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Printablealexnevermind319 said: I agree that 2 a point there are ppl who are fitting into those stereotypes...but y is that the only image that ppl outside of the community have of the Gay community?...y are ppl from within the community not taking a stand 2 say hey, the majority of us are just like y'all...we put our pants on...we go to work...we come home...we have dinner with our loved ones...and then we go 2 bed...we are not all flamin faggots.. We're the silent majority - were not entertaining or newsworthy. | |
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cborgman said: Man, I am out of the office for an hour and a half, and the org explodes...
hee hee... alright, read the whole thread, and here are my personal thoughts. I speak for myself and ONLY myself. personally, I agree with many of you that gay pride is a ridiculous thing in some aspects. As someone who, despite being a bit flirty and camp on this site, is rather mundane and average joe boring in real life, I find many images of gay pride loathsome. I despise the fact that those of us who tend to compromise a large part of the gay community, who are your boring friends and neighbors, go largely unrepresented when it comes to pride parades and pride events. all too often people use pride as an excuse to wear next to nothing, get roaring drunk and dance down the streets in the most garish clothes you can imagine. most of us would never dream of doing such a thing, which many people find very difficult to believe, because when the see footage of pride events on TV, all they ever show is the overbuff clones wearing thongs, high on exstacy and griding away at one another, or the drag queens. why are these the only images you see? mostly because they are a lot more interesting to watch than all the guys and girls who look like any other person who are standing there just celebrating the fact that we are one step closer to freedom and true equality. Now keep in mind, i don't hate the clones or the drag queens, i just get tired of them being the only ones represented a lot of the time. but the point of pride is to celbrate the freedoms we have achieved and to set ourselves toward the ultimate goal of total equality. because the steps that have been achieved have only been achieved recently. at this time in america homosexual sex is still illegal in if i recall correctly 36 states. as i speak my home state has passed a bill specifically making same sex civil unions illegal, regardless of wether the civil union was formed and honored in a different state. they are about to make it illegal in texas for same sex couples to adopt or foster kids, and they will be spending 50 million dollars a year to hunt down same sex couples in texas that have adopted or are currently fostering children and take them from the couples. there is a case before the texas supreme court currently is hearing a case in which two houston men were prosecuted for engaging in homosexual contact in the privacy of their own home. and i hardly need mention all of the reported and unreported cases of gay bashings and murders. and this is just one state out of 50. for me, pride is an act of defiance, much as drag is to richard. i openly confess to my sexuality, rahter than hide it because it tells people that i am not ashamed of who i am, and i will not allow their feelings on the matter to affect who i am or how i conduct my life. when i show my pride of who i am, it is a way of honoring the millions who came before me who did not even have the meager freedoms that i enjoy, who had to live their entire lives in fear and secrecy and shame. when i show my pride it is a way to show the children who have not yet stuggled with the hatred and mockery and ciolence they will suffer because they love another person who happens to be the same gender that they are that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and that better days are coming. when i show my pride it is a way of telling the world "I AM MAD AS HELL THAT I AM BEING TAKEN FOR GRANTED AND OPPRESSED AND I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE!" when i show my pride, it is a way of confirming my own existance. when i have pride, i am me. and all i want is the rights every other adult in this country has. and i will not take no for an answer.  prideful edit
[This message was edited Thu Apr 24 13:52:03 PDT 2003 by cborgman] thanx for sharing that... i was waiting for your response actually | |
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alexnevermind319 said: VelvetSplash said: alexnevermind319 said: I read in the above post that being "camp" was like Jack from Will & Grace. And sadly this is the misconception that a lot of ppl have of the Gay Community. They do not realize that a lot of Gay ppl look down upon this. They don't want 2 b bunched into a group with ppl who feel that they must b "campy" to b accepted.
That was me who said the remark about Will & Grace - I'm gay, so I know that not all men are screaming queens (I'm not!) - but the question was asked "what is camp" - so I was just answering. I do not like that stereotype - but like most stereotypes, there is a degree of truth to them, and there are a lot of men like that. I agree that 2 a point there are ppl who are fitting into those stereotypes...but y is that the only image that ppl outside of the community have of the Gay community?...y are ppl from within the community not taking a stand 2 say hey, the majority of us are just like y'all...we put our pants on...we go to work...we come home...we have dinner with our loved ones...and then we go 2 bed...we are not all flamin faggots... 
