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Thread started 12/22/18 7:10am

happinessinits
uncutform

Anyone else feel uncomfortable with 'Body Positivity'?

I get the point the movement is trying to highlight, what gets me is this inevitable promotion of clearly unhealthy body conditions that comes with it. There are many foreign places out there that could really implement this social ideology to bring about a postiive shift in their cultures...but does AMERICA need this? The country where obesity is the 2nd leading cause of preventable death followed by tabacco usage YET 1 out of 3 adults are obese?? Number of patients hospitalized due to diseases and health problems driven from being overweight is constantly expanding...AND we have one of the most outdated healthcare systems among developed nations...This is a crisis, yet folks want to broadcast "all bodies are beautiful" / "love your body no matter what anyone tells you".

It's OK to not be happy with your body, with your conditions,,,that's where the motivation for change comes from. The ideology should revolve around HEALTH not beauty, and I can't help but think that this movement is doing more harm than good here...thoughts?

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Reply #1 posted 12/22/18 11:44am

loveandkindnes
s

yeah I get your point...the objective is to be healthy obesity is NOT healthy.PERIOD>>>> be happy with your body for sure.... skinny is not healthy . a healthy body is a happy body and happy mind. On the flip side no need to pump up your azz and tips and lips and pecks because you feel you need to look like a hollywood "roll model" body image is such a media driven directive.

Be healthy be happy.. this one too hot....this one too cold.....this one Juuust right..

Loveandkindness
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Reply #2 posted 12/22/18 5:53pm

onlyforaminute

Idk. Seems to me hating oneself doesn't stop people from leading unhealthy life styles while loving oneself as is might lead to someone taking a deeper interest in taking care of themselves. I mean in the culture there are still messages on what it takes to lead a healthier life along side the messages of self appreciation. Guess that's the problem of being in a free society people do get to choose for themselves right or wrong.
Year of Return 2019
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Reply #3 posted 12/23/18 8:37am

DaveT

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IMO been unhealthy through being overweight is the same as being unhealthy through being underweight, yet there doesn't seem to be the same push to tell very skinny people that its ok. We're normalising obesity just to make greedy/lazy people feel ok.

Normal/healthy weight is called that for a reason. I don't agree with telling people its ok being too fat or too skinny, not just for their own health but for the the time and resource the knock-on health issues will require from the NHS/health service. Its not fair on people that require health support for un-self-inflicted illnesses.

People need to take some responsibility and look after themselves. Getting a pat on the head and a "Aww, don't worry, its ok to be overweight" is not alright.

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Reply #4 posted 12/23/18 9:20am

XxAxX

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opinion clarified below.

[Edited 1/6/19 9:51am]

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Reply #5 posted 12/23/18 10:41am

EmmaMcG

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DaveT said:

IMO been unhealthy through being overweight is the same as being unhealthy through being underweight, yet there doesn't seem to be the same push to tell very skinny people that its ok. We're normalising obesity just to make greedy/lazy people feel ok.

Normal/healthy weight is called that for a reason. I don't agree with telling people its ok being too fat or too skinny, not just for their own health but for the the time and resource the knock-on health issues will require from the NHS/health service. Its not fair on people that require health support for un-self-inflicted illnesses.

People need to take some responsibility and look after themselves. Getting a pat on the head and a "Aww, don't worry, its ok to be overweight" is not alright.



That's all well and good but not all fat people are fat because they're "greedy or lazy". Some people have medical or mental conditions. And seeing as it's never really possible to tell what makes a person overweight, it seems a bit unfair to paint them all with the same brush. And even more unfair to judge them all without knowing the full story.

Body positivity is not about normalising obesity. It's about letting people know that not everyone needs to look like a model to feel good about themselves. It's about preventing impressionable young girls from developing eating disorders so she can look like the pop stars she sees on TV. It's about preventing the suicides of many young people who are bullied about their weight, height, facial features, hair colour etc. It's about cutting down on the ignorant comments from people who see others as less than themselves because they are different.

Nobody is saying that it's OK to be unhealthy. Obviously, the individual who is unhealthy will know that they're unhealthy. No amount of body positivity will change that. But it's senseless and cruel to add to these people's problems by making them feel worse than they already do about their appearance.

Gentle encouragement to lose the weight by way of highlighting the health benefits of it is a much more effective way of treating these people than by simply putting it in their heads that they need to lose weight so they can look attractive.
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Reply #6 posted 12/23/18 8:51pm

happinessinits
uncutform

EmmaMcG said:

DaveT said:

IMO been unhealthy through being overweight is the same as being unhealthy through being underweight, yet there doesn't seem to be the same push to tell very skinny people that its ok. We're normalising obesity just to make greedy/lazy people feel ok.

Normal/healthy weight is called that for a reason. I don't agree with telling people its ok being too fat or too skinny, not just for their own health but for the the time and resource the knock-on health issues will require from the NHS/health service. Its not fair on people that require health support for un-self-inflicted illnesses.

People need to take some responsibility and look after themselves. Getting a pat on the head and a "Aww, don't worry, its ok to be overweight" is not alright.

