So I'm watching this story in the last few days of the woman who accidentally got into a stranger's car thinking it was her Uber ride. She was murdered by the 25-year-old driver who trapped her in the car (because of childproof backseat locks), and her body was found in a field. She suffered multiple blunt force injuries. I'm not aware if the guy, who didn't live anywhere near the area, was there to purposely find someone to murder, or it was his happy coincidence.

A girl was who chained under a bed by some guy, for weeks, got away and was found alive.

Couple that with stories of people kidnapping children and murdering them, like Chris Watts who murdered his wife and shoved his children into an oil tank for a week before they were found. We know how that turned out; the gruesome details are truly horrific.

What I honestly don't get is why people kill. Maybe it should be a rhetorical question because do we ever really know? But these killings, as most everyone like this we hear about, are so random. A girl accidentally gets in a car and the guy thinks, "Oh, I'll murder her ass." Or instead of just getting a divorce, Watts kills his whole family - like no one would notice? So he can just go on with his girlfriend outside the marriage? All of it lacks basic logic. I mean, we all do stupid shit, but to go that far seems impossible to explain. But every night I sit and watched the news with my friend, I - at some point - blurt out, "That doesn't make any sense! WHY?!"

And I think we have to move beyond "he just snapped" or "some people are born bad". I don't believe either one of those, although maybe the former has an inkling of justification.

"What are mental issues?"

...for $100 Alex


Jokes aside, I watched a special on serial killers and then another on Ed Gein and mental/physical traumas, shit childhoods and various mental issues all play a role.

[Edited 4/1/19 16:25pm]

I think it's a range of reasons. And it's sloppy. I do believe some people are born that way, or at least born with the capacity and then environment plays it's role but then you do hear about those who did have the idyllic life and still behave as a true predator therefore it all can't be placed on environment. Serial killers seem so recent to history, that puzzles me, if that's true what triggered that kind of behavior?

The young lady that got in the Uber is just bizarre because you wonder at that randomness how many people are out there who will kill just for the sport of it. I've only just started checking the drivers pictures after I have jumped into a Lyft once that wasn't for me but it was the same type of vehicle mine was supposed to be. It was one of those location where there are a ton of those Uber/Lyft showing up.

[Edited 4/1/19 18:47pm]

People that murder have various reasons:

1. Murders of passion - maybe they get angry, maybe they get hurt, whatever the situation, it is usually a spur of the moment reaction. Wife cheated on him and he's hurt and angry and wants payback - and goes too far, without thought of the consequences.

2. Murders of greed - someone has something they want, money generally, and they will do anything to get it - doesn't matter whether it means taking a life because they believe they can get away with it, won't get caught, and the money will help them in some way or solve all of their problems

3. Murders of convenience - someone commits a crime and there is a witness, they know that witness can identify them, and they don't want to go to jail, they are afraid of losing their freedom, so they kill that person to cover up another crime - this could also be what happened with the USC student in Columbia, SC - maybe he raped her and was afraid she could identify him and so he killed her thinking he would get away with it

4. Sociopath/Psychopath personalities - These individuals feel no remorse, no shame, and believe they are above the law. They hold large images of themselves and their abilities in their own minds, and anyone that questions that image, threatens that image, is not worthy of living. Since they believe they're are above the law, believe they are smarter than investigators, they are convinced they are in the right. These can also be the murders for hire individuals. These are also the serial murderers.

5. Accidental murders - These are people who truly didn't intend to kill anyone, maybe they pushed them down because they were arguing and the person hit their head on a rock, which instantly killed them from the impact. They get scared, confused, aren't sure what to do, so they try to cover up the crime. Afterall, they didn't mean to do it, that wasn't their intent, so why should they go to jail for a crime they didn't mean to commit and was merely an accident? Others under this type of crime will report it immediately, because they didn't mean to take a life, and they feel they will be exonerated because it was just an accident.

6. Murders fueled by alcohol/drugs - These individuals are extremely drunk or high and aren't aware of what they are doing. They may take someone's life without realizing they did it, or think they are having some kind of visions or nightmare, and respond accordingly to whatever they think they are seeing. Their inhibitions are absent and so they act without realizing the full extent of what they are doing.

