Despicable. They knew what the job pays and if it is too little do something else or move. But to walk out and harm the kids? That is sad.

When I was in junior high in Oklahoma City, at the end of the 70s, there was a teacher's strike. It was huge. I forget if it was just our whole city or the whole state. But we had substitute teachers for the first few months of the school season. It was just before Halloween that we finally met our teachers for the year. I think I was in 7th grade, so I sorta knew some folks already, but not everyone. There may have been some teachers who did not cross the picket line. I forget (it was a long damn time ago). Many teachers later put their picket signs (some mass printed w/ the same message, some personalized) in their classrooms. There was nothing the principal or higher admin could do about it. They sure weren't going to fire anyone for that.

Oklahoma is not a bad state. It's conservative, but the LGBTQ rights in that state are far and above what I ever thought they would be at this point. (That's just an example, not the point of the post, I know.) Tech is good there, the cost of living is inexpensive. Dell, Verizon, Sprint, oil and telecommunication industries have call centers, distribution and manufacturing facilities there. It's calm and quiet, but close enough to places like Dallas and Kansas City or St. Louis to travel for other events. OKC and Tulsa are not podunk towns, but they are the two biggest cities in the state. There is a lot of farmland so you will find a lot of plains that the wind is sweeping down.

All that said, teachers there struggle more than most other places, as evidenced by this strike. I'm glad they're doing it. The outgoing governor and mayor are both bigoted, homophobic cunts. (One or both were caught on tape talking about how sick gays were, and also making derogatory statements about minorities.) The governor signed some pay raise bill, but I don't know the status of that today.

They have rebuild schools from scratch in the last few years. Even my high school was torn down and rebuilt from the ground up on the same property, just a few short years ago. There is no reason whatsoever that teachers there should be paid so little.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Despicable. They knew what the job pays and if it is too little do something else or move. But to walk out and harm the kids? That is sad.

No one is harming the kids. Not everyone can afford to move. If they made enough to move, they'd not be striking in the first place. There are substitute teachers that are called in. It's not like the kids are just pooled into the gymnasium for six hours until the end of the day.

The local government that doesn't care about teachers is what's sad. You can't blame the victims of low pay and politics. You stand with them.

TrivialPursuit said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Despicable. They knew what the job pays and if it is too little do something else or move. But to walk out and harm the kids? That is sad.

No one is harming the kids. Not everyone can afford to move. If they made enough to move, they'd not be striking in the first place. There are substitute teachers that are called in. It's not like the kids are just pooled into the gymnasium for six hours until the end of the day.

The local government that doesn't care about teachers is what's sad. You can't blame the victims of low pay and politics. You stand with them.

but they knew or should have known what it paid. They took the job and now they want more.


and do you think there are 40K subs statewide that will actually go in and teach?

the fact that you mentioned being pooling in the gym tells me you know that is what will happen to some extent.

But I think it hurts the kids.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

TrivialPursuit said:

No one is harming the kids. Not everyone can afford to move. If they made enough to move, they'd not be striking in the first place. There are substitute teachers that are called in. It's not like the kids are just pooled into the gymnasium for six hours until the end of the day.

The local government that doesn't care about teachers is what's sad. You can't blame the victims of low pay and politics. You stand with them.

but they knew or should have known what it paid. They took the job and now they want more.


and do you think there are 40K subs statewide that will actually go in and teach?

the fact that you mentioned being pooling in the gym tells me you know that is what will happen to some extent.

But I think it hurts the kids.

Yes, there are that many subs available. I even had friends from high school that subbed in their 20s for side work.

We were never pooled into a gym, nor will these kids. Oklahoma teachers are the lowest paid in the United States. You're fucking right they want more. They deserve it.

TrivialPursuit said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

but they knew or should have known what it paid. They took the job and now they want more.


and do you think there are 40K subs statewide that will actually go in and teach?

the fact that you mentioned being pooling in the gym tells me you know that is what will happen to some extent.

