lust said:

How awful for all involved. Can someone explain what a prop gun is? I would have assumed that it’s not something that actually shoots bullets? [Edited 10/21/21 20:50pm]

My heart goes out to all involved.


Prop guns are toy guns that have to look like real guns. They are commonly used in movies, TV show, and other theatrical performances.

luv4u said:

Prop guns are obviously NOT toy guns or no one would have died. Here's an article: https://www.bbc.com/news/w...a-59006905

On October 12, 1984, the cast and crew of Cover Up were filming the seventh episode of the series, "Golden Opportunity", on Stage 17 of the 20th Century Fox lot. One of the scenes filmed that day called for Hexum's character to load bullets into a .44 Magnum handgun, so he was provided with a functional gun and blanks. When the scene did not play as the director wanted it to in the master shot, there was a delay in filming. Hexum became restless and impatient during the delay and began playing around to lighten the mood. He had unloaded all but one (blank) round, spun it, and—simulating Russian roulette—he put the revolver to his right temple and pulled the trigger,[6] apparently unaware of the danger.

[Edited 10/23/21 9:02am]

What the hell were real bullets doing in a prop gun? The same fiasco killed Brandon Lee, Bruce Lee's son.

purplethunder3121 said:

What the hell were real bullets doing in a prop gun? The same fiasco killed Brandon Lee, Bruce Lee's son.

Let's keep facts straight here.

There were no bullets in the gun that Alec Baldwin fired. That has been reported over and over already. This is not the same situation as Hexum.

A prop gun is still a gun made to fire, but that has blanks and gunpowder in it, but no projectiles. If you're within 20 feet of a gun loaded with blanks, you can be injured. Any of that smoke, powder, or muzzle flash could affect anyone or anything close when the gun fires. That comes from a gun expert in the business, not my summation.

Jon-Erik fired a gun with blanks at his head in a mock game of Russian roulette on a set, and accidentally killed himself.

The Brandon Lee situation was the one where a bullet ended up in the gun. I'm not sure how/why that happened.

How did the firing accident happen in this case with Baldwin? Well, we don't know. But the first thing I thought was that they were filming a scene, perhaps, where Alec was pointing the gun toward-ish the camera straight on. With the cinematographer being behind the camera, she was first in line when it fired. Same with the director if he was right there, too.

All these incidents are ridiculous and preventable.

Want to hear the sound of a gun firing, when it's not actually firing at all? Just overdub the sound effect. Want to mimic the effect of gun smoke? Use a smoke machine effect, or is that's not satisfactory CGI it.

fortuneandserendipity said:

All these incidents are ridiculous and preventable.

Want to hear the sound of a gun firing, when it's not actually firing at all? Just overdub the sound effect. Want to mimic the effect of gun smoke? Use a smoke machine effect, or is that's not satisfactory CGI it.

That's a simplistic answer. But let me expand a bit.

I worked in Hollywood, and smoke machines weren't used for guns. They're used to create smoke in a large area, mostly to pick up lighting, but also for mood and ambiance.

OF COURSE they're preventable. When they happen, that's why they're called accidents, not on purposes. These people don't just show up on a set with a gun and hope for the best. There are experts there, folks who have been in gun safety - specifically that of movie sets - for 30 or 40 years. Their job is to - wait for it - prevent accidents.

And most times they're going to overdub a gun sound anyway. Guns pop when they fire. The sound we think a gun makes is always an sound FX put on later. 85% of the sound you hear in a film or TV show is filtered, overdubbed, or otherwise laid in during foley.

Even foot steps that seems perfectly natural - it's some woman in her sweats with heels on in a studio walking across a slab of concrete or wood or whatever they're looking to achieve. That body falling and hitting the floor? Probably a bag of flour or sand dropped from about 5 feet and recorded on impact.

[Edited 10/22/21 13:19pm]

Tragic, RIP. The family must be devastated, as all involved would be.

Also, it is being reported to have been a "single, live round."

The prop gun actor Alec Baldwin discharged on set of the film "Rust" on Thursday, killing director of photography Halyna Hutchins and injuring director Joel Souza, contained a "live round," a union covering prop masters told its members.

The email from the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE) Local 44, seen by Indie Wire, called the incident an "accidental weapons discharge."

"A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza," the email said. "Local 44 has confirmed that the Props, Set Decoration, Special Effects, and Construction Departments were staffed by New Mexico crew members. There were no Local 44 members on the call sheet."

From an article on Yahoo.

PliablyPurple said:

TrivialPursuit said:

[Wrong forum for politics Snip - luv4u]

lust said:

Thanks for the explanation. That makes more sense than saying it’s a fake toy gun. To your later point re foley done in post, that’s also obvious. So why do they need blanks to fire at all? Must be pretty easy to add a muzzle flash (if I’m using the right gun jargon)

Yeah, no one's buying a toy gun at Toys R Us for a big budget movie.

