EmmaMcG said:

namepeace said:

Way too much time was spent on the time-travel element, which seemed to me to be a convenient vehicle for the characters to tie up loose ends left from 11 years worth of films. I would have much preferred that time was spent on the final battle, which was what we'd always wanted to see and, though far too brief, delivered.

Three hours of the final battle, fun as it was, would have been a one way ticket to migraine country.

DaveT said:

namepeace said:

Way too much time was spent on the time-travel element, which seemed to me to be a convenient vehicle for the characters to tie up loose ends left from 11 years worth of films. I would have much preferred that time was spent on the final battle, which was what we'd always wanted to see and, though far too brief, delivered.

Three hours of the final battle, fun as it was, would have been a one way ticket to migraine country.

Didn't want a 3-hour battle as you say, but another 15-20 minutes would have been just right.

i went to see it for a second time wednesday. not to sound like too much of a contrarian, but the big ending battle is the only part of the film that underwhelms me a little. i think it's probably the best of these large scale action scenes we've seen in a mcu film, and it had moments that i absolutely loved, but i still had that feeling i so often get from these cgi explosions; that i'm no longer watching people, that i'm looking at weightless animation. i'm not singling out this one movie, cuz i've felt this way about lots & lots of big budget films, & this is far from the worst offender. but i always walk away feeling like something's not quite there in those big moments.

i think the rest of the film was terrific, all perfectly paced in my books. i thought that the caper section in the middle might not work quite as well on a re-watch, but i still had a perfectly good time there and all through the film, & never felt its length. & i think the ending has a genuine emotional kick, one that i've never had with an mcu film.

personally, i don't think it could have been much better. gets a 5/5 from me. i might try to sneak in another watch this weekend.

I find it odd that Hank Pym's van, of all the car's seen parked and abandoned, got towed and impounded? (and I totally do not buy that a rat just happened to press a button to let him out)

OnlyNDaUsa said:

EmmaMcG said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I find it odd that Hank Pym's van, of all the car's seen parked and abandoned, got towed and impounded? (and I totally do not buy that a rat just happened to press a button to let him out)

Dr Strange estimated their chances of success to be 14,000,605-1. So, how likely was it that a rat would press the right button? The city would be teeming with rats after the snap. Rats breed faster than humans so the rat population would still be high. So we can assume that rats are everywhere. Therefore, it's not unlikely that a rat would be in the van. Now, how likely is it that the rat would hit the right button? We don't know if there is a combination of buttons that are required to bring Scott back or if it's just the one button press that will do it. But if it's just one button, then it's highly likely that the rat would press it. In fact, it's a wonder how it took 5 full years. So I reckon that it's not too unusual for the rat to bring Scott back in the manner it did. But if you still think it's unlikely, I'll refer you again to Dr Strange's 14,000,605-1 odds. And I'll say that he factored in that rat stepping on the right button at the right time in his odds. Also, this is a superhero fantasy movie featuring a talking raccoon, a god with a magic hammer and a Red-skulled nazi living in space who requires a sacrifice before he'll give you a magical stone. A rat standing on a button is not the strangest thing to happen in this movie.

God and talking rabits and floating skeltons handing out prety rocks is part of the movies internal logic.. a rat that happned to push a button on a van that was for no reason impounded (when many others were not) seems to be in violation of such...

OnlyNDaUsa said:

EmmaMcG said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

God and talking rabits and floating skeltons handing out prety rocks is part of the movies internal logic.. a rat that happned to push a button on a van that was for no reason impounded (when many others were not) seems to be in violation of such...

Well that's why Dr Strange said there was a one in 14 million chance of everything coming together for an Avengers win.

maybe in the other 14,000,604 the rat did not few him?

OnlyNDaUsa said:

EmmaMcG said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

maybe in the other 14,000,604 the rat did not few him?

Exactly. It's all about the rat.

it should have been a squirrel!

Dauphin said:

TrevorAyer said:

TrevorAyer said:

Time travel in any movie will always make zero sense. Because, at least to humanity's knowledge, it's impossible in real life. So I personally try not to focus on that aspect lol

But one thing I can't help but point out is.... if going back in the past and changing something won't effect your timeline, but create another, then how the hell do we see old Cap sitting on the bench right after the younger Cap was sent back???

According to their own time travel rules, this does not make any sense. Unless we're watching the timeline in which Captain America creates by staying in the past and not returning...

Other than the plotholes, I really loved this movie. I kinda figured that Tony would die by sacrificing himself for the greater good because:

A: Every comic book nerd on the internet has been predicting that Captain America would die and Tony would basically go into retirement.

--me being the smart mofo that I am immediately dismissed this because it was just a Marvel fanboys wet dream to keep RDJ in the MCU as long as possible. Really lame theory by the entire community and after giving some thought, I felt the writers would do the entire opposite. And they actually did. I was right.