But I think it hurts the kids.

Yes, there are that many subs available. I even had friends from high school that subbed in their 20s for side work.

We were never pooled into a gym, nor will these kids. Oklahoma teachers are the lowest paid in the United States. You're fucking right they want more. They deserve it.

being the lowest paid is a nonsense argument to make and not at all a basis for a raise. that is foolish talk... do better.

Do you believe there are 40K unemployed bachelor degree holders willing to be a sub in OK?


and do you believe that the quality of teaching will be even 75% of what it would be if the regular teachers were there?

Pay them now dammit.

2freaky4church1 said:

Pay them now dammit.

ok how much?

they get between $20 and $30 an hour that is not bad. That is about $60K corrected for days worked.

Then be a teacher. Ahh, no, please don't ever do that. haha

2freaky4church1 said:

Then be a teacher. Ahh, no, please don't ever do that. haha

not for $35 or even $45K $50K we can talk

Contradictions abound.

They know what the job pays. hehe.

2freaky4church1 said:

Contradictions abound.

not by me...

OnlyNDaUsa said:

TrivialPursuit said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Despicable. They knew what the job pays and if it is too little do something else or move. But to walk out and harm the kids? That is sad.

No one is harming the kids. Not everyone can afford to move. If they made enough to move, they'd not be striking in the first place. There are substitute teachers that are called in. It's not like the kids are just pooled into the gymnasium for six hours until the end of the day.

The local government that doesn't care about teachers is what's sad. You can't blame the victims of low pay and politics. You stand with them.

You don't think teacher strikes harm kids? Really? Strikes hurt families TERRIBLY.

They call in substitute teachers? I bet you anything they don't. The teacher unions would be out there picketing and screaming "scab" at anyone who would cross the picket lines - just like in every other union fight.

What happens when kids aren't in school - where they're supposed to be for approximately 180 days a year (depending on the state and school district)? Parents have to take care of them - or arrange alternative care during the day. Who do you think this hurts the most? Poor families - who have fewer resources for arranging alternative care for their kids during a strike. Those parents have to give up work and lose pay (maybe lose their job entirely), pay for someone to watch the kids (which they can ill afford), or let their kids run wild. Some choice.

School years are set by state statute. That means that if the kids aren't in school now, they're going to have to be in school during the summer. That means families can't plan for vacations, kids who are old enough can't arrange summer jobs (and will lose pay), or engage in other activities.

I don't know the issues in Oklahoma and will refrain from commenting on that strike, specifically. But it's just ridiculous to think that no one is harmed when teachers strike.

Edited to note: I was a sophomore in high school when the teachers in the district where I lived went on a two-week strike in January of 1976. In addition, I was a sophomore in college when the teaching assistants at the college I attended went on strike in the spring of 1980. I have been hurt personally by two strikes by teachers. (In one case, nearly flunking out because I was enrolled in a very difficult 5-credit class that I couldn't pass when the discussion sections - taught by TAs - were cancelled and the TA I had hired as a tutor also quit in that respect.) I know what I'm talking about.

[Edited 4/2/18 12:12pm]

maplenpg said:

Genesia said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

endymion said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Despicable. They knew what the job pays and if it is too little do something else or move. But to walk out and harm the kids? That is sad.

Really! Everything is that simple and clear cut?

Mostly. but I will say I guess walking out on the kids is in keeping with my list of 3 (and only 3) options for any dispute.

1) suck it up

2) lobby for change

3) leave...

and they already got a $500 a month raise. that is a start... not the $900 they wanted. I would love a 25 to 30% raise too!

endymion said:

maplenpg said:

You obviously have no clue about the pressures currently put on teachers worldwide. I left teaching at Christmas for a lower paid job. Trust me,they would have to pay triple my old wage for me to return, and I was bloody good at my job, loved it too if it wasn't for all the crap that teachers do outside the classroom. Walking out does not harm the kids and teachers do not take decisions to strike lightly. I'm with them.

