DaveT said:

Surely he couldn't have survived the Death Star II explosion, given that he was chucked down a massive void by Vader, then the space station itself blew up.

he could have survived by doing a Mary Poppins flight like Leia in that shitfest called The Last Jedi though LOL

BombSquad said:

DaveT said:

Surely he couldn't have survived the Death Star II explosion, given that he was chucked down a massive void by Vader, then the space station itself blew up.

he could have survived by doing a Mary Poppins flight like Leia in that shitfest called The Last Jedi though LOL

God, I'd forgotten about that! I guess anything's possible.

I need to watch The Last Jedi again. I only saw it once at the cinema and I came out raving about it ... I've got a horrible feeling though that I'll actually realise it was a bit pants. Best to stay with the memory? ...

DaveT said:

DaveT said:

"The Mandalorian" sounds like a cool idea at first but I think it is just another attempt to milk one of the formerly most mysterious characters, namely Boba Fett. He was such a cool figure back in the day when we knew very little about him but now it feels like Boba Fett overload to me.

First they introduced Jango Fett, then we found out that Boba is his son, and now that whole Boba Fett/Mandalorian mystique gets diminished again by focusing on some OTHER Mandalorian who basically looks just like Boba Fett,wearing an almost identical Mandalorian uniform?

.

The is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel´s back as far as Boba Fett´s mysterious aura is concerned. I know he was never meant to be what he then became to be for the fans and at some point there were plans to turn him into Darth Vader´s younger brother but I think creating a whole TV show dedicated to his planet and his culture without him even starring in it is a bit too much. On the other hand, if he were the main protagonist in the TV series, it would be a bad mistake, too. I think the Boba Fett character is a lost opportunity and the whole premise was killed when Lucas decided to let him fall into the Sarlacc.

KoolEaze said:

It hints twice at huge cameos in "Force Ghost" form.

EmmaMcG said:

KoolEaze said:

"The Mandalorian" sounds like a cool idea at first but I think it is just another attempt to milk one of the formerly most mysterious characters, namely Boba Fett. He was such a cool figure back in the day when we knew very little about him but now it feels like Boba Fett overload to me.

First they introduced Jango Fett, then we found out that Boba is his son, and now that whole Boba Fett/Mandalorian mystique gets diminished again by focusing on some OTHER Mandalorian who basically looks just like Boba Fett,wearing an almost identical Mandalorian uniform?

.

The is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel´s back as far as Boba Fett´s mysterious aura is concerned. I know he was never meant to be what he then became to be for the fans and at some point there were plans to turn him into Darth Vader´s younger brother but I think creating a whole TV show dedicated to his planet and his culture without him even starring in it is a bit too much. On the other hand, if he were the main protagonist in the TV series, it would be a bad mistake, too. I think the Boba Fett character is a lost opportunity and the whole premise was killed when Lucas decided to let him fall into the Sarlacc.

I don't get why anyone cares about Boba Fett anyway. He was a very minor character who died like an idiot. I don't see the appeal.

I agree, he was a very minor character and yes, he died in a stupid way but back in the day he became some sort of cult figure in the Star Wars universe, at least to some fans, and somehow the Boba Fett phenomenon turned into something bigger and in the end, even Boba Fett fans were fed up with how the writers tried to milk his story until it was just too much.

DaveT said:

I need to watch The Last Jedi again.

No you don't.

KoolEaze said:

EmmaMcG said:

KoolEaze said:

I agree, he was a very minor character and yes, he died in a stupid way but back in the day he became some sort of cult figure in the Star Wars universe, at least to some fans, and somehow the Boba Fett phenomenon turned into something bigger and in the end, even Boba Fett fans were fed up with how the writers tried to milk his story until it was just too much.