. [This message was edited Thu Apr 24 13:41:13 PDT 2003 by VelvetSplash] while shows like will and grace and queer as folk have done some great things by advancing the cause, they have hurt things in alot of ways too, by showing endless stereotypes. people love Jack most on that show because he defines to them what gay men are supposed to be like. QAF is full of characters who party in dark sex clubs non-stop, take drugs non-stop, fuck like bunnies, and generally cheat on one another every chance they get. Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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I think people put way to much emphasis on half naked men running around at gay pride parades. This happens during Mardi Gras and you don't hear people sayin shit. Do those straight people represent the majority of straights?
Some people can't help the fact that they are effeminite or masculine and shouldn't have to be forced to act against their nature. I don't promote people being out to the fullest degrees in situations where it will be harmful to the person, i.e. being gay bashed because they live in an intollerant town in Montana... I'd also like to highlight that there is an incredible amount of artistic expression in drag. I do all the things that straight people do, but I cannot (and never have been able to) hide the fact that I'm gay. To many people that is the equivalent of being flaming or flaunting. It's not, it's just the simple fact. When I was 6 months old my aunt told my mother that I was going to be gay. She told my mother the same thing when I was 5. To this day, my aunt is very proud that she was able to call it like she did. She always accepted me, even when others in my family rejected me. If gay people weren't so oppressed in society we wouldn't ever feel the need to come out in such hardcore degrees. My outspokenness has everything to do with the fact that I will not lay quiet and crawl in my closet to make the straight masses comfortable. This edit is only 6 seconds old and I can tell it's gay!  [This message was edited Thu Apr 24 14:21:47 PDT 2003 by SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy] 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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IAM said: thanx for sharing that... i was waiting for your response actually my pleasure, iam. i underrstnad your initial question, and it indeed is a very valid question. i am often asked similar things by people all the time, and i am always happy to talk about it. my favorite is kind of similar to your question: they ask me "we understnad being proud and all, but why does it have to be shoved in our faces? why can't gay people be discreet?" to which i always respond: "look around and see how much heterosexuality is shoved in OUR faces. on tv, on billboards, in public, EVERYWHERE. we'll start being discreet if you will" Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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cborgman said: alexnevermind319 said: VelvetSplash said: alexnevermind319 said: I read in the above post that being "camp" was like Jack from Will & Grace. And sadly this is the misconception that a lot of ppl have of the Gay Community. They do not realize that a lot of Gay ppl look down upon this. They don't want 2 b bunched into a group with ppl who feel that they must b "campy" to b accepted.
That was me who said the remark about Will & Grace - I'm gay, so I know that not all men are screaming queens (I'm not!) - but the question was asked "what is camp" - so I was just answering. I do not like that stereotype - but like most stereotypes, there is a degree of truth to them, and there are a lot of men like that. I agree that 2 a point there are ppl who are fitting into those stereotypes...but y is that the only image that ppl outside of the community have of the Gay community?...y are ppl from within the community not taking a stand 2 say hey, the majority of us are just like y'all...we put our pants on...we go to work...we come home...we have dinner with our loved ones...and then we go 2 bed...we are not all flamin faggots...
