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PrintableSupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: IAM said: someone pointed out that "straight people don't talk about how they run the streets naked at mardi gras so why is it a big deal if we do it during the parade"
you can't seriously make a comparison to the 2 can you? mardi gras is a bunch of drunken STRAIGHT AND GAY people running the streets like baffoons for no other purpose than for being drunk naked baffoons. I think I'm being seriously misquoted. Here's what I said: This happens during Mardi Gras and you don't hear people sayin shit. Do those straight people represent the majority of straights? I was making the point that what you are describing happens in straight society, Mardi Gras & Spring Break both come to mind, and you never hear people lambasting it. Sure you just did, only because it was brought up. You don't hear people coming out against it because it's OK for men and women to enjoy each other sexually. I'm saying it's equally ridiculous to judge all of the gay community by the overtly sexual parade patrons as it is to judge all of straight society by the "bafoons" at Mardi Gras or Spring Break. my friend told me never to argue with a drag queen because they always have the last word. it doesnt matter if it's a straight, irish, puerto rican, or haitian parade! what other parade FOR THE PURPOSE OF PRIDE has people runnin the streets in their draws? if you're confusing what i'm saying with why are there drag queens in the parade that's not what i mean at all... if what you're saying is "that's how they show their pride" then i get your point don't understand it. but i get your point. | |
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PS
thanx for the note AEROGRAM (even if it was for IAN!) | |
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this is sort of the point i was trying to make about runnin the streets in your draws on such an important day for the gay community. it just seems to be disrespectful to your cause.
I completely agree. I think pride shouldn't be boring, but it shouldn't be the most hefonistic thing since the roman orgies either. usually i spend pride with my best (and more often then not) str8 friends, just having beers and getting high and chilling, which is pretty much the best thing to do on a nice june day, anyway. gay people need to remember that besides having to defend yourselves, the people that love you have alot of defending to do themselves. we take alot of shit for sticking up for you to and alot of times that's taken for granted. i've cut alot of people out of my life for disrespecting my gay friend. alot. family included. i agree with you about the sticking up part. i have never disrespected someone just because they are str8, the same way i would never want anyone to disrespect me just because i happen to be gay. i do find it a little troubling that you have cut family members out of your life because they had issues with your friends' sexuality. while i think this is trememndously brave of you and speaks very well of the bond with your friend, they are your family. but that is your life, and it really is none of my business. shows like queer as folk are all that straight people really know about the gay life. of course they'll take that for truth because there isn't any other show they can compare it against. i my friend is neither a will or the other real fem guy. while i think both shows are pretty good, and i do believe that they are playing stereotypes, which is damaging, it is a mjor step. those two shows have broken all kinds of boundaries. the jeffersons in todday's context is pretty offensive in it's stereotypes, but at the time was groundbreaking as well. i think before we have realistic portrayels, we have to have the stereotypes, followed by the softened stereotypes, followed by somewhat realistic, etc. it is just a question of time. don't hate on straight people for not knowing. first you're taught that being gay is like the worst thing in the universe then all you get to know about gay people is will and grace or queer as folk. if that's all you see that's all you'll know. i wouldn't dream of hating someone because they are unexposed. i am quite used to it, and it is nice alot of times to be the one to open someone eyes to reality. it is something i have experienced over and over since i came out at 14, and something that really makes me feel as if i have done some good in the world. my only issues with uninformed people is when they choose to believe the lies from the people who are just as uninformed but choose to name themselves as experts in the matter over people who have lived the life. Just because they have read the bible or the many many fabricated reports of what goes on in the gay existance ( see godhatesfags.com ) does not make them an expert. look at it logistically: who would you choose to believe about the war in iraq? the person who saw some stuff reported on CNN or the soldier who was there to experience it first hand? but like someone said before (i think it was velvet) because normal everyday people are boring to watch so we'll never see them on tv so they have to make the characters non threatening and non sexual. it was the same thing with black people back in the day. you had to play non threatening non sexual roles to be on tv. this is very true in almost every minority. in the past they went through almost the exact same steps. the only way a black person could be on TV was if they were a servant, or an uneducated "shucking and jiving" kind of character. asian people have gone through the same thing, and more often than not, women still to this day are poorly represented. things have gotten better with time. not perfect, but certainly better. so it will be with us. with each generation, it gets a little better. i have to say, Iam, i have really started looking forward to this thread... 
