Ugot2shakesumthin said:

That's pretty cool. Is Ewan Mcgregor coming back or are they recasting?

EmmaMcG said:

It seems he is. And I’ve read he is also directing some of the episodes. We’ll know more later this month

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

The fact of the matter is the movie got great reviews and ticket-sales were the best of that year. I like, others don’t and that cool. . But If you do any quick cursory glance at the loudest and angriest voices on the internet regarding TLJ, you’ll see it’s mostly from angry folks who’s thumbnail of the review shows Rey and a “no-female” symbol under it, as in this one https://youtu.be/EQk7XqNR1kQ . It’s ok for dork culture to like what it likes, but we should take the vitriol for what it is and like anything else, look at the source, and let it go at that.

Here is a different view of the movies interest

‘Star Wars: The Last Jedi’ falls short in China

But the film was no match for the light-hearted “The Ex-File 3: The Return of The Exes,” which topped the box office with $154.8 million in ticket sales. The film about relationships has generated more than $200 million at the box office in 10 days, making it the 11th highest-grossing local film in China.

Feng Xiaogang’s period epic “Youth” finally lost some steam, although it earned an additional $26.2 million to gross $208.9 million in nearly a month.

Hong Kong actress Sandra Ng’s directorial debut, “Goldbuster,” a horror-comedy, pulled in $15.4 million to bring its 10-day total to $54.1 million.

Chinese fantasy comedy “Hanson and the Beast,” starring Disney’s new “Mulan” actress, Liu Yifei, garnered $14.9 million for a 10-day total of $41 million.

Chris Avellone has built up a huge fanbase from his work on writing ‘Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic’ and the most recent game from Respawn Entertainment and EA. Recently, he was asked how he felt about the penultimate film in The Skywalker Saga, and like many, he didn’t enjoy it.

When it comes to what Avellone felt was the biggest flaw of the movie:

“I thought that portrayal of Luke Skywalker was very weak. I thought they gave him a scapegoat role that wasn’t merited and didn’t fit with his character, in my opinion. I like the fact that they were playing around with it, but at the same time, I didn’t like the execution, and I thought it could have been handled a lot better or differently.”

It wasn’t just how Luke Skywalker was portrayed that got to the writer, though, and the following pieces are what I can fully agree with:

“I also thought it was a case of comedy goes too far, side characters and massive detour plots were rapidly introduced… I liked what they were trying to do, I just didn’t like how it was executed.”

I’m pretty sure he is referring to Canto Bight which was ridiculous when pairing it with the slowest high-speed space chase of all time.

Fans either love or hate what went wrong in the eighth installment of the saga and while I don’t entirely agree with his assessment of Skywalker, I can get behind everything else Avellone thinks about the film.

We’ll have to see if J.J. Abrams can win fans back over with ‘Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker.’

https://sciencefiction.com/2019/08/13/the-star-wars-jedi-fallen-order-writer-shares-what-he-feels-fell-short-on-star-wars-the-last-jedi/

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Eight Reasons Why “The Last Jedi” Kind of Sucks for Hardcore “Star Wars” Fans

https://www.verbicidemagazine.com/2017/12/19/8-reasons-the-last-jedi-kinda-sucked-for-hardcore-fans/

1. So….Rey’s parentage meant…..nothing

“Who’s the girl?” Maz Kanata asked. “What girl?” Kylo Ren asked.

The mystery of Rey’s parentage has been the single biggest mystery of this new Star Wars trilogy, and The Last Jedi finally answers the mystery of who Rey’s parents are. The answer is nobody special, apparently. Just two drunkards who left their daughter in a life of servitude.

She’s not a Solo. She’s not a Skywalker. She’s not a Kenobi. She’s not a Palpatine. She’s not a Luke clone. She’s just a regular person with Force abilities.

Hmmm. Alright, I’d buy that, I suppose — but in The Force Awakens, Rey is so incredibly powerful that she is actually able to defeat a Luke Skywalker-trained Kylo Ren in a light saber battle fairly easily. She was also trotting around Jedi mind-tricking Storm Troopers into doing whatever she wanted without any formal training in the ways of the Force.

The question is, why even create a mystery surrounding Rey’s parentage if the answer is super-inconsequential to the overall narrative? JJ Abrams created this entire mystery around Rey’s background that has a very unsatisfying resolution. It’s almost as if he is the same guy who created Lost or something…wait a second…

2. So Supreme Leader Snoke meant….nothing.

So Supreme Leader Snoke — the big bad super-villain portrayed by motion capture legend Andy Serkis (for seemingly no reason because he just sits in a chair the entire movie) — gets cut in half by Kylo Ren as he gives Rey the typical “this is my evil plan” speech. We don’t know who Snoke was, why he was so obsessed with Luke Skywalker, why he was so disfigured, why he was so powerful, where he came from, how he became supreme leader of The First Order, how he actually lured Kylo to the dark side, how old he was, why he likes gold bath robes,….. You get the point.

