With you on this...

While I want to believe in this movie, that third one left a bad taste that I haven't been able to shake.

I never thought there would be another sequel, but here it is!

Kinda like the Terminator movies, it will never end with all those alternate 'verses.

DC, Marvel, Whatevah...

What about the rumors that the Wakowsi(sp) sisters stole the script?

I tend to believe there might be something there considering their inability to write anything good after that movie.

They do have directing flair though. But questionable choices.

CynicKill said:

nayroo2002 said:

S2DG said:

EmmaMcG said:

S2DG said:

With you on this...

While I want to believe in this movie, that third one left a bad taste that I haven't been able to shake.

A lot of it will depend on how they explain Trinity and Neo's return. If they can't come up with a believable explanation for how they come back from the dead then it won't matter what the rest of the movie is like.

My point from before was, now all sequels are ligit thanks to alternate universes/timelines/bullshit, etc.

This 'Matrix' looks great from all angles in trailer form.

i would definately pay for a cinema ticket.

I'm excited about it. A few things stood out:

There is a lot of blue and red symbolism in it.

Neo's psychiatrist (Neil Patrick Harris) has on blue-rimmed glasses, shows he's intent on Neo being pacified in the matrix.

The other Morpheus-inspired guy is wearing a red shirt: Showing his alertness to the matrix's existence.

Even one black woman (is she the Oracle) seems to be wearing dark red-rimmed glasses.

The new character with the rabbit tattoo, has blue hair, but is outside the matrix. Is she opposed to pulling people out of the matrix against their will? Is she just the blue-level helper than gets folks to the real world? I think she'll present an internal conflict.

A lot of shots really hearkened (hard) back to the first film. Jumping off a roof, the helicopter situation, what looks to be Trinity waking up from the matrix like Neo did (in the goo), etc. At first, I thought, "God, please don't let this just be a retelling of the first film."

The rubber duck could be a nod to rubber ducking, which is where a coder reads and explains his code line by line, to a rubber duck on their computer. Just so if they say it out loud, it makes sense to the ear, not just on the screen. Maybe not that, but possible.

And how is Neo and Trinity alive? Maybe their consciousness went back into the Matrix before they died? Neo was always a Christ-like character (like Aslan in The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe). So Resurrection makes sense for that, in title and deed.

In general, I'm very excited about it.

TrivialPursuit said:

EmmaMcG said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I'm excited about it. A few things stood out:

There is a lot of blue and red symbolism in it.

Neo's psychiatrist (Neil Patrick Harris) has on blue-rimmed glasses, shows he's intent on Neo being pacified in the matrix.

The other Morpheus-inspired guy is wearing a red shirt: Showing his alertness to the matrix's existence.

Even one black woman (is she the Oracle) seems to be wearing dark red-rimmed glasses.

The new character with the rabbit tattoo, has blue hair, but is outside the matrix. Is she opposed to pulling people out of the matrix against their will? Is she just the blue-level helper than gets folks to the real world? I think she'll present an internal conflict.

A lot of shots really hearkened (hard) back to the first film. Jumping off a roof, the helicopter situation, what looks to be Trinity waking up from the matrix like Neo did (in the goo), etc. At first, I thought, "God, please don't let this just be a retelling of the first film."

The rubber duck could be a nod to rubber ducking, which is where a coder reads and explains his code line by line, to a rubber duck on their computer. Just so if they say it out loud, it makes sense to the ear, not just on the screen. Maybe not that, but possible.

And how is Neo and Trinity alive? Maybe their consciousness went back into the Matrix before they died? Neo was always a Christ-like character (like Aslan in The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe). So Resurrection makes sense for that, in title and deed.

In general, I'm very excited about it.

Some good insight, there. The "Morpheus-inspired" guy is Morpheus. That's already been confirmed. So another question that arises from that is how are Neo and Trinity older (and alive) but Morpheus is younger? If Trinity and Neo's consciousness went back into the Matrix that doesn't explain how they're able to return to the real world. We see Trinity being "born" in the trailer but where does the body come from? Sure, they can make it up as they go along (and I think that's what they're doing, to be honest) and just give any excuse but I don't see how they can bring Neo and Trinity back without contradicting the previous movies.