chris Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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Lammastide said: I was asked to contribute to this thread, but the boys have pretty much held down the fort. I agree 100% with everything cborgman, particularly, has offered here. I'll add one further theoretical thing, though...
My political nature, while very subversive when necessary, is notably understated (i.e., you'll never see me marching down the Castro in hot pants, a pink boa and a policeman's cap). I once asked a radical Marxist friend of mine about the validity of aggressive, in-your-face political action, and she explained that amid any oppressed group forging its own place in a society, radicals play a vital role -- not only do they force an otherwise largely complacent populace to deal with certain ill conventions, but they also widen the scope of what is considered "more acceptible" minority behavior. For example: What U.S. Civil Rights-style protesters did beginning in the 1950s was considered markedly shocking at the onset of their movement. But many political theorists suggest more aggressive protest styles like the Nation of Islam's or The Black Power Movement's bolstered the success of the Civil Rights camp, because mainstream America then saw it as the more palatable route of social change. It's sort of a "good cop, bad cop" thing. a very good point. our revolution was actually pretty much started in this country by a bar mostly full of drag queens who were tired of being arrested for being themselves, and started a riot. flash forward almost 35 years, and now it's a fairly diverse cross section with one goal in mind, and no real leadership. Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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cborgman said: Lammastide said: I was asked to contribute to this thread, but the boys have pretty much held down the fort. I agree 100% with everything cborgman, particularly, has offered here. I'll add one further theoretical thing, though...
My political nature, while very subversive when necessary, is notably understated (i.e., you'll never see me marching down the Castro in hot pants, a pink boa and a policeman's cap). I once asked a radical Marxist friend of mine about the validity of aggressive, in-your-face political action, and she explained that amid any oppressed group forging its own place in a society, radicals play a vital role -- not only do they force an otherwise largely complacent populace to deal with certain ill conventions, but they also widen the scope of what is considered "more acceptible" minority behavior. For example: What U.S. Civil Rights-style protesters did beginning in the 1950s was considered markedly shocking at the onset of their movement. But many political theorists suggest more aggressive protest styles like the Nation of Islam's or The Black Power Movement's bolstered the success of the Civil Rights camp, because mainstream America then saw it as the more palatable route of social change. It's sort of a "good cop, bad cop" thing. a very good point. our revolution was actually pretty much started in this country by a bar mostly full of drag queens who were tired of being arrested for being themselves, and started a riot. flash forward almost 35 years, and now it's a fairly diverse cross section with one goal in mind, and no real leadership. 
As an aside, has anyone heard that the bar, Stonewall, was closing? Is this true, or am I off? I thought it had become a bookstore years ago. Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” | |
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Lammastide said: As an aside, has anyone heard that the bar, Stonewall, was closing? Is this true, or am I off? I thought it had become a bookstore years ago. i do not know. that would really suck, because it is a monument i would really like to see... kind of a gay mecca Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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cborgman said: Lammastide said: I was asked to contribute to this thread, but the boys have pretty much held down the fort. I agree 100% with everything cborgman, particularly, has offered here. I'll add one further theoretical thing, though...