7. Murders by people that believe they have received a message from God or from somewhere - they are truly in the midst of a psychotic episode and having delusions. They act, thinking they are doing what they have been ordained or ordered to do, or are saving mankind.

I like to study the psychology and motivations of people, and these are the ones that I can come up with off the top of my head. No, murdering someone doesn't make sense, and it's a good thing that it doesn't make sense to us, but for those that murder they can always find a justification.

[Edited 4/2/19 23:22pm]

benni said:

People that murder have various reasons:

1. Murders of passion - maybe they get angry, maybe they get hurt, whatever the situation, it is usually a spur of the moment reaction. Wife cheated on him and he's hurt and angry and wants payback - and goes too far, without thought of the consequences.

2. Murders of greed - someone has something they want, money generally, and they will do anything to get it - doesn't matter whether it means taking a life because they believe they can get away with it, won't get caught, and the money will help them in some way or solve all of their problems

3. Murders of convenience - someone commits a crime and there is a witness, they know that witness can identify them, and they don't want to go to jail, they are afraid of losing their freedom, so they kill that person to cover up another crime - this could also be what happened with the USC student in Columbia, SC - maybe he raped her and was afraid she could identify him and so he killed her thinking he would get away with it

4. Sociopath/Psychopath personalities - These individuals feel no remorse, no shame, and believe they are above the law. They hold large images of themselves and their abilities in their own minds, and anyone that questions that image, threatens that image, is not worthy of living. Since they believe they're are above the law, believe they are smarter than investigators, they are convinced they are in the right. These can also be the murders for hire individuals. These are also the serial murderers.

5. Accidental murders - These are people who truly didn't intend to kill anyone, maybe they pushed them down because they were arguing and the person hit their head on a rock, which instantly killed them from the impact. They get scared, confused, aren't sure what to do, so they try to cover up the crime. Afterall, they didn't mean to do it, that wasn't their intent, so why should they go to jail for a crime they didn't mean to commit and was merely an accident? Others under this type of crime will report it immediately, because they didn't mean to take a life, and they feel they will be exonerated because it was just an accident.

6. Murders fueled by alcohol/drugs - These individuals are extremely drunk or high and aren't aware of what they are doing. They may take someone's life without realizing they did it, or think they are having some kind of visions or nightmare, and respond accordingly to whatever they think they are seeing. Their inhibitions are absent and so they act without realizing the full extent of what they are doing.

7. Murders by people that believe they have received a message from God or from somewhere - they are truly in the midst of a psychotic episode and having delusions. They act, thinking they are doing what they have been ordained or ordered to do, or are saving mankind.

I like to study the psychology and motivations of people, and these are the ones that I can come up with off the top of my head. No, murdering someone doesn't make sense, and it's a good thing that it doesn't make sense to us, but for those that murder they can always find a justification.

[Edited 4/2/19 23:22pm]

I work in a high security prison. I think it's more complex than this - for example who commit no1 in your list will often have problems such as those listed in no 6. Most no 2 murderers will have some no 4 tendancies. Almost all no 1 murderers that I know would believe they fall under category 5, i.e. when they sober up, or come off their high, that they become scared, confused and that they didn't intend to kill the person, it was just an argument that went too far - after all most crimes of passion are not pre-meditated, and many murderers truly loved the person they killed.

I'm think gang killings and/or revenge killings (often revenge killings are done by gang members) need a new categorie(s); also crimes of honor, for example when families believe a girl (usually) has bought shame upon their family. There's also terrorism - which can be murder on a mass scale.

As far as the Uber driver. I don't know the case, but from people I know he most likely thought he'd rape her, but maybe she fought back, or he got carried away. I doubt he set out to kill her. Good post though Benni. Especially the very last sentence - it's absolutely true that most find an excuse, they were drunk, she got into his taxi, they were on my patch etc...