. [This message was edited Thu Apr 24 13:41:13 PDT 2003 by VelvetSplash] while shows like will and grace and queer as folk have done some great things by advancing the cause, they have hurt things in alot of ways too, by showing endless stereotypes. people love Jack most on that show because he defines to them what gay men are supposed to be like. QAF is full of characters who party in dark sex clubs non-stop, take drugs non-stop, fuck like bunnies, and generally cheat on one another every chance they get. And this is exactly what i want 2 try 2 get across to ppl. We are not a bunch of oversexed-flamin-crack whores. We live our lives just like most everyone else. However, i did watch QAF a couple of weeks ago and I did see something that I thought was kinda true. 2 of the main characters moved into a "str8" neighborhood and the most flaming one decided that he was gonna try 2 fit in...and it ended up costing him a lot...Now i am not a big fan of QAF because of the stereotypes that it re-inforces. **I love the soundtrac however**  ...If ppl wanna get a better idea of how the majority of homosexual lifestyles rent "Love/Honor/Valour/Compassion"...i think this is one of the most accurate views of Homosexual life... | |
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good lord, the things i have said in this thread make me sound like such an oscar wilde wannabe
Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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alexnevermind319 said: And this is exactly what i want 2 try 2 get across to ppl. We are not a bunch of oversexed-flamin-crack whores. We live our lives just like most everyone else. However, i did watch QAF a couple of weeks ago and I did see something that I thought was kinda true. 2 of the main characters moved into a "str8" neighborhood and the most flaming one decided that he was gonna try 2 fit in...and it ended up costing him a lot...Now i am not a big fan of QAF because of the stereotypes that it re-inforces. **I love the soundtrac however** ...If ppl wanna get a better idea of how the majority of homosexual lifestyles rent "Love/Honor/Valour/Compassion"...i think this is one of the most accurate views of Homosexual life...you mean LOVE! VALOUR! COMPASSION! i agree. it's the closest they have ever gotten to really portraying the magority truthfully  "should not have had those margueritas at lunch and tried to type" edit[This message was edited Thu Apr 24 14:06:20 PDT 2003 by cborgman] Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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cborgman said: alexnevermind319 said: cborgman said: alexnevermind319 said: VelvetSplash said: alexnevermind319 said: I read in the above post that being "camp" was like Jack from Will & Grace. And sadly this is the misconception that a lot of ppl have of the Gay Community. They do not realize that a lot of Gay ppl look down upon this. They don't want 2 b bunched into a group with ppl who feel that they must b "campy" to b accepted.
That was me who said the remark about Will & Grace - I'm gay, so I know that not all men are screaming queens (I'm not!) - but the question was asked "what is camp" - so I was just answering. I do not like that stereotype - but like most stereotypes, there is a degree of truth to them, and there are a lot of men like that. I agree that 2 a point there are ppl who are fitting into those stereotypes...but y is that the only image that ppl outside of the community have of the Gay community?...y are ppl from within the community not taking a stand 2 say hey, the majority of us are just like y'all...we put our pants on...we go to work...we come home...we have dinner with our loved ones...and then we go 2 bed...we are not all flamin faggots...
. [This message was edited Thu Apr 24 13:41:13 PDT 2003 by VelvetSplash] while shows like will and grace and queer as folk have done some great things by advancing the cause, they have hurt things in alot of ways too, by showing endless stereotypes. people love Jack most on that show because he defines to them what gay men are supposed to be like. QAF is full of characters who party in dark sex clubs non-stop, take drugs non-stop, fuck like bunnies, and generally cheat on one another every chance they get. And this is exactly what i want 2 try 2 get across to ppl. We are not a bunch of oversexed-flamin-crack whores. We live our lives just like most everyone else. However, i did watch QAF a couple of weeks ago and I did see something that I thought was kinda true. 2 of the main characters moved into a "str8" neighborhood and the most flaming one decided that he was gonna try 2 fit in...and it ended up costing him a lot...Now i am not a big fan of QAF because of the stereotypes that it re-inforces. **I love the soundtrac however** ...If ppl wanna get a better idea of how the majority of homosexual lifestyles rent "Love/Honor/Valour/Compassion"...i think this is one of the most accurate views of Homosexual life...you mean LOVE! VALOUR! COMPASSION! i agree. it's the closest they have ever gotten to really portraying the magority truthfully  ty | |
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Marrk said: Yeah why do us straight folks need to know if you're gay or not?
I'm not bothered.Just have a fun carnival for everyone!  I don't follow the us and you thing because we are all in the HUMAN/RAT race -------------------------------------------------
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cborgman said: while shows like will and grace and queer as folk have done some great things by advancing the cause, they have hurt things in alot of ways too, by showing endless stereotypes. people love Jack most on that show because he defines to them what gay men are supposed to be like.