Snoke was powerful enough to do a lot of things. Unfortunately, he was not powerful enough to sense the light saber Kylo Ren was Force-aiming towards him that was mere inches away. Hmm…alrighty then. Considering that he is only chunks of bantha fodder now, Snoke seemingly had no real purpose for anything.

Another JJ Abrams care package of unresolved nothingness. Rian Johnson takes a fair share of the blame for this train wreck as well.

3. So, that Dark Side hole on Ahch-To that called out to Rey meant…nothing

Luke yells at Rey to resist the temptation of the Dark Side hole on Ahch-To that was calling out to her as he started to train her in the ways of the Force. Eventually Rey gets yanked into that hole anyway, only to find herself in some kinda weird psychedelic kaleidoscopey Neil deGrasse Tyson acid trip. She saw a whole bunch of other Reys down there, and at this point the movie goes full McConaughey Interstellar mode as the multiple Reys display a time displacement in their actions without the movie giving any semblance of an explanation for what is happening, or what any of it meant.

Rian Johnson takes the full brunt for the gaping nothingness of this moment. It’s just a spooky scene that looks visually appealing and adds absolutely nothing to the ongoing narrative.

Honorable Mentions

4. Don’t expect to get any additional information on why Captain Phasma matters.

5. What happened to Benecio Del Toro’s DJ character? Since he was not the master codebreaker they were looking for how was he skilled enough to bypass The First Order’s defense systems?

6. Why did Luke’s light saber call out to Rey since she isn’t a Skywalker?

7. Kylo’s decision to spare his mother’s life, which should have been a pivotal moment is never addressed.

8. Who created the map to Luke Skywalker in The Force Awakens, since Luke obviously has no desire to be found in The Last Jedi?

Verdict

The Last Jedi is an above-average run-of-the-mill blockbuster movie for casual moviegoers who just want to see some stuff blow up while characters fight with glowy sticks. For the hardcore fans, this movie is really a freshly concocted steaming bowl of plot hole stew.

As a result, I am no longer excited for whatever comes next from Rian Johnson’s recently announced new Star Wars trilogy. I am also no longer excited for what’s to come in the sequel to The Last Jedi because this film leaves nothing to look forward to in the future.

The Last Jedi also has other issues besides plot holes. There are pacing problems. The movie is cut in an odd fashion where characters show up in different places than you saw them in their previous scene without any explanation as to how they got there. With all of these problems, I can’t help but wonder what George Lucas originally intended for the stories of the three movies to come after Return of the Jedi before Disney scrapped his plans in favor or charting off on their own course. If The Last Jedi is any indication, they might have been better sticking to what Lucas intended.

That sounds like it was written by an angry child who didn't get his own way

standard reply by anyone not willing/able to adress the issues and problems of that clusterfuck movie.

you can do better than that. try again.

EmmaMcG said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

The fact of the matter is the movie got great reviews and ticket-sales were the best of that year. I like, others don’t and that cool. . But If you do any quick cursory glance at the loudest and angriest voices on the internet regarding TLJ, you’ll see it’s mostly from angry folks who’s thumbnail of the review shows Rey and a “no-female” symbol under it, as in this one https://youtu.be/EQk7XqNR1kQ . It’s ok for dork culture to like what it likes, but we should take the vitriol for what it is and like anything else, look at the source, and let it go at that.

There's no denying that certain "fans" were put off by having a woman in the lead role. But I don't think that's the main reason for the majority of people's issues with it. I mean, I've seen defenders of the recent Ghostbusters remake use that same argument. Saying that the only reason it failed was because there were women in it. But that's not true. It failed because it was shit and an insult to the original.

agreed. a strong women lead is not the problem. Alien and Terminator did that ages ago.

lazy writing and shitty storytelling is the poblem. with Ghostbusters and TLJ

It's kind of a similar situation with Star Wars. Now, I personally really like the new Star Wars movies but I can see where long time fans of the series like OldFriends4Sale are coming from. The Last Jedi was different to what they were used to. The original heroes are no longer taking centre stage. The new lead is (apparently) not related to the Skywalkers or Kenobis. Personally, I like these changes. But long time fans have been discussing what happened following Episode 6 since well before I was born and they've all got their own opinions on how things should play out. The fact that The Last Jedi was so different to what they could have expected is what I think bothers them more than the fact that the new protagonist is female.

