I have a few words to say about downloading songs and albums on the internet and not paying the musicians who wrote and recorded them:

FUCK THAT HORSESHIT

Those who lamely try to defend "file sharing" would cry a fucking river if their employers decided not to pay them for their work, yet they will stand up and say that musicians are whining or crying because they stand up and say that they don't like people pirating their music and stealing their royalty money.

File "sharing" is nothing more or less than theft.


....
[This message was edited Tue Apr 29 17:13:11 PDT 2003 by IceNine]

Hell yeah

Half the time you only get half the song (if it's the correct one to start with) And MP3 quality is only good from about 256k up. No one saves thir files that high on the net.
[This message was edited Tue Apr 29 16:36:20 PDT 2003 by CAMILLE4U]

Pay for your music you cheapskates!

:I: :I:

i've never understood the point of file sharing m'damn self..."u can get it on kazaa!"

phuc that, whatever happened 2 the original p2p...trading via mail? hell, go shop 4 vinyl instead...s'cheaper.


phuc file-sharing!!!



.....and phuc this edit!
[This message was edited Tue Apr 29 16:44:55 PDT 2003 by Handclapsfingasnapz]

SuperC said:

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

:I: :I: :I: :I:
Oh and by the way. My desktop is packed with shit. All kinds of music and movies

you can buy at

SuperC said:

:I: :I: :I: :I: :I: :I: like u very much.

CAMILLE4U said:

Hey you skipped :I: :I: :I: :I:

the record companies has been rippings off artist for yrs yrs and now that downloading music has come along, I say The Record companies are getting a piece of their own medicine... People feel ripped off, buying a $17 full CD when all you really wanted was two or three tracks, then you have a collection of CD you didn't really want collecting dust and you all fail to realize that you can't take CD's or Cassettes back after you opened and purchased, it ain't like you can listen to the CD, decide you don't like then take it back to the store. Naw it don't work that way, you buy the CD, it sucks then you're stuck with it, which is a damn shame, which is why I like the ideal of downloading music... Truthfully, the only people who are actually suffering from low record sales are the big excutives of the record companies, the artist will get paid regardless because of the contract they signed and if they don't then once again the artist will be getting ripped off, by the big excutes once again ... damn Shame

DigitalLisa said:

Answer : let artist sell to fan. Simple. Prince should try it

SuperC said:

DigitalLisa said:

CDs being overpriced is not a valid excuse for stealing music. If I can't afford a CD, or if I think it is bad value for money, I do without. Nothing "entitles" me to a piece of music. If you want the music, the people responsible for putting it together deserve to get paid.

People don't steal music for some higher purpose, to get back at greedy record companies. They do it because they want something for nothing.

If you think CDs are overpriced, or that record companies are terrible, vote with your wallet and just boycott their products. At least then you retain the moral high ground. However using that line as an excuse to steal music is just laughable.

ian said:

Ian!

That's what I'm talking about!!!

For the record - I have no love for record companies or their business practices. Quite a lot of what they do, and the way they lobby government etc is despicable. However it takes many people and lots of money to produce the shiny CD product that you see on the shelves of your local record store. These people need to get paid, or else the industry can't sustain itself.

I'm all for seeing the industry evolve and distributing music online, but not like the common "steal all you want, it's okay you are just stealing from big faceless corporations!" bullshit attitude.

That said, I'm not against filesharing. For fan stuff, unreleased material, stuff that is out of print... I see nothing really wrong with fans sharing that music with each other. If you can't buy it in the shops, I see no harm in fans swapping music online.

Honestly?

I download music. Yup.

Primarily I download stuff that's hard to find - old novelty songs people have uploaded, old commercial jingles, rare recordings that somehow wind up on Kazaa and the like.

Lotsa folks upload their homemade remixes of pop songs I like, and I love hearing what they do with the music. They're just experiments created by kids in their bedrooms, but lots of 'em are damn cool.

