Ugot2shakesumthin said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

But it is George Lucas's baby. Not theirs. Let's remember, it is Sci Fiction. People also picked apart SW A New Hope and said it would be a failure. I don't see how he did damage to it, vs a bunch of cry babies who thought they had a better story. Yeah a lot of movies have plot holes and inconsistencies. Some people find fault with everything. It is still his vision, his story.

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Purple Rain had inconsistencies too, but I never let it stop me from still enjoying it. It's fiction. Like ST is Sci-Fiction.

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Naw SW SOLO was an entertaining stand alone film. TFA and TLJ are garbage -they cannot be called 'stand alone films' the are continuum films. Even Mark Hamill did not like the direction.

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They made money because SW fans are just hungry for more Star Wars. Not because they are good. It like investing in an album just to realize it is wack and so you talk it up and try to make it better than you know inside that it is. So that $ doesn't feel like a loss.

Yikes, now I think Solo is absolute garbage. It's boring garbage even, if only people were as triggered by that one, but I'm pretty sure it's never been too much about the TLJ's quality, but about men-boys not happy with female protagonists. We saw this same fuming before Captain Marvel even came out.

Again, Solo is a truly bad film on every level but fans tread lightly on it.

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I think we start off with a fan base that is easily triggered, then get them exited with something to gnaw on, and watch the go.

LOL don't get me wrong. I have a lot of issues with SOLO, I think the Kessel Run, being able to see this place that I've read/heard about since the late 70s, made the film for me. I thought it was an entertaining stand alone film. I didn't say it was good. And I've never watched it again nor have I bought the DVD, or the Art of the Making of book, which is usually what happens when I like a movie. The same with Rogue One. The best part of Rogue One was Darth Vader at the end. But a good stand alone film to have watched.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

But it is George Lucas's baby. Not theirs. Let's remember, it is Sci Fiction. People also picked apart SW A New Hope and said it would be a failure. I don't see how he did damage to it, vs a bunch of cry babies who thought they had a better story. Yeah a lot of movies have plot holes and inconsistencies. Some people find fault with everything. It is still his vision, his story.

.

Purple Rain had inconsistencies too, but I never let it stop me from still enjoying it. It's fiction. Like ST is Sci-Fiction.

.

Naw SW SOLO was an entertaining stand alone film. TFA and TLJ are garbage -they cannot be called 'stand alone films' the are continuum films. Even Mark Hamill did not like the direction.

.

They made money because SW fans are just hungry for more Star Wars. Not because they are good. It like investing in an album just to realize it is wack and so you talk it up and try to make it better than you know inside that it is. So that $ doesn't feel like a loss.

Yikes, now I think Solo is absolute garbage. It's boring garbage even, if only people were as triggered by that one, but I'm pretty sure it's never been too much about the TLJ's quality, but about men-boys not happy with female protagonists. We saw this same fuming before Captain Marvel even came out.

Again, Solo is a truly bad film on every level but fans tread lightly on it.

.

I think we start off with a fan base that is easily triggered, then get them exited with something to gnaw on, and watch the go.

I think Star Wars fans are very similar to Prince fans.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

But it is George Lucas's baby. Not theirs. Let's remember, it is Sci Fiction. People also picked apart SW A New Hope and said it would be a failure. I don't see how he did damage to it, vs a bunch of cry babies who thought they had a better story. Yeah a lot of movies have plot holes and inconsistencies. Some people find fault with everything. It is still his vision, his story.

.

Purple Rain had inconsistencies too, but I never let it stop me from still enjoying it. It's fiction. Like ST is Sci-Fiction.

.

Naw SW SOLO was an entertaining stand alone film. TFA and TLJ are garbage -they cannot be called 'stand alone films' the are continuum films. Even Mark Hamill did not like the direction.

.

They made money because SW fans are just hungry for more Star Wars. Not because they are good. It like investing in an album just to realize it is wack and so you talk it up and try to make it better than you know inside that it is. So that $ doesn't feel like a loss.

Yikes, now I think Solo is absolute garbage. It's boring garbage even, if only people were as triggered by that one, but I'm pretty sure it's never been too much about the TLJ's quality, but about men-boys not happy with female protagonists. We saw this same fuming before Captain Marvel even came out.

Again, Solo is a truly bad film on every level but fans tread lightly on it.

.

I think we start off with a fan base that is easily triggered, then get them exited with something to gnaw on, and watch the go.

Actually if you look into it they were triggered by SOLO. I'm in a FB Star Wars group and it was bad. They were organizing protest groups across the country.

.

I think with TLJ it's way more than female protagonists. That was sorta covered by TFA and Rogue One( I don't think any of the characters were interesting, except the droid, the female lead was not a heroin, I felt sorry for none of them as they were killed, except the droid)

.

First of all TLJ was just a retake of The Empire Strikes Back. Just like TFA is a retake of A New Hope.