I loved TFA. and I had no problem with new characters taking over, to the contrary, anything else would have been silly after 30 years. I also had no problem with Rose, and I LOVED Rey from the moment she first appeared collecting junk in that wrecked star destroyer. Kylo was good, Finn was cool. only Poe came over a bit flat, but so what

the MAIN problem with TLJ was not that it disconnected with the original trilogy.

the main problem was that it disconnected with its direct predecessor TFA (!!) and dropped everything.

if I hadn't seen any of the original six SW movies, that problem would still not go away.

that fucker simply did not care. it was just a pathetic ego-tripping attempt that Rian made to pitch his own seperate trilogy with that broomstick boy, the latter being the only reason for inserting that useless wasted Canto Bight side plot. bad baaaad storytelling

[Edited 8/20/19 6:24am]

I actually have far more issues with TFA and think it's far more lazy.(yet another Death Star) Nothing original and the storytelling almost incompetent. I have a hard time rewatching it.

.

people don't want to admit it, but there absolutely is an issue with females, minorities and supposed SJW whatever tha is. Maybe not everyone, just as you can't blanket-statement ANYTHING, but there is a heavy recurring haze of that almost the most fervent.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

I actually have far more issues with TFA and think it's far more lazy.(yet another Death Star) Nothing original and the storytelling almost incompetent. I have a hard time rewatching it.

.

people don't want to admit it, but there absolutely is an issue with females, minorities and supposed SJW whatever tha is. Maybe not everyone, just as you can't blanket-statement ANYTHING, but there is a heavy recurring haze of that almost the most fervent.

I think some of that is just like you say 'living in their mothers basement adult boys' But overall fans don't have a problem with those. Because we had an abundant of them in the LEGENDS novels. Non Humans, Female characters etc There would have been no complaints if the Emporers Hand Mara Jade made her appearence on film or any of the many female characters, human or non. The female characters that were presented with the epis 1 - 3 and Clone Wars good and bad were loved by the SW Fan base. Mace Windu, the New Zealand Boba Fett and all the various ethnicities used for the Jedi Order.


No doubt if a Mace Windu, Lando Calrissian, (Mara Jade) characters appeared there would be nothing but cheers.

Remember they went after SOLO too, and there was no female lead to that one.

[Edited 8/20/19 9:18am]

BombSquad said:

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said: That sounds like it was written by an angry child who didn't get his own way

standard reply by anyone not willing/able to adress the issues and problems of that clusterfuck movie.

you can do better than that. try again.

The article beats a dead "Fathier"

We all know the film has its flaws. The article re-hashes several of them. The problem is that the plot holes identified by the author may be tied up in TRoS , which hasn't been released. No need to bicker about plot holes in an incomplete trilogy. If those holes aren't filled in 4 months, then it's time to complain.

There isn't a SW fan who does NOT, deep down, think they could make better SW films than Disney or Lucas, who've given us fans a lot of reasons to feel that way. But TLJ on balance is better than its detractors give it credit for, flaws and all.

BombSquad:

agreed. a strong women lead is not the problem. Alien and Terminator did that ages ago.

lazy writing and shitty storytelling is the problem. with Ghostbusters and TLJ

The writing had flaws - the Canto Bight sidetrack fell flat. It was meant as an allegory for the new Gilded Age and the military industrial complex. But it didn't belong in the movie. But the writing wasn't lazy, it was just ambitious and missed the mark a few times.

I loved TFA. and I had no problem with new characters taking over, to the contrary, anything else would have been silly after 30 years. I also had no problem with Rose, and I LOVED Rey from the moment she first appeared collecting junk in that wrecked star destroyer. Kylo was good, Finn was cool. only Poe came over a bit flat, but so what

the MAIN problem with TLJ was not that it disconnected with the original trilogy.

the main problem was that it disconnected with its direct predecessor TFA (!!) and dropped everything.

if I hadn't seen any of the original six SW movies, that problem would still not go away.

that fucker simply did not care. it was just a pathetic ego-tripping attempt that Rian made to pitch his own seperate trilogy with that broomstick boy, the latter being the only reason for inserting that useless wasted Canto Bight side plot. bad baaaad storytelling

TFA was far more derivative and repetitive than TLJ was. And TLJ wasn't completely disconnected from TFA. And somehow, nobody accounts for the fact that Carrie Fisher died before the film was completed. That must have been a huge hole to fill. But we can agree that Rian went in different directions and went off on some ill-advised tangents.