That's all well and good but not all fat people are fat because they're "greedy or lazy". Some people have medical or mental conditions. And seeing as it's never really possible to tell what makes a person overweight, it seems a bit unfair to paint them all with the same brush. And even more unfair to judge them all without knowing the full story. Body positivity is not about normalising obesity. It's about letting people know that not everyone needs to look like a model to feel good about themselves. It's about preventing impressionable young girls from developing eating disorders so she can look like the pop stars she sees on TV. It's about preventing the suicides of many young people who are bullied about their weight, height, facial features, hair colour etc. It's about cutting down on the ignorant comments from people who see others as less than themselves because they are different. Nobody is saying that it's OK to be unhealthy. Obviously, the individual who is unhealthy will know that they're unhealthy. No amount of body positivity will change that. But it's senseless and cruel to add to these people's problems by making them feel worse than they already do about their appearance. Gentle encouragement to lose the weight by way of highlighting the health benefits of it is a much more effective way of treating these people than by simply putting it in their heads that they need to lose weight so they can look attractive.



"Body positivity is not about normalizing obesity" - but the very problem I have with this movement is that even if its intentions weren't rooted from that idea, it does send out that message. To be specific, I don't mind the ads that feature built/bigger people as beauty product models, and I think those can really highlight the benefits you mentioned about the movement. But it goes beyond that. I've seen ads, videos, signs that show extremely overweight people and with a written message "we're beautiful" slathered on em.

I also can't agree with the bolded part. This movement is often geared towards young girls as you implied, but a lot of obese/overweight children are either poorly educated or not aware of what their condition and lifestyle can do to their body in the long run. Especially kids? if they don't currently have any pressing problems by being overweight, they don't see the need to change their diet, and it's going to be very hard to convince them to do so if they keep considering themselves "beautiful no matter what".
Just the other day I read an article that over the last 20 years in this country, adult obesity rates have steadily increased from 30 to now 40%, and the rates keep expanding. Over 70-percent of Americans are either overweight or obese now - way outnumbering people with normal weight range. (Granted overweight doesn't always equal problem, and some can be overweight and in a good health condition but the statistics itself is very telling about our culture and lifestyle.) "Gentle encouragement" surely sounds like the ideal way of educating people, especialy children about health but I honestly feel this country is way beyond that point.

[Edited 12/23/18 21:17pm]

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Reply #7 posted 12/23/18 9:13pm

happinessinits
uncutform

onlyforaminute said:

Idk. Seems to me hating oneself doesn't stop people from leading unhealthy life styles while loving oneself as is might lead to someone taking a deeper interest in taking care of themselves. I mean in the culture there are still messages on what it takes to lead a healthier life along side the messages of self appreciation. Guess that's the problem of being in a free society people do get to choose for themselves right or wrong.

Bolded part. Beautifully put and I believe that was the whole idea behind this movement but that message isn't executed well in many of their ads. It's at a point where it's just forcing people to believe every body shape is equally beautiful and it should be considered beautiful to everyone. Why not take the "beauty" part out of it, and just say every body deserves deeper self-interest and better care?

[Edited 12/23/18 21:16pm]

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Reply #8 posted 12/23/18 11:08pm

maplenpg

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happinessinitsuncutform said:



EmmaMcG said:


DaveT said:

IMO been unhealthy through being overweight is the same as being unhealthy through being underweight, yet there doesn't seem to be the same push to tell very skinny people that its ok. We're normalising obesity just to make greedy/lazy people feel ok.

Normal/healthy weight is called that for a reason. I don't agree with telling people its ok being too fat or too skinny, not just for their own health but for the the time and resource the knock-on health issues will require from the NHS/health service. Its not fair on people that require health support for un-self-inflicted illnesses.

People need to take some responsibility and look after themselves. Getting a pat on the head and a "Aww, don't worry, its ok to be overweight" is not alright.



That's all well and good but not all fat people are fat because they're "greedy or lazy". Some people have medical or mental conditions. And seeing as it's never really possible to tell what makes a person overweight, it seems a bit unfair to paint them all with the same brush. And even more unfair to judge them all without knowing the full story. Body positivity is not about normalising obesity. It's about letting people know that not everyone needs to look like a model to feel good about themselves. It's about preventing impressionable young girls from developing eating disorders so she can look like the pop stars she sees on TV. It's about preventing the suicides of many young people who are bullied about their weight, height, facial features, hair colour etc. It's about cutting down on the ignorant comments from people who see others as less than themselves because they are different. Nobody is saying that it's OK to be unhealthy. Obviously, the individual who is unhealthy will know that they're unhealthy. No amount of body positivity will change that. But it's senseless and cruel to add to these people's problems by making them feel worse than they already do about their appearance. Gentle encouragement to lose the weight by way of highlighting the health benefits of it is a much more effective way of treating these people than by simply putting it in their heads that they need to lose weight so they can look attractive.



"Body positivity is not about normalizing obesity" - but the very problem I have with this movement is that even if its intentions weren't rooted from that idea, it does send out that message. To be specific, I don't mind the ads that feature built/bigger people as beauty product models, and I think those can really highlight the benefits you mentioned about the movement. But it goes beyond that. I've seen ads, videos, signs that show extremely overweight people and with a written message "we're beautiful" slathered on em.

I also can't agree with the bolded part. This movement is often geared towards young girls as you implied, but a lot of obese/overweight children are either poorly educated or not aware of what their condition and lifestyle can do to their body in the long run. Especially kids? if they don't currently have any pressing problems by being overweight, they don't see the need to change their diet, and it's going to be very hard to convince them to do so if they keep considering themselves "beautiful no matter what".
Just the other day I read an article that over the last 20 years in this country, adult obesity rates have steadily increased from 30 to now 40%, and the rates keep expanding. Over 70-percent of Americans are either overweight or obese now - way outnumbering people with normal weight range. (Granted overweight doesn't always equal problem, and some can be overweight and in a good health condition but the statistics itself is very telling about our culture and lifestyle.) "Gentle encouragement" surely sounds like the ideal way of educating people, especialy children about health but I honestly feel this country is way beyond that point.