Snoke seems like the modern day Boba Fett. A character who creates a lot of intrigue among fans but is then killed off quite quickly, both revealing themselves to be nothing more than filler characters. And yet, "fans" of the series complain about one while lauding the other.

couldn't care less for Boba Fett, disposable useless character.... but anway:

there is a BIG difference. Boba was ALWAYS a side characer and never planned as the main villian.

but Snoke was. so killing him of is a slap in the face for the audience. and I'm not talking SW only, that would be stupid story telling in ANY trilogy.

and now? now we have no villian at all.... WTF?? good job Rian!

Snoke (just as Kylo Ren) could have been great if they had a greater plan and outline for the trilogy. but no, fucktwat Johnson started his story & movie before even having seen TFA and dropped all the pitches JJ had layed out. utter shite - for a trilogy! he also ignored Lucas and the old trilogies and foremost the characters, mainly Luke. unforgivable. he just inserted his own crap and tried to match existing characters into his standalone story. his only goal was to lay basics for his trilogy outside the Skywalker saga with that broomstick boy.

hey Johnson fucktwat, if you wanna do your own Science Fiction movie, fine. just not try to squeeze it into an existing storyline and universe that already existed 4 decades. Duh!

okay, the movie itself, even outside the SW universe it would be still just a so-so movie. stunning visuals I'll give him that, and fine acting indeed (yeah I said it). but: silly illogical action, dumb sidestories, boring main plot and last but not least misplaced humour, dumb slapstick mixed directly into dramatic scenes. fucking shit, it would fit better as a Spaceballs sequel

as standalone SciFi Movie: 3.5/10
as a Star Wars movie: 0/10

worst SW movie by far, even way below AOTC or TPM
gimme pod races, Jar Jar and sand philosophy anytime over this

I just hope for the new one that JJ drops TLJ and mainly ignores it (just like Rian Clusterfuck Johnson ignored TFA, giving him back the middle finger) and picks up his original story plans. make it a 3 hour movie and pack all your orignal 8+9 plot ideas into it, as far as possible. could be tough though cause Snoke and Luke are dead, but he'll find a way to adapt, I trust him. fixing Lukes lightsaber and Kylos mask is a good indication at least

[Edited 4/16/19 1:36am]

BombSquad said:

I lIke TLJ, the only gripe I have wit it is that it seems like nobody or anything that's hapening on screen matters. Rey's parents seem to be nobodies, Luke is treated like a nobody, Snoke is a nobody with no purpose other than filler, General Hux is a nobody and a clumsy filler character like Jar Jar, the whole casino part of the movie and all the characters are just there to fill up time to make the movie longer etc.

EmmaMcG said:

BombSquad said:

couldn't care less for Boba Fett, disposable useless character.... but anway:

there is a BIG difference. Boba was ALWAYS a side characer and never planned as the main villian.

but Snoke was. so killing him of is a slap in the face for the audience. and I'm not talking SW only, that would be stupid story telling in ANY trilogy.

and now? now we have no villian at all.... WTF?? good job Rian!

Snoke (just as Kylo Ren) could have been great if they had a greater plan and outline for the trilogy. but no, fucktwat Johnson started his story & movie before even having seen TFA and dropped all the pitches JJ had layed out. utter shite - for a trilogy! he also ignored Lucas and the old trilogies and foremost the characters, mainly Luke. unforgivable. he just inserted his own crap and tried to match existing characters into his standalone story. his only goal was to lay basics for his trilogy outside the Skywalker saga with that broomstick boy.

hey Johnson fucktwat, if you wanna do your own Science Fiction movie, fine. just not try to squeeze it into an existing storyline and universe that already existed 4 decades. Duh!

okay, the movie itself, even outside the SW universe it would be still just a so-so movie. stunning visuals I'll give him that, and fine acting indeed (yeah I said it). but: silly illogical action, dumb sidestories, boring main plot and last but not least misplaced humour, dumb slapstick mixed directly into dramatic scenes. fucking shit, it would fit better as a Spaceballs sequel

as standalone SciFi Movie: 3.5/10
as a Star Wars movie: 0/10

worst SW movie by far, even way below AOTC or TPM
gimme pod races, Jar Jar and sand philosophy anytime over this