My political nature, while very subversive when necessary, is notably understated (i.e., you'll never see me marching down the Castro in hot pants, a pink boa and a policeman's cap). I once asked a radical Marxist friend of mine about the validity of aggressive, in-your-face political action, and she explained that amid any oppressed group forging its own place in a society, radicals play a vital role -- not only do they force an otherwise largely complacent populace to deal with certain ill conventions, but they also widen the scope of what is considered "more acceptible" minority behavior. For example: What U.S. Civil Rights-style protesters did beginning in the 1950s was considered markedly shocking at the onset of their movement. But many political theorists suggest more aggressive protest styles like the Nation of Islam's or The Black Power Movement's bolstered the success of the Civil Rights camp, because mainstream America then saw it as the more palatable route of social change. It's sort of a "good cop, bad cop" thing. a very good point. our revolution was actually pretty much started in this country by a bar mostly full of drag queens who were tired of being arrested for being themselves, and started a riot. flash forward almost 35 years, and now it's a fairly diverse cross section with one goal in mind, and no real leadership. thanks chris...i actually look forward to it to i'm learning alot i gotta say that i didn't just cut off the friends and fam because they disrespected and didnt accept my friend that's just where it all came to a head when i need to start defending myself for the decisions i make and who i choose to have in my life against you, then it's time for you to go. i am a grown ass man if i wanna be a "faggot-lover" yes, that's what my cousin called me before i smacked the shit outta him then so be it that "faggot" he's talkin about has been my pal since grammar school that's about a good 20 years and by the way... i nominate you for leader. | |
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IAM said: thanks chris...i actually look forward to it to i'm learning alot i gotta say that i didn't just cut off the friends and fam because they disrespected and didnt accept my friend that's just where it all came to a head when i need to start defending myself for the decisions i make and who i choose to have in my life against you, then it's time for you to go. i am a grown ass man if i wanna be a "faggot-lover" yes, that's what my cousin called me before i smacked the shit outta him then so be it that "faggot" he's talkin about has been my pal since grammar school that's about a good 20 years and by the way... i nominate you for leader. aww, thank you Iam, that was very sweet. I could never be leader though. My time on Earth is fairly limited, and I have way too many skeletons in my closet to ever be an effective leader. I think standing up for not only your friend but your own beliefs to your family is something that is a speaks weell of not only your convictions, but the level of belief you have in those convictions. And at the risk of sounding cheesy, it's more people like oyu that we need in the fight gfor equality. The best fighters are the ones who are not fighting for their own rights, but instead fighting for the rights of those who can not really fight for their rights themselves. Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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Stonewall... 
RESPECT DUE | |
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IAM said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: IAM said: someone pointed out that "straight people don't talk about how they run the streets naked at mardi gras so why is it a big deal if we do it during the parade"
you can't seriously make a comparison to the 2 can you? mardi gras is a bunch of drunken STRAIGHT AND GAY people running the streets like baffoons for no other purpose than for being drunk naked baffoons. I think I'm being seriously misquoted. Here's what I said: This happens during Mardi Gras and you don't hear people sayin shit. Do those straight people represent the majority of straights? I was making the point that what you are describing happens in straight society, Mardi Gras & Spring Break both come to mind, and you never hear people lambasting it. Sure you just did, only because it was brought up. You don't hear people coming out against it because it's OK for men and women to enjoy each other sexually. I'm saying it's equally ridiculous to judge all of the gay community by the overtly sexual parade patrons as it is to judge all of straight society by the "bafoons" at Mardi Gras or Spring Break. my friend told me never to argue with a drag queen because they always have the last word. it doesnt matter if it's a straight, irish, puerto rican, or haitian parade! what other parade FOR THE PURPOSE OF PRIDE has people runnin the streets in their draws? if you're confusing what i'm saying with why are there drag queens in the parade that's not what i mean at all... if what you're saying is "that's how they show their pride" then i get your point don't understand it. but i get your point. That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm pointing out the fact that nobody ever says jack shit when straight people act like this. You'll see posts like this that will call into question things such as fags running around in their draws but you'll never see anyone creating threads to point out the fact that straight society carries on just the same and sometimes to worse degrees. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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