[Edited 12/23/18 21:17pm]


I'm not disagreeing with you about kids, but there is the problem that younger kids can't cook for themselves, and often obese kids have obese parents. It can cause huge frictions if the child wants to be healthier and the parent is unwilling to change their own habits, or even that the kids end up confused as they get different messages from home and school. It's easier said than done for an obese child to become responsible for their own health, yet we have to educate from a young age or its too late. Personally I believe we need to place much more responsibility onto food manufacturers, but thats a whole other thread.

I totally agree with your response to Only, yet I work with people with really fucked up lives. Their diet is the last thing they care about because they don't know how to begin giving a crap about themselves.
If you're going to refer to people as 'scum' or 'garbage vomit', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #9 posted 12/26/18 7:00am

DaveT

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EmmaMcG said:

DaveT said:

IMO been unhealthy through being overweight is the same as being unhealthy through being underweight, yet there doesn't seem to be the same push to tell very skinny people that its ok. We're normalising obesity just to make greedy/lazy people feel ok.

Normal/healthy weight is called that for a reason. I don't agree with telling people its ok being too fat or too skinny, not just for their own health but for the the time and resource the knock-on health issues will require from the NHS/health service. Its not fair on people that require health support for un-self-inflicted illnesses.

People need to take some responsibility and look after themselves. Getting a pat on the head and a "Aww, don't worry, its ok to be overweight" is not alright.

That's all well and good but not all fat people are fat because they're "greedy or lazy". Some people have medical or mental conditions. And seeing as it's never really possible to tell what makes a person overweight, it seems a bit unfair to paint them all with the same brush. And even more unfair to judge them all without knowing the full story. Body positivity is not about normalising obesity. It's about letting people know that not everyone needs to look like a model to feel good about themselves. It's about preventing impressionable young girls from developing eating disorders so she can look like the pop stars she sees on TV. It's about preventing the suicides of many young people who are bullied about their weight, height, facial features, hair colour etc. It's about cutting down on the ignorant comments from people who see others as less than themselves because they are different. Nobody is saying that it's OK to be unhealthy. Obviously, the individual who is unhealthy will know that they're unhealthy. No amount of body positivity will change that. But it's senseless and cruel to add to these people's problems by making them feel worse than they already do about their appearance. Gentle encouragement to lose the weight by way of highlighting the health benefits of it is a much more effective way of treating these people than by simply putting it in their heads that they need to lose weight so they can look attractive.


That accounts for a very small percentage of the people that are overweight and obese. My sister is a GP and says of all the people she sees with weight issues about 5% or less the weight gain comes down to an underlying medical condition (mental or physical); the rest its due to poor diet, inactivity, or both.

And we've been trying the gentle encouragement approach for years, highlighting the health benefits of weight loss, etc ... the fact that there's an obesity epidemic in the UK proves it doesn't work. Unless someone is an absolute idiot they must know that its healthier to be the right weight than it is to be under or over weight, but some still choose to ignore the problem despite the knock on effects on their body, the impact resulting health issues will have on those loved ones around them, and the NHS resources needed to treat them.

There are more overweight people in this country now than there's ever been. A tougher approach is needed, like they've done with smoking, increasing tax on tobacco products making them more expensive, banning tobacco advertising, putting pictures on packets showing the truth of what smoking does to the body. We need to start doing this with unhealthy foods. Our NHS is already under tremendous strain; it won't cope if the current trend continues.

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Reply #10 posted 12/26/18 7:34am

EmmaMcG

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DaveT said:



EmmaMcG said:


DaveT said:

IMO been unhealthy through being overweight is the same as being unhealthy through being underweight, yet there doesn't seem to be the same push to tell very skinny people that its ok. We're normalising obesity just to make greedy/lazy people feel ok.

Normal/healthy weight is called that for a reason. I don't agree with telling people its ok being too fat or too skinny, not just for their own health but for the the time and resource the knock-on health issues will require from the NHS/health service. Its not fair on people that require health support for un-self-inflicted illnesses.

People need to take some responsibility and look after themselves. Getting a pat on the head and a "Aww, don't worry, its ok to be overweight" is not alright.



That's all well and good but not all fat people are fat because they're "greedy or lazy". Some people have medical or mental conditions. And seeing as it's never really possible to tell what makes a person overweight, it seems a bit unfair to paint them all with the same brush. And even more unfair to judge them all without knowing the full story. Body positivity is not about normalising obesity. It's about letting people know that not everyone needs to look like a model to feel good about themselves. It's about preventing impressionable young girls from developing eating disorders so she can look like the pop stars she sees on TV. It's about preventing the suicides of many young people who are bullied about their weight, height, facial features, hair colour etc. It's about cutting down on the ignorant comments from people who see others as less than themselves because they are different. Nobody is saying that it's OK to be unhealthy. Obviously, the individual who is unhealthy will know that they're unhealthy. No amount of body positivity will change that. But it's senseless and cruel to add to these people's problems by making them feel worse than they already do about their appearance. Gentle encouragement to lose the weight by way of highlighting the health benefits of it is a much more effective way of treating these people than by simply putting it in their heads that they need to lose weight so they can look attractive.


That accounts for a very small percentage of the people that are overweight and obese. My sister is a GP and says of all the people she sees with weight issues about 5% or less the weight gain comes down to an underlying medical condition (mental or physical); the rest its due to poor diet, inactivity, or both.

