EmmaMcG said:

seems that no matter what they do with Star Wars, people will always complain.

And there it t-i-s. Being a SW geek myself, I think the devoted fans have asserted ownership over this franchise from the minute it blew our minds 40 years ago (or 30, 25, etc.). TLJ put its finger on the real issue: can the fanboys and fangirls who have kept this phenomenon alive for 2 generations truly turn the page?

Thematically and, sadly, literally, the original Big Three can't stick around forever in the story. One of the three famously didn't want to.

But we fans, as a whole, have trouble accepting changes to the saga we love, and in some ways, the saga we built in our own minds.

There isn't a single movie in this saga that hasn't had plot holes, or defied the laws of science or common sense. We go to these movies with the saga we have, not the saga we wish we had. And the results since 2015 have overall been really good.

[Edited 1/2/18 10:52am]

babynoz said:

If Snoke isn't a Sith then how could he train Kylo to be an effective Dark Lord? Would he even be powerful enough?

I'm not fully convinced "Snoke"'s storyline is done.

There's still the Plagueis angle to play.

How did such a powerful Dark Side master just so happen to rise and seize power in the wake of Sidious' death? The Galaxy simply wasn't big enough for "Snoke" and Sidious. Perhaps Snoke IS Plagueis, and bid his time until Sidious' death to resurface, somehow.

There's the distinct possibility that Rey and Ben have to deal with him again. Or the rest of the Knights of Ren, organized by Hux to wage a coup against Ben.

Perhaps, like Rey's parents, Snoke is a red herring. But I'm not quite there yet.

namepeace said:

EmmaMcG said:

seems that no matter what they do with Star Wars, people will always complain.

And there it t-i-s. Being a SW geek myself, I think the devoted fans have asserted ownership over this franchise from the minute it blew our minds 40 years ago (or 30, 25, etc.). TLJ put its finger on the real issue: can the fanboys and fangirls who have kept this phenomenon alive for 2 generations truly turn the page?

Thematically and, sadly, literally, the original Big Three can't stick around forever in the story. One of the three famously didn't want to.

But we fans, as a whole, have trouble accepting changes to the saga we love, and in some ways, the saga we built in our own minds.

There isn't a single movie in this saga that hasn't had plot holes, or defied the laws of science or common sense. We go to these movies with the saga we have, not the saga we wish we had. And the results since 2015 have overall been really good.

[Edited 1/2/18 10:52am]

It's not about changes, every sane minded fan would accept changes to further a story...
This is more about lazily written and simply uninteresting (new) characters next to uninteresting plot points just to give them something to do...
Also the disrespectful way older characters are written off, just to get rid of them so these new underwritten characters can take center spot, is just plain stupid and shows a lack of interest in or knowledge of these characters by the director/Kathleen Kennedy and Disney... It's painfully obvious these people don't like or care about "Star Wars" other than the money it makes...
I understand this whole "Star Wars" thing is a ploy to sell cheaply made toys but still, people were invested in these characters and their adventures... Now, not so much...
It's cool that there are some people who like this shit but they could have at least taken some effort in respectfully send off the characters that created the brand for the people who made the brand...

Neversin.

Neversin said:

namepeace said:

And there it t-i-s. Being a SW geek myself, I think the devoted fans have asserted ownership over this franchise from the minute it blew our minds 40 years ago (or 30, 25, etc.). TLJ put its finger on the real issue: can the fanboys and fangirls who have kept this phenomenon alive for 2 generations truly turn the page?

Thematically and, sadly, literally, the original Big Three can't stick around forever in the story. One of the three famously didn't want to.

But we fans, as a whole, have trouble accepting changes to the saga we love, and in some ways, the saga we built in our own minds.

There isn't a single movie in this saga that hasn't had plot holes, or defied the laws of science or common sense. We go to these movies with the saga we have, not the saga we wish we had. And the results since 2015 have overall been really good.

[Edited 1/2/18 10:52am]

It's not about changes, every sane minded fan would accept changes to further a story...
This is more about lazily written and simply uninteresting (new) characters next to uninteresting plot points just to give them something to do...
Also the disrespectful way older characters are written off, just to get rid of them so these new underwritten characters can take center spot, is just plain stupid and shows a lack of interest in or knowledge of these characters by the director/Kathleen Kennedy and Disney... It's painfully obvious these people don't like or care about "Star Wars" other than the money it makes...
I understand this whole "Star Wars" thing is a ploy to sell cheaply made toys but still, people were invested in these characters and their adventures... Now, not so much...
It's cool that there are some people who like this shit but they could have at least taken some effort in respectfully send off the characters that created the brand for the people who made the brand...

Neversin.

AMEN!!

