uPtoWnNY said:

RJOrion said:

uPtoWnNY said:

The Knicks got Charles "Mister Softie" Smith to replace X-Man....we all now that went down.

Sad NBA news with the passing of Jerry Sloan and Patrick Ewing testing positive for COVID-19.

smh...Charles Smith... i dont know who was more disappointing...Charles Smith, or Kenny "Sky" Walker...both of them were studs in college, but shit the bed as pros...at least Kenny Walker shined for one day when he won the slam dunk contest in 1989, but Charles Smith missing layup after layup in that one sequence at the end of that playoff game against the Bulls will forever live on in infamy...i really thought Kenny Walker was gonna do big things with the Knicks after he left Kentucky... but it turned out he had no small forward skills and he was too small at 6'7 to play power forward..im STILL pissed the Knicks traded Mark Jackson for Smith, Bo Kimble and a nearly washed up Doc Rivers...Ewing and Jackson had amazing chemistry...Ewing's best offensive seasons were with Jackson at the point from 1989-1992...im convinced they would have won rings had they not traded Jackson and then followed that by getting rid of Rod Strickland because Rick Pitino hated coaching Strickland...those two moves ruined the Knicks title chances in the mid 90s

Don't even get me started. The Knicks have turned poor drafts, dumb free agent signings & lousy player development into a science.

I tell you one thing.....at 6'4", Charles Barkley would have thrown it down against the Bulls. That's what I was screaming for Smith to do.

Another "What If" this Last Dance doc put in my mind, what if Krause makes nice with Phil Jackson during that 97-98 season and Jackson, Jordan, Pippen come back for one more shot the next season, does the Kobe-Shaq Lakers squad, without Jackson and Text Winter, ever get over the hump? Or do the Spurs end up running the West in the early 2000's instead?

Abdul said:

Another "What If" this Last Dance doc put in my mind, what if Krause makes nice with Phil Jackson during that 97-98 season and Jackson, Jordan, Pippen come back for one more shot the next season, does the Kobe-Shaq Lakers squad, without Jackson and Text Winter, ever get over the hump? Or do the Spurs end up running the West in the early 2000's instead?

The Lakers had no shot in 98-99 Bulls or no Bulls. They also signed Rodman that year, got red hot, then traded two of their best players for Glen Rice, and the team quit on Del Harris. They wouldn't have gotten past the Spurs who swept them. Phil didn't come until 99-00.

The Spurs would have given the Bulls a ton of problems with Robinson and Duncan, and good enough perimeter personnel to counter what the MJ-Pip tandem would have thrown at them. They'd have taken the Bulls to at least 6.

"The Last Dance" was a great show and definitely filled the void of no pro sports being on. And the amazing spin off of all the discussions are something else. My main take-away though is this will be a great show for the future generations of NBA players....there are just so many lessons here for them.

Maybe by todays standards

namepeace said:

Abdul said:

Another "What If" this Last Dance doc put in my mind, what if Krause makes nice with Phil Jackson during that 97-98 season and Jackson, Jordan, Pippen come back for one more shot the next season, does the Kobe-Shaq Lakers squad, without Jackson and Text Winter, ever get over the hump? Or do the Spurs end up running the West in the early 2000's instead?

The Lakers had no shot in 98-99 Bulls or no Bulls. They also signed Rodman that year, got red hot, then traded two of their best players for Glen Rice, and the team quit on Del Harris. They wouldn't have gotten past the Spurs who swept them. Phil didn't come until 99-00.

The Spurs would have given the Bulls a ton of problems with Robinson and Duncan, and good enough perimeter personnel to counter what the MJ-Pip tandem would have thrown at them. They'd have taken the Bulls to at least 6.

I don't think Phil leaves Chicago in enough time for that Kobe-Shaq Lakers squad to mature if they come back and defend the title in 98-99. It would've left the door open for the Spurs to really take control of the West outright.

I've always felt the Spurs caught a big break with the Knicks pulling off the upset against the Pacers, who were a tougher matchup for them.

uPtoWnNY said:

I guess Jordan wasn't so badass, then....all ruff & tuff until someone stands up to him. Fake-ass mfer.

Now Calvin Murphy would have gone after Parrish, I guarantee you that.

Once again, people who excel at what they do is one thing, being a decent human being is even harder. Perfection, fairy tales are believed by only Americans and fools. The Chicago press especially created Jordan's image, but gave Pippen grief. Who was the pro-player name that kicked Jordan's ass during a scrimmage in Chicago and it was hushed up?