[Edited 4/3/19 10:53am]

TrivialPursuit said:

So I'm watching this story in the last few days of the woman who accidentally got into a stranger's car thinking it was her Uber ride. She was murdered by the 25-year-old driver who trapped her in the car (because of childproof backseat locks), and her body was found in a field. She suffered multiple blunt force injuries. I'm not aware if the guy, who didn't live anywhere near the area, was there to purposely find someone to murder, or it was his happy coincidence.

A girl was who chained under a bed by some guy, for weeks, got away and was found alive.

Couple that with stories of people kidnapping children and murdering them, like Chris Watts who murdered his wife and shoved his children into an oil tank for a week before they were found. We know how that turned out; the gruesome details are truly horrific.

What I honestly don't get is why people kill. Maybe it should be a rhetorical question because do we ever really know? But these killings, as most everyone like this we hear about, are so random. A girl accidentally gets in a car and the guy thinks, "Oh, I'll murder her ass." Or instead of just getting a divorce, Watts kills his whole family - like no one would notice? So he can just go on with his girlfriend outside the marriage? All of it lacks basic logic. I mean, we all do stupid shit, but to go that far seems impossible to explain. But every night I sit and watched the news with my friend, I - at some point - blurt out, "That doesn't make any sense! WHY?!"

And I think we have to move beyond "he just snapped" or "some people are born bad". I don't believe either one of those, although maybe the former has an inkling of justification.

The Uber driver, as I said in my post to Benni, was likely opportunistic, maybe he thought he'd rape her, then she either fought back, or he panicked, or something. It's unlikely he planned to kill that night IMO.

Watts is different. He had his cake and was eating it (with wife and girlfriend). My guess is (I don't know a huge lot about this case) that his wife found out and was going to leave him. There's a common anger in men murderers who murder their wives that 'if I can't have them, nobody will', or "why should I give them anything when I earned it?" - this probably applied to his wife and kids, killing the kids causes the wife the ultimate pain, killing the wife gets rid of any divorce settlement. People watch too many films, they think they'll get away with it. Most don't. And the ultimate irony is they sometimes spend the next thirty years thinking, "why didn't I just let her leave?".

maplenpg said:

benni said:

People that murder have various reasons:

1. Murders of passion - maybe they get angry, maybe they get hurt, whatever the situation, it is usually a spur of the moment reaction. Wife cheated on him and he's hurt and angry and wants payback - and goes too far, without thought of the consequences.

2. Murders of greed - someone has something they want, money generally, and they will do anything to get it - doesn't matter whether it means taking a life because they believe they can get away with it, won't get caught, and the money will help them in some way or solve all of their problems

3. Murders of convenience - someone commits a crime and there is a witness, they know that witness can identify them, and they don't want to go to jail, they are afraid of losing their freedom, so they kill that person to cover up another crime - this could also be what happened with the USC student in Columbia, SC - maybe he raped her and was afraid she could identify him and so he killed her thinking he would get away with it

4. Sociopath/Psychopath personalities - These individuals feel no remorse, no shame, and believe they are above the law. They hold large images of themselves and their abilities in their own minds, and anyone that questions that image, threatens that image, is not worthy of living. Since they believe they're are above the law, believe they are smarter than investigators, they are convinced they are in the right. These can also be the murders for hire individuals. These are also the serial murderers.

5. Accidental murders - These are people who truly didn't intend to kill anyone, maybe they pushed them down because they were arguing and the person hit their head on a rock, which instantly killed them from the impact. They get scared, confused, aren't sure what to do, so they try to cover up the crime. Afterall, they didn't mean to do it, that wasn't their intent, so why should they go to jail for a crime they didn't mean to commit and was merely an accident? Others under this type of crime will report it immediately, because they didn't mean to take a life, and they feel they will be exonerated because it was just an accident.

6. Murders fueled by alcohol/drugs - These individuals are extremely drunk or high and aren't aware of what they are doing. They may take someone's life without realizing they did it, or think they are having some kind of visions or nightmare, and respond accordingly to whatever they think they are seeing. Their inhibitions are absent and so they act without realizing the full extent of what they are doing.

7. Murders by people that believe they have received a message from God or from somewhere - they are truly in the midst of a psychotic episode and having delusions. They act, thinking they are doing what they have been ordained or ordered to do, or are saving mankind.