The need for blanks is for the affect the gun has on a person. The kickback, the smoke, the muzzle flash, etc. It's easy to say "well just add it in post with CGI." But CGI costs a lot of money. To go into a film print, add computer generated imagery, and make it look real, then make a new print (or master) of that for the final editing and distribution... it's a lot of work that can be bypassed with just using a gun with blanks.

It's all very technical and gun technology has changed oodles over the decades making some things more realistic and genuine in films. But guns are guns, and there is always a danger factor in these things. Some directors like using more practical gags than CGI. The Saw movies used most all practical gag and stunts in the films. The guts and gore were real, not overlaid with a high end Apple computer. They worked to be sure blood splattering, brains exploding, or whatever were done right and done in one take (much like the old days of horror movies).

So I don't know what they did on Rust, but using a real gun with a blank isnt' unusual. Lightsabers - CGI. Guns in a western - real.

Fine, substitute the term "live round" for "bullet." The results are the same.

https://www.latimes.com/e...ed-off-set

purplethunder3121 said:

Fine, substitute the term "live round" for "bullet." The results are the same.

Yeah, for sure. It seems this is an evolving story. So those terms, I believe, are going to be crucial to the truth as it all unfolds.

onlyforaminute said:

hmm... Hours before...a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions. The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints of long hours and getting their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.

Allegedly a 19-year old with no prior experience was put in charge of the stunts.

Also Alec was allegedly a co-producer of the film, i.e. "the boss".

[Edited 10/22/21 16:00pm]

TrivialPursuit said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

All these incidents are ridiculous and preventable.

Want to hear the sound of a gun firing, when it's not actually firing at all? Just overdub the sound effect. Want to mimic the effect of gun smoke? Use a smoke machine effect, or is that's not satisfactory CGI it.

That's a simplistic answer. But let me expand a bit.

I worked in Hollywood, and smoke machines weren't used for guns. They're used to create smoke in a large area, mostly to pick up lighting, but also for mood and ambiance.

OF COURSE they're preventable. When they happen, that's why they're called accidents, not on purposes. These people don't just show up on a set with a gun and hope for the best. There are experts there, folks who have been in gun safety - specifically that of movie sets - for 30 or 40 years. Their job is to - wait for it - prevent accidents.

And most times they're going to overdub a gun sound anyway. Guns pop when they fire. The sound we think a gun makes is always an sound FX put on later. 85% of the sound you hear in a film or TV show is filtered, overdubbed, or otherwise laid in during foley.

Even foot steps that seems perfectly natural - it's some woman in her sweats with heels on in a studio walking across a slab of concrete or wood or whatever they're looking to achieve. That body falling and hitting the floor? Probably a bag of flour or sand dropped from about 5 feet and recorded on impact.

[Edited 10/22/21 13:19pm]

Oh I know that. But if they can put man on the moon in 1969 and today create semiconductor transistors 1,582487623000111 zillion times thinner than a human hair, then they can create a thinner nozzle for a smoke machine, or make it shoot out narrow.

.

[Edited 10/22/21 15:38pm]

WhisperingDandelions said:

EmmaMcG said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

Allegedly a 19-year old with no prior experience was put in charge of the stunts.

Also Alec was allegedly a co-producer of the film, i.e. "the boss".

[Edited 10/22/21 16:00pm]

Adam Baldwin is not Alec Baldwin's brother. Ah, I see you've edited your post as I was typing [Edited 10/22/21 16:05pm]

We're all brothers and sisters, Emmz.

WhisperingDandelions said:

EmmaMcG said:

WhisperingDandelions said: Adam Baldwin is not Alec Baldwin's brother. Ah, I see you've edited your post as I was typing

We're all brothers and sisters, Emmz.

If that's the case, who here has good insurance and a good credit rating? Because I need better coverage.

I've seen a lot of text messages and DMs from crew who walked off the set that day or the day before because of the lack of safety protocols. I thought there had been 2 other live rounds in a gun on set, which is 2 too many. Perhaps one of the walk-offs was the gun safety dept. We know that non-union members were called in to fill spots during this walk-out. And hell, apparently that could be just about anyone.

The producers weren't even getting some of the crew hotel rooms. They were either making them drive 4 hours to a decent hotel, or offered some road side motel, that was closer, but doubles as a homeless motel.

It's a low budget film and the crew wasn't happy. So - having said all I said earlier in the thread, it seems the details and truth of this whole situation is rapidly developing and coming to light. I'm just gonna wait it all out.