The two times I've seen Jordan up close, he was an asshole and to little kids at that.

yes but su it worked...prince was too

DonRants said:

"The Last Dance" was a great show and definitely filled the void of no pro sports being on. And the amazing spin off of all the discussions are something else. My main take-away though is this will be a great show for the future generations of NBA players....there are just so many lessons here for them.

I give it a 4 out of 5

TD3 said:

uPtoWnNY said:

I guess Jordan wasn't so badass, then....all ruff & tuff until someone stands up to him. Fake-ass mfer.

Now Calvin Murphy would have gone after Parrish, I guarantee you that.

Once again, people who excel at what they do is one thing, being a decent human being is even harder. Perfection, fairy tales are believed by only Americans and fools. The Chicago press especially created Jordan's image, but gave Pippen grief. Who was the pro-player name that kicked Jordan's ass during a scrimmage in Chicago and it was hushed up?

The two times I've seen Jordan up close, he was an asshole and to little kids at that.

Yes, there is the arrogance that many people get when they are the very best in something that is so admired combined with the true misery many of them feel from the extreme isolation that super-stardom brings. This combines to produce assholery behavior. Despite all of this, I actual felt some compassion for the current day Michael who comes off as being rather sad in his demeanor.

While we're on the subject of basketball...watching these classic games from the 70s, 80s, 90s & early 00s on NBA TV is a sad reminder that today's league doesn't measure up. Hate to sound like an old man, but I miss the physicality, the variety of gameplans & intensity from back in the day. Pacers/Bulls ('98 ECF, Game 7), Sixers/Celtics ('81 ECF, Game 7), Knicks/Pacers ('94 ECF, Game 7), Suns/Celtics ('76 Finals, Game 5), Sixers /Raptors ('01 ESF, Game 7), the great Bird/Wilkins duel in the '88 playoffs, Kings/Lakers from '02, Lakers/Pistons ('88 Finals, Game 6 & 7).....that was the NBA at it's finest. Post play and the mid-range 'J' is a thing of the past...now it's 3-point shots and layups/dunks. As we saw in the Rockets/Warriors series, there was no Plan B when the 3 pointers stopped falling.

As for #1 of all time....I can make a case for Kareem. There's an ongoing debate about that at several basketball sites I go to.

[Edited 5/30/20 9:21am]

uPtoWnNY said:

While we're on the subject of basketball...watching these classic games from the 70s, 80s, 90s & early 00s on NBA TV is a sad reminder that today's league doesn't measure up. Hate to sound like an old man, but I miss the physicality, the variety of gameplans & intensity from back in the day. Pacers/Bulls ('98 ECF, Game 7), Sixers/Celtics ('81 ECF, Game 7), Knicks/Pacers ('94 ECF, Game 7), Suns/Celtics ('76 Finals, Game 5), Sixers /Raptors ('01 ESF, Game 7), the great Bird/Wilkins duel in the '88 playoffs, Kings/Lakers from '02, Lakers/Pistons ('88 Finals, Game 6 & 7).....that was the NBA at it's finest. Post play and the mid-range 'J' is a thing of the past...now it's 3-point shots and layups/dunks. As we saw in the Rockets/Warriors series, there was no Plan B when the 3 pointers stopped falling.

As for #1 of all time....I can make a case for Kareem. There's an ongoing debate about that at several basketball sites I go to.

[Edited 5/30/20 9:21am]

I like that NBA TV has expanded the classic game library during this pandemic, they showed two games I haven't seen since they first happened, Lakers/Suns ('84 playoffs), Magic set the playoff assist record, Blazers/Suns ('92 Playoffs), double OT Classic. I hope they show more stuff like that plus the games you mentioned, I almost live on Youtube watching those old games.

Abdul said:

uPtoWnNY said:

While we're on the subject of basketball...watching these classic games from the 70s, 80s, 90s & early 00s on NBA TV is a sad reminder that today's league doesn't measure up. Hate to sound like an old man, but I miss the physicality, the variety of gameplans & intensity from back in the day. Pacers/Bulls ('98 ECF, Game 7), Sixers/Celtics ('81 ECF, Game 7), Knicks/Pacers ('94 ECF, Game 7), Suns/Celtics ('76 Finals, Game 5), Sixers /Raptors ('01 ESF, Game 7), the great Bird/Wilkins duel in the '88 playoffs, Kings/Lakers from '02, Lakers/Pistons ('88 Finals, Game 6 & 7).....that was the NBA at it's finest. Post play and the mid-range 'J' is a thing of the past...now it's 3-point shots and layups/dunks. As we saw in the Rockets/Warriors series, there was no Plan B when the 3 pointers stopped falling.