The best of SW film, ESB, was also a shock to fans when it was released and departed from the feel and look of its direct predecessor.

BombSquad said:

I've already talked about my feelings on the movie quite a lot, in this thread and others. But that doesn't change the fact that that article comes across like it was written by a child who didn't get his own way. Like, complaining about no resolution to Rey's parentage, Snoke's impact on the story etc when there's still a whole other movie to go. How do we know who's Rey's parents are? Perhaps the next movie will explain that. Likewise, Snoke. Who knows where he'll show up next. Complaining about a story which hasn't finished yet is childish.

Thank God the internet wasn't around when the original trilogy came out.

Preaching the TRUTH. And I'm not one of those dickwads constantly whining about "woke af" Hollywood films. It's not about gender or diversity. TLJ is just a piece of shit.

BombSquad said:

that fucker simply did not care. it was just a pathetic ego-tripping attempt that Rian made to pitch his own seperate trilogy with that broomstick boy, the latter being the only reason for inserting that useless wasted Canto Bight side plot. bad baaaad storytelling

YouTube video

I obviously agree with everything said in this critique.

Everything Great About The Last Jedi

https://youtu.be/UCnm-3tnL3Q

...granted, there is also a video on "Everything Great About Revenge Of The Sith" and I just couldn't watch it. Nothing redeeming about the prequels.

[Edited 8/21/19 19:32pm]

I know I know, but here is yet another video with someone way better with words than me making good points.

https://youtu.be/GVlicj-JwnI

Remove the 'Resistance' and the First Order(?), Rey a Knight in training at the Jedi Academy. Luke Skywalker the Jedi Master(but his role only distant) The Republic Alliance, Kyloa a dark side force user and set it in a side story in the Star Wars Universe, that would work.

.
It's the tearing down of previous generations just wiping out everything that was with no real future direction. A build up of hot air, Snoke, Rey's parentage. 'the REBELS' literally being wiped out. A First Order more powerful than Palpatines Empire with resources enought to build a Planetoid Death Star able to wipe out 4? worlds in one shot. etc it all just bloated and convoluted. TLJ did not resolve and further anything of the TFA. As ESB did resolve and further ANH.

.

I don't think the 'investment' is going to be worth it.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Remove the 'Resistance' and the First Order(?), Rey a Knight in training at the Jedi Academy. Luke Skywalker the Jedi Master(but his role only distant) The Republic Alliance, Kyloa a dark side force user and set it in a side story in the Star Wars Universe, that would


It's the tearing down of previous generations just wiping out everything that was with no real future direction. A build up of hot air, Snoke, Rey's parentage. 'the REBELS' literally being wiped out. A First Order more powerful than Palpatines Empire with resources enought to build a Planetoid Death Star able to wipe out 4? worlds in one shot. etc it all just bloated and convoluted. TLJ did not resolve and further anything of the TFA. As ESB did resolve and further ANH.

I don't think the 'investment' is going to be worth it.

ESB most certainly did not resolve anything in ANH. It furthered the plot lines but it left some huge cliffhangers and threw a shocking plot twist in towards the end. RoTJ resolved those cliffhangers, not ESB. Without the context of RoTJ, ESB -- a far superior film to any that came after -- doesn't make any more sense than TLJ would make now, as we wait for the final installment. (We overlook the similarities between ESB and TLJ, but that's another thread).

None of us know Rey's heritage (if you want to take Ben at his word, be my guest, but I don't). None of us know whether Snoke will be explained. None of us know how it ends.

We all need to stop wailing and gnashing teeth about TLJ until TRoS.

namepeace said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Remove the 'Resistance' and the First Order(?), Rey a Knight in training at the Jedi Academy. Luke Skywalker the Jedi Master(but his role only distant) The Republic Alliance, Kyloa a dark side force user and set it in a side story in the Star Wars Universe, that would


It's the tearing down of previous generations just wiping out everything that was with no real future direction. A build up of hot air, Snoke, Rey's parentage. 'the REBELS' literally being wiped out. A First Order more powerful than Palpatines Empire with resources enought to build a Planetoid Death Star able to wipe out 4? worlds in one shot. etc it all just bloated and convoluted. TLJ did not resolve and further anything of the TFA. As ESB did resolve and further ANH.

I don't think the 'investment' is going to be worth it.