.

1. Why would the Millenium Falcon need to be commandered by Rey, when Chewbacca should be it's owner. He's just cast off to the side.

2. Luke the spark of light(A New Hope/Return of the Jedi/ You will be, you will be...-Jedi Master Yoda) in such a week pathetic faded role. Getting snatched around by Rey who isn't even trained. Luke (and Leia) have the same Force strength as Anakin, same midichlorians as Anakin. Maybe it's the purple sea creatures milk making him a force lush

3. The side story of the small crew leaving the fleet to go to another system to find person that can crack a code... just to introduce the character and the criminal world/freeing the native creatures etc... it just did not make sense, outside of telling a side story

4. Leia's Mary Poppins force move... We were told Leia never trained in the ways of the force. That move she did required serious focused training.

5. Who are C-3PO and R2-D2 in this film, just background props?

6. How did the Rebels oops er um I mean the Resistance in TFA follow up end up on a 'frozen' planet as the Empire oops er um buckles down on them to destroy them.

7. And the Force just consumes Luke and he is no more? Did he even weld his lightsaber in battle? He could have struck his nephew down easily.

8. Why is his nephew so angry?

9. Uh did the dark force user present the fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user like in Empire Strikes back a dark force user present a fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user?

10. And how did she being so untrained take down trained warriors?

.

These are the reason people have with the movie, not men-boys not happy with female protagonists.

OldFriends4Sale said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

First of all TLJ was just a retake of The Empire Strikes Back. Just like TFA is a retake of A New Hope.

Okay.

1. Why would the Millenium Falcon need to be commandered by Rey, when Chewbacca should be it's owner. He's just cast off to the side.

Chewbacca was underappreciated and underused, but you could make that argument for not only TFA, but ROTJ and even ANH as well.

2. Luke the spark of light(A New Hope/Return of the Jedi/ You will be, you will be...-Jedi Master Yoda) in such a week pathetic faded role. Getting snatched around by Rey who isn't even trained. Luke (and Leia) have the same Force strength as Anakin, same midichlorians as Anakin. Maybe it's the purple sea creatures milk making him a force lush

That happened in the OT too! Luke blew up the Death Star using his Force abilities 7 minutes after LEARNING about the Force. In the first damn movie. Rey bested a Skywalker kid in her first lightsaber duel. We don't know who Rey is anymore than we really knew who Luke was until the end of the 1st installment.

3. The side story of the small crew leaving the fleet to go to another system to find person that can crack a code... just to introduce the character and the criminal world/freeing the native creatures etc... it just did not make sense, outside of telling a side story

The worst flaw.

4. Leia's Mary Poppins force move... We were told Leia never trained in the ways of the force. That move she did required serious focused training.

It was do or die. As you said, she's got the same midichlorian count as her father. So why is it so unrealistic that she summoned a Force trick to save her life?

5. Who are C-3PO and R2-D2 in this film, just background props?

Another flaw.

6. How did the Rebels oops er um I mean the Resistance in TFA follow up end up on a 'frozen' planet as the Empire oops er um buckles down on them to destroy them.

Maybe they wanted to hew close to the OT because they knew that fans would scream bloody murder if they deviated. Turns out, some of those same fans hated the parallels all the same.

7. And the Force just consumes Luke and he is no more? Did he even weld his lightsaber in battle? He could have struck his nephew down easily.

But he's a Skywalker kid and the son of his closest friends. So what if he didn't wield his saber? Yoda didn't in the OT either.

8. Why is his nephew so angry?

We didn't truly understand why Vader was so angry until III. Wait till the story plays out.

9. Uh did the dark force user present the fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user like in Empire Strikes back a dark force user present a fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user?

Vader never presented Luke to Sidious in V. He did that in VI. Another parallel that was still entertaining all the same.

10. And how did she being so untrained take down trained warriors?

TFA indicated that she was not unexperienced in hand-to-hand combat with a sword or staff. Combine that with conscious use of her Force abilities and she's powerful. She took out Kylo Ren in her first battle. Luke did some pretty implausible things before he became a Jedi.

These are the reason people have with the movie, not men-boys not happy with female protagonists.

There are legit issues with the sequels, then there are complaints from sections of the fanbase who forget (a) key details in the sequels that answer their questions, and (b) some of the same issues existed in the OT.

Leia is very strong in the Force. She reisted the mind probe on the Death Star with no training. I bought that she could pull herself back to the ship with all her strength and then go into a coma. As for "naked" Finn and the bags, too many people just can't handle technology that wasn't in the original trilogy. Same thing with the blue milk.

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Actually if you look into it they were triggered by SOLO. I'm in a FB Star Wars group and it was bad. They were organizing protest groups across the country.

.

I think with TLJ it's way more than female protagonists. That was sorta covered by TFA and Rogue One( I don't think any of the characters were interesting, except the droid, the female lead was not a heroin, I felt sorry for none of them as they were killed, except the droid)

.