And we've been trying the gentle encouragement approach for years, highlighting the health benefits of weight loss, etc ... the fact that there's an obesity epidemic in the UK proves it doesn't work. Unless someone is an absolute idiot they must know that its healthier to be the right weight than it is to be under or over weight, but some still choose to ignore the problem despite the knock on effects on their body, the impact resulting health issues will have on those loved ones around them, and the NHS resources needed to treat them.

There are more overweight people in this country now than there's ever been. A tougher approach is needed, like they've done with smoking, increasing tax on tobacco products making them more expensive, banning tobacco advertising, putting pictures on packets showing the truth of what smoking does to the body. We need to start doing this with unhealthy foods. Our NHS is already under tremendous strain; it won't cope if the current trend continues.



I don't like the idea of higher taxes and prices on unhealthy foods. I'm not overweight and I never have been. So why should I have to pay more for sweets and stuff?

There's obviously no easy answer to it but I think there can be more done in schools. More time spent on health education in primary school and double the P.E. classes in secondary school.
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Reply #11 posted 12/26/18 10:53am

DaveT

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EmmaMcG said:

DaveT said:


That accounts for a very small percentage of the people that are overweight and obese. My sister is a GP and says of all the people she sees with weight issues about 5% or less the weight gain comes down to an underlying medical condition (mental or physical); the rest its due to poor diet, inactivity, or both.

And we've been trying the gentle encouragement approach for years, highlighting the health benefits of weight loss, etc ... the fact that there's an obesity epidemic in the UK proves it doesn't work. Unless someone is an absolute idiot they must know that its healthier to be the right weight than it is to be under or over weight, but some still choose to ignore the problem despite the knock on effects on their body, the impact resulting health issues will have on those loved ones around them, and the NHS resources needed to treat them.

There are more overweight people in this country now than there's ever been. A tougher approach is needed, like they've done with smoking, increasing tax on tobacco products making them more expensive, banning tobacco advertising, putting pictures on packets showing the truth of what smoking does to the body. We need to start doing this with unhealthy foods. Our NHS is already under tremendous strain; it won't cope if the current trend continues.

I don't like the idea of higher taxes and prices on unhealthy foods. I'm not overweight and I never have been. So why should I have to pay more for sweets and stuff? There's obviously no easy answer to it but I think there can be more done in schools. More time spent on health education in primary school and double the P.E. classes in secondary school.


True, but we'll end up paying for it another way if they have to bring in private health care because the NHS is crippled ... or, god forbid, one of us needs NHS treatment for something else but we're slow to get it because the service is clogged up with those fallen ill with weight related problems.

PE in schools could be done better. It was the highlight of our week at secondary school (an all boys school) but my wife says everyone in her year (an all girls school) hated it ... the thought of getting sweaty, showering, etc filled her with dread and she did anything to get out of it, as did most of her friends.

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Reply #12 posted 12/26/18 11:14am

onlyforaminute

I was thinking about this thread while watching The Greatest Showman during the song This is Me. And was wondering is this due to the popularity of the song since the person singing it is an obese lady even though the song itself was encompassing all types of people beyond the obese, accepting themselves.

Year of Return 2019
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Reply #13 posted 12/26/18 11:25pm

maplenpg

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DaveT said:



EmmaMcG said:


DaveT said:



That accounts for a very small percentage of the people that are overweight and obese. My sister is a GP and says of all the people she sees with weight issues about 5% or less the weight gain comes down to an underlying medical condition (mental or physical); the rest its due to poor diet, inactivity, or both.

And we've been trying the gentle encouragement approach for years, highlighting the health benefits of weight loss, etc ... the fact that there's an obesity epidemic in the UK proves it doesn't work. Unless someone is an absolute idiot they must know that its healthier to be the right weight than it is to be under or over weight, but some still choose to ignore the problem despite the knock on effects on their body, the impact resulting health issues will have on those loved ones around them, and the NHS resources needed to treat them.

There are more overweight people in this country now than there's ever been. A tougher approach is needed, like they've done with smoking, increasing tax on tobacco products making them more expensive, banning tobacco advertising, putting pictures on packets showing the truth of what smoking does to the body. We need to start doing this with unhealthy foods. Our NHS is already under tremendous strain; it won't cope if the current trend continues.



I don't like the idea of higher taxes and prices on unhealthy foods. I'm not overweight and I never have been. So why should I have to pay more for sweets and stuff? There's obviously no easy answer to it but I think there can be more done in schools. More time spent on health education in primary school and double the P.E. classes in secondary school.


True, but we'll end up paying for it another way if they have to bring in private health care because the NHS is crippled ... or, god forbid, one of us needs NHS treatment for something else but we're slow to get it because the service is clogged up with those fallen ill with weight related problems.

PE in schools could be done better. It was the highlight of our week at secondary school (an all boys school) but my wife says everyone in her year (an all girls school) hated it ... the thought of getting sweaty, showering, etc filled her with dread and she did anything to get out of it, as did most of her friends.


With regard schools, I was a secondary teacher until Christmas last year and broadly I think Dave is right, boys loved it, girls hated it. The problem is that adding more PE to the curriculum means less time on core subjects and more than ever before schools are grades focused. I personally hated that gcse years were encouraged to attend lunchtime sessions for core subjects, which took away their time to run around.

Regarding taxes, I'd prefer to see business tax completely change. Certainly the high streets I visit are filling up with pizza shops, cake shops and fast food outlets. The greengrocers are often nowhere to be seen. I see business rates as being a way to redress the balance and encourage businesses who make less profit (pretty much anything other than fast food) back. Also most pizza shops offer fizzy drinks, chips and ice-cream or cookies - why not encourage free salad or free fruit? Sadly everything nowadays is driven by profit and foods with a limited shelf life are ignored. We need some way of encouraging retailers to encourage salad as a side rather than fries.