ESB most certainly did not resolve anything in ANH. It furthered the plot lines but it left some huge cliffhangers and threw a shocking plot twist in towards the end. RoTJ resolved those cliffhangers, not ESB. Without the context of RoTJ, ESB -- a far superior film to any that came after -- doesn't make any more sense than TLJ would make now, as we wait for the final installment. (We overlook the similarities between ESB and TLJ, but that's another thread).

None of us know Rey's heritage (if you want to take Ben at his word, be my guest, but I don't). None of us know whether Snoke will be explained. None of us know how it ends.

We all need to stop wailing and gnashing teeth about TLJ until TRoS.

when I say resolved I'm just talking about the continuum. ANH ESB ROTJ move hand in hand.
Stuff in ANH became clearer in ESB and stuff in ESB became clearer in ROTJ. I understand the build to each movie.

.

ESB still gives continuum. I can go back to ANH and say 'ahhhh' that is what this means or that is who this is... I don't get that with TLJ.

.

I've always seen the similarities in ESB + ROTJ and TLJ, which is why it was disappointing.

.

It was Kylo that talked about Rey's heritage. And I feel with what the writers are doing to the characters, and what Kylo said to Rey about 'what was...' I really think Rey might come from regular people. vs Luke & Leia who came from Royalty and Jedi Knight superstardom.

.

Why, this is the stuff that generates interest. I waited for TLJ and was disappointed. Period. I cannot ignore my reaction to the story and what I'm seeing. I'm generally not someone who finds fault with much. I don't look for issues in movies, which is why I can watch most of my favs over and over again. With all of Purple Rains issues, I see no fault in it. But I do with Graffiti Bridge. I love UTCM and wish it did not end the way it did, but I can still watch it.

.

Even with my issues with TFA and TLJ(they have to work together and they just don't) I can still appreciate the concept art of these attempts. I don't own the dvds, but I do have the Art/Making of books. I probably have more fan/concept art of the movies than all of you champions put together lol but I know I respond reasonably to what I'm seeing.

.

The people who champion TLJ and TFA will tell those who critique it to stop critiquing it and just be happy we are getting a star wars movie...

[Edited 8/23/19 9:18am]

[Edited 8/23/19 9:25am]

Was this group below pictured or mentioned in TLJ?

Knights of Ren by Rafal Rola

OldFriends4Sale said:

namepeace said:

ESB most certainly did not resolve anything in ANH. It furthered the plot lines but it left some huge cliffhangers and threw a shocking plot twist in towards the end. RoTJ resolved those cliffhangers, not ESB. Without the context of RoTJ, ESB -- a far superior film to any that came after -- doesn't make any more sense than TLJ would make now, as we wait for the final installment. (We overlook the similarities between ESB and TLJ, but that's another thread).

None of us know Rey's heritage (if you want to take Ben at his word, be my guest, but I don't). None of us know whether Snoke will be explained. None of us know how it ends.

We all need to stop wailing and gnashing teeth about TLJ until TRoS.

when I say resolved I'm just talking about the continuum. ANH ESB ROTJ move hand in hand.
Stuff in ANH became clearer in ESB and stuff in ESB became clearer in ROTJ. I understand the build to each movie.

.

ESB still gives continuum. I can go back to ANH and say 'ahhhh' that is what this means or that is who this is... I don't get that with TLJ.

.

I've always seen the similarities in ESB + ROTJ and TLJ, which is why it was disappointing.

.

It was Kylo that talked about Rey's heritage. And I feel with what the writers are doing to the characters, and what Kylo said to Rey about 'what was...' I really think Rey might come from regular people. vs Luke & Leia who came from Royalty and Jedi Knight superstardom.

.

Why, this is the stuff that generates interest. I waited for TLJ and was disappointed. Period. I cannot ignore my reaction to the story and what I'm seeing. I'm generally not someone who finds fault with much. I don't look for issues in movies, which is why I can watch most of my favs over and over again. With all of Purple Rains issues, I see no fault in it. But I do with Graffiti Bridge. I love UTCM and wish it did not end the way it did, but I can still watch it.

My very first post about this admitted the flaws in TLJ. I had very high hopes for Rian's take on TLJ. Can't say he hit it, but the film was still good.

Even with my issues with TFA and TLJ(they have to work together and they just don't) I can still appreciate the concept art of these attempts. I don't own the dvds, but I do have the Art/Making of books. I probably have more fan/concept art of the movies than all of you champions put together lol but I know I respond reasonably to what I'm seeing.

No one questions your SW fandom. Clearly you are a fan and I'm not in the business of questioning the depth of anyone's fandom -- Prince, Star Wars or otherwise.

The people who champion TLJ and TFA will tell those who critique it to stop critiquing it and just be happy we are getting a star wars movie...