First of all TLJ was just a retake of The Empire Strikes Back. Just like TFA is a retake of A New Hope.

.

1. Why would the Millenium Falcon need to be commandered by Rey, when Chewbacca should be it's owner. He's just cast off to the side.

2. Luke the spark of light(A New Hope/Return of the Jedi/ You will be, you will be...-Jedi Master Yoda) in such a week pathetic faded role. Getting snatched around by Rey who isn't even trained. Luke (and Leia) have the same Force strength as Anakin, same midichlorians as Anakin. Maybe it's the purple sea creatures milk making him a force lush

3. The side story of the small crew leaving the fleet to go to another system to find person that can crack a code... just to introduce the character and the criminal world/freeing the native creatures etc... it just did not make sense, outside of telling a side story

4. Leia's Mary Poppins force move... We were told Leia never trained in the ways of the force. That move she did required serious focused training.

5. Who are C-3PO and R2-D2 in this film, just background props?

6. How did the Rebels oops er um I mean the Resistance in TFA follow up end up on a 'frozen' planet as the Empire oops er um buckles down on them to destroy them.

7. And the Force just consumes Luke and he is no more? Did he even weld his lightsaber in battle? He could have struck his nephew down easily.

8. Why is his nephew so angry?

9. Uh did the dark force user present the fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user like in Empire Strikes back a dark force user present a fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user?

10. And how did she being so untrained take down trained warriors?

.

These are the reason people have with the movie, not men-boys not happy with female protagonists.

1. It was Han's ship, not Chewbacca's? Besides, Chewbacca piloting the ship does not make for an interesting movie. He was only ever good when teamed up with Han Solo. If Han isn't there, Chewie has no reason to be either. 2. I think they were going for "Luke is now like Obi Wan" kind of thing. He's out of practice and not really bothered anymore. Which, given the story they were telling, kind of makes sense. A lot more sense than Obi Wan becoming "Ben Kenobi" anyway. 3. I agree. That was kind of pointless. But I enjoyed it. 4. I didn't like that either but only because there was no lead up to it. It just came out of nowhere. 5. Yes. They are basically props. They have no reason to be in the movie at all and are most likely only there because nerds would really lose it if they were left out. 6. I don't understand that sentence. 7. Maybe he didn't want to kill his nephew? Maybe he hopes that his nephew will turn back to the light, like Darth Vader did? 8. Because he's a little prick. 9. I have no idea what that means. 10. She's not completely untrained as a fighter. We seen her take out some guys in TFA and that was before she knew she was a jedi. Star Wars often gives its heroes powers for convenience sake. Anakin's piloting abilities, Yoda dropping his walking stick to do fucking backflips and even Luke seemed to storm through his jedi training to become a badass.

...having been stolen from Solo and Chewbacca some years prior. ( I did not even address this pointless arch in TFA )

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and this stupid arch in TLJ After the death of Solo, Rey pilots the Falcon, with Chewbacca as her co-pilot. The novelization of The Force Awakens states that Chewbacca willingly abdicates captaincy of the Falcon to Rey.

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When did Rey and how did Rey just learn how to fly the Falcon. It's not a bicycle that anyone can just hop into an opperate.

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Chewbacca was 1st Mate and always assumed command of the Falcon outside of Han. Chewbacca was flying, modifying, learning the Falcon since before the events of Star Wars A New Hope.
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the story does not revolve around Chewie flying the ship, so in itself that isn't going to change the success of the movie. But it doesn't make sense. Rey can still fly 2nd seat to Chewie, which would make sense. But in this senseless SW universe, they have to get all the original heroes out of the way. Rey can fly the Falcon and manipulate the Force with absolutely no training of use of it prior, and up-end Luke Skywalker. The Falcon was Chewie and Han's home, in space.

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it is species discrimination

Hudson said:

Leia is very strong in the Force. She reisted the mind probe on the Death Star with no training. I bought that she could pull herself back to the ship with all her strength and then go into a coma. As for "naked" Finn and the bags, too many people just can't handle technology that wasn't in the original trilogy. Same thing with the blue milk.

yes she is, as strong as her father.
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But there was reasons behind her resisting it without being suspected to be Force strong. (of course we all questioned why wouldn't Vader be able to pick up on it) But we understand that it was all still a work in progress. Lucas had 'Splinter of the Minds Eye' set up to be a follow up depending on how A New Hope worked out. There is a few Force pieces with Leia in SOTME as well as in the Empire Strikes Back when she can hear Luke calling for her.

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But telekinesis is something different. It is something that has to come with some kind of practice or training. And the writers of TLJ explained that 'she indead had force training' which contradicted the first movie writers.

namepeace said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

First of all TLJ was just a retake of The Empire Strikes Back. Just like TFA is a retake of A New Hope.

Okay.