I like to study the psychology and motivations of people, and these are the ones that I can come up with off the top of my head. No, murdering someone doesn't make sense, and it's a good thing that it doesn't make sense to us, but for those that murder they can always find a justification.

[Edited 4/2/19 23:22pm]

I work in a high security prison. I think it's more complex than this - for example who commit no1 in your list will often have problems such as those listed in no 6. Most no 2 murderers will have some no 4 tendancies. Almost all no 1 murderers that I know would believe they fall under category 5, i.e. when they sober up, or come off their high, that they become scared, confused and that they didn't intend to kill the person, it was just an argument that went too far - after all most crimes of passion are not pre-meditated, and many murderers truly loved the person they killed.

I'm think gang killings and/or revenge killings (often revenge killings are done by gang members) need a new categorie(s); also crimes of honor, for example when families believe a girl (usually) has bought shame upon their family. There's also terrorism - which can be murder on a mass scale.

As far as the Uber driver. I don't know the case, but from people I know he most likely thought he'd rape her, but maybe she fought back, or he got carried away. I doubt he set out to kill her. Good post though Benni. Especially the very last sentence - it's absolutely true that most find an excuse, they were drunk, she got into his taxi, they were on my patch etc...

[Edited 4/3/19 10:53am]

Oh, I definitely agree that it is more complex than I laid out. There are some that will cross multiple parts of the above listed. I just don't think that coming to a place of murdering someone is so clear cut and there are multiple factors at play. But I was trying to come up with some of the reasons that I've read about as to why people might murder. I didn't think about gang killings or revenge killings. And I think my Murders of Convenience is probably more a Murder of Opportunity, but I couldn't think of the word late last night. lol

And thanks maplenpg!

maplenpg said:

TrivialPursuit said:

So I'm watching this story in the last few days of the woman who accidentally got into a stranger's car thinking it was her Uber ride. She was murdered by the 25-year-old driver who trapped her in the car (because of childproof backseat locks), and her body was found in a field. She suffered multiple blunt force injuries. I'm not aware if the guy, who didn't live anywhere near the area, was there to purposely find someone to murder, or it was his happy coincidence.

A girl was who chained under a bed by some guy, for weeks, got away and was found alive.

Couple that with stories of people kidnapping children and murdering them, like Chris Watts who murdered his wife and shoved his children into an oil tank for a week before they were found. We know how that turned out; the gruesome details are truly horrific.

What I honestly don't get is why people kill. Maybe it should be a rhetorical question because do we ever really know? But these killings, as most everyone like this we hear about, are so random. A girl accidentally gets in a car and the guy thinks, "Oh, I'll murder her ass." Or instead of just getting a divorce, Watts kills his whole family - like no one would notice? So he can just go on with his girlfriend outside the marriage? All of it lacks basic logic. I mean, we all do stupid shit, but to go that far seems impossible to explain. But every night I sit and watched the news with my friend, I - at some point - blurt out, "That doesn't make any sense! WHY?!"

And I think we have to move beyond "he just snapped" or "some people are born bad". I don't believe either one of those, although maybe the former has an inkling of justification.

The Uber driver, as I said in my post to Benni, was likely opportunistic, maybe he thought he'd rape her, then she either fought back, or he panicked, or something. It's unlikely he planned to kill that night IMO.

Watts is different. He had his cake and was eating it (with wife and girlfriend). My guess is (I don't know a huge lot about this case) that his wife found out and was going to leave him. There's a common anger in men murderers who murder their wives that 'if I can't have them, nobody will', or "why should I give them anything when I earned it?" - this probably applied to his wife and kids, killing the kids causes the wife the ultimate pain, killing the wife gets rid of any divorce settlement. People watch too many films, they think they'll get away with it. Most don't. And the ultimate irony is they sometimes spend the next thirty years thinking, "why didn't I just let her leave?".