You're not hearing that from this TLJ apologist. What you are hearing is that (i) it's a good film that is getting a bad rap, and (ii) reserve full judgment until TRoS because the damn story isn't finished yet.

Heck, I may even agree with the TLJ critics after this is done. I defended GoT until the last episode because I said "wait to see how it finishes before passing judgment" and then sided with the critics of the later seasons when the finale fell flat.

TLJ critics will either warm up to the film in the future, or TLJ apologists will realize it's worse than we thought after further reflection.

But we ARE fortunate to get any new films at all, and that overall they're a cut above the last batch.

[Edited 8/23/19 9:18am]

[Edited 8/23/19 9:25am]

namepeace said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

when I say resolved I'm just talking about the continuum. ANH ESB ROTJ move hand in hand.
Stuff in ANH became clearer in ESB and stuff in ESB became clearer in ROTJ. I understand the build to each movie.

.

ESB still gives continuum. I can go back to ANH and say 'ahhhh' that is what this means or that is who this is... I don't get that with TLJ.

.

I've always seen the similarities in ESB + ROTJ and TLJ, which is why it was disappointing.

.

It was Kylo that talked about Rey's heritage. And I feel with what the writers are doing to the characters, and what Kylo said to Rey about 'what was...' I really think Rey might come from regular people. vs Luke & Leia who came from Royalty and Jedi Knight superstardom.

.

Why, this is the stuff that generates interest. I waited for TLJ and was disappointed. Period. I cannot ignore my reaction to the story and what I'm seeing. I'm generally not someone who finds fault with much. I don't look for issues in movies, which is why I can watch most of my favs over and over again. With all of Purple Rains issues, I see no fault in it. But I do with Graffiti Bridge. I love UTCM and wish it did not end the way it did, but I can still watch it.

My very first post about this admitted the flaws in TLJ. I had very high hopes for Rian's take on TLJ. Can't say he hit it, but the film was still good.

Even with my issues with TFA and TLJ(they have to work together and they just don't) I can still appreciate the concept art of these attempts. I don't own the dvds, but I do have the Art/Making of books. I probably have more fan/concept art of the movies than all of you champions put together lol but I know I respond reasonably to what I'm seeing.

No one questions your SW fandom. Clearly you are a fan and I'm not in the business of questioning the depth of anyone's fandom -- Prince, Star Wars or otherwise.

The people who champion TLJ and TFA will tell those who critique it to stop critiquing it and just be happy we are getting a star wars movie...

You're not hearing that from this TLJ apologist. What you are hearing is that (i) it's a good film that is getting a bad rap, and (ii) reserve full judgment until TRoS because the damn story isn't finished yet.

Heck, I may even agree with the TLJ critics after this is done. I defended GoT until the last episode because I said "wait to see how it finishes before passing judgment" and then sided with the critics of the later seasons when the finale fell flat.

TLJ critics will either warm up to the film in the future, or TLJ apologists will realize it's worse than we thought after further reflection.

But we ARE fortunate to get any new films at all, and that overall they're a cut above the last batch.

[Edited 8/23/19 9:18am]

[Edited 8/23/19 9:25am]

It is cool we have different takes but don't say 'stop wailing and nashing of teeth' if someone criticizes it. ya know. It's like saying 'just be happy and except it'. No lol I mean some of us are more 'invested' in the SW legacy. Star Wars & Prince are my two guilty pleasures. I'm invested.

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What other movies with Pt I II II IV V etc have had one or two fall flat? If the way Luke Skywalker and Leia were handled doesn't sit well with me, I'm not going to dig it. If they are playing with the Force in a way that doesn't fit with script, it's not going to sit well with me. If you are presenting a non-force user as if he is a Jedi Knight, it's not going to sit well with me. These things cannot be overlooked in hopes the last movie tells a story.

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Leave the Millenium Falcon out of it, if Rey has to take captian chair. Leave it with Chewbacca, but give Rey her own ship. Why cannot they just give her her own ship. Droids are common place in ST, and I love the majority of droids, so I don't have a problem with Bb-8. Just don't have him replace and fill R2-D2's shoes. Again, I wish VII VIII were different films that didn't

1. retell the stories we know

2. try to eradicate George Lucas vision

.