1. Why would the Millenium Falcon need to be commandered by Rey, when Chewbacca should be it's owner. He's just cast off to the side.

Chewbacca was underappreciated and underused, but you could make that argument for not only TFA, but ROTJ and even ANH as well.

Actually in ANO TESB and ROTJ he was a key character, clearly someone who did not take back seat to someone like Rey. A skilled pilot and warrior who also fought in the Clone Wars.

2. Luke the spark of light(A New Hope/Return of the Jedi/ You will be, you will be...-Jedi Master Yoda) in such a week pathetic faded role. Getting snatched around by Rey who isn't even trained. Luke (and Leia) have the same Force strength as Anakin, same midichlorians as Anakin. Maybe it's the purple sea creatures milk making him a force lush

That happened in the OT too! Luke blew up the Death Star using his Force abilities 7 minutes after LEARNING about the Force. In the first damn movie. Rey bested a Skywalker kid in her first lightsaber duel. We don't know who Rey is anymore than we really knew who Luke was until the end of the 1st installment.

By the time Luke blew up the Death Star he had 96 hours, four standard days of time training on the Falcon from Tatooine to Alderaan. Not to mention Obiwan was in spirit teaching him in the very moment. Luke was already a very skilled pilot. Rey never set foot in the Falcon and flew it like she flew it for 40yrs.
.
With the Force, even using a lightsaber, there still has to be training, a person could loose a limb. It was specifically built for someone who was trained with the Force. So, was that FINN? Not a Force sensitive, in TFA who used a lightsaber to fight a Force user trained to use the Force and saber?? Another senseless piece.

3. The side story of the small crew leaving the fleet to go to another system to find person that can crack a code... just to introduce the character and the criminal world/freeing the native creatures etc... it just did not make sense, outside of telling a side story

The worst flaw.

4. Leia's Mary Poppins force move... We were told Leia never trained in the ways of the force. That move she did required serious focused training.

It was do or die. As you said, she's got the same midichlorian count as her father. So why is it so unrealistic that she summoned a Force trick to save her life?

Because according to JJ she never trained to use the Force. You have to train to use telekinesis.

5. Who are C-3PO and R2-D2 in this film, just background props?

Another flaw.

6. How did the Rebels oops er um I mean the Resistance in TFA follow up end up on a 'frozen' planet as the Empire oops er um buckles down on them to destroy them.

Maybe they wanted to hew close to the OT because they knew that fans would scream bloody murder if they deviated. Turns out, some of those same fans hated the parallels all the same.

Yep

7. And the Force just consumes Luke and he is no more? Did he even weld his lightsaber in battle? He could have struck his nephew down easily.

But he's a Skywalker kid and the son of his closest friends. So what if he didn't wield his saber? Yoda didn't in the OT either.

But by this point he was ready to strike him down.

Yoda did not fight in ESB or ROTJ

8. Why is his nephew so angry?

We didn't truly understand why Vader was so angry until III. Wait till the story plays out.

It's just a 'why is he such a brat' question. So far it's playing out stupid. Vader also didn't kill his mother. This kid killed his father, wanted to kill his uncle, and targeted the ship his mother was in to kill her. Why in the hell in this dude so angry. There is some great concept art for his character though. But the character so far is still falling short.

9. Uh did the dark force user present the fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user like in Empire Strikes back a dark force user present a fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user?

Vader never presented Luke to Sidious in V. He did that in VI. Another parallel that was still entertaining all the same.

right, but the same thing, just different movies.

10. And how did she being so untrained take down trained warriors?

TFA indicated that she was not unexperienced in hand-to-hand combat with a sword or staff. Combine that with conscious use of her Force abilities and she's powerful. She took out Kylo Ren in her first battle. Luke did some pretty implausible things before he became a Jedi.

She fought like a trained Jedi Knight, and FINN did too and he isn't even force sensitive. Conscious of the Force doesn't make you that kind of warrior to fight trained warriors who from my understanding might be more than just trained warriors. Luke was extensively trained though.

These are the reason people have with the movie, not men-boys not happy with female protagonists.

There are legit issues with the sequels, then there are complaints from sections of the fanbase who forget (a) key details in the sequels that answer their questions, and (b) some of the same issues existed in the OT.

[Edited 8/8/19 13:53pm]

In my rants and criticisms of this new direction, I want you all to know, I still look into it. I'm a serious SW NERD. So I'm someone who is very academic with Star Wars information, ideals, etc

That being said I'm not having a knee jerk reaction to these movies and direction. I went to the theater to see TFA. I kept an open mind. I judged the movie rationally and even after buying the Art of the Force Awakens book etc my conclusion stands as it is. AND I'm still intrigued with concept arts of the movies. But I'm more a fan of the concept art and ideals than the films.

.