How could Morpheus be alive? He died in the canon Matrix Online that's why Laurence Fishburne isn't returning.
Neo was supposed to come back, that;s the whole purpose of his sacrifice and Sati's question at the end of Revolutions.
I hope this one is better than the third that, of course, was butchered and destroyed by WB to wrap up a trilogy instead of the 6 movie arc the Wachowski's had in mind, with Zion being a next level of the Matrix (that's why Neo has the same powers in Zion ("outside" of the Matrix)

[Edited 9/10/21 4:10am]

JorisE73 said:

EmmaMcG said:

JorisE73 said:

How could Morpheus be alive? He died in the canon Matrix Online that's why Laurence Fishburne isn't returning.
Neo was supposed to come back, that;s the whole purpose of his sacrifice and Sati's question at the end of Revolutions.
I hope this one is better than the third that, of course, was butchered and destroyed by WB to wrap up a trilogy instead of the 6 movie arc the Wachowski's had in mind, with Zion being a next level of the Matrix (that's why Neo has the same powers in Zion ("outside" of the Matrix)

[Edited 9/10/21 4:10am]

Exactly. How can any of them be alive? Neo is dead. Trinity is dead. Morpheus is dead. And yet they're all back. Neo and Trinity are older and Morpheus is younger. They're going to have a lot of explaining to do.

The trailer makes it seem like its part rehash and part new, so maybe they are going for a Matrix within the Matrix thing. it looks good tho.

JorisE73 said:

EmmaMcG said:

https://m.youtube.com/wat...ix7TUGVYIo I'm not entirely convinced. On the one hand, it brings me back to my childhood. The original movie is one of my favourite sci fi movies of all time. But on the other hand, the sequels were fucking terrible so it remains to be seen how this one will turn out. Hopefully it can recapture what made the first one so good.

I hope it's better than part 2 & 3.

[Edited 9/10/21 10:38am]

EmmaMcG said:

Some good insight, there. The "Morpheus-inspired" guy is Morpheus. That's already been confirmed. So another question that arises from that is how are Neo and Trinity older (and alive) but Morpheus is younger? If Trinity and Neo's consciousness went back into the Matrix that doesn't explain how they're able to return to the real world. We see Trinity being "born" in the trailer but where does the body come from? Sure, they can make it up as they go along (and I think that's what they're doing, to be honest) and just give any excuse but I don't see how they can bring Neo and Trinity back without contradicting the previous movies.

I wasn't sure if it was Morpheus. Good to know.

So here's my thought about why Neo is older and doesn't necessarily know Trinity, and Morpheus is younger.

They could have been inserted anywhere back into the matrix. If the matrix is a program, it can bebooted or rerun from any point, by adding new programming. They could have been reabsorbed or reinserted sometime between the first and second movie, or any time frame.

Remember when the one guy who betrayed the team made a deal with Smith, saying he wanted to go back and not remember anything, and he wanted this and that or whatever? Clearly, from that and other things, the matrix can be altered. (Also evidenced by the deja vu moment w/ the cat.) So any of them could have been reinserted back into the matrix, with altered memories, etc. Which would also explain how/why Neo is having dreams. But it could easily explain how Morpheus is younger. Because remember, the matrix is a simulation, so the 'bodies' are an avatar, not the real person or their body.

What is odd that Jonathan Groff's character seems to have a full knowledge of the matrix, seems to enjoy the idea of it. Is he some sort of Matrix dealer, offering a customized experience. (Just a guess.) Maybe he's another sort of doctor, but I don't see that being real.

If something is going on, and Trinity is in the matrix, then it would make sense that she would need to be "reborn" again, as to wake up again, and have her mind restored to the real world.

I still think since Neo was the chosen one, that his consciousness going back into the matrix or going somewhere makes sense. He doesn't just die if he's that guy. Even when he was shot, Trinity was saying to him that she didn't believe he could die because he was the chosen one. Boom - he came back. A body isn't that hard to achieve in this situation.

Of course you realize, we're all going to be 100% wrong once we see it. haha

[Edited 9/10/21 15:47pm]

The sequels were so bad they even made the original seem bad (or flawed).

Like maybe it is still as good as it was in '99, but it's like pavlovian conditioning to choke back the vomit upon anything "The Matrix" related post-The Matrix Revolutions. Zero point Zero desire to pull up the OG, let alone sequel #4.

[Edited 9/11/21 1:02am]

TrivialPursuit said:

EmmaMcG said:

One (of many) issue I've always had with Revolutions was how Neo was able to use his powers in the real world. It makes no sense whatsoever. But if they say that the real world is just another part of the matrix then it might make sense. And if what we believed to be the real world is just an extension of the matrix then that would explain how Neo and Trinity could return, both in the matrix and the so-called real world.

Well, but remember Neo couldn't do anything outside of the matrix. Jujitsu, flying a chopper, whatever. He was able to manipulate the matrix for his own purposes. It seems that his body was affected by what happened in the matrix, but his abilities were uploaded to him while in the matrix. It wasn't anything he learned in the real world.

The idea of the real world still being part of the matrix is interesting. Did the machines always have the upper hand? The idea of "resurrection" though, makes me think the matrix was minimized somehow, and is now having its reboot moment. Maybe manipulated by people like Groff's character (I'm still curious about him); selling experiences (like Vanilla Sky or Total Recall).