[Edited 1/3/18 9:31am]

Neversin said:

namepeace said:

And there it t-i-s. Being a SW geek myself, I think the devoted fans have asserted ownership over this franchise from the minute it blew our minds 40 years ago (or 30, 25, etc.). TLJ put its finger on the real issue: can the fanboys and fangirls who have kept this phenomenon alive for 2 generations truly turn the page?

Thematically and, sadly, literally, the original Big Three can't stick around forever in the story. One of the three famously didn't want to.

But we fans, as a whole, have trouble accepting changes to the saga we love, and in some ways, the saga we built in our own minds.

There isn't a single movie in this saga that hasn't had plot holes, or defied the laws of science or common sense. We go to these movies with the saga we have, not the saga we wish we had. And the results since 2015 have overall been really good.

[Edited 1/2/18 10:52am]

It's not about changes, every sane minded fan would accept changes to further a story... This is more about lazily written and simply uninteresting (new) characters next to uninteresting plot points just to give them something to do...


Also the disrespectful way older characters are written off, just to get rid of them so these new underwritten characters can take center spot, is just plain stupid and shows a lack of interest in or knowledge of these characters by the director/Kathleen Kennedy and Disney... It's painfully obvious these people don't like or care about "Star Wars" other than the money it makes...


I understand this whole "Star Wars" thing is a ploy to sell cheaply made toys but
still, people were invested in these characters and their adventures... Now, not so much...

It's cool that there are some people who like this shit but they could have at least taken some effort in respectfully send off the characters that created the brand for the people who made the brand...

Neversin.

You're assuming that we SW geeks are sane.

The new movies have clear flaws. I think everyone would agree that Act II drags. And you have a point about the new characters.

The most interesting characters in the OT were Darth Vader and Han Solo -- a fearsome, mysterious, (and quite layered) villain and a charismatic, funny, reckless scoundrel. The new films don't really have characters we're invested in. They're trying to make Poe Dameron the Solo of the NT but they really haven't given him much to do. I think Team Disney is banking on the SW Universe to sell itself with a more limited Big Three presence.

This idea that Big Three were underwritten isn't completely true. As for Han Solo, you know as I do that Harrison Ford probably wasn't coming back unless he was getting killed off in VII, since he actually lobbied for that to happen in VI. Ford gave us vintage Solo, he was central to moving the movie forward, and he was the heart of VII.

As for Leia, we clearly can't blame Disney for scrambling after the death of Carrie Fisher to build a decent narrative for VIII and IX.

As for Luke, well, somebody had to fulfill the Old Man role, and he did it really well. His NOT being in VII was a plot point that we can argue about. But he was really the focal point of VIII. We got a glimpse into his backstory after the Empire fell, and he literally went out in a blaze of glory at the end of the damn thing.

How would you have sent them off? (I'm genuinely asking.)

Team Disney hasn't been perfect, but outside of making money and selling merchandise, which is their job, they were never going to be able to win completely. We were always going to find something to complain about. But seeing that this is a space opera, and not the Orestia, they've generally done well.

It is the highest grossing film of the year--something all the other live-action films did except for AotC which ended at #3.

It also did better than "Rogue One" and is doing about 60% of what TFA did. (so at this pace it will end up at about $666 Million.)

It is ranked #6 adjusted for inflation of the 9 Star Wars movies. #2 not-adjusted.

Solo: a Star Wars Story may be in trouble. After its directors were fired and Ron Howard was brought in to rescue the film there are still rumors that Disney and Lucasfilm are bracing for a bomb!

It will face stiff competition from Avengers, Jurassic Park, and Incredibles II.

Of the movies I know of coming out next year, I doubt I will see more than 3: Solo, The Meg, and maybe Deadpool!

namepeace said:

Neversin said:

It's not about changes, every sane minded fan would accept changes to further a story... This is more about lazily written and simply uninteresting (new) characters next to uninteresting plot points just to give them something to do...


Also the disrespectful way older characters are written off, just to get rid of them so these new underwritten characters can take center spot, is just plain stupid and shows a lack of interest in or knowledge of these characters by the director/Kathleen Kennedy and Disney... It's painfully obvious these people don't like or care about "Star Wars" other than the money it makes...


I understand this whole "Star Wars" thing is a ploy to sell cheaply made toys but
still, people were invested in these characters and their adventures... Now, not so much...

It's cool that there are some people who like this shit but they could have at least taken some effort in respectfully send off the characters that created the brand for the people who made the brand...

Neversin.

You're assuming that we SW geeks are sane.

The new movies have clear flaws. I think everyone would agree that Act II drags. And you have a point about the new characters.

The most interesting characters in the OT were Darth Vader and Han Solo -- a fearsome, mysterious, (and quite layered) villain and a charismatic, funny, reckless scoundrel. The new films don't really have characters we're invested in. They're trying to make Poe Dameron the Solo of the NT but they really haven't given him much to do. I think Team Disney is banking on the SW Universe to sell itself with a more limited Big Three presence.