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Star Wars fans wanted to see this in TFA. We were lead to believe Luke was about to show why he was the Jedi Master

art by ... Teoft

Knights of Ren by Rafal Rola

OldFriends4Sale said:

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Actually if you look into it they were triggered by SOLO. I'm in a FB Star Wars group and it was bad. They were organizing protest groups across the country.

.

I think with TLJ it's way more than female protagonists. That was sorta covered by TFA and Rogue One( I don't think any of the characters were interesting, except the droid, the female lead was not a heroin, I felt sorry for none of them as they were killed, except the droid)

.

First of all TLJ was just a retake of The Empire Strikes Back. Just like TFA is a retake of A New Hope.

.

1. Why would the Millenium Falcon need to be commandered by Rey, when Chewbacca should be it's owner. He's just cast off to the side.

2. Luke the spark of light(A New Hope/Return of the Jedi/ You will be, you will be...-Jedi Master Yoda) in such a week pathetic faded role. Getting snatched around by Rey who isn't even trained. Luke (and Leia) have the same Force strength as Anakin, same midichlorians as Anakin. Maybe it's the purple sea creatures milk making him a force lush

3. The side story of the small crew leaving the fleet to go to another system to find person that can crack a code... just to introduce the character and the criminal world/freeing the native creatures etc... it just did not make sense, outside of telling a side story

4. Leia's Mary Poppins force move... We were told Leia never trained in the ways of the force. That move she did required serious focused training.

5. Who are C-3PO and R2-D2 in this film, just background props?

6. How did the Rebels oops er um I mean the Resistance in TFA follow up end up on a 'frozen' planet as the Empire oops er um buckles down on them to destroy them.

7. And the Force just consumes Luke and he is no more? Did he even weld his lightsaber in battle? He could have struck his nephew down easily.

8. Why is his nephew so angry?

9. Uh did the dark force user present the fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user like in Empire Strikes back a dark force user present a fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user?

10. And how did she being so untrained take down trained warriors?

.

These are the reason people have with the movie, not men-boys not happy with female protagonists.

2. I think they were going for "Luke is now like Obi Wan" kind of thing. He's out of practice and not really bothered anymore. Which, given the story they were telling, kind of makes sense. A lot more sense than Obi Wan becoming "Ben Kenobi" anyway.

This image makes no sense to me, after the 'LEGENDS' Jedi Master Luke Skywalker. Even Ben Kenobi wasn't this broken.

[Edited 8/8/19 14:22pm]

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Actually if you look into it they were triggered by SOLO. I'm in a FB Star Wars group and it was bad. They were organizing protest groups across the country.

.

I think with TLJ it's way more than female protagonists. That was sorta covered by TFA and Rogue One( I don't think any of the characters were interesting, except the droid, the female lead was not a heroin, I felt sorry for none of them as they were killed, except the droid)

.

First of all TLJ was just a retake of The Empire Strikes Back. Just like TFA is a retake of A New Hope.

.

1. Why would the Millenium Falcon need to be commandered by Rey, when Chewbacca should be it's owner. He's just cast off to the side.

2. Luke the spark of light(A New Hope/Return of the Jedi/ You will be, you will be...-Jedi Master Yoda) in such a week pathetic faded role. Getting snatched around by Rey who isn't even trained. Luke (and Leia) have the same Force strength as Anakin, same midichlorians as Anakin. Maybe it's the purple sea creatures milk making him a force lush

3. The side story of the small crew leaving the fleet to go to another system to find person that can crack a code... just to introduce the character and the criminal world/freeing the native creatures etc... it just did not make sense, outside of telling a side story

4. Leia's Mary Poppins force move... We were told Leia never trained in the ways of the force. That move she did required serious focused training.

5. Who are C-3PO and R2-D2 in this film, just background props?

6. How did the Rebels oops er um I mean the Resistance in TFA follow up end up on a 'frozen' planet as the Empire oops er um buckles down on them to destroy them.

7. And the Force just consumes Luke and he is no more? Did he even weld his lightsaber in battle? He could have struck his nephew down easily.

8. Why is his nephew so angry?

9. Uh did the dark force user present the fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user like in Empire Strikes back a dark force user present a fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user?

10. And how did she being so untrained take down trained warriors?

.

These are the reason people have with the movie, not men-boys not happy with female protagonists.

3. I agree. That was kind of pointless. But I enjoyed it.

I could have been an interesting side story on it's own, add an older Clone War jedi knight a few Ewoks with Wookies etc lol

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Actually if you look into it they were triggered by SOLO. I'm in a FB Star Wars group and it was bad. They were organizing protest groups across the country.

.

I think with TLJ it's way more than female protagonists. That was sorta covered by TFA and Rogue One( I don't think any of the characters were interesting, except the droid, the female lead was not a heroin, I felt sorry for none of them as they were killed, except the droid)

.

First of all TLJ was just a retake of The Empire Strikes Back. Just like TFA is a retake of A New Hope.

.