B: It's a good ending to Tony Stark's character as Steve Rogers told him in the very first Avengers "you're not the guy to make the sacrifice play." So it's good to see Tony prove him wrong and I think Steve admired Tony in the end and loved him. "The Earth just lost its best defender," he said, speaking of Tony, in Infinity War.

And after all the sadness it was just good to see Steve finally have his dance. That's just a great way to conclude the MCU right there. I almost don't want to see anymore Marvel movies after this one because this just feels like a satisfying end to the MCU, or atleast the two main characters.

But they completely wasted Thor in this movie. The fat gag was funny for like five mintutes, then it just got old and stale fast. There should have been a moment where he became the Infinity War-Thor again where he's a badass willing take down the mad titan. I mean he gets badass in the finale fight but not anywhere as the level of cool as in Infinity War where he arrived on Wakanda and gave everyone some hope. It felt like they FINALLY got his character right in Ragnarok and continued developping him as a character in Infinity War, yet they just screwed the pooch so hard here. They ruined it. I get it, he's depressed. But come on! He's the God of Thunder, Son of Odin, rightful KING of ASGARD.

I don't even want to talk about Hulk.

Other than those two things, this movie was damn near perfect. 9/10. It was fun watching them go back in time to the Battle of New York in 2012 and other movies...made me laugh and made me sit on the edge of my seat..... next it made me cry.

[Edited 5/7/19 19:53pm]

AvocadosMax said:

EmmaMcG said:

AvocadosMax said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

EmmaMcG said:

OnlyNDaUsa said: He is still 15. Again, this is explained and shown in the movie. I think you need to see it again. And this time, pay attention

i was speaking legally

Not addressed but I guess your legal age would be adjusted to the snap but that means if you've been snapped the age on you passport has to be differentiated from your birthdate.

The whole paperwork anyway following that situation will be hell. Just imagine your parents were snapped, you inherited, they come back, you gotta give back, what if you spent or sold everything, what if you inbvested everything in a business and selling it will put you in the streets?

A whole movie could be based on those problems, but unfortunately MCU movies, in all their greatness, hardly ever address the consequences of what happens from the ordinary citizens' perspective, so I'm pretty sure most of this will be ignored in far from Home and following films, only focusing on the consequences the snap had on the heroes. Which is OK I guess, it's sort of the same with the post-snap world, it's up to us to fill in the gaps if we wish to try and imagine it.

EmmaMcG said:

onlyforaminute said:

Yeah, i just got tripped up by the girl. I got the rest. I wasn't able to see it again this weekend. Quill will win Gamora over again. I'm behind on SHIELD where the hell was Coulson? This is where he started.

Are you sure you want to know? I don't want to ruin Agents of Shield for you but there's a very valid reason why Coulson isn't there. What I really want to know is where was Daredevil, Iron Fist, Luke Cage and Jessica Jones. I mean, I know Marvel aren't allowed to use them in movies until next year due to their deal with Netflix but it would have been nice had they worked out some kind of deal for a cameo in Endgame. After all, they are established heroes in the MCU continuity. Oh well, maybe next time.

They're allowed to use them, they just chose not to.

Why they never connected in-universe is up to everyone's guess. I think off screen Tony probaly knew about Jessica and Luke, since they're public figures, and he may have tried to recruit them for Civil War but they sent him to hell because it was not their fight. And Tony probably didn't know about Danny and didn't bother chasing Matt because he's just a vigilante believed to be without powers, and when it comes to Frank, well, he's definitely not legal anyway.

As for Runaways and Cloak and Dagger they're still stuck in 2015 for now but I don't think they'll become public anytime before CW or even IW happen in-universe.

.

All those characters are low level but I'm way more concerned about the mess AoS made off things: Coulson appeared on TV once (albeit not as himself) but no one noticed he ain't dead. Inhumans mutations are never mentioned once in the films while they're supposed to be a big things in-universe. Shield is officially recreated but no one seems to bother let alone Nick who's doing God knows what with Maria. And so on... The Netflix, Hulu and Freeform characters are relatively low profile so they can be in their own corner, but AoS made the huge mistake of staging near world-shattering events and it appears no one cares, not even Inhumans or Quake mention in CW... That, and the Inhumans show fiasco in terms of quality (not that AoS was awlays great either), really depressed me. Not that it can't be explained if you just assume the films characters know but never mention it on-screen, but it really makes little sense.

[Edited 5/12/19 10:32am]

EmmaMcG said:

AvocadosMax said:

Time travel in any movie will always make zero sense. Because, at least to humanity's knowledge, it's impossible in real life. So I personally try not to focus on that aspect lol

But one thing I can't help but point out is.... if going back in the past and changing something won't effect your timeline, but create another, then how the hell do we see old Cap sitting on the bench right after the younger Cap was sent back???

According to their own time travel rules, this does not make any sense. Unless we're watching the timeline in which Captain America creates by staying in the past and not returning...