QAF is full of characters who party in dark sex clubs non-stop, take drugs non-stop, fuck like bunnies, and generally cheat on one another every chance they get. Yes, whilst it's great to have shows with gay men as the focus and main characters, it presents a non-threatening view of homosexuality - in as much these two shows show stereotypical images of gay men. Will & Grace I probably find more objectional because of it's banality - I've yet to see Will kiss another man, or even be close with one - and Jack portrays the safe image of a gay man - the non-threatening happy homo - He's so 2D he's practically cardboard. But I guess if we put it into perspective, it's a start, and I can't imagine programs like the Jeffersons being so warmly received these days - so we'll have to look at Gay programming in the coming years to see if it spans out and encompasses more areas of gay life other than screaming queens who sniff poppers and get shagged by a different stranger every night. | |
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VelvetSplash said: cborgman said: while shows like will and grace and queer as folk have done some great things by advancing the cause, they have hurt things in alot of ways too, by showing endless stereotypes. people love Jack most on that show because he defines to them what gay men are supposed to be like.
QAF is full of characters who party in dark sex clubs non-stop, take drugs non-stop, fuck like bunnies, and generally cheat on one another every chance they get. Yes, whilst it's great to have shows with gay men as the focus and main characters, it presents a non-threatening view of homosexuality - in as much these two shows show stereotypical images of gay men. Will & Grace I probably find more objectional because of it's banality - I've yet to see Will kiss another man, or even be close with one - and Jack portrays the safe image of a gay man - the non-threatening happy homo - He's so 2D he's practically cardboard. But I guess if we put it into perspective, it's a start, and I can't imagine programs like the Jeffersons being so warmly received these days - so we'll have to look at Gay programming in the coming years to see if it spans out and encompasses more areas of gay life other than screaming queens who sniff poppers and get shagged by a different stranger every night. well, if my show gets picked up locally, i will be sure to send you copy of all 3 seasons. it's the story of a gay man who finds a boyfriend, and adopts a kid with him, and all the other trials of life. no queeny best friend, very little drug use, and very little infidelity. but it's not nearly as boring as it sounds... "no more marguerita for me, i have to go back to wrok" edit[This message was edited Thu Apr 24 14:17:59 PDT 2003 by cborgman] Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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I agree that these shows are a good starting point. I saw on Gay.com the other night that Will & Grace is only going to be on for 2 more years. I don't know whether to be happy or sad. That show has done a lot to promote the Community, yet it has also done a lot to set it back.  Hopefully there will be a new prime-time show that more accuratly shows the gay community. | |
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alexnevermind319 said: I agree that these shows are a good starting point. I saw on Gay.com the other night that Will & Grace is only going to be on for 2 more years. I don't know whether to be happy or sad. That show has done a lot to promote the Community, yet it has also done a lot to set it back.
Hopefully there will be a new prime-time show that more accuratly shows the gay community. just curious alex how does the show set the community back? -------------------------------------------------
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pejman said: alexnevermind319 said: I agree that these shows are a good starting point. I saw on Gay.com the other night that Will & Grace is only going to be on for 2 more years. I don't know whether to be happy or sad. That show has done a lot to promote the Community, yet it has also done a lot to set it back.
Hopefully there will be a new prime-time show that more accuratly shows the gay community. just curious alex how does the show set the community back? i know, alex was asked, and i am sure he will respond, please forgive me for butting in, but i wanna weigh in on this one: the show's gay characters are the following: a nuerotic nuetered gay man attached to a str8 woman, who has no mate, no fun, and no life outside of her. a wildly campy sexpot who literally has no masculine side whatsoever and is the most shrill nelly queen to ever grace primetime TV without being seen in drag. Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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cborgman said: pejman said: alexnevermind319 said: I agree that these shows are a good starting point. I saw on Gay.com the other night that Will & Grace is only going to be on for 2 more years. I don't know whether to be happy or sad. That show has done a lot to promote the Community, yet it has also done a lot to set it back.