I just hope for the new one that JJ drops TLJ and mainly ignores it (just like Rian Clusterfuck Johnson ignored TFA, giving him back the middle finger) and picks up his original story plans. make it a 3 hour movie and pack all your orignal 8+9 plot ideas into it, as far as possible. could be tough though cause Snoke and Luke are dead, but he'll find a way to adapt, I trust him

How do you know that Snoke was planned to be the main villain.

main villian besides Kylo Ren, yes. an educated guess on how JJ builds up his stories

but main, second or whatever. he was a pivotal role in TFA even TLJ. Boba never was anything, interchangeable and unimportant. remove or replace him and the story remains basically the same. so the comparison is simply wrong. Snoke had more words in his first 20 screen seconds than Boba in the entire trilogy

The only thing I didn't like about The Last Jedi was Kylo Ren not wearing his mask. With it, he looks like a menacing villain. Without it, not so much.

agreed

but let me ask. visuals aside, what DID you like in this movie? for the life of me I can't name a lot

I liked that Luke died. He's not the focus of this trilogy.

I had no problem with him dying (though no reason was given why he did) I had a problem with his portrayal contradicting everything we knew before.
the very guy who turned fucking Vader to the light side, wants to kill a kid in his sleep because he might turn bad?? gimme a fucking BREAK!! not even reacting when he heard that Han was killed... running away on an island... that shithead was in a fucking Coma during most of the movie. and leaving the Galaxy in a crisis yet for unknown reasons giving a map as to where he resides? huh? now what Luke!?

The humour in the movie doesn't bother me either because they've all had that. They are, after all, movies for children. Wizards, princesses, knights. It's a fairytale in space.

humor is okay, it was always part of SW. but here it was not paced well. Leia making funny comments when her whole fleet just got destroyed seconds ago? Finn Chaplin falling on the floor, or clowing around in his waterleaking suit like Benny Hill? BULLSHIT. but the iron-spaceship was the one that killed it for me, SW now becoming it's own parody

The Last Jedi is one of, if not the best reviewed movie of the entire saga. If you didn't like it, then I'm sorry you had to sit through a movie you didn't like, but given its near universal critical acclaim and massive success at the box office, they have no reason to make Episode 9 a massive departure from episode 8. Which is probably not what you want to hear it's true. So just prepare yourself for the possibility that you won't like this movie.

simultaniously it's also the most controversial one, so what?
and we have tons of box office blockbusters that were mediocre movies, so that's a non-argument

my main problem was that Rian dropped everything from TFA, Snoke, Kylos helmet and trying to be more evil and become new Vader, Reys lineage, wher did Lukes lightsaber come from, Knights of Ren, Lor San Tekka, First Order back story... and so on and so on. all that made the movie so highly unsatisfying when leaving the cinema

when Luke threw the lightsaber I knew the movie was done. it was symptomatic of the whole flic. no respect, just for a cheap laugh. when you watch TFA and TLJ back to back this renders the cliffhangin previous movie and quest for Luke as a usless unneeded waste of time. as did the first line of the opening crawl "The First order reigns" (*) what? how?? so TFA and the destroying of the Starkiller base was uselses, they suddenly rule the galaxy anyway, within minutes after the last movie?? there was no logic explanation, no continuity. just lazy awful storytelling

(*) The First order reigns translation: "I don't care what happend before. I wanna tell MY story. and for that I need the First Order as the ultimate ruling entity. so those four words must be enough explanation. live with it"

[Edited 4/16/19 3:28am]

I am not convinced the Emperor plays a major role in this at all...