Novel connections so far, are not happening. They are telling some good Empire stories with Thrawn as center character. But after TFA, I bought a thick smooth covered book called Lost Stars.
See I try, I try. Maybe it would help me with a lead up to events of TFA. It was an uncalled for book. It was very long, drawn out story of two youth, M & F, wait for it.... from a dessert planet. The Empire comes to the planet to get people to join it's military. The two who end up being in a relationship join. One ends up joining the rebellion the other stays etc etc. They did all this just to tell the story of how the Star Destroyer ended up on the planet Rey lived on. I get the book away to a champion of TFA.

OldFriends4Sale said:

namepeace said:

It is cool we have different takes but don't say 'stop wailing and nashing of teeth' if someone criticizes it. ya know. It's like saying 'just be happy and except it'. No lol I mean some of us are more 'invested' in the SW legacy. Star Wars & Prince are my two guilty pleasures. I'm invested.

As a fellow investor who (like you) takes a back seat to no one in my love of the saga, I'm not saying "shut up and accept it." I'm saying don't panic about certain plot holes that may be filled in 4 months.

What other movies with Pt I II II IV V etc have had one or two fall flat?

The Godfather, Indiana Jones, Star Trek (in its various iterations), Jaws, Rocky . . .

If the way Luke Skywalker and Leia were handled doesn't sit well with me, I'm not going to dig it. If they are playing with the Force in a way that doesn't fit with script, it's not going to sit well with me. If you are presenting a non-force user as if he is a Jedi Knight, it's not going to sit well with me. These things cannot be overlooked in hopes the last movie tells a story. Leave the Millenium Falcon out of it, if Rey has to take captian chair. Leave it with Chewbacca, but give Rey her own ship. Why cannot they just give her her own ship. Droids are common place in ST, and I love the majority of droids, so I don't have a problem with Bb-8. Just don't have him replace and fill R2-D2's shoes. Again, I wish VII VIII were different films that didn't

1. retell the stories we know

2. try to eradicate George Lucas vision

There are several things we each would have done differently. "Lucas' vision" is a bit vague, since (i) he had other collaborators that brought the OT to life, and (ii) an entire mythology (once known as the EU) formed around the saga for nearly a half-century that flourished under his watch.

In hindsight, I would have had Dave Filoni head the whole thing.

All that said, that doesn't mean the films we got weren't good.

.

Novel connections so far, are not happening. They are telling some good Empire stories with Thrawn as center character. But after TFA, I bought a thick smooth covered book called Lost Stars. See I try, I try. Maybe it would help me with a lead up to events of TFA. It was an uncalled for book. It was very long, drawn out story of two youth, M & F, wait for it.... from a dessert planet. The Empire comes to the planet to get people to join it's military. The two who end up being in a relationship join. One ends up joining the rebellion the other stays etc etc. They did all this just to tell the story of how the Star Destroyer ended up on the planet Rey lived on. I get the book away to a champion of TFA.

Disney's decision to basically excommunicate decades of EU material boxed Disney in. That was a mistake. What we call "Lucas' vision" was moved forward by scores of talented writers of comics, novels, etc. (Timothy Hahn comes to mind). Their material has been largely cast aside or repackaged.

At the end of the day, the magic of the Original Trilogy cannot be repeated. That's what all of the investors grapple with.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Remove the 'Resistance' and the First Order(?), Rey a Knight in training at the Jedi Academy. Luke Skywalker the Jedi Master(but his role only distant) The Republic Alliance, Kyloa a dark side force user and set it in a side story in the Star Wars Universe, that would work.

.
It's the tearing down of previous generations just wiping out everything that was with no real future direction. A build up of hot air, Snoke, Rey's parentage. 'the REBELS' literally being wiped out. A First Order more powerful than Palpatines Empire with resources enought to build a Planetoid Death Star able to wipe out 4? worlds in one shot. etc it all just bloated and convoluted. TLJ did not resolve and further anything of the TFA. As ESB did resolve and further ANH.

.

I don't think the 'investment' is going to be worth it.

Don't forget Canto Bight, which was stupid and unecessary.

uPtoWnNY said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Remove the 'Resistance' and the First Order(?), make Rey a Knight in training at the Jedi Academy. Luke Skywalker the Jedi Master(but his role only distant) of The Republic Alliance, Kylo a a dark side force user and set it in a side story in the Star Wars Universe, that would work.

.
It's the tearing down of previous generations just wiping out everything that was with no real future direction. A build up of hot air, Snoke, Rey's parentage. 'the REBELS' literally being wiped out. A First Order more powerful than Palpatines Empire with resources enought to build a Planetoid Death Star able to wipe out 4? worlds in one shot. etc it's all just bloated and convoluted. TLJ did not resolve and further anything of the TFA. As ESB did resolve and further ANH.

.

I don't think the 'investment' is going to be worth it.