This idea that Big Three were underwritten isn't completely true. As for Han Solo, you know as I do that Harrison Ford probably wasn't coming back unless he was getting killed off in VII, since he actually lobbied for that to happen in VI. Ford gave us vintage Solo, he was central to moving the movie forward, and he was the heart of VII.

As for Leia, we clearly can't blame Disney for scrambling after the death of Carrie Fisher to build a decent narrative for VIII and IX.

As for Luke, well, somebody had to fulfill the Old Man role, and he did it really well. His NOT being in VII was a plot point that we can argue about. But he was really the focal point of VIII. We got a glimpse into his backstory after the Empire fell, and he literally went out in a blaze of glory at the end of the damn thing.

How would you have sent them off? (I'm genuinely asking.)

Team Disney hasn't been perfect, but outside of making money and selling merchandise, which is their job, they were never going to be able to win completely. We were always going to find something to complain about. But seeing that this is a space opera, and not the Orestia, they've generally done well.

Han's death was cool with me simply because it showed what kind of potential the character Kylo Ren had... I liked that...
In TLJ Leia should have had Holdo's scene, that would have made it impactful and strong...
I understand they didn't know Fisher was going to die but then they should have used Ackbar for that scene... But they only offed him in simple fashion for diversity sake (the need for some purple haired woman character to be heroic because that's the hip thing now just to get women in theater seats...)
Luke shouldn't have been some pussy did-nothing-for-30-years hermit who got scared by his kid nephew... This guy refused to fight Vader for fucks sake and tried to turn him... FUCKING VADER!
This was not "Luke Skywalker"... He should have faced Ren, and maybe even lost to him to show how powerful this new guy is, and the rest of the movie train Rey as a new Force beacon...
Sure, cliche... But it's Star Wars not "Othello"...

Neversin.

[Edited 1/5/18 2:14am]

Neversin said:

Han's death was cool with me simply because it showed what kind of potential the character Kylo Ren had... I liked that...

So did I, which was one of the reasons I thought Han tied VII together.

In TLJ Leia should have had Holdo's scene, that would have made it impactful and strong...

That was a curious choice for me as well. I was surprised Leia made it through. Her sendoff is going to be anticlimatic.

I understand they didn't know Fisher was going to die but then they should have used Ackbar for that scene... But they only offed him in simple fashion for diversity sake (the need for some purple haired woman character to be heroic because that's the hip thing now just to get women in theater seats...)

Ackbar was a fan service device. Honestly, most moviegoers likely didn't care about him.

Luke shouldn't have been some pussy did-nothing-for-30-years hermit who got scared by his kid nephew... This guy refused to fight Vader for fucks sake and tried to turn him... FUCKING VADER!
This was not "Luke Skywalker"... He should have faced Ren, and maybe even lost to him to show how powerful this new guy is, and the rest of the movie train Rey as a new Force beacon...

Based on the trailer, I was thinking Luke would fight and fall to Snoke to save Rey, and hopefully prod Ben back to the light.

And it's not fair to say Luke "did-nothing-for-30-years." He tried to restore the freaking Jedi Order! In the old EU, he scoured the galaxy looking for candidates, so that probably took him years to find the kids, and years more to train them. That's why he took off . . . he'd worked years, maybe decades, to get to that point and he destroyed it in a flash of impulse (the Anakin in him). Perhaps THAT could have been the focal point of the new trilogy, which would have been cool.

Sure, cliche... But it's Star Wars not "Othello"...

Indeed.

namepeace said:

Neversin said:

Han's death was cool with me simply because it showed what kind of potential the character Kylo Ren had... I liked that...

So did I, which was one of the reasons I thought Han tied VII together.

In TLJ Leia should have had Holdo's scene, that would have made it impactful and strong...

That was a curious choice for me as well. I was surprised Leia made it through. Her sendoff is going to be anticlimatic.

I understand they didn't know Fisher was going to die but then they should have used Ackbar for that scene... But they only offed him in simple fashion for diversity sake (the need for some purple haired woman character to be heroic because that's the hip thing now just to get women in theater seats...)

Ackbar was a fan service device. Honestly, most moviegoers likely didn't care about him.

Luke shouldn't have been some pussy did-nothing-for-30-years hermit who got scared by his kid nephew... This guy refused to fight Vader for fucks sake and tried to turn him... FUCKING VADER!
This was not "Luke Skywalker"... He should have faced Ren, and maybe even lost to him to show how powerful this new guy is, and the rest of the movie train Rey as a new Force beacon...

Based on the trailer, I was thinking Luke would fight and fall to Snoke to save Rey, and hopefully prod Ben back to the light.