No doubt things will get worse though. The truth is there is much profit in fast food and sugar and capitalism doesn't really want us eating like our grandparents or great grandparents did. We really don't even need supermarkets, we just need to realise that our bodies have simple needs to be healthy. Sadly I think too many (probably including me) are too addicted to sugar and fat, and so even though we know what's good for us, we don't necessarily choose it.
If you're going to refer to people as 'scum' or 'garbage vomit', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #14 posted 12/27/18 1:17am

DaveT

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maplenpg said:

DaveT said:


True, but we'll end up paying for it another way if they have to bring in private health care because the NHS is crippled ... or, god forbid, one of us needs NHS treatment for something else but we're slow to get it because the service is clogged up with those fallen ill with weight related problems.

PE in schools could be done better. It was the highlight of our week at secondary school (an all boys school) but my wife says everyone in her year (an all girls school) hated it ... the thought of getting sweaty, showering, etc filled her with dread and she did anything to get out of it, as did most of her friends.

With regard schools, I was a secondary teacher until Christmas last year and broadly I think Dave is right, boys loved it, girls hated it. The problem is that adding more PE to the curriculum means less time on core subjects and more than ever before schools are grades focused. I personally hated that gcse years were encouraged to attend lunchtime sessions for core subjects, which took away their time to run around. Regarding taxes, I'd prefer to see business tax completely change. Certainly the high streets I visit are filling up with pizza shops, cake shops and fast food outlets. The greengrocers are often nowhere to be seen. I see business rates as being a way to redress the balance and encourage businesses who make less profit (pretty much anything other than fast food) back. Also most pizza shops offer fizzy drinks, chips and ice-cream or cookies - why not encourage free salad or free fruit? Sadly everything nowadays is driven by profit and foods with a limited shelf life are ignored. We need some way of encouraging retailers to encourage salad as a side rather than fries. No doubt things will get worse though. The truth is there is much profit in fast food and sugar and capitalism doesn't really want us eating like our grandparents or great grandparents did. We really don't even need supermarkets, we just need to realise that our bodies have simple needs to be healthy. Sadly I think too many (probably including me) are too addicted to sugar and fat, and so even though we know what's good for us, we don't necessarily choose it.


Some really good suggestions here.

We use to have four or five really fruit and veg shops on our high street, but now there's none. The fast food joints seem to be breeding like rats though. And a particular new fad down our end of the country seems to be these sickly looking dessert only places with names like Creams, where it appears to be quantity over quality. Fortunately, I don't have much of a 'sweet tooth' ... stick a bowl of Doritos in front of me though and that's another issue! biggrin

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Reply #15 posted 12/27/18 8:52am

maplenpg

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DaveT said:

maplenpg said:

DaveT said: With regard schools, I was a secondary teacher until Christmas last year and broadly I think Dave is right, boys loved it, girls hated it. The problem is that adding more PE to the curriculum means less time on core subjects and more than ever before schools are grades focused. I personally hated that gcse years were encouraged to attend lunchtime sessions for core subjects, which took away their time to run around. Regarding taxes, I'd prefer to see business tax completely change. Certainly the high streets I visit are filling up with pizza shops, cake shops and fast food outlets. The greengrocers are often nowhere to be seen. I see business rates as being a way to redress the balance and encourage businesses who make less profit (pretty much anything other than fast food) back. Also most pizza shops offer fizzy drinks, chips and ice-cream or cookies - why not encourage free salad or free fruit? Sadly everything nowadays is driven by profit and foods with a limited shelf life are ignored. We need some way of encouraging retailers to encourage salad as a side rather than fries. No doubt things will get worse though. The truth is there is much profit in fast food and sugar and capitalism doesn't really want us eating like our grandparents or great grandparents did. We really don't even need supermarkets, we just need to realise that our bodies have simple needs to be healthy. Sadly I think too many (probably including me) are too addicted to sugar and fat, and so even though we know what's good for us, we don't necessarily choose it.


Some really good suggestions here.

We use to have four or five really fruit and veg shops on our high street, but now there's none. The fast food joints seem to be breeding like rats though. And a particular new fad down our end of the country seems to be these sickly looking dessert only places with names like Creams, where it appears to be quantity over quality. Fortunately, I don't have much of a 'sweet tooth' ... stick a bowl of Doritos in front of me though and that's another issue! biggrin

I've seen the dessert places, though I don't have one near me....it'd be lethal if I did. I consider myself quite lucky in that my tiny town in Yorkshire has a greengrocer that has won best UK greengrocer for two years running. I do wonder why their model works in my local town and not elsewhere. In my parents much bigger and busier town there are no greengrocers at all. I really do find that sad.

Ultimately, the only way to create long-term better eating habits is to get people eating much more fruit and veg than they do now. That means fruit and veg being given much more space and focus, especially in fast food outlets and places such as petrol stations. I know that places like McDonalds sell carrot sticks etc..., but I doubt the people choosing them over fries is high - the question is how do we turn that around? We cannot just carry on fat-shaming, it doesn't work. We need to somehow try to reduce our desire for sugar and fat, and I think that is a much harder nut to crack than just adding a bit of tax on. I should add that I think slimming clubs could do much much more to help people cut down rather than also being big corporate machines with their own faults.