The Russo brothers talked about that. They said that Captain America lived with Agent Carter in a different timeline. Then, when we see him at the end, he has jumped back over to his original timeline to give Falcon his shield. They purposely don't explain exactly how he made the jump back incase Marvel wanted to make another Captain America movie down the line, in which case they'd leave the exact method up to whatever filmmaker is involved. But we know that the other timeline will have its own team of Avengers (complete with its own Captain America) and therefore its not unreasonable to assume that these "alternate Avengers" have also come up with a method of inter-dimensional travel, which they used to help get Cap back to his original timeline. My own theory is a little different though. If you've seen the newest Spider-Man trailer then you'll know that Mysterio comes from another dimension. They say that The Snap opened up a gateway to other worlds and that's how Mysterio got from his Earth to ours. I think it's possible that Captain America got back the same way.

More simply, Steve now knowing about Pym particules may have made it easy for him to go and talk Pym, Tony and Bruce into rebuilding the machine for him in his own timeline.

On the other hand one apparent plothole IMHO is just: since Bruce says clearly it will take Steve "as much time as he needs", why couldn't Steve just keep the costume and particules and come back 5 seconds later... after living his whole life with Peggy. Him coming back as an old man would have been as cool as him sitting on a bench out of nowhere. The problem is there's a disagreement between the writers and the Russo bros about this. McFeely and Markus claim Steve spent his life with Peggy in the main timeline (which makes little sense) while the Russo bros, as you say, say it was another timeline. I'm with the Russo bros with that but now we have to imagine a reason why old Steve couldn't use the suit to come back, but maybe it broke after all those years, or he had some adventures that led into him losing it, who knows...So no established plothole but, as often with the MCU, it's up to the fans to fill the gaps with their creative imaginations

databank said:

The Avengers: Endgame writers Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely explain why the Netflix charcters didn't appear in the movies:

sexton said:

The Avengers: Endgame writers Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely explain why the Netflix charcters didn't appear in the movies:

"We would have to introduce these five characters — or whatever many," McFeely said. "We already are assuming people have seen a lot of the movies. Are we really going to assume they have bought a subscription to Netflix and watched those shows enough so that when they see them, they’re going to go 'yay?'"

... the Endgame team felt mainstream fans might not know enough about these characters to introduce them into a major blockbuster.

Markus also added that the entire idea of bringing in the Marvel Netflix characters "screws up the timelines," noting you would have to assume they were all snapped away. Otherwise, why wouldn't they have shown up in Infinity War?

Instead, all fans got was Agent Carter's Jarvis, and there wasn't even room for the Inhumans in the war against Thanos. And, for what it's worth, Markus added there was no way to bring in the X-Men or Fantastic Four since production on the film predated Disney's acquisition of 21st Century Fox.

Link: https://www.cbr.com/aveng...x-heroes/

EmmaMcG said:

databank said:

They're allowed to use them, they just chose not to.

Why they never connected in-universe is up to everyone's guess. I think off screen Tony probaly knew about Jessica and Luke, since they're public figures, and he may have tried to recruit them for Civil War but they sent him to hell because it was not their fight. And Tony probably didn't know about Danny and didn't bother chasing Matt because he's just a vigilante believed to be without powers, and when it comes to Frank, well, he's definitely not legal anyway.

As for Runaways and Cloak and Dagger they're still stuck in 2015 for now but I don't think they'll become public anytime before CW or even IW happen in-universe.

.

All those characters are low level but I'm way more concerned about the mess AoS made off things: Coulson appeared on TV once (albeit not as himself) but no one noticed he ain't dead. Inhumans mutations are never mentioned once in the films while they're supposed to be a big things in-universe. Shield is officially recreated but no one seems to bother let alone Nick who's doing God knows what with Maria. And so on... The Netflix, Hulu and Freeform characters are relatively low profile so they can be in their own corner, but AoS made the huge mistake of staging near world-shattering events and it appears no one cares, not even Inhumans or Quake mention in CW... That, and the Inhumans show fiasco in terms of quality (not that AoS was awlays great either), really depressed me. Not that it can't be explained if you just assume the films characters know but never mention it on-screen, but it really makes little sense.

[Edited 5/12/19 10:32am]

No, they aren't allowed to use them until next year at the earliest. Check out this link https://www.google.com/am...-fist/amp/ A lot of that stuff is older news, you'll notice that the date on the story is from December. Since then, it's been confirmed that Charlie Cox's original contract for Daredevil also included the option for MCU movie appearances. But due to Daredevil being cancelled, it means that his potential Endgame cameo couldn't happen. Now, I suppose if Marvel/Disney REALLY wanted it to happen, they could have worked something out. But it would have been too much effort for what would have been a needless cameo. They do seem to have future plans for the character though. Whether that be movie appearances or another TV show on Disney+ remains to be seen. I'd personally go for Spider-Man 3 to feature Kingpin as the main villain and have Daredevil team up with Spider-Man to take him down once and for all. But that's probably just wishful thinking. [Edited 5/12/19 12:36pm]

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