So I guess if I wanted to, I could say I only used P2P download sites for things I couldn't find in a wrecka stow or even on eBay.

And even though that's MOSTLY true, it's not ENTIRELY true.

Sometimes, I'll download a song or two from an album I've been thinking about buying. I'll burn 'em to disc, live with 'em for a while, and if I like 'em enough, I'll buy the album. If not, I toss the CD-R, delete the files, and go on about my business.

I agree that the music industry's been ripping us off. I also agree that downloading has been a challenge to artists' profits.

I also like owning music that I can hold in my hands, with cover art and lyric sheets and liner notes. But then, I also like owning music that I LIKE.

When Clear Channel lets up on radio and I can use that as a medium for hearing cool new music, I'll quit checking out Kazaa.

When the music industry lets up on ridiculous twenty dollar list prices for single-CD releases, I'll quit checking out Kazaa.

When artists start figuring out how to dance around assbaskets like the major labels and Clear Channel, and get their music out there for us to sample and get excited about, then I'll quit checking out Kazaa.

I'm always gonna buy albums by my favorite artists - I'd never dream of downloading a Prince, Bowie or Nick Cave album - but if some hot new band is gonna expect me to shell out eighteen bucks for their debut album, I can't afford not to give it a bit of a preview first, thanks.

Instead of alienating potential fans and consumers by tut-tutting filesharing as a no-no, labels and artists should be manipulating filesharing by putting stuff on Kazaa and P2P sites that'll get folks excited about new releases - outtakes, non-album tracks, covers, live tracks - stuff that's just sitting around on shelves anyway - and maybe even create a mentality among fans that the more CDs a band sells, the more free shit that band is able to throw out on the Internet. Filesharing could easily replace videos as the marketing prize du jour if folks would only embrace the medium instead of beating it with clubs and rocks.

Just my opinion - if ya wanna burn me at the stake, bring marshmallows.



These edits are share-protected.
[This message was edited Tue Apr 29 17:24:29 PDT 2003 by Anxiety]

ian said:

Basically, it's a hustle in everything you do and music is one of them. I don't sale the music I download I just download them and keep them on files. I mean I have alot of stuff I wouldn't have or couldn't find in yrs, plus not to mention that most music sucks these dayz, I heard somebody say prt of the reason why music today is failling in sales is not because of downloading music, but it's because the record companies are not producing any good music and there fore I download and If I like more then one track, I will actually buy the whole CD, But if it's only one or two songs I like then I will keep it on my files

ian said:

actually I think it only cost like a dollar or something to make a whole CD, then they charge the public unpronuocable number, just like nike shoes, it only cost like five dollars to make the whole shoe, then they charge us 125 and plus the stores they sale it two charge add own to the price so it's just a big mess We all are ripping each other off

Anxiety said:

Anx

U took the words right outta my mouth...



..musta bin while U were kissing me.

Anxiety said:

I can agree with you... you are doing things in a responsible manner. You don't just go out searching for songs and bragging that you have stolen 30,342 songs, as if you are some sort of bigshot because of it.

You have an ethical principle behind your downloading... if you like the songs, you will buy the disc. This is honorable. Those who go out, download tons of albums and giggle because they are getting it "free" are full of shit. What these mental giants don't get is that the music industry WILL try to make their money back in some way... if that means dropping tons of artists who don't fit the multi-platinum mold, then so be it... they will do what makes them money.

If you want to help a band go broke, download their music and don't buy their albums... they will be dropped soon enough and they can get a job somewhere and give up on music.

FUCK INTERNET MUSIC THEFT.

DigitalLisa said:

That makes no sense. What you are buying when you buy a CD is a lot more than the actual physical materials in the disk. It doesn't matter if it costs $1 to physically manufacture a CD - that has no bearing on the fact that getting a album off the drawing board and onto the shelf of your local record store costs millions. There's all the production staff, the artists, the engineers etc... then there is graphic designers, manufacturing, publishers, distribution, retail, marketing... it all costs money.