Finally, I think it's about responsibility and that lies with us as individuals, as parents, as businesses, as councils and as government - it's a great pity some of those don't seem to think it's their responsibility at all.


If you're going to refer to people as 'scum' or 'garbage vomit', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #16 posted 12/27/18 11:43am

PliablyPurple

I prefer Food Positivity or something along those lines. Body Positivity seems too divisive, and, as evidenced by this thread, feeds (thank you) the notion of overweight v/s skinny as a means of achieving a healthy lifestyle. Skinny or normal weight people who shovel shit into their pie holes and then think "all good over here, I'm not fat" are a part of the problem. Skinny people who eat like shit still end up in the dr.s office and leave with meds in their pockets because, gasp, they too suffer from fatty liver and heart, high blood pressure, high blood sugar, high cholesterol...

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Reply #17 posted 12/27/18 3:27pm

LadyLayla

avatar

maplenpg said:

DaveT said:


Some really good suggestions here.

We use to have four or five really fruit and veg shops on our high street, but now there's none. The fast food joints seem to be breeding like rats though. And a particular new fad down our end of the country seems to be these sickly looking dessert only places with names like Creams, where it appears to be quantity over quality. Fortunately, I don't have much of a 'sweet tooth' ... stick a bowl of Doritos in front of me though and that's another issue! biggrin

I've seen the dessert places, though I don't have one near me....it'd be lethal if I did. I consider myself quite lucky in that my tiny town in Yorkshire has a greengrocer that has won best UK greengrocer for two years running. I do wonder why their model works in my local town and not elsewhere. In my parents much bigger and busier town there are no greengrocers at all. I really do find that sad.

Ultimately, the only way to create long-term better eating habits is to get people eating much more fruit and veg than they do now. That means fruit and veg being given much more space and focus, especially in fast food outlets and places such as petrol stations. I know that places like McDonalds sell carrot sticks etc..., but I doubt the people choosing them over fries is high - the question is how do we turn that around? We cannot just carry on fat-shaming, it doesn't work. We need to somehow try to reduce our desire for sugar and fat, and I think that is a much harder nut to crack than just adding a bit of tax on. I should add that I think slimming clubs could do much much more to help people cut down rather than also being big corporate machines with their own faults.

Finally, I think it's about responsibility and that lies with us as individuals, as parents, as businesses, as councils and as government - it's a great pity some of those don't seem to think it's their responsibility at all.


For the US I would say cut down on subsidies for milk, corn, wheat, etc... and build up subsidies on fruit and veggies. Jeez, I loved kale before it became "a thing". But here in the good ole US of A it is about the almighty dollar. It's cheaper to eat at fast food places than it is to cook at home.

____________________________________________________________________________

If you've ever watched "My 600lb life" you'll know food to them is like drug to an addict. And it's never the food or the drug. It's getting at what is going on inside the person.

Style is the second cousin to class
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Reply #18 posted 12/28/18 1:23am

DaveT

avatar

maplenpg said:

DaveT said:


Some really good suggestions here.

We use to have four or five really fruit and veg shops on our high street, but now there's none. The fast food joints seem to be breeding like rats though. And a particular new fad down our end of the country seems to be these sickly looking dessert only places with names like Creams, where it appears to be quantity over quality. Fortunately, I don't have much of a 'sweet tooth' ... stick a bowl of Doritos in front of me though and that's another issue! biggrin

I've seen the dessert places, though I don't have one near me....it'd be lethal if I did. I consider myself quite lucky in that my tiny town in Yorkshire has a greengrocer that has won best UK greengrocer for two years running. I do wonder why their model works in my local town and not elsewhere. In my parents much bigger and busier town there are no greengrocers at all. I really do find that sad.

Ultimately, the only way to create long-term better eating habits is to get people eating much more fruit and veg than they do now. That means fruit and veg being given much more space and focus, especially in fast food outlets and places such as petrol stations. I know that places like McDonalds sell carrot sticks etc..., but I doubt the people choosing them over fries is high - the question is how do we turn that around? We cannot just carry on fat-shaming, it doesn't work. We need to somehow try to reduce our desire for sugar and fat, and I think that is a much harder nut to crack than just adding a bit of tax on. I should add that I think slimming clubs could do much much more to help people cut down rather than also being big corporate machines with their own faults.

Finally, I think it's about responsibility and that lies with us as individuals, as parents, as businesses, as councils and as government - it's a great pity some of those don't seem to think it's their responsibility at all.



I've often wondered if McDonald's actually have those carrot sticks in stock ... I've never seen anyone eating them. If I ever venture back in to a MaccyDs I might ask for them, see what they say biggrin

My missus has tried a couple of the slimming clubs over the years and hasn't been impressed. They over complicate the process just to sell their wares ... trackers, diaries, colour coded cards and other tat ... and in all the meetings she sat through they never once discussed exercise. As you said, they seem more like businesses than genuine support networks. My wife said it was also 90% women and they nearly all had shallow reasons for wanting to lose weight, like a wedding coming up and wanting to impress their friends by looking good, or a holiday coming up and wanting to look good in a bikini. I guess whatever motivation gets you healthy, but most people seem to be missing the point, the long term health benefits.

You're right about personal responsibility, especially parents ... common sense there seems to be lacking these days. Don't expect much help from local Councils either. I've had the 'pleasure' or working for one and they exist purely to keep the local Councillors happy and re-elected; whatever they want gets done. Sadly anything a Council's Public Health Team does will be a token gesture only.

www.filmsfilmsfilms.co.uk - The internet's best movie site!
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Reply #19 posted 01/01/19 1:21pm

wouldntulove2l
oveme

LadyLayla said:

maplenpg said:

I've seen the dessert places, though I don't have one near me....it'd be lethal if I did. I consider myself quite lucky in that my tiny town in Yorkshire has a greengrocer that has won best UK greengrocer for two years running. I do wonder why their model works in my local town and not elsewhere. In my parents much bigger and busier town there are no greengrocers at all. I really do find that sad.