1. Why would the Millenium Falcon need to be commandered by Rey, when Chewbacca should be it's owner. He's just cast off to the side.

2. Luke the spark of light(A New Hope/Return of the Jedi/ You will be, you will be...-Jedi Master Yoda) in such a week pathetic faded role. Getting snatched around by Rey who isn't even trained. Luke (and Leia) have the same Force strength as Anakin, same midichlorians as Anakin. Maybe it's the purple sea creatures milk making him a force lush

3. The side story of the small crew leaving the fleet to go to another system to find person that can crack a code... just to introduce the character and the criminal world/freeing the native creatures etc... it just did not make sense, outside of telling a side story

4. Leia's Mary Poppins force move... We were told Leia never trained in the ways of the force. That move she did required serious focused training.

5. Who are C-3PO and R2-D2 in this film, just background props?

6. How did the Rebels oops er um I mean the Resistance in TFA follow up end up on a 'frozen' planet as the Empire oops er um buckles down on them to destroy them.

7. And the Force just consumes Luke and he is no more? Did he even weld his lightsaber in battle? He could have struck his nephew down easily.

8. Why is his nephew so angry?

9. Uh did the dark force user present the fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user like in Empire Strikes back a dark force user present a fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user?

10. And how did she being so untrained take down trained warriors?

.

These are the reason people have with the movie, not men-boys not happy with female protagonists.

5. Yes. They are basically props. They have no reason to be in the movie at all and are most likely only there because nerds would really lose it if they were left out.

Right, which is basically another disrespect to the legacy. These are the Heroes. These two saw the rise of everything we know to be star wars and were actively a part of the Rebellion, Republic, Jedi Knights and the Alliance. The LEGENDS, has them on a whole lifted level.

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Actually if you look into it they were triggered by SOLO. I'm in a FB Star Wars group and it was bad. They were organizing protest groups across the country.

.

I think with TLJ it's way more than female protagonists. That was sorta covered by TFA and Rogue One( I don't think any of the characters were interesting, except the droid, the female lead was not a heroin, I felt sorry for none of them as they were killed, except the droid)

.

First of all TLJ was just a retake of The Empire Strikes Back. Just like TFA is a retake of A New Hope.

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6. How did the Rebels oops er um I mean the Resistance in TFA follow up end up on a 'frozen' planet as the Empire oops er um buckles down on them to destroy them.

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These are the reason people have with the movie, not men-boys not happy with female protagonists.

6. I don't understand that sentence.

lol that was my intent lol because it represents how TLJ is just a copy of Empire Strikes back, the Relllion/Resistance being in a place where they are running and having a 'secret' base on a white winter planet. the title of episod V is the Empire coming out on top, and looking like they are going to win, just like in TLJ

The Last Jedi, unlike TFA is not a retread by any stretch of the imagination. On the contrary, some were taken aback by how Johnson made it his own. Someone here just a few posts up saying it strayed too far from Lucas's vision.

OldFriends4Sale said:

1. Why would the Millenium Falcon need to be commandered by Rey, when Chewbacca should be it's owner. He's just cast off to the side.

Chewbacca was underappreciated and underused, but you could make that argument for not only TFA, but ROTJ and even ANH as well.

Actually in ANO TESB and ROTJ he was a key character, clearly someone who did not take back seat to someone like Rey. A skilled pilot and warrior who also fought in the Clone Wars.

Moreso in V and VI than IV, the characters treated him more like a pet at times. And actually, I thought he had a meatier role in TFA than in TLJ.

2. Luke the spark of light(A New Hope/Return of the Jedi/ You will be, you will be...-Jedi Master Yoda) in such a week pathetic faded role. Getting snatched around by Rey who isn't even trained. Luke (and Leia) have the same Force strength as Anakin, same midichlorians as Anakin. Maybe it's the purple sea creatures milk making him a force lush

That happened in the OT too! Luke blew up the Death Star using his Force abilities 7 minutes after LEARNING about the Force. In the first damn movie. Rey bested a Skywalker kid in her first lightsaber duel. We don't know who Rey is anymore than we really knew who Luke was until the end of the 1st installment.

By the time Luke blew up the Death Star he had 96 hours, four standard days of time training on the Falcon from Tatooine to Alderaan. Not to mention Obiwan was in spirit teaching him in the very moment. Luke was already a very skilled pilot. Rey never set foot in the Falcon and flew it like she flew it for 40yrs.
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With the Force, even using a lightsaber, there still has to be training, a person could loose a limb. It was specifically built for someone who was trained with the Force. So, was that FINN? Not a Force sensitive, in TFA who used a lightsaber to fight a Force user trained to use the Force and saber?? Another senseless piece.

Luke basically attended a seminar on the Force and used it to blow up the Death Star.

Just like Luke was a skilled pilot at the time of ANH, Rey was pretty good at hand to hand combat at the time of TFA. As for piloting, unlike the storyline of ANH, Rey's piloting skills weren't discussed or shown off but she lived on a trading outpost.