On The Last Jedi: when Luke tosses the Lightsaber... I thought it was a test (if you know the first episode of "Kung Fu" you might have an idea what I was thinking) that if she went after the saber then she failed if she followed him she passed...and even as he went through his day... I thought it was a test ans would end with her standing in the rain... and finally, we would hear Yoda's voice talking him into training her... (I also thought he would with the slightest of effort and a hand wave more like him brushing off his shoulder at the end...raise his X-WING... and she would be amazed... and they would be off...


As to changes... no trip to planet vegas...that got people killed... and was worthless to the story. And the chase would have been different... (if at all) maybe they stay in hyperspace... and can not come out... but it is a mess and nothing (well very little) to move the story forward.

As to changes... no trip to planet vegas...that got people killed... and was worthless to the story. And the chase would have been different... (if at all) maybe they stay in hyperspace... and can not come out...

agreed. and that silly purple cunt who just could have said "hey, here's my plan to escape the boring silly main plot, and to save most of us. so no need for mutiny, panic or getting riled up for anyone. okay?" BAD WRITING

add to that that basically no character got any meaningful development. or even the contrary, Finn started the journey to hero in TFA... and now suddenly wants to get away and save his butt? BAD WRITING

I could go on and on and on...

OnlyNDaUsa said:

...but it is a mess and nothing (well very little) to move the story forward.

that's why I'm confident that JJ can (and will) pretty much skip most of what happened in TLJ without losing anything essential to the story arc, and continue where he left in TFA

in the long run TLJ will only be a strange and odd atrocity and footnote within the saga

[Edited 4/16/19 4:44am]

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I am not convinced the Emperor plays a major role in this at all...

the problem is, that Clusterfuck Johnson killed of Snoke, and Kylo is a joke, already got kicked his butt several times. but to build up a new villian he has just one movie. so Palpatine may be an easy way, to have an instant villian people know and who does not need much introduction. however, I'm not sure I like the idea... certainly not in flesh, and I also have some doubts as force ghost.... we'll see

BombSquad said:

EmmaMcG said:

BombSquad said:

simultaniously it's also the most controversial one, so what?
and we have tons of box office blockbusters that were mediocre movies, so that's a non-argument

my main problem was that Rian dropped everything from TFA, Snoke, Kylos helmet and trying to be more evil and become new Vader, Reys lineage, wher did Lukes lightsaber come from, Knights of Ren, Lor San Tekka, First Order back story... and so on and so on. all that made the movie so highly unsatisfying when leaving the cinema

when Luke threw the lightsaber I knew the movie was done. it was symptomatic of the whole flic. no respect, just for a cheap laugh. when you watch TFA and TLJ back to back this renders the cliffhangin previous movie and quest for Luke as a usless unneeded waste of time. as did the first line of the opening crawl "The First order reigns" (*) what? how?? so TFA and the destroying of the Starkiller base was uselses, they suddenly rule the galaxy anyway, within minutes after the last movie?? there was no logic explanation, no continuity. just lazy awful storytelling

(*) The First order reigns translation: "I don't care what happend before. I wanna tell MY story. and for that I need the First Order as the ultimate ruling entity. so those four words must be enough explanation. live with it"

[Edited 4/16/19 3:28am]

The Last Jedi is only controversial because fanboys were angry that the movie didn't play out the way they expected it to.

old but still a silly defense. we had expectations when Empire came out, yet hardly aynthing was fulfilled. did I expect Han to be frozen? did I expect DV beeing Lukes father? did I expect giant metal dinosaurs? did I expect a small green swamp troll to be a Jedi master? no. no. and no. YET I WAS BLOWN AWAY by the movie

the problem is not to give what people expect. the problem is that things were build up in TFA and then simply dropped. the problem is Kathleen Kennedy HAD NO LARGER PLAN. she went for a creator/director driven approach for each single movie, so the same shit that turned the DC movie universe into an inconsitent clusterfuck

But there's a reason why Rian Johnson was chosen as director. He was coming off the back of a very successful, critically acclaimed sci fi film. The Force Awakens was criticised for being too similar to the previous movies. So changes were made to TLJ to ensure it would stand out.

no. they did admit that Johnson had his storys outline before TFA came out

and again I ask, even if you see it as a stand alone non-SW movie, what stands out on TLJ, except for visuals?