Your last paragraph is a scary statement to me. My first husband threatened to murder when I was ending that relationship due to his abuse and he used some of those very arguments to me. "If I can't have you, no one will" and "You aren't getting a damn penny from me. I worked for it, I earned it, and I ain't givin you a damn cent." Eventually, he agreed to give me custody of our son as long as I didn't go after him for childsupport. I agreed. I just wanted out. But I didn't really think he would murder me. I just didn't think he had it in him, but he was an alcoholic and I guess could have in a fit of rage while drinking. I'm glad I got out of that relationship.

benni said:

maplenpg said:

The Uber driver, as I said in my post to Benni, was likely opportunistic, maybe he thought he'd rape her, then she either fought back, or he panicked, or something. It's unlikely he planned to kill that night IMO.

Watts is different. He had his cake and was eating it (with wife and girlfriend). My guess is (I don't know a huge lot about this case) that his wife found out and was going to leave him. There's a common anger in men murderers who murder their wives that 'if I can't have them, nobody will', or "why should I give them anything when I earned it?" - this probably applied to his wife and kids, killing the kids causes the wife the ultimate pain, killing the wife gets rid of any divorce settlement. People watch too many films, they think they'll get away with it. Most don't. And the ultimate irony is they sometimes spend the next thirty years thinking, "why didn't I just let her leave?".

Your last paragraph is a scary statement to me. My first husband threatened to murder when I was ending that relationship due to his abuse and he used some of those very arguments to me. "If I can't have you, no one will" and "You aren't getting a damn penny from me. I worked for it, I earned it, and I ain't givin you a damn cent." Eventually, he agreed to give me custody of our son as long as I didn't go after him for childsupport. I agreed. I just wanted out. But I didn't really think he would murder me. I just didn't think he had it in him, but he was an alcoholic and I guess could have in a fit of rage while drinking. I'm glad I got out of that relationship.

Benni, that sounds so scary glad you could escape from this person.

ThatWhiteDude said:

benni said:

Your last paragraph is a scary statement to me. My first husband threatened to murder when I was ending that relationship due to his abuse and he used some of those very arguments to me. "If I can't have you, no one will" and "You aren't getting a damn penny from me. I worked for it, I earned it, and I ain't givin you a damn cent." Eventually, he agreed to give me custody of our son as long as I didn't go after him for childsupport. I agreed. I just wanted out. But I didn't really think he would murder me. I just didn't think he had it in him, but he was an alcoholic and I guess could have in a fit of rage while drinking. I'm glad I got out of that relationship.

Benni, that sounds so scary glad you could escape from this person.

Me, too. Our son is still in contact with him, but he has even said that he's just not a good person. That's pretty sad coming from a son. But my son, I think, is still trying to win his approval, and he just won't ever get it. It's not in his dad to approve of anything his dad does.

But he went through a wide range of threats towards me when I first left - "I'll kill you"..."I'll you and Josh"..."I'll kill you, Josh, and myself"....before finally settling on, "I'll take off with Josh and you'll never see him again." <--- That one, I could see him doing and went back for a short time before finally leaving completely and telling him that we seemed to bring out the worst in each other. That's when he agreed to give me custody as long as I didn't go after him for child support. That was something I could agree to easily.

But, I also lost my mom to domestic violence. She died from the blood clotting condition we have, but the weekend prior to her death, she was beaten relentlessly. My aunt told me a few years ago, that the beating she took is what caused all those clots to form that killed her. He was a psychopath. He died alone when I was 18.

benni said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Benni, that sounds so scary glad you could escape from this person.

Me, too. Our son is still in contact with him, but he has even said that he's just not a good person. That's pretty sad coming from a son. But my son, I think, is still trying to win his approval, and he just won't ever get it. It's not in his dad to approve of anything his dad does.

But he went through a wide range of threats towards me when I first left - "I'll kill you"..."I'll you and Josh"..."I'll kill you, Josh, and myself"....before finally settling on, "I'll take off with Josh and you'll never see him again." <--- That one, I could see him doing and went back for a short time before finally leaving completely and telling him that we seemed to bring out the worst in each other. That's when he agreed to give me custody as long as I didn't go after him for child support. That was something I could agree to easily.

But, I also lost my mom to domestic violence. She died from the blood clotting condition we have, but the weekend prior to her death, she was beaten relentlessly. My aunt told me a few years ago, that the beating she took is what caused all those clots to form that killed her. He was a psychopath. He died alone when I was 18.