Hopefully there will be a new prime-time show that more accuratly shows the gay community. just curious alex how does the show set the community back? i know, alex was asked, and i am sure he will respond, please forgive me for butting in, but i wanna weigh in on this one: the show's gay characters are the following: a nuerotic nuetered gay man attached to a str8 woman, who has no mate, no fun, and no life outside of her. a wildly campy sexpot who literally has no masculine side whatsoever and is the most shrill nelly queen to ever grace primetime TV without being seen in drag.  that's interesting...I don't watch much TV but whenever I saw this show on I thought it was about a couple boy named Will and the gal named Grace...-------------------------------------------------
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pejman said: cborgman said: pejman said: alexnevermind319 said: I agree that these shows are a good starting point. I saw on Gay.com the other night that Will & Grace is only going to be on for 2 more years. I don't know whether to be happy or sad. That show has done a lot to promote the Community, yet it has also done a lot to set it back.
Hopefully there will be a new prime-time show that more accuratly shows the gay community. just curious alex how does the show set the community back? i know, alex was asked, and i am sure he will respond, please forgive me for butting in, but i wanna weigh in on this one: the show's gay characters are the following: a nuerotic nuetered gay man attached to a str8 woman, who has no mate, no fun, and no life outside of her. a wildly campy sexpot who literally has no masculine side whatsoever and is the most shrill nelly queen to ever grace primetime TV without being seen in drag. that's interesting...I don't watch much TV but whenever I saw this show on I thought it was about a couple boy named Will and the gal named Grace...Not to mention the fact that the show is a comedy and is supposed to be funny. Bottom line for me is that there is so much to overcome that even more accurate portrayals of us on TV won't do as much as we will do ourselves by being living examples of what it means to be gay. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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i completely agree, richard. Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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Being gay is a strange and wonderful thing and we just can't help being hedonistic, showing our bodies off and be inveterate pagans in public, so the world can experience a gay bar without actually going to one.
That's why.  | |
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Aerogram said: Being gay is a strange and wonderful thing and we just can't help being hedonistic, showing our bodies off and be inveterate pagans in public, so the world can experience a gay bar without actually going to one.
That's why. The thing that is most absurd is that straight men would act exactly like the underwearing gay dudes in parades if women were as sexually driven. Straight men are so angry with us because we don't have to court someone for extended periods of time, buy dinner or play games to get sex 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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Chris,
Thank you, that was exactly what i meant. I have been away from the computer or else i would have responded sooner...I do like Will & Grace, I get the comedy value out of it...I love Karin...But I agree with Chris, you have a eunich for a main character, a hag who, for the first 3 years of the show lived solely thru her fag, Jack who is ur typical brainless fag, Karin who is obsessed with her gay friends...This is funny...but not helping out... | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Aerogram said: Being gay is a strange and wonderful thing and we just can't help being hedonistic, showing our bodies off and be inveterate pagans in public, so the world can experience a gay bar without actually going to one.
That's why. The thing that is most absurd is that straight men would act exactly like the underwearing gay dudes in parades if women were as sexually driven. Straight men are so angry with us because we don't have to court someone for extended periods of time, buy dinner or play games to get sex 
One of my female friends asked me the other day , "Travis, is it true that you don't even have to buy your date dinner to get head?"...I thought this 2 b the funniest thing that I have ever heard...I am every bit as romantic as the next guy. I am more than likely gonna buy dinner, take you to a movie/concert/opera...and not expect anything in return...  ...but of course, i don't get much in the way of the sex dept... | |
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cborgman said: all they ever show is the overbuff clones wearing thongs, high on exstacy and griding away at one another, or the drag queens. why are these the only images you see? mostly because they are a lot more interesting to watch than all the guys and girls who look like any other person who are standing there just celebrating the fact that we are one step closer to freedom and true equality.
Now keep in mind, i don't hate the clones or the drag queens, i just get tired of them being the only ones represented a lot of the time. prideful edit
[This message was edited Thu Apr 24 13:52:03 PDT 2003 by cborgman] Why are clones, drag queens etc etc always portrayed at these 'events'? Because it makes 4 'INTERESTING' TV - no disrespect 2 Joe Normal and all, but panning in on a guy stood on the side of the road in jeans and a tank top ISNT (im afraid) gonna make 'Interesting' TV - it isnt the fault of the buff muscle bois, clones, drag queens or whoever else ends up on that little square screen or gets given a few (ahem) inches in a newspaper column. The media manipulate the images that we all get spoon fed every day, and we sit back (mostly) and take it all 4 granted, and nrarely (if EVER) pay it any mind. Awake from your slumber! 
PRIDE like LIFE is simply what u make it.
The clock is ticking... PS: '... buff clones wearing thongs, high on exstacy and griding away at one another'  | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Aerogram said: Being gay is a strange and wonderful thing and we just can't help being hedonistic, showing our bodies off and be inveterate pagans in public, so the world can experience a gay bar without actually going to one.
That's why. The thing that is most absurd is that straight men would act exactly like the underwearing gay dudes in parades if women were as sexually driven. Straight men are so angry with us because we don't have to court someone for extended periods of time, buy dinner or play games to get sex I am a straight man and not at all angry with gays... then again I don't have to buy dinner or play games I just make a phone call to my select female friends that are happy to slob on the knob(or a quick booty call)...As I posted before I don't place gays in an us or you category we are all lovely human beings!!! I just love to see how much more open gays/lesbians are than when I was younger and they would hold a lot in.  to the movement... There are straight people who I have expressed my views to and they are quick to ask me if I am gay...ignorance... I tell them maybe...  -------------------------------------------------
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pejman said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Aerogram said: Being gay is a strange and wonderful thing and we just can't help being hedonistic, showing our bodies off and be inveterate pagans in public, so the world can experience a gay bar without actually going to one.
That's why. The thing that is most absurd is that straight men would act exactly like the underwearing gay dudes in parades if women were as sexually driven. Straight men are so angry with us because we don't have to court someone for extended periods of time, buy dinner or play games to get sex I am a straight man and not at all angry with gays... then again I don't have to buy dinner or play games I just make a phone call to my select female friends that are happy to slob on the knob(or a quick booty call)...As I posted before I don't place gays in an us or you category we are all lovely human beings!!! I just love to see how much more open gays/lesbians are than when I was younger and they would hold a lot in. to the movement... There are straight people who I have expressed my views to and they are quick to ask me if I am gay...ignorance... I tell them maybe... same thing with being a Prince fan...If the average rugged male meets me they think I am a thug maybe because of my appearance...once they find out I am a P fan they will sometimes immediately say why are you gay or something...I answer them yep...or something... -------------------------------------------------
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pejman said: pejman said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Aerogram said: Being gay is a strange and wonderful thing and we just can't help being hedonistic, showing our bodies off and be inveterate pagans in public, so the world can experience a gay bar without actually going to one.
That's why. The thing that is most absurd is that straight men would act exactly like the underwearing gay dudes in parades if women were as sexually driven. Straight men are so angry with us because we don't have to court someone for extended periods of time, buy dinner or play games to get sex I am a straight man and not at all angry with gays... then again I don't have to buy dinner or play games I just make a phone call to my select female friends that are happy to slob on the knob(or a quick booty call)...As I posted before I don't place gays in an us or you category we are all lovely human beings!!! I just love to see how much more open gays/lesbians are than when I was younger and they would hold a lot in. to the movement... There are straight people who I have expressed my views to and they are quick to ask me if I am gay...ignorance... I tell them maybe... same thing with being a Prince fan...If the average rugged male meets me they think I am a thug maybe because of my appearance...once they find out I am a P fan they will sometimes immediately say why are you gay or something...I answer them yep...or something... ...Amen  | |
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I was asked to contribute to this thread, but the boys have pretty much held down the fort. I agree 100% with everything cborgman, particularly, has offered here. I'll add one further theoretical thing, though...
My political nature, while very subversive when necessary, is notably understated (i.e., you'll never see me marching down the Castro in hot pants, a pink boa and a policeman's cap). I once asked a radical Marxist friend of mine about the validity of aggressive, in-your-face political action, and she explained that amid any oppressed group forging its own place in a society, radicals play a vital role -- not only do they force an otherwise largely complacent populace to deal with certain ill conventions, but they also widen the scope of what is considered "more acceptible" minority behavior. For example: What U.S. Civil Rights-style protesters did beginning in the 1950s was considered markedly shocking at the onset of their movement. But many political theorists suggest more aggressive protest styles like the Nation of Islam's or The Black Power Movement's bolstered the success of the Civil Rights camp, because mainstream America then saw it as the more palatable route of social change. It's sort of a "good cop, bad cop" thing. Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” | |
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cborgman said: alexnevermind319 said: VelvetSplash said: alexnevermind319 said: I read in the above post that being "camp" was like Jack from Will & Grace. And sadly this is the misconception that a lot of ppl have of the Gay Community. They do not realize that a lot of Gay ppl look down upon this. They don't want 2 b bunched into a group with ppl who feel that they must b "campy" to b accepted.
That was me who said the remark about Will & Grace - I'm gay, so I know that not all men are screaming queens (I'm not!) - but the question was asked "what is camp" - so I was just answering. I do not like that stereotype - but like most stereotypes, there is a degree of truth to them, and there are a lot of men like that. I agree that 2 a point there are ppl who are fitting into those stereotypes...but y is that the only image that ppl outside of the community have of the Gay community?...y are ppl from within the community not taking a stand 2 say hey, the majority of us are just like y'all...we put our pants on...we go to work...we come home...we have dinner with our loved ones...and then we go 2 bed...we are not all flamin faggots...
. [This message was edited Thu Apr 24 13:41:13 PDT 2003 by VelvetSplash] while shows like will and grace and queer as folk have done some great things by advancing the cause, they have hurt things in alot of ways too, by showing endless stereotypes. people love Jack most on that show because he defines to them what gay men are supposed to be like. QAF is full of characters who party in dark sex clubs non-stop, take drugs non-stop, fuck like bunnies, and generally cheat on one another every chance they get. this is sort of the point i was trying to make about runnin the streets in your draws on such an important day for the gay community. it just seems to be disrespectful to your cause. gay people need to remember that besides having to defend yourselves, the people that love you have alot of defending to do themselves. we take alot of shit for sticking up for you to and alot of times that's taken for granted. i've cut alot of people out of my life for disrespecting my gay friend. alot. family included. shows like queer as folk are all that straight people really know about the gay life. of course they'll take that for truth because there isn't any other show they can compare it against. i my friend is neither a will or the other real fem guy. don't hate on straight people for not knowing. first you're taught that being gay is like the worst thing in the universe then all you get to know about gay people is will and grace or queer as folk. if that's all you see that's all you'll know. but like someone said before (i think it was velvet) because normal everyday people are boring to watch so we'll never see them on tv so they have to make the characters non threatening and non sexual. it was the same thing with black people back in the day. you had to play non threatening non sexual roles to be on tv. someone pointed out that "straight people don't talk about how they run the streets naked at mardi gras so why is it a big deal if we do it during the parade" you can't seriously make a comparison to the 2 can you? mardi gras is a bunch of drunken STRAIGHT AND GAY people running the streets like baffoons for no other purpose than for being drunk naked baffoons. [This message was edited Thu Apr 24 21:14:21 PDT 2003 by IAM] | |
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cborgman said: good lord, the things i have said in this thread make me sound like such an oscar wilde wannabe
not at all. you sound alright to me. | |
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IAM said: someone pointed out that "straight people don't talk about how they run the streets naked at mardi gras so why is it a big deal if we do it during the parade"
you can't seriously make a comparison to the 2 can you? mardi gras is a bunch of drunken STRAIGHT AND GAY people running the streets like baffoons for no other purpose than for being drunk naked baffoons. I think I'm being seriously misquoted. Here's what I said: This happens during Mardi Gras and you don't hear people sayin shit. Do those straight people represent the majority of straights? I was making the point that what you are describing happens in straight society, Mardi Gras & Spring Break both come to mind, and you never hear people lambasting it. Sure you just did, only because it was brought up. You don't hear people coming out against it because it's OK for men and women to enjoy each other sexually. I'm saying it's equally ridiculous to judge all of the gay community by the overtly sexual parade patrons as it is to judge all of straight society by the "bafoons" at Mardi Gras or Spring Break. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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