Don't forget Canto Bight, which was stupid and unecessary.

Right, or they could have started out there, but to go there in the middle was sensless

namepeace said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It is cool we have different takes but don't say 'stop wailing and nashing of teeth' if someone criticizes it. ya know. It's like saying 'just be happy and except it'. No lol I mean some of us are more 'invested' in the SW legacy. Star Wars & Prince are my two guilty pleasures. I'm invested.

As a fellow investor who (like you) takes a back seat to no one in my love of the saga, I'm not saying "shut up and accept it." I'm saying don't panic about certain plot holes that may be filled in 4 months.

lol no I'm not panicing. I just don't have much expectation. I enjoy the stories told in the comics, and the novels situated in the Empire. There are some novels with Leia, but I don't know if they are going to go with TFA's -Leia never trained as a Jedi or TLJ's she did train. These two things are example of how they've messed up canon.

What other movies with Pt I II II IV V etc have had one or two fall flat?

The Godfather, Indiana Jones, Star Trek (in its various iterations), Jaws, Rocky . . .
Right

If the way Luke Skywalker and Leia were handled doesn't sit well with me, I'm not going to dig it. If they are playing with the Force in a way that doesn't fit with script, it's not going to sit well with me. If you are presenting a non-force user as if he is a Jedi Knight, it's not going to sit well with me. These things cannot be overlooked in hopes the last movie tells a story. Leave the Millenium Falcon out of it, if Rey has to take captian chair. Leave it with Chewbacca, but give Rey her own ship. Why cannot they just give her her own ship. Droids are common place in ST, and I love the majority of droids, so I don't have a problem with Bb-8. Just don't have him replace and fill R2-D2's shoes. Again, I wish VII VIII were different films that didn't

1. retell the stories we know

2. try to eradicate George Lucas vision

There are several things we each would have done differently. "Lucas' vision" is a bit vague, since (i) he had other collaborators that brought the OT to life, and (ii) an entire mythology (once known as the EU) formed around the saga for nearly a half-century that flourished under his watch.

I think his vision for the next 3 movies was set. Also the movies with the novels/comics canon was pretty clear. For example, the Force was settled in a way that makes what Rey does, inconceivable. And that Finn is welding a lightsaber as if it is a bat or sword is against the vision, he would have cut his own head off, and he would not have been able to fight even a partially trained Force user.

In hindsight, I would have had Dave Filoni head the whole thing.

Having 1 person take the lead would have been best, I agree.

All that said, that doesn't mean the films we got weren't good.

.

I've said before the films would be good if they were a side story without, impacting Luke Leia, the Republic Alliance, the Jedi and the Force, the Millennium Falcon.
Trying to deconstruct a legacy was a bad move.

Novel connections so far, are not happening. They are telling some good Empire stories with Thrawn as center character. But after TFA, I bought a thick smooth covered book called Lost Stars. See I try, I try. Maybe it would help me with a lead up to events of TFA. It was an uncalled for book. It was very long, drawn out story of two youth, M & F, wait for it.... from a dessert planet. The Empire comes to the planet to get people to join it's military. The two who end up being in a relationship join. One ends up joining the rebellion the other stays etc etc. They did all this just to tell the story of how the Star Destroyer ended up on the planet Rey lived on. I get the book away to a champion of TFA.

Disney's decision to basically excommunicate decades of EU material boxed Disney in. That was a mistake. What we call "Lucas' vision" was moved forward by scores of talented writers of comics, novels, etc. (Timothy Hahn comes to mind). Their material has been largely cast aside or repackaged.

At the end of the day, the magic of the Original Trilogy cannot be repeated. That's what all of the investors grapple with.

Yes, they did well to bring Hahn back to write the Thrawn stories. But I agree, they messed up by removing some wonderful stories lines, heritage and characters. The Thrawn trilogies set the stage for a wonderful follow up to ROTJ expanding the SW universe. They took us back to square one and then caused the footing to digress. Where they took the stories says 'what's the point of everything that happened prior. What's the point of Yoda going into seclusion, "you will be, you will be" 'that boy was our only hope' "no there is another.... skywalker" Leia, Ackbar, Nadien, Mon Mothma etc would not have not built a military. They would have been the next and natural leaders of the New Republic, not needing to be a 'Resistance'. That was were the Old Republic went wront. They believed in the Jedi Knights, they would have made sure it was rebuilt. There is no way someone named Snoke would have been able to emass such a power in the universe.

[Edited 8/23/19 16:44pm]

^^^ Listen to him well... Every point he makes is the point...