I'm sorry to hear your stories Benni. Sadly threatening partners when a relationship breaks down is all too common. Thankfully only a tiny minority actually go through with threats to kill, and it heartens me to know that many regret it afterwards (not that it brings anyone back). I do wish the after-stories of these men would be shown more. That they could tell the world how shit a thirty year stint really is, how if they could turn back the clock, they would. Yet on the other hand I think the infamy of being a killer, especially a mass shooter, has become attractive to some, so in that sense I'm against giving airtime to some, I dunno, it's complicated.

Domestic violence is a massive problem, all we can do is continue to empower people to have the courage to leave. Something which is much easier now than it was even a couple of decades ago. Yet something which there is still not enough help out there to do.

TrivialPursuit said:

Why do people kill? Sin

TheTruth123 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

So I'm watching this story in the last few days of the woman who accidentally got into a stranger's car thinking it was her Uber ride. She was murdered by the 25-year-old driver who trapped her in the car (because of childproof backseat locks), and her body was found in a field. She suffered multiple blunt force injuries. I'm not aware if the guy, who didn't live anywhere near the area, was there to purposely find someone to murder, or it was his happy coincidence.

A girl was who chained under a bed by some guy, for weeks, got away and was found alive.

Couple that with stories of people kidnapping children and murdering them, like Chris Watts who murdered his wife and shoved his children into an oil tank for a week before they were found. We know how that turned out; the gruesome details are truly horrific.

What I honestly don't get is why people kill. Maybe it should be a rhetorical question because do we ever really know? But these killings, as most everyone like this we hear about, are so random. A girl accidentally gets in a car and the guy thinks, "Oh, I'll murder her ass." Or instead of just getting a divorce, Watts kills his whole family - like no one would notice? So he can just go on with his girlfriend outside the marriage? All of it lacks basic logic. I mean, we all do stupid shit, but to go that far seems impossible to explain. But every night I sit and watched the news with my friend, I - at some point - blurt out, "That doesn't make any sense! WHY?!"

And I think we have to move beyond "he just snapped" or "some people are born bad". I don't believe either one of those, although maybe the former has an inkling of justification.

People aren’t bad, they just do bad things. These things have always happened, TP. The media has just simply highlighted them in recent years. I think the cause of things like this are that 1) some people are truly mentally ill; and 2) those who aren’t get into a blackout of anger and despair about something totally unrelated, and take it out on someone innocent, even though they know there’ll be consequences, and they’re so hopeless that they feel it’s “the end” and they can never see their way out of their rage, so they do something severe to “go out” in flames. 90% of men in state prison say their crime really had to do with a woman. That’s the other thing. Pride and ego kill. And then there are those who are on drugs. So there are different reasons. However I don’t let the media manipulate me. Our experience here can be way better than all of that. An important thing is to keep yourself safe. Make sure you have the resources to be in a safe living environment and also safe emotionally. These things usually happen after people have been in bars or gambling institutions etc.

Do you have sources for the bold? 90% Certainly isn't the case in British prisons by a long, long, long, long stretch, and I don't see the US being that much different. Also 'these things' can happen anywhere, yes often drink and drugs are involved but I certainly wouldn't use the adverb 'usually', and certainly I wouldn't have included gambling institutions, where the end result if there are huge debts is more often suicide than murder.

benni said:

1. Murders of passion - maybe they get angry, maybe they get hurt, whatever the situation, it is usually a spur of the moment reaction. Wife cheated on him and he's hurt and angry and wants payback - and goes too far, without thought of the consequences.

I would refer to it partly as murder of frustration. The less you got the chance to express and get bad feelings away the more you're likely to commit violences (which can turn into murder).

maplenpg said:

TheTruth123 said:

ThisOne said:

ThisOne said:

Having read all the replies, I think ultimately we'll never fully understand why someone is narcissistic and eventually murderous. It's so extreme, I'm not sure we ever will. We can certainly learn things around why someone does something like this and put a label or behavior profile on it beyond those cases of self-defense.

And it all has validity. Except, the act itself.