breakage" at 10% and deducted it from the amount of records sold. They still deduct this 10%, even though CDs are made of an almost indestructible material. When you are established you can get this thrown out and get a 0% deduction for breakage. Indie's routinely waive this deduction, but majors don't, so 10% is clicked for you.

Essence said:

Bootlegs do not take money away from the artist and I am not against them if they are traded. I do not support companies making money from the work of an artist without authorization, but trading live shows, etc. is fine in my books, as long as the material is not officially released. I just don't see the harm there.

IceNine said:

The people getting phucked are the ones closest to the music(the musician) and the ones furthest from it(the comsumer).
Got to eliminate the middle man. Somebody is getting outrageously rich off of both ends.

SuperC said:

You are correct... I have been signed a few times and have never recouped. The fact is that you need to sell at least 500,000 copies in order to accomplish that feat.

IceNine said:

Sell them out your trunk. Alot of artist did this and made a ton. With filesharing you might have to "give" an album away to get a following. Shit i wish i was your manager, i have you sold all over the coast :LOL:

im sorry but some of u are full of shit...i can care less bout file sharing...i have music downloaded and i buy music. apparently the court of law says that kazaa is cool. statement came out monday...

all of u complaining about im sure have shared one time or another...maybe not online..but by asking ur friend to make u a copy of a cd or tape or movie..?? dont say u havent either because then u would just be a liar.

besides who are u to cry about it? are u losing money??

File sharing is theft.

IceNine said:

Ice did you ever try the trunk route? Or did you have a record deal right off the bat?

SuperC said:

We didn't go the selling out of the trunk route, but we did do an independent local release... then we played a lot of shows, got a management agency to work with us and ended up signing. It takes a little while to get signed and a lot of work... the trunk route is not very effective for rock bands for some reason. We sold a lot of discs at shows and stuff, but we never made a ton off of them.

IceNine said:

It's funny because marketing is 9/10 of the sucess. Somehow you have to be heard and passed around. Although with this generation basic marketing won't work. You have to have an angle that makes you stand out. And power behind you so that once that fire is lit, the flame doesn't go out for a long time.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

Damn! Remind me to add you to my favorite orgers list!

Used to be a time that if you liked a song that you heard on the radio, you could go to Record World and buy a vinyl single for $2.49...and even get a treat on the other side. You could listen to it a few dozen times, listen to the other side a few times as well, and decideif you want to buy the artist's LP.

But no more. CD singles are hard to find and usually almost as much as the album itself. Nowadays the record companies want to force-feed entire albums that most of the time wind up being nothing more than filler material.

So, I download. I am not ahsamed. It's no different than borrowing a buddy's LP and taping a favorite song off of it.

I do NOT go online to download whole albums. If I enjoy an artist's music enough to want to listen to ALL that they offer...I buy the CD. And usually by the time I decide that I want a particular album, it's available on BMG.

Like anything else at our disposal (alcohol, food, religion)...file sharing is just fine when used in moderation.

PurpleJedi said:

Try before you buy is okay as long as you don't use it as a substitute for actually buying the product if you like it.

I am a self-admitted thief and I don't give a fuck!

Natsume said:

:LOL:

LOVER said:

Right, unless you own NO video copies of copyrighted material, NO photocopies of copyrighted text, no tape/CD copies of copyrighted music and not one MP3 of copyrighted music I don't understand how you can take the high road on this issue AND be consistent?

Essence said:

There are some of us who actually do go out and buy everything that we like and do not harbor illegal copies. Friends have made copies of things for me and I will always buy the real thing if I like it. I am not saying that everyone would do this, but I don't think that it is too much to spend to support artists that you like. I just go to CD Universe or Amazon and spend $12 or so... it is not too much to pay and the artist gets their money. I would never buy discs from Sam Goody, Musicland or any of those other joints that charge $18 or so per disc, but I will support the artists online and I will buy direct when I can. I recently purchased the new Zeke CD directly from them... of course it hasn't arrived yet, but you get the point.

its theft so im a thief. oh well

still bloody useful though

File-sharing IS wrong,but let's face it,there's nothing that can be done about it.It's reality.As long as we're living in the computer/Internet era,people are gonna download songs and share files.Artists are just gonna have to adapt to it,and find ways to become a part of it.


As for the record companies...screw them! Who cares if they lose money? They have no problem ripping the fans AND their artists off so why should we care if their profits are low as a result of file-sharing?

DavidEye said:

I agree... fuck the record companies, but the problem is that fucking the record companies fucks the artists as well... we KNOW that the record companies will take their money first.

Ian

I know some recording artists here (Netherlands), they ALL say 85% of their income is by performing, 15% of CD sales.
In that respect ppl downloading ARE boycotting the record comps.
my