It would explain how Neo and Trinity were alive still. With her being reborn though, if the agents can take over someone's body, why can't someone come out of the matrix and use a body that's just died, and their consciousness or whatever is inserted into it, and overtime because of experiences or whatever, the body starts to look like the consciousness inside it?

The Matrix-within-a-Matrix concept was actually a wildly popular fan theory that was plastered all over the internet in any and every online forum discussions post-Reloaded, pre-Revolutions after the final Reloaded scene where Neo said "something's different" or whatever indicator he used to imply he felt a change in his powers and proceeded to bring down that machine in the "real world" or whatever that final Reloaded scene was.

Fanboys were convinced this turn would redeem the series and make Revolutions as good as the OG, but, of course this did not occur. It would stand to reason 20+ years after the fact the Wachowski(s?) surely passed by this theory and like fanboys at the time, realized this would be a way better twist to the story than whatever b.s. they pre-shot and dumped on society six months after Reloaded came out.

[Edited 9/11/21 18:01pm]

The Matrix within a Matrix could be supported more in Reloaded. After Neo resurrects Trinity, he has a talk with Morpheus.

"Once the one reaches the source, the war should be over."

Neo says that in 24 hours Zion will be destroyed. Morpheus doesn't believe it, but Neo says it was a lie. "the prophecy was a lie. The one was never meant to end anything. It was all another system of control."

Morpheus states again he doesn't believe that.

Neo: But you said it yourself. How can the prophecy be true if the war isn't over? I know it isn't easy to hear, but I swear to you its the truth.

Neo got his information from The Architect, who created the matrix. He described Neo as an anomoly. He says, "the function of the one is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program."

He goes on, but this all seems to sort of support the matrix within a matrix. It was just a "system of control." People wake up to the real world and the existence of the matrix, and so they create a "real world" for them to think they're triumphing over. Yet, they're still in the matrix.

WhisperingDandelions said:

The Matrix-within-a-Matrix concept was actually a wildly popular fan theory that was plastered all over the internet in any and every online forum discussions post-Reloaded, pre-Revolutions after the final Reloaded scene where Neo said "something's different" or whatever indicator he used to imply he felt a change in his powers and proceeded to bring down that machine in the "real world" or whatever that final Reloaded scene was.

Fanboys were convinced this turn would redeem the series and make Revolutions as good as the OG, but, of course this did not occur. It would stand to reason 20+ years after the fact the Wachowski(s?) surely passed by this theory and like fanboys at the time, realized this would be a way better twist to the story than whatever b.s. they pre-shot and dumped on society six months after Reloaded came out.

[Edited 9/11/21 18:01pm]

Uhm, "the real world" being a part of the Matrix (hence Neo using his powers the "the real world") was part of the 6 part story the Wachowski's wanted to make and not just some fan theory, but WB refused them so they hastily wrapped it up with "Revolutions". Teh Wachowski's even tried to get there name off of "Revolutions" before it was released.

EmmaMcG said:

Yeah I can see a lot of that being possible. But for the Morpheus thing it would mean that in the real world he should still be older.

Morpheus is dead (see The Matrix Online) so I'm curious how they've handled his return and same for Trinity. All i can guess is still a Matrix with in the Matrix thing as The Architect explained in Reloaded.

JorisE73 said:

EmmaMcG said:

JorisE73 said:

Morpheus is dead (see The Matrix Online) so I'm curious how they've handled his return and same for Trinity. All i can guess is still a Matrix with in the Matrix thing as The Architect explained in Reloaded.

Just googled it there. The Matrix Online was a multiplayer videogame that wasn't really all that successful. It wouldn't be hard for them to just pretend that never happened and remove it from the official canon. 99% of people who will see Resurrections won't have played that game and I'd wager that the vast majority of people will have never even heard if it.

They already showed characters from the Matrix Online in the trailer and it was confirmed that Teh Matrix Online is part of the story like Enter the Matrix was (Niobe's and Ghost's mission and cut scenes with the Merovingian and why teh Oracle changed her appearance etc.)

JorisE73 said:

EmmaMcG said:

JorisE73 said:

They already showed characters from the Matrix Online in the trailer and it was confirmed that Teh Matrix Online is part of the story like Enter the Matrix was (Niobe's and Ghost's mission and cut scenes with the Merovingian and why teh Oracle changed her appearance etc.)

In that case, I hope they aren't expecting people to have played it and actually take time to explain who these characters are rather than relying on people's knowledge of a dead videogame. Maybe they could release an "Animatrix" style short film to cover the story of The Matrix Online.

I played the game back when it came out and only played the straight story, all the rest was a mess and never really played or focuseed on that. they could easily just make an hour or and hour and a half cartoon about the main story line where Morpheus gets assassinated.
But who knows indeed they could also just neglect it or explain it how he died in teh movie in 5 minutes and his ressurection (seems an apropriate name for this movie because everyone seems to have been ressurected for it.)