As for #1 of all time....I can make a case for Kareem. There's an ongoing debate about that at several basketball sites I go to.

[Edited 5/30/20 9:21am]

I like that NBA TV has expanded the classic game library during this pandemic, they showed two games I haven't seen since they first happened, Lakers/Suns ('84 playoffs), Magic set the playoff assist record, Blazers/Suns ('92 Playoffs), double OT Classic. I hope they show more stuff like that plus the games you mentioned, I almost live on Youtube watching those old games.

NBA TV is showing Game 6 of the '77 Finals (Sixers/Blazers) right now. The first of Dr. J's many playoff heartbreaks before finally getting over the hump in '83.

Analytics has really changed pro sports....I'm not a big fan of it.

Honestly, to answer my own question. I would say he was a bully, but a "benevolent" bully. He was a leader and a winner. I remember reading years ago about a general who said that to lead an army of men into battle, the men must "fear" their leader more than they fear their opponent. I think this was Michael's style of leadership. So I still think he was a bully...but he was a bully with a purpose.

Here are some short clips which show the sides of

MJ..the tough guy: https://www.youtube.com/w...akGhaZ7ZGI

BJ Armstrong : https://www.youtube.com/w...RFZ8dB6BsA

Other players saying Jordan's style would have brought out the best in them vs the leadership style of Kobe and LeBron: https://www.youtube.com/w...vLlEnEXgpg

Shannon Sharpe breaking it down vs Skip: https://www.youtube.com/w...w2r6tRPZ_I

2).https://www.youtube.com/w...tqV0OSFYSM

[Edited 6/2/20 8:03am]

Abdul said:

uPtoWnNY said:

While we're on the subject of basketball...watching these classic games from the 70s, 80s, 90s & early 00s on NBA TV is a sad reminder that today's league doesn't measure up. Hate to sound like an old man, but I miss the physicality, the variety of gameplans & intensity from back in the day. Pacers/Bulls ('98 ECF, Game 7), Sixers/Celtics ('81 ECF, Game 7), Knicks/Pacers ('94 ECF, Game 7), Suns/Celtics ('76 Finals, Game 5), Sixers /Raptors ('01 ESF, Game 7), the great Bird/Wilkins duel in the '88 playoffs, Kings/Lakers from '02, Lakers/Pistons ('88 Finals, Game 6 & 7).....that was the NBA at it's finest. Post play and the mid-range 'J' is a thing of the past...now it's 3-point shots and layups/dunks. As we saw in the Rockets/Warriors series, there was no Plan B when the 3 pointers stopped falling.

As for #1 of all time....I can make a case for Kareem. There's an ongoing debate about that at several basketball sites I go to.

[Edited 5/30/20 9:21am]

I like that NBA TV has expanded the classic game library during this pandemic, they showed two games I haven't seen since they first happened, Lakers/Suns ('84 playoffs), Magic set the playoff assist record, Blazers/Suns ('92 Playoffs), double OT Classic. I hope they show more stuff like that plus the games you mentioned, I almost live on Youtube watching those old games.

Is NBA TV worth it for someone like me who only watches the old stuff?

.

I've been binging old games constantly and I was thinking surely NBA has a streaming service like everyone else where you can pull up any old games in HD on-demand, but, they really don't seem to I guess?

[Edited 6/2/20 5:07am]

[Edited 6/2/20 5:08am]

WhisperingDandelions said:

Is NBA TV worth it for someone like me who only watches the old stuff?

.

I've been binging old games constantly and I was thinking surely NBA has a streaming service like everyone else where you can pull up any old games in HD on-demand, but, they really don't seem to I guess?

[Edited 6/2/20 5:07am]

[Edited 6/2/20 5:08am]

For just the old stuff, NO, NBA TV isn't worth it, they mostly replay games from the 2000's til now when they dig in the vault, this pandemic has forced them to dig back further. Besides Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtics and Jordan's Bulls they usually don't go back far enough IMO.

I will say that NBA TV is great for current NBA coverage though, they help me keep up with all the teams during the season without having a NBA League Pass subscription, which is the only service they have to access old games from what I've seen. I stick to YOUTUBE for my old games fix

[Edited 6/3/20 7:22am]

Abdul said:

namepeace said:

The Lakers had no shot in 98-99 Bulls or no Bulls. They also signed Rodman that year, got red hot, then traded two of their best players for Glen Rice, and the team quit on Del Harris. They wouldn't have gotten past the Spurs who swept them. Phil didn't come until 99-00.