I'm a UK teacher. I totally get why you quit

OnlyNDaUsa said:

maplenpg said:

endymion said:

I'm a UK teacher. I totally get why you quit

Thank you. I'm in the UK too. It's hard to understand if you're not in teaching I think.

endymion said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Mostly. but I will say I guess walking out on the kids is in keeping with my list of 3 (and only 3) options for any dispute.

1) suck it up

2) lobby for change

3) leave...

and they already got a $500 a month raise. that is a start... not the $900 they wanted. I would love a 25 to 30% raise too!

I'd never recommend option 1 "Suck it up" whatever the dispute!!! Option 3 Leave.... I'm sure many teachers have done that. Option 2 Lobby....That is what they are doing by striking So we agree on 2 out of 3

they were not recommendation those are the only things you can do.

and I am hearing that many schools are close and they do not have near enough subs to cover classes.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

they get between $20 and $30 an hour that is not bad. That is about $60K corrected for days worked.

You must be clueless about teachers. You have no idea how many hours above the scheduled time may teachers put in. There is a reason why there is so much teacher burnout compared to other jobs. Moreover, they keep adding non-teaching components to the jobs that they didn't sign on for. I guess you think you know more than the 40,000 teachers about their jobs and situations.

Genesia said:

TrivialPursuit said:

No one is harming the kids. Not everyone can afford to move. If they made enough to move, they'd not be striking in the first place. There are substitute teachers that are called in. It's not like the kids are just pooled into the gymnasium for six hours until the end of the day.

The local government that doesn't care about teachers is what's sad. You can't blame the victims of low pay and politics. You stand with them.

You don't think teacher strikes harm kids? Really? Strikes hurt families TERRIBLY.

They call in substitute teachers? I bet you anything they don't. The teacher unions would be out there picketing and screaming "scab" at anyone who would cross the picket lines - just like in every other union fight.

What happens when kids aren't in school - where they're supposed to be for approximately 180 days a year (depending on the state and school district)? Parents have to take care of them - or arrange alternative care during the day. Who do you think this hurts the most? Poor families - who have fewer resources for arranging alternative care for their kids during a strike. Those parents have to give up work and lose pay (maybe lose their job entirely), pay for someone to watch the kids (which they can ill afford), or let their kids run wild. Some choice.

School years are set by state statute. That means that if the kids aren't in school now, they're going to have to be in school during the summer. That means families can't plan for vacations, kids who are old enough can't arrange summer jobs (and will lose pay), or engage in other activities.

I don't know the issues in Oklahoma and will refrain from commenting on that strike, specifically. But it's just ridiculous to think that no one is harmed when teachers strike.

Edited to note: I was a sophomore in high school when the teachers in the district where I lived went on a two-week strike in January of 1976. In addition, I was a sophomore in college when the teaching assistants at the college I attended went on strike in the spring of 1980. I have been hurt personally by two strikes by teachers. (In one case, nearly flunking out because I was enrolled in a very difficult 5-credit class that I couldn't pass when the discussion sections - taught by TAs - were cancelled and the TA I had hired as a tutor also quit in that respect.) I know what I'm talking about.

Oh! One more thing regarding strikes and poor kids:

Many children are eligible for free or discounted breakfast and lunch at school. What happens when there is a strike and there is no school? Now, parents who already have a hard time providing adequate nutrition have to come up with additional meals at home. How many kids are going hungry as a result?

Nope. No harm, at all.

endymion said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

they were not recommendation those are the only things you can do.

Ahhh I see just some ideas of yours. It's almost like this whole thing isn't simple and clear cut. Looks like we agree again.

and I am not unsympathetic. It is just odd even back (mumbles) years ago I always heard that teachers were underpaid. So it is not like it is a new thing. And there are a lot of teachers. So even a small raise is very costly.

But in this case, the fact is the kids are not getting the instruction they would have gotten.