4. Leia's Mary Poppins force move... We were told Leia never trained in the ways of the force. That move she did required serious focused training.

It was do or die. As you said, she's got the same midichlorian count as her father. So why is it so unrealistic that she summoned a Force trick to save her life?

Because according to JJ she never trained to use the Force. You have to train to use telekinesis.

But that's a continuity issue between JJ and Rian. She's a Skywalker. She did as Obi-Wan instructed Luke to do during his "Falcon Seminar" -- act on instinct. It wasn't that much of a stretch given the extreme circumstances and the audience's knowledge of her lineage.

7. And the Force just consumes Luke and he is no more? Did he even weld his lightsaber in battle? He could have struck his nephew down easily.

But he's a Skywalker kid and the son of his closest friends. So what if he didn't wield his saber? Yoda didn't in the OT either.

But by this point he was ready to strike him down.

Yoda did not fight in ESB or ROTJ

Was he though? And did Luke really "fight" in TLJ? (I say no.) At best, he fought like Obi-Wan fought Vader in ANH - to facilitate a getaway.

8. Why is his nephew so angry?

We didn't truly understand why Vader was so angry until III. Wait till the story plays out.

It's just a 'why is he such a brat' question. So far it's playing out stupid. Vader also didn't kill his mother. This kid killed his father, wanted to kill his uncle, and targeted the ship his mother was in to kill her. Why in the hell in this dude so angry. There is some great concept art for his character though. But the character so far is still falling short.

This is a flaw; TLJ spent too much time on secondary storylines (that casino planet "boondoggle") when the focus should have been on Ren and Snoke's backstory. More interaction with the main characters would have helped. But (maybe) Ford's departure and Fisher's passing had a lot to do with that.

9. Uh did the dark force user present the fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user like in Empire Strikes back a dark force user present a fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user?

Vader never presented Luke to Sidious in V. He did that in VI. Another parallel that was still entertaining all the same.

right, but the same thing, just different movies.

The fight was one of the best since the OT.

10. And how did she being so untrained take down trained warriors?

TFA indicated that she was not unexperienced in hand-to-hand combat with a sword or staff. Combine that with conscious use of her Force abilities and she's powerful. She took out Kylo Ren in her first battle. Luke did some pretty implausible things before he became a Jedi.

She fought like a trained Jedi Knight, and FINN did too and he isn't even force sensitive. Conscious of the Force doesn't make you that kind of warrior to fight trained warriors who from my understanding might be more than just trained warriors. Luke was extensively trained though.

Rey had practical fighting experience on Jakku and Finn was a trained Stormtrooper. Both had more fighting experience/training at the time of the sequels than Luke did at the time of ANH. I understand what you're saying, but remember (a) Finn was saved by Han in his first TFA fight, before Ren proceeded to put him in a coma at the end of the film, and went on to essentially lose his other fight in TLJ; (b) Rey needed Ren to survive the chamber fight.

[Edited 8/8/19 13:53pm]

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Actually if you look into it they were triggered by SOLO. I'm in a FB Star Wars group and it was bad. They were organizing protest groups across the country.

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I think with TLJ it's way more than female protagonists. That was sorta covered by TFA and Rogue One( I don't think any of the characters were interesting, except the droid, the female lead was not a heroin, I felt sorry for none of them as they were killed, except the droid)

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First of all TLJ was just a retake of The Empire Strikes Back. Just like TFA is a retake of A New Hope.

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1. Why would the Millenium Falcon need to be commandered by Rey, when Chewbacca should be it's owner. He's just cast off to the side.

2. Luke the spark of light(A New Hope/Return of the Jedi/ You will be, you will be...-Jedi Master Yoda) in such a week pathetic faded role. Getting snatched around by Rey who isn't even trained. Luke (and Leia) have the same Force strength as Anakin, same midichlorians as Anakin. Maybe it's the purple sea creatures milk making him a force lush

3. The side story of the small crew leaving the fleet to go to another system to find person that can crack a code... just to introduce the character and the criminal world/freeing the native creatures etc... it just did not make sense, outside of telling a side story

4. Leia's Mary Poppins force move... We were told Leia never trained in the ways of the force. That move she did required serious focused training.

5. Who are C-3PO and R2-D2 in this film, just background props?

6. How did the Rebels oops er um I mean the Resistance in TFA follow up end up on a 'frozen' planet as the Empire oops er um buckles down on them to destroy them.

7. And the Force just consumes Luke and he is no more? Did he even weld his lightsaber in battle? He could have struck his nephew down easily.

8. Why is his nephew so angry?

9. Uh did the dark force user present the fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user like in Empire Strikes back a dark force user present a fledgling allegedly untrained force user to a grand force user?

10. And how did she being so untrained take down trained warriors?

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These are the reason people have with the movie, not men-boys not happy with female protagonists.