And at the end of it you end up with a CD. If you like the music and the entertainment it provides you with, it has a perceived value which is far greater than the $1 it may have cost to manufacter the disk, because presumably you'll place some value on the contents - the music, the lyrics, the cover art and packaging etc.

And of course there is the risk inherent in the industry... like movies, very few of them actually make money, or even cover costs. The industry relies on the big successes to pay for all the risk-taking and the failures.

My point is - CDs are overpriced, but they are worth a lot more than $1 or whatever it costs to manufacture a disk.

IceNine said:[quote]

Anxiety said:

I think before we can get our pitchforks and torches out of the toolshed and bumrush "internet music thieves", we have to define more clearly what this kind of theft is, and why we're defining it that way. It's not such a simple thing to do.

We're talking about an industry that is making theft arguably justifiable, not just from a business angle, but from an artistic perspective. Sorry, but I'm not gonna buy filler and crap. To quote Dana Carvey quoting the Great George Bush The First, "NAH. GAH. DAH." (that's "not gonna do it" to you and me.)

And to a generation of kids weaned on Britney and NSTYNC, who were brought up on singles-oriented albums instead of album-oriented pop music, selling a whole album so you can get one or two hot songs is a hard damn sell. But that's the monster that's been created, and now it's come back to bite the industry in the ass. And so it goes.

Does that make it right to take money out of the hands of bands that are actually GOOD and deserve to make a living for their quality recordings? No. But is this a call for the industry and its artists to attract more flies with honey than vinegar and come up with positive reinforcement ideas for folks to invest in buying albums? Yup.

I don't see the way I acquire music as ethical - I just see it as what makes most sense to me. Give me the best options, and I'll go with 'em. If I can show support to my favorite artists at the same time, then great.

ian said:

I do that(in a way). Hey when a good product comes out i pay. I mostly use it for rare stuff as i bought most of the stuff years back on vinyl. And why are you protecting the rich? Sometime in the not too distant future it will be told that price fixing was going on and that we had been taken advantage of. When they play fair, we play fair.

One thing I do agree with though...

CDs are very expensive. And since they are so expensive, it makes sense for people to know what they are buying. I don't see a big problem with people downloading one or two tracks as a "taster" when deciding whether or not to buy an album. Consumers have a right to know what they are spending their money on...

I download lots of music: mainly out of print stuff. I do go to allmusic.com or songsearch.net first to see if the songs are still in print. In certain cases, I will download music before I buy it, such as Thicke's new album. In Prince's case...no comment.

SuperC said:

I'm not protecting anyone... I've no doubt the music industry is a scam. However I just believe that if you really have a problem with the record company, you should boycott their products. I don't see the fact that CDs are expensive as a valid excuse for stealing music...

I think Ferrari's are very expensive and overpriced, and I can't afford them. But I'm not about to go out and steal one because I suspect the motor industry is price-fixing etc.

Ultimately it comes down to this: someone creates a product, and sells it at a particular price. If you want the product, and you can afford it, and you feel it is worth the asking price, you buy it. If not, then you don't. We're talking about luxury items here - CDs - not penecillin or baby milk or something.

People who steal copyrighted music online are not doing it out of any desire to "punish" the record industry or to make a point - they are doing it because they want something for nothing.

IceNine said:

I do courtesy stuff all the time. I just need enough money to live. I don't need to hoar millions off of people.
I'm a people person. You know prices are fixed in the industry. $16.00 for something that cost $3.00 tops to make.

ian said:

That's the American way. That's why there are so many Lawyers in court sueing for their client being stupid or weak(mcdonalds fat lawsuit). Trust me i joined the Princes club this year. Because the price was right. To be honest any song he puts out in the club i could have in the same quality it came out in. But i respect his body of work as a whole and don't mind give a reasonable amount for something.


You should get what you pay for edit
[This message was edited Tue Apr 29 18:03:19 PDT 2003 by SuperC]