...and taking the mask off Kylo so he doesn't come across as a "poor man's Vader", as I've seen him described in Force Awakens.

the poor mans Vader was actually a great plot point. JJ had the impossible task to come up with a story that never can be beat the originals. and he could never come up with a villian that could beat Vader. so what did he do? make this dilemma part of the story! the main villian being quite aware that he can not live up to the standards, yet he tries his best. matching behind the screen dilemma and on screen dilemma - genius idea.

As for the humour, Leia has a history of quips following devastating moments. In A New Hope, not long after her planet is destroyed, she's cracking wise to Luke about being too short to be a Stormtrooper. Again, this kind of humour, even following sad moments in the story, is nothing new to Star Wars. And as far as Luke thinking about killing Ben Solo, I don't see that as being out of character. Don't forget that scene in Return of the Jedi when the Emperor is unarmed and goading Luke into killing him, Luke actually tries to kill him. Only Darth Vader stops him, saving both the Emperor and Luke in the process.

one was the personified evil... and by killing him he would save the galaxy...

the other was a little student on Lukes own watch.....

I think you see the difference....

And with regards to Rey's lineage, there is always the possibility that Kylo was lying about it in order to get her on his side. She might well turn out to be a Skywalker or a Kenobi. I'm sure we'll find out in episode 9.

sure, and I'm confident that will happen. as I was hoping the very moment I left the cinema after TLJ. and that's what I meant when I said that JJ will drop most of the previous movie

The Last Jedi is the middle part of a trilogy. It's only "Act 2" of the story. I don't think it's fair to judge it so harshly before seeing the rest of the story play out.

yes, it's the middle part, technically. and that is exactly the problem. the movie does not FIT after TFA and it did not position itself as a middle part of a greater story arc. maybe, after fixing the inbuilt flaws (main plot, side plot, some dumb action) it would have been okay I guess as the opening for Rians own trilogy: leaving Skywalker or even the whole Jedi behind and exploring new territory

[Edited 4/16/19 5:36am]

BombSquad said:

EmmaMcG said:

To answer your question about what I like about The Last Jedi, I liked the fact that they ripped up the typical Star Wars formula. I liked the unpredictable nature of it. [...] I liked that they hinted that every major event in the Galaxy doesn't have to involve members of the same family.

indeed, but that is exactly why I think it would have fit so much better as a start of a new non-Skywalker trilogy

Not just because it's similar to Obi Wan but also how he projected himself across the galaxy.

another plot hole for me, alse when Kylo and Ren "spoke" with the Force : after 1000 generations, they suddenly find out that the Force can be used as a 3D Facetime substitute? lawd...

Is it a perfect movie? Of course not. But as a second part in a trilogy, it did what it needed to do and also completely eliminated any aspect of predictability. And it makes me look forward to episode 9 even more because I don't know what to expect.

is it the worst movie ? Of course not (outside Star Wars I mean, hehe)

but anyway, thanks for answering. let's cross our fingers for Ep9, at least we can agree that we are all excited to see what he comes up with

BombSquad said:

EmmaMcG said:

EmmaMcG said:

KoolEaze said:

" a lost opportunity and the whole premise was killed when Lucas decided to let him fall into the Sarlacc.

I don't get why anyone cares about Boba Fett anyway. He was a very minor character who died like an idiot. I don't see the appeal.

I think Boba Fett would make a great expanded Star Wars univers film. Think Indiana Jones, but in space. Bounties can be for items AND People. I'm not a big fan of Boba Fett-I still think it would be interesting to create a film around him.

[Edited 4/17/19 0:51am]

SPOILER's GUESS ALERT:

1) The rise of Skywalkers probably has duel meanings. 1) Perhaps both Kylo and Rey are realizing their potential. The rise of both Skywalkers resulting in a battle of good vs evil.