The Spurs would have given the Bulls a ton of problems with Robinson and Duncan, and good enough perimeter personnel to counter what the MJ-Pip tandem would have thrown at them. They'd have taken the Bulls to at least 6.

I don't think Phil leaves Chicago in enough time for that Kobe-Shaq Lakers squad to mature if they come back and defend the title in 98-99. It would've left the door open for the Spurs to really take control of the West outright.

I've always felt the Spurs caught a big break with the Knicks pulling off the upset against the Pacers, who were a tougher matchup for them.

Sound points!

uPtoWnNY said:

NBA TV is showing Game 6 of the '77 Finals (Sixers/Blazers) right now. The first of Dr. J's many playoff heartbreaks before finally getting over the hump in '83.

Analytics has really changed pro sports....I'm not a big fan of it.

That 77 Finals is a heartbreaker for us Sixers fans, I've watched all six games at least ten times thanks to Youtube, that Blazers team played great together. 78 snd 79 were big choke jobs by my Sixers, should've got at least one title in those two years and 81 was the biggest choke of all, letting the Celtics come back from that 3-1 hole. If we didn't get Moses we wouldn't have one a title IMO, thank goodness he was tired of carrying the Rockets

I'm not a big fan of Analytics either, especially when GM's use it to build the entire team

Abdul said:

uPtoWnNY said:

NBA TV is showing Game 6 of the '77 Finals (Sixers/Blazers) right now. The first of Dr. J's many playoff heartbreaks before finally getting over the hump in '83.

Analytics has really changed pro sports....I'm not a big fan of it.

That 77 Finals is a heartbreaker for us Sixers fans, I've watched all six games at least ten times thanks to Youtube, that Blazers team played great together. 78 snd 79 were big choke jobs by my Sixers, should've got at least one title in those two years and 81 was the biggest choke of all, letting the Celtics come back from that 3-1 hole. If we didn't get Moses we wouldn't have one a title IMO, thank goodness he was tired of carrying the Rockets

I'm not a big fan of Analytics either, especially when GM's use it to build the entire team

What should be more disappointing for Sixer fans is that championship team losing to the Nets in '84....one of the weirdest playoff series I've ever seen.

uPtoWnNY said:

What should be more disappointing for Sixer fans is that championship team losing to the Nets in '84....one of the weirdest playoff series I've ever seen.

That Nets team always gave us fits for some reason, probably because we played each other so much being in the same division, we still should've beat them in 84 though, it was a big let down

Abdul said:

uPtoWnNY said:

NBA TV is showing Game 6 of the '77 Finals (Sixers/Blazers) right now. The first of Dr. J's many playoff heartbreaks before finally getting over the hump in '83.

Analytics has really changed pro sports....I'm not a big fan of it.

That 77 Finals is a heartbreaker for us Sixers fans, I've watched all six games at least ten times thanks to Youtube, that Blazers team played great together. 78 snd 79 were big choke jobs by my Sixers, should've got at least one title in those two years and 81 was the biggest choke of all, letting the Celtics come back from that 3-1 hole. If we didn't get Moses we wouldn't have one a title IMO, thank goodness he was tired of carrying the Rockets

I'm not a big fan of Analytics either, especially when GM's use it to build the entire team

This

And the playoffs in 84 losing to the New Jersey Nets 3-2 losing all 3 at home.

Daryl Dawkins got a little revenge on the Sixers.

I had to listen to all the Lakers fans yell Philly gone in school after we swept them in

the Finals the previous year.

phunkdaddy said:

This

And the playoffs in 84 losing to the New Jersey Nets 3-2 losing all 3 at home.

Daryl Dawkins got a little revenge on the Sixers.

I had to listen to all the Lakers fans yell Philly gone in school after we swept them in

the Finals the previous year.

Hopefully you got to talk a some trash back to them weeks later when the Lakers choked against the Celtics in the finals

Abdul said:

phunkdaddy said:

This

And the playoffs in 84 losing to the New Jersey Nets 3-2 losing all 3 at home.

Daryl Dawkins got a little revenge on the Sixers.

I had to listen to all the Lakers fans yell Philly gone in school after we swept them in

the Finals the previous year.

Hopefully you got to talk a some trash back to them weeks later when the Lakers choked against the Celtics in the finals

Magic took a lot of heat in '84, with all the "Tragic Johnson" comments from the media.

Celtics got rough with the Lakers, and they wilted.