Ultimately, the only way to create long-term better eating habits is to get people eating much more fruit and veg than they do now. That means fruit and veg being given much more space and focus, especially in fast food outlets and places such as petrol stations. I know that places like McDonalds sell carrot sticks etc..., but I doubt the people choosing them over fries is high - the question is how do we turn that around? We cannot just carry on fat-shaming, it doesn't work. We need to somehow try to reduce our desire for sugar and fat, and I think that is a much harder nut to crack than just adding a bit of tax on. I should add that I think slimming clubs could do much much more to help people cut down rather than also being big corporate machines with their own faults.

Finally, I think it's about responsibility and that lies with us as individuals, as parents, as businesses, as councils and as government - it's a great pity some of those don't seem to think it's their responsibility at all.


For the US I would say cut down on subsidies for milk, corn, wheat, etc... and build up subsidies on fruit and veggies. Jeez, I loved kale before it became "a thing". But here in the good ole US of A it is about the almighty dollar. It's cheaper to eat at fast food places than it is to cook at home.

____________________________________________________________________________

If you've ever watched "My 600lb life" you'll know food to them is like drug to an addict. And it's never the food or the drug. It's getting at what is going on inside the person.

Agreed, and I think this is the biggest tragedy, at least here in the United States. If I was a person on a fixed income and only had a $1 in my pocket to feed myself and my child for the day - I could go to the store and by 10 packs of ramen noodles and get by. But that same $1 wouldn't even buy a single apple at $2.99 a pound ...

If a man is considered guilty
For what goes on in his mind
Then give me the electric chair
For all my future crimes"
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Reply #20 posted 01/04/19 5:16am

DaveT

avatar

wouldntulove2loveme said:

LadyLayla said:

For the US I would say cut down on subsidies for milk, corn, wheat, etc... and build up subsidies on fruit and veggies. Jeez, I loved kale before it became "a thing". But here in the good ole US of A it is about the almighty dollar. It's cheaper to eat at fast food places than it is to cook at home.

____________________________________________________________________________

If you've ever watched "My 600lb life" you'll know food to them is like drug to an addict. And it's never the food or the drug. It's getting at what is going on inside the person.

Agreed, and I think this is the biggest tragedy, at least here in the United States. If I was a person on a fixed income and only had a $1 in my pocket to feed myself and my child for the day - I could go to the store and by 10 packs of ramen noodles and get by. But that same $1 wouldn't even buy a single apple at $2.99 a pound ...


To be fair that's a bit of an issue in the UK to. If I had limited income and I needed to feed my family, you almost have to go for quantity over quality most of the time ... its cheaper to stock up on Tesco Value chicken nuggets than it is to buy healthier stuff that doesn't last as long in the fridge.

I'm lucky to be able to afford a decent diet, but when I go in to the likes of Holland & Barrett to stock up on nuts, berries, seeds and the like its quite shocking how much it costs.

www.filmsfilmsfilms.co.uk - The internet's best movie site!
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Reply #21 posted 01/04/19 7:21pm

onlyforaminute

Ha, look what I found on the NYPL website. So is this the stuff the OP is talking about???



https://www.nypl.org/blog...SocialFlow



dumplin



earth

staying fat


things

every body

Year of Return 2019
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Reply #22 posted 01/04/19 8:06pm

KatSkrizzle

avatar

First, body positivity so that people no longer hate their body, and feel less ashamed, and go to the gym?

And that is shared here....OK

Body positivity to enjoy the process of change and enjoy fitness without judgement? Again, I guess not.

Body positivity - A female olympic speed skater's body is used as the basis for plus sized mannequins....she's unhealthy though.....

Nice...seems your disgust hides behind the guise of health....just say it, you don't like fat bodies,it's OK.

Body Positivity....shame bodies that are living the "fit has no size" life. So while they train for athletic events, compete, and instruct, the size-ism is still too strong in some of you.

Thin bodies are not judged as harshly as overweight ones. You feel that since it's visible,you already know someone's state of health. What if the body you see at 280 was once 350? But, that is still a drian on society.

Just come out and say it's not for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH3AitreHtE

http://www.teamemre.com/

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/05/health/turning-points-mirna-valerio/index.html

[Edited 1/4/19 20:07pm]

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Reply #23 posted 01/05/19 12:05am

maplenpg

avatar

DaveT said:

wouldntulove2loveme said:

Agreed, and I think this is the biggest tragedy, at least here in the United States. If I was a person on a fixed income and only had a $1 in my pocket to feed myself and my child for the day - I could go to the store and by 10 packs of ramen noodles and get by. But that same $1 wouldn't even buy a single apple at $2.99 a pound ...


To be fair that's a bit of an issue in the UK to. If I had limited income and I needed to feed my family, you almost have to go for quantity over quality most of the time ... its cheaper to stock up on Tesco Value chicken nuggets than it is to buy healthier stuff that doesn't last as long in the fridge.

I'm lucky to be able to afford a decent diet, but when I go in to the likes of Holland & Barrett to stock up on nuts, berries, seeds and the like its quite shocking how much it costs.

I've been pondering on this - I certainly agree that mostly it's cheaper to buy dried, frozen or tinned over fresh, but I do think that it's possible for the very poor to have a better diet than dried noodles or frozen chicken nuggets. A British girl called Jack Monroe has been a constant campaigner on poverty issues and is the only cookbook author and online recipe blogger I know that costs everything out. She hit the headlines a few years ago with her 9p burger. So I do wonder, especially if you are able to freeze batches of homemade soup/curry etc..., whether the cheaper argument is a valid one. I remain to be swayed completely one way or the other.

I used to work in Holland & Barrett years ago. If you shop there regularly I would very much recommend joining either The Vegetarian Society or the Vegan Society (even if you are neither) - you then get 10% off your bill every time you shop and you can easily save more than the £2 a month (I think) cost of joining. Alternatively find a local, independant health food shop who I guarantee will be cheaper still.


My husband is self-employed and so we always say that it's feast or famine for us, nonetheless I do try to ensure we all eat reasonably well (we're certainly not perfect) whether we have a lot or a little. I have been doing Veganuary for 5 days now and I have to say that the branded Vegan stuff is ridiculously expensive, almost expoitative of the current trend towards it.

If you're going to refer to people as 'scum' or 'garbage vomit', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #24 posted 01/05/19 12:07am

maplenpg

avatar

onlyforaminute said:

Ha, look what I found on the NYPL website. So is this the stuff the OP is talking about???



https://www.nypl.org/blog...SocialFlow



dumplin



earth

staying fat


things

every body

I don't know about the others but I own the last book - every body yoga, and it is excellent. I certainly wouldn't knock anything that enables people who are afraid to join a yoga class (that they might assume will be full of young, skinny, scantily clad lovelies) to have a go at home.

If you're going to refer to people as 'scum' or 'garbage vomit', at least have a reason to do so.
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Reply #25 posted 01/06/19 8:41am

XxAxX

avatar

lol we know how piers morgan feels about this!!!



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Reply #26 posted 01/06/19 9:11am

XxAxX

avatar

in my family i have a number of relatives who struggle with obesity and/or anorexia so i am generally supportive of the 'body positivity' movement. i want them to become healthy and not to engage in self-destructive behaviors one way or another, either by gorging themselves on food or starving themselves.

for me *personally* - i feel a bit claustrophobic on airplanes, movie theaters, etc. and dislike being forced into physical contact with strangers so it really bothers me to be seated next to an obese person on the plane.

this is an instance in which a perfect stranger's health choices have an effect on me and i do have an opinion about it as is my right in such a situation. this is also just about the only time i will ever have an opinion on someone else's health choice with respect to the size of their body.

to the extent that the health choices of other people do not affect me personally i don't feel like lecturing them one way or another, nor do i feel that i need to make them see things my way. i've adopted a 'live and let live' approach to these situations. we all have challenges to face in life.

IF they ask me i will tell them how i feel and that i care about their health. IF they ask me i will give them advice. but only IF. in my opinion, normalizing obesity or anorexia is not ideal. but this is only my opinion.

i wish those who are struggling with weight issues a healthy transition to their best happy self and self-image. if that means they are obese and happy with it, or super thin and happy with it - fine on them and hopefully they are fit and healthy. in general it would be super if society could judge folks by who they are rather than by how they look.

disclaimer: this is a very complicated issue and it is hard to discuss fully on a message board such as this. we all have opinions and we are all entitled not only to hold differing opinions but to freely air them here as long as we comply with the rules of this forum.

hopefully no-one here has the impression that i hate obese/anorexic people and hopefully no one will become angry and judge this post - and by extension me - because my opinion is not in line with their own...



there. that only took ten eleven twelve edits~!! lol lol lol falloff

[Edited 1/6/19 9:51am]

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Reply #27 posted 01/06/19 10:15am

DaveT

avatar

XxAxX said:

lol we know how piers morgan feels about this!!!




Piers Morgan is an absolute sh*t stain of a human being ... but I have to agree with him there.

www.filmsfilmsfilms.co.uk - The internet's best movie site!
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Reply #28 posted 01/06/19 10:43am

onlyforaminute

They tried to make me go to rehab, but I said "no, no, no"
Yes, I've been black, but when I come back, you'll know, know, know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab, but I won't go, go, go


I find it fascinating how some forms of self destruction are embraced and applauded as personal choice, almost worshipped. While others are rejected dressed up as concern for individual health. People are funny.
Year of Return 2019
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Reply #29 posted 01/06/19 5:13pm

SpamelaAnusorn

avatar

KatSkrizzle said:

First, body positivity so that people no longer hate their body, and feel less ashamed, and go to the gym?

And that is shared here....OK

Body positivity to enjoy the process of change and enjoy fitness without judgement? Again, I guess not.

Body positivity - A female olympic speed skater's body is used as the basis for plus sized mannequins....she's unhealthy though.....

Nice...seems your disgust hides behind the guise of health....just say it, you don't like fat bodies,it's OK.

Body Positivity....shame bodies that are living the "fit has no size" life. So while they train for athletic events, compete, and instruct, the size-ism is still too strong in some of you.

Thin bodies are not judged as harshly as overweight ones. You feel that since it's visible,you already know someone's state of health. What if the body you see at 280 was once 350? But, that is still a drian on society.

Just come out and say it's not for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH3AitreHtE

http://www.teamemre.com/

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/05/health/turning-points-mirna-valerio/index.html

[Edited 1/4/19 20:07pm]

heart

[Edited 1/6/19 17:14pm]

I like it when u DANCE 4 MEN!! Hallerlujah
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