2) Most likely Rey is a Skywalker (cloned) or is a sibiling of Kylo aka Ben Solo (actual bloodline of Skywalker). Or Rey takes on the name to continue the legend? Or she is Luke's child.

3) The emperor probably resides in the "remains" of the Death Star. And Kylo probably took out Snoke to be the emperor's apprentice.

[Edited 4/16/19 20:26pm]

kewlschool said:

SPOILER's GUESS ALERT:

2) Most likely Rey is a Skywalker (cloned) or is a sibiling of Kylo aka Ben Solo (actual bloodline of Skywalker). Or Rey takes on the name to continue the legend? Or she is Luke's child.

My guess is she Lukes child.

There is that scene where Rey goes to that cantina looking place that belongs to Maz?
Rey sneaks away and finds lukes lightsaber calling to her, then Maz speaks to her.

Thats whole scene reminds me of "The Empire strikes Back" Where Yoda makes Luke face his fear.

Luke wonders off in the swamp and fights Vader, but only to see a reflection of himself behind the mask. Indicating they are both skywalkers, family

Maz tells Rey "This was Luke's and his father's before him, and now it calls to you"

So its being passed down to her. (lukes daughter?)

Reys parents are said to be no one. But in the same scene above Rey has a flashback of her as a child crying out "Come back" and a ship flies away. It appears she is being left behind on the planet Jakuu. So maybe her real parent(s) are still alive while her adopted ones are now dead.

In the same scene Rey has a premonition of coming face to face with Kylo.

Does this means she must face confront family like Luke had to?

Or does it mean Kylo is her brother?

Did Maz use the foce and make Rey face her fears just like Yoda did? Though i recall Maz saying shes no jedi

Also when Rey finds Luke living like a hurmit. He refuses to teach her just like Yoda did in Empire Strikes Back.

Maybe because he knows the truth about her and Kylo?

Im leaning twards
60% Rey & Kylo are twins
40% Lukes daughter

FragileUndertow said:

kewlschool said:

SPOILER's GUESS ALERT:

2) Most likely Rey is a Skywalker (cloned) or is a sibiling of Kylo aka Ben Solo (actual bloodline of Skywalker). Or Rey takes on the name to continue the legend? Or she is Luke's child.

My guess is she Lukes child.

There is that scene where Rey goes to that cantina looking place that belongs to Maz?
Rey sneaks away and finds lukes lightsaber calling to her, then Maz speaks to her.

Thats whole scene reminds me of "The Empire strikes Back" Where Yoda makes Luke face his fear.

Luke wonders off in the swamp and fights Vader, but only to see a reflection of himself behind the mask. Indicating they are both skywalkers, family

Maz tells Rey "This was Luke's and his father's before him, and now it calls to you"

So its being passed down to her. (lukes daughter?)

Reys parents are said to be no one. But in the same scene above Rey has a flashback of her as a child crying out "Come back" and a ship flies away. It appears she is being left behind on the planet Jakuu. So maybe her real parent(s) are still alive while her adopted ones are now dead.

In the same scene Rey has a premonition of coming face to face with Kylo.

Does this means she must face confront family like Luke had to?

Or does it mean Kylo is her brother?

Did Maz use the foce and make Rey face her fears just like Yoda did? Though i recall Maz saying shes no jedi

Also when Rey finds Luke living like a hurmit. He refuses to teach her just like Yoda did in Empire Strikes Back.

Maybe because he knows the truth about her and Kylo?

Im leaning twards
60% Rey & Kylo are twins
40% Lukes daughter

That's interesting take "Fragile" on the who is she really. I think Kylo and Rey seem to polars of the same strength force wise. So, Rey could have been a clone twin given away at birth Yet, I still think Snoke was the face of the empire, but really was the apprentance of the Emperor who pulled the strings behind the empire. That is why Kylo needed Snoke out of the way.