7. Maybe he didn't want to kill his nephew? Maybe he hopes that his nephew will turn back to the light, like Darth Vader did? 8. Because he's a little prick. 9. I have no idea what that means. 10. She's not completely untrained as a fighter. We seen her take out some guys in TFA and that was before she knew she was a jedi. Star Wars often gives its heroes powers for convenience sake. Anakin's piloting abilities, Yoda dropping his walking stick to do fucking backflips and even Luke seemed to storm through his jedi training to become a badass.

7. From my understanding, at this point where Luke confronts him a 2nd time is to destroy him. Actually when he first was going to kill him, after he struggled with it, he did move to strike him down. He wasn't looking for redemption for Kylo.

9. Kylo presenting Rey to Stoke in the grand hall with the guards in Red and Kylo makes the move to strike him down, is directly from ROTJ with Vader presenting Luke to the Emporer, with his red Imperial Guards in the throne room. And Vader actually makes the 'strike' to destroy the Emperor.

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Uh Yoda was the Grand Jedi Master. Who Palpatine and Darth Tyranus(Count Dooku) were both deathly afraid of. Yoda using the stick had reasons beyond him actually needing it. He was the most powerful force user.

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From the time Ben revealed to Luke who he was to the time he was an actual Jedi, was not a couple of days or weeks. Obiwan was training Luke for 4 days on the Falcon, not 7 min and Obiwan in the spirit form was able to continue to train Luke thought this whole time. So it didn't just happen in a couple of moments. There were many years between ANH and RETURN of the Jedi.

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The estimated time Luke was on Dagobah training with Yoda was about 2 weeks. And it was an excelarated training as a warrior. Yoda was focused on Luke being able to take down Vader and the Emperor. And not turn to the dark side.

EmmaMcG said:

Perhaps it is species discrimination. I never liked Chewbacca though so maybe that's why I don't care

Are you joking? Chewbacca is legend!

[Edited 8/8/19 14:55pm]

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

The Last Jedi, unlike TFA is not a retread by any stretch of the imagination. On the contrary, some were taken aback by how Johnson made it his own. Someone here just a few posts up saying it strayed too far from Lucas's vision.

Explain. Because the similarities of TLJ with a combination of ESB and ROTJ are very retready.

Yes there are only 3-4 people discussing here lol so we don't have to be 'indirect' You know I said Johnson strayed from Lucas vision. And he contradicted things JJ set in motion.

And also...let's not forget that Lucas's vision for the trilogies is that "they are like poetry, they rhyme"

We are witnessing the destruction and defacing of a Legacy.

The Emperor also did not like non human species

CherryMoon57 said:

EmmaMcG said:

Perhaps it is species discrimination. I never liked Chewbacca though so maybe that's why I don't care

Are you joking? Chewbakka is legend!

EmmaMcG said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

But it is George Lucas's baby. Not theirs. Let's remember, it is Sci Fiction. People also picked apart SW A New Hope and said it would be a failure. I don't see how he did damage to it, vs a bunch of cry babies who thought they had a better story. Yeah a lot of movies have plot holes and inconsistencies. Some people find fault with everything. It is still his vision, his story.

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Purple Rain had inconsistencies too, but I never let it stop me from still enjoying it. It's fiction. Like ST is Sci-Fiction.

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Naw SW SOLO was an entertaining stand alone film. TFA and TLJ are garbage -they cannot be called 'stand alone films' the are continuum films. Even Mark Hamill did not like the direction.

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They made money because SW fans are just hungry for more Star Wars. Not because they are good. It like investing in an album just to realize it is wack and so you talk it up and try to make it better than you know inside that it is. So that $ doesn't feel like a loss.

If George Lucas cared about his baby, he wouldn't have sold it. Like, I see what you're saying but the facts are that the Disney Star Wars movies have been very successful both in terms of box office and with critics. Outside of a vocal minority, the movies have been well received. Now, the true hardcore fans may not like it because they've spent years fantasising about what Luke and co did after Return of The Jedi so whatever story Disney told was always going to be met with resistance from some quarters. But for fans like me who just see those movies as silly entertainment, the movies succeed in doing what they set out to do. They're not perfect. I didn't like it when Han died. I didn't like how Leia seemingly ignored Chewbacca after he returned. I didn't like how Leia's force powers were handled and I'm not particularly fond of Finn as a character. Not to mention the fact that these movies don't seem to have a proper villain. But the story is good by Star Wars standards. The action is among the series best. The dialogue, such as it is, is definitely at an all time high for the Star Wars series. It looks spectacular and at least they're not as predictable as what's come before. It's harmless entertainment. Same as it ever was. Only now, it's more consistent.

Do you understand who fans were assaulting Lucus, prior?

Shithop music is very successful too, doesn't mean it is quality lol

OldFriends4Sale said:

CherryMoon57 said: