That documentary on Tim Burton's Superman Lives was solid. https://en.wikipedia.org/...appened%3F

The one I'm pissed we missed out on is James Cameron's Spider-Man.

[Edited 3/14/20 6:20am]

I like everything iveseen so far. This is right up my alley.

WhisperingDandelions said:

That documentary on Tim Burton's Superman Lives was solid. https://en.wikipedia.org/...appened%3F

The one I'm pissed we missed out on is James Cameron's Spider-Man.

[Edited 3/14/20 6:20am]

So for the ending of Superman lives, Superman fights a giant Spider??? Sounds like the ending of It.............no thank you.

[Edited 3/15/20 17:56pm]

WhisperingDandelions said:

kpowers said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

That documentary on Tim Burton's Superman Lives was solid. https://en.wikipedia.org/...appened%3F

The one I'm pissed we missed out on is James Cameron's Spider-Man.

[Edited 3/14/20 6:20am]

So for the ending of Superman lives, Superman fights a giant Spider??? Sounds like the ending of It.............no thank you.

[Edited 3/15/20 17:56pm]

Superman has a great rogues gallery - what the fuck were they thinking with that shit? Sometimes these cats try to re-invent the wheel when it comes to live-action superhero films. Just stick with the source material (comic-books).

EmmaMcG said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

That documentary on Tim Burton's Superman Lives was solid. https://en.wikipedia.org/...appened%3F

The one I'm pissed we missed out on is James Cameron's Spider-Man.

[Edited 3/14/20 6:20am]

After reading the James Cameron Spider-Man script, I'm glad it was never made. Would have been a disaster. The Sam Raimi movies were far better (the first two, anyway).

Spider-man and Mary Jane having sex on a bridge????

Call me crazy, but I like the first two Raimi films better than everything that followed (including the MCU Spidey films). I didn't have a problem with the organic web-shooters, and Alfred Molina was fucking great as my favorite Spider-man bad guy (Doc-Ock).

uPtoWnNY said:

uPtoWnNY said:

EmmaMcG said:

uPtoWnNY said:

Spider-man and Mary Jane having sex on a bridge????

Call me crazy, but I like the first two Raimi films better than everything that followed (including the MCU Spidey films). I didn't have a problem with the organic web-shooters, and Alfred Molina was fucking great as my favorite Spider-man bad guy (Doc-Ock).

Yes, I agree with everything you said.

I know in the modern era comics, Tony Stark made Spider-man's costume more 'techno', but I prefer him without that shit. Raimi's version is closest to the Spider-man comics I grew up reading during the 60s, 70s & 80s. There's a scene in Spider-man 2 that's straight out of Issue #50 (when he throws his costume in the trash can and walks away).

uPtoWnNY said:

EmmaMcG said:

uPtoWnNY said:

I know in the modern era comics, Tony Stark made Spider-man's costume more 'techno', but I prefer him without that shit. Raimi's version is closest to the Spider-man comics I grew up reading during the 60s, 70s & 80s. There's a scene in Spider-man 2 that's straight out of Issue #50 (when he throws his costume in the trash can and walks away).

I don't read the comics but even just taken as movies, I prefer the Tobey Maguire Spider Man. Plus, Willem Dafoe is one of the best movie villains of all time for me. Top 10 easily. Probably top 5.

They could have done a better job on the costume....the Power Ranger look didn't work for me. I would have taken the classic Green Goblin outfit and updated it a bit.

uPtoWnNY said:

EmmaMcG said:

uPtoWnNY said:

They could have done a better job on the costume....the Power Ranger look didn't work for me. I would have taken the classic Green Goblin outfit and updated it a bit.

Costume aside (though I thought it suited the tone of the movie), it's his performance that really impressed me. It's insanely difficult to pull off that kind of performance. To be completely over the top crazy and almost cartoonish and yet still come across as scary and menacing. Jack Nicholson is a perfect example of it done right. Tommy Lee Jones as Two Face is a perfect example of it done wrong. And Tommy Lee Jones is an incredible actor so we can only chalk that one up to him clearly not giving a fuck. But Jack did. And Willem Dafoe did. And it shows.

Just horrible

kpowers said:

EmmaMcG said:

kpowers said:

Just horrible

Compare that to how Harvey Dent was portrayed in the animated series. It's no contest.

Just about all the cartoon series were better than the live action movies IMO

EmmaMcG said:

uPtoWnNY said:

They could have done a better job on the costume....the Power Ranger look didn't work for me. I would have taken the classic Green Goblin outfit and updated it a bit.

Costume aside (though I thought it suited the tone of the movie), it's his performance that really impressed me. It's insanely difficult to pull off that kind of performance. To be completely over the top crazy and almost cartoonish and yet still come across as scary and menacing. Jack Nicholson is a perfect example of it done right. Tommy Lee Jones as Two Face is a perfect example of it done wrong. And Tommy Lee Jones is an incredible actor so we can only chalk that one up to him clearly not giving a fuck. But Jack did. And Willem Dafoe did. And it shows.

I chalk it up more to that hack Joel Schumacher....when I heard him say he wanted to "make Batman FUN again", I knew the franchise was fucked. Totally screwed up Two-Face's character - turned him into Joker-Lite.And the following film was even worse. That's why I bow to Chris Nolan.

uPtoWnNY said:

EmmaMcG said:

uPtoWnNY said:

I chalk it up more to that hack Joel Schumacher....when I heard him say he wanted to "make Batman FUN again", I knew the franchise was fucked. Totally screwed up Two-Face's character - turned him into Joker-Lite.And the following film was even worse. That's why I bow to Chris Nolan.

Yeah, the first Nolan movie was really good. Wasn't too crazy about The Dark Knight. It was ok but definitely overhyped. But the third Nolan movie was just plain boring. I don't believe that Batman can really be done properly in a movie. The Tim Burton movies are as close as they've come to making a truly great live action Batman but even then, there was something missing. It's a story that needs to be given air to breathe. A live action TV series by the writers of the animated series would be the way to go. And not like the crap on the CW. Do it more like The Wire or something.

Batman Returns wasn't on the same level as Batman '89. Danny DeVito ruined the movie with his over-the-top Penguin. Plus, the movie looked like it was filmed on a studio lot...just a weird film. Might have been better with a great Batman/Catwoman storyline.

For me, The Dark Knight is the apex of superhero films (followed by Spider-man 2, The Incredible Hulk, Avengers 2012, Black Panther, Civil War & Man of Steel).

[Edited 3/17/20 15:17pm]

kpowers said:

EmmaMcG said:

kpowers said: Compare that to how Harvey Dent was portrayed in the animated series. It's no contest.

Just about all the cartoon series were better than the live action movies IMO

WB could have set up the DCEU nicely had they made Man of Steel 2 first, a stand alone Batman film, Wonder Woman, then BvS. But they tried to do everything in one film with mixed results.

uPtoWnNY said:

uPtoWnNY said:

EmmaMcG said:

uPtoWnNY said:

Batman Returns wasn't on the same level as Batman '89. Danny DeVito ruined the movie with his over-the-top Penguin. Plus, the movie looked like it was filmed on a studio lot...just a weird film. Might have been better with a great Batman/Catwoman storyline.

For me, The Dark Knight is the apex of superhero films (followed by Spider-man 2, The Incredible Hulk, Avengers 2012, Black Panther, Civil War & Man of Steel).

[Edited 3/17/20 15:17pm]

The Incredible Hulk??

Hell yeah.....Ed Norton was the perfect Bruce Banner, and his Hulk was monstrous and badass, the way he fought the military and the Abomination. Marvel nerfed the Hulk after that, and Mark Ruffalo was a poor choice for Banner. I heard it was Norton's fault he wasn't involved in the MCU after The Incredible Hulk, but who knows?

EmmaMcG said:

uPtoWnNY said:

WB could have set up the DCEU nicely had they made Man of Steel 2 first, a stand alone Batman film, Wonder Woman, then BvS. But they tried to do everything in one film with mixed results.

Basically, had they followed the Marvel formula, it could have worked. They rushed into the Justice League and did what WB always do to superhero movies. They fucked it up. I keep trying to give them the benefit of the doubt because I'm holding out hope for a real Superman movie at some point and a good Batman movie but it doesn't look like either is going to happen. Man of Steel was ok but in hindsight, it doesn't work. Both Batman and Superman can't be depressed and serious. Superman has to be more light-hearted for that dynamic to work in a Justice League movie. The CGI fest fight scene ruined it. Batman vs Superman had a good director's cut but it feels more like a Batman movie with Superman in it. Ben Affleck was great but like I said, Superman's tone was all wrong. And once again, the CGI fest fight scene ruined it. Along with the worst Lex Luthor of all time. Wonder Woman was really good and Gal Gadot is perfect in the role. The first 2 thirds of the movie was a perfect introduction to her character. But the CGI fest fight scene ruined it. Suicide Squad was a complete and utter travesty. Nothing about it was salvageable. Just a disaster. Aquaman was pretty good. Again, perfectly cast main role. CGI still dodgy but much better than previous movies and thankfully the finale didn't devolve into cartoon bullshit. A solid 3 out of 5. Shazam was stupid. Tried too hard to be funny and failed miserably. And has a truly hateable lead character. Birds of Prey was better than Suicide Squad but still really, really shit. Harley Quinn should never be presented as a lead character. Ever. The next Batman movie looks horrible. Literally everything we've seen so far has turned me off. I'm just not interested anymore. Suicide Squad 2, or The Suicide Squad, as it's called, could actually be decent if James Gunn brings some of the Guardians charm to it. But I won't hold my breath. Wonder Woman 84 looks a bit crap judging by the trailer. I'll give it a chance but I'm not expecting much. Black Adam sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. When was the last time The Rock was in a good movie? No sign of The Flash, Superman or anyone else getting solo movies. I think I've reached the point where I've given up on DC movies.

WB would have to reboot the DCEU to get it right, but they'd probably fuck it up again. It's a lost cause.

EmmaMcG said:

uPtoWnNY said:

I chalk it up more to that hack Joel Schumacher....when I heard him say he wanted to "make Batman FUN again", I knew the franchise was fucked. Totally screwed up Two-Face's character - turned him into Joker-Lite.And the following film was even worse. That's why I bow to Chris Nolan.

Yeah, the first Nolan movie was really good. Wasn't too crazy about The Dark Knight. It was ok but definitely overhyped. But the third Nolan movie was just plain boring. I don't believe that Batman can really be done properly in a movie. The Tim Burton movies are as close as they've come to making a truly great live action Batman but even then, there was something missing. It's a story that needs to be given air to breathe. A live action TV series by the writers of the animated series would be the way to go. And not like the crap on the CW. Do it more like The Wire or something.

It's horrible because of Greg Berlanti and he should not be allowed to do any tv show.

EmmaMcG said:

uPtoWnNY said:

WB could have set up the DCEU nicely had they made Man of Steel 2 first, a stand alone Batman film, Wonder Woman, then BvS. But they tried to do everything in one film with mixed results.

Basically, had they followed the Marvel formula, it could have worked. They rushed into the Justice League and did what WB always do to superhero movies. They fucked it up. I keep trying to give them the benefit of the doubt because I'm holding out hope for a real Superman movie at some point and a good Batman movie but it doesn't look like either is going to happen. Man of Steel was ok but in hindsight, it doesn't work. Both Batman and Superman can't be depressed and serious. Superman has to be more light-hearted for that dynamic to work in a Justice League movie. The CGI fest fight scene ruined it. Batman vs Superman had a good director's cut but it feels more like a Batman movie with Superman in it. Ben Affleck was great but like I said, Superman's tone was all wrong. And once again, the CGI fest fight scene ruined it. Along with the worst Lex Luthor of all time. Wonder Woman was really good and Gal Gadot is perfect in the role. The first 2 thirds of the movie was a perfect introduction to her character. But the CGI fest fight scene ruined it. Suicide Squad was a complete and utter travesty. Nothing about it was salvageable. Just a disaster. Aquaman was pretty good. Again, perfectly cast main role. CGI still dodgy but much better than previous movies and thankfully the finale didn't devolve into cartoon bullshit. A solid 3 out of 5. Shazam was stupid. Tried too hard to be funny and failed miserably. And has a truly hateable lead character. Birds of Prey was better than Suicide Squad but still really, really shit. Harley Quinn should never be presented as a lead character. Ever. The next Batman movie looks horrible. Literally everything we've seen so far has turned me off. I'm just not interested anymore. Suicide Squad 2, or The Suicide Squad, as it's called, could actually be decent if James Gunn brings some of the Guardians charm to it. But I won't hold my breath. Wonder Woman 84 looks a bit crap judging by the trailer. I'll give it a chance but I'm not expecting much. Black Adam sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. When was the last time The Rock was in a good movie? No sign of The Flash, Superman or anyone else getting solo movies. I think I've reached the point where I've given up on DC movies.

I only have faith in Wonder Woman. Even if Wonder Woman 84 is just ok, I'm sure if they make more sequels they will probably be good as long as Gal Gadot is in it. The only thing good in Superman V Batman and the Justice League was wonder Woman in it.