And it's not fair to say Luke "did-nothing-for-30-years." He tried to restore the freaking Jedi Order! In the old EU, he scoured the galaxy looking for candidates, so that probably took him years to find the kids, and years more to train them. That's why he took off . . . he'd worked years, maybe decades, to get to that point and he destroyed it in a flash of impulse (the Anakin in him). Perhaps THAT could have been the focal point of the new trilogy, which would have been cool.

Sure, cliche... But it's Star Wars not "Othello"...

Indeed.

Sadly the old EU is non canon as per pedo Disney fucknecks...
In this new movie it just seems he was trying to setup an academy to train Ben and maybe some others and then went all pussy...

Neversin.

Is the force still with us?

Neversin said:

namepeace said:

Sadly the old EU is non canon . . .
In this new movie it just seems he was trying to setup an academy to train Ben and maybe some others and then went all pussy...

Neversin.

They ripped the Ben/Ren storyline straight from the EU.

namepeace said:

Neversin said:

Sadly the old EU is non canon . . .
In this new movie it just seems he was trying to setup an academy to train Ben and maybe some others and then went all pussy...

Neversin.

They ripped the Ben/Ren storyline straight from the EU.

Without Jacen and Jaina it doesn't even come close...
Ben being Leia and Han's son with, seemingly, no siblings...
Luke without wife and kid...
Disney just cherry picked nonsense and made it even worse...

Neversin.

The Case Against The Jedi - YouTube

Excellent video and it's right on the money. If Anakin had received the emotional support he desperately needed, he might not have become Vader.

[Edited 1/11/18 15:45pm]

uPtoWnNY said:

The Case Against The Jedi - YouTube

Excellent video and it's right on the money. If Anakin had received the emotional support he desperately needed, he might not have become Vader.

[Edited 1/11/18 15:45pm]

Sidious wasn't that far off.

"The Sith and the Jedi, are similar in almost every way. Including their quest for greater power."

They feared Anakin's power, they feared Palpatine, they feared the Senate discovering that their ability to use the Force had been diminished. It drove all their decisions accordingly, and Sidious played them like an accordion.

namepeace said:

uPtoWnNY said:

The Case Against The Jedi - YouTube

Excellent video and it's right on the money. If Anakin had received the emotional support he desperately needed, he might not have become Vader.

[Edited 1/11/18 15:45pm]

Sidious wasn't that far off.

"The Sith and the Jedi, are similar in almost every way. Including their quest for greater power."

They feared Anakin's power, they feared Palpatine, they feared the Senate discovering that their ability to use the Force had been diminished. It drove all their decisions accordingly, and Sidious played them like an accordion.

Two sides of the same coin.

uPtoWnNY said:

namepeace said:

Sidious wasn't that far off.

"The Sith and the Jedi, are similar in almost every way. Including their quest for greater power."

They feared Anakin's power, they feared Palpatine, they feared the Senate discovering that their ability to use the Force had been diminished. It drove all their decisions accordingly, and Sidious played them like an accordion.

Two sides of the same coin.

That's where I think TLJ is going, using Luke and Yoda as proxies.

Luke recognizes that in the Jedi's history, and himself. He began to believe in the legend of "Luke Skywalker" and worked to protect it, and actually fought against it. He knew the Jedi had been played by Sidious (whom he namechecks to legitimize the prequels). He also even shades Obi-Wan a bit for training his father, who went on to destroy the Order.

That's where Yoda comes in and tells him he has to embrace failure as part of the process, and detach himself from holding on to symbols of the past for their own sake. He even gaslights the Temple to prove his point.

Think also about Luke flipping his father's saber -- the Galaxy's version of the Holy Grail -- over his shoulder in his first TLJ scene. It harkened back to when he tossed aside his own "laser sword" in VI. That was a move neither the Sith NOR the Jedi wanted -- Sidious and Yoda/Ben wanted Luke to strike down his father but for different reasons . . . 2 sides of the same coin. But Luke broke the cycle and nearly died to both destroy Vader AND save Anakin. (Lucas even says so in prior interviews). He took the road less traveled again in TLJ. Both moves were genius, but go to your point.

TLJ actually speaks to your point explicitly, in ways the prior episodes only do indirectly.

[Edited 1/17/18 10:19am]

Neversin said:

namepeace said:

You're assuming that we SW geeks are sane.

The new movies have clear flaws. I think everyone would agree that Act II drags. And you have a point about the new characters.

The most interesting characters in the OT were Darth Vader and Han Solo -- a fearsome, mysterious, (and quite layered) villain and a charismatic, funny, reckless scoundrel. The new films don't really have characters we're invested in. They're trying to make Poe Dameron the Solo of the NT but they really haven't