[Edited 3/18/20 9:26am]

uPtoWnNY said:

EmmaMcG said:

uPtoWnNY said: Basically, had they followed the Marvel formula, it could have worked. They rushed into the Justice League and did what WB always do to superhero movies. They fucked it up. I keep trying to give them the benefit of the doubt because I'm holding out hope for a real Superman movie at some point and a good Batman movie but it doesn't look like either is going to happen. Man of Steel was ok but in hindsight, it doesn't work. Both Batman and Superman can't be depressed and serious. Superman has to be more light-hearted for that dynamic to work in a Justice League movie. The CGI fest fight scene ruined it. Batman vs Superman had a good director's cut but it feels more like a Batman movie with Superman in it. Ben Affleck was great but like I said, Superman's tone was all wrong. And once again, the CGI fest fight scene ruined it. Along with the worst Lex Luthor of all time. Wonder Woman was really good and Gal Gadot is perfect in the role. The first 2 thirds of the movie was a perfect introduction to her character. But the CGI fest fight scene ruined it. Suicide Squad was a complete and utter travesty. Nothing about it was salvageable. Just a disaster. Aquaman was pretty good. Again, perfectly cast main role. CGI still dodgy but much better than previous movies and thankfully the finale didn't devolve into cartoon bullshit. A solid 3 out of 5. Shazam was stupid. Tried too hard to be funny and failed miserably. And has a truly hateable lead character. Birds of Prey was better than Suicide Squad but still really, really shit. Harley Quinn should never be presented as a lead character. Ever. The next Batman movie looks horrible. Literally everything we've seen so far has turned me off. I'm just not interested anymore. Suicide Squad 2, or The Suicide Squad, as it's called, could actually be decent if James Gunn brings some of the Guardians charm to it. But I won't hold my breath. Wonder Woman 84 looks a bit crap judging by the trailer. I'll give it a chance but I'm not expecting much. Black Adam sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. When was the last time The Rock was in a good movie? No sign of The Flash, Superman or anyone else getting solo movies. I think I've reached the point where I've given up on DC movies.

WB would have to reboot the DCEU to get it right, but they'd probably fuck it up again. It's a lost cause.

You would think WB would have learned by now that everytime they meddle with the movies they turn out shit. I think they should just hand the DCEU back to Snyder and let him release his version of Justice League and let him finish what he had planned for that trilogy and then do a Flashpoint or just reboot with all new actors.

JorisE73 said:

uPtoWnNY said:

WB would have to reboot the DCEU to get it right, but they'd probably fuck it up again. It's a lost cause.

You would think WB would have learned by now that everytime they meddle with the movies they turn out shit. I think they should just hand the DCEU back to Snyder and let him release his version of Justice League and let him finish what he had planned for that trilogy and then do a Flashpoint or just reboot with all new actors.

Give it to Bruce Timm

uPtoWnNY said:

EmmaMcG said:

uPtoWnNY said: Yeah, the first Nolan movie was really good. Wasn't too crazy about The Dark Knight. It was ok but definitely overhyped. But the third Nolan movie was just plain boring. I don't believe that Batman can really be done properly in a movie. The Tim Burton movies are as close as they've come to making a truly great live action Batman but even then, there was something missing. It's a story that needs to be given air to breathe. A live action TV series by the writers of the animated series would be the way to go. And not like the crap on the CW. Do it more like The Wire or something.

Batman Returns wasn't on the same level as Batman '89. Danny DeVito ruined the movie with his over-the-top Penguin. Plus, the movie looked like it was filmed on a studio lot...just a weird film. Might have been better with a great Batman/Catwoman storyline.

For me, The Dark Knight is the apex of superhero films (followed by Spider-man 2, The Incredible Hulk, Avengers 2012, Black Panther, Civil War & Man of Steel).

[Edited 3/17/20 15:17pm]

I don't think Danny Devito was way to over the top, maybe a little. Honestly I really liked Christopher Walken, especially when he pushed Catwoman out the window.

[Edited 3/18/20 10:06am]

kpowers said:

JorisE73 said:

You would think WB would have learned by now that everytime they meddle with the movies they turn out shit. I think they should just hand the DCEU back to Snyder and let him release his version of Justice League and let him finish what he had planned for that trilogy and then do a Flashpoint or just reboot with all new actors.

Give it to Bruce Timm

That would be great for a complete reboot with different actors. Let Snyder finish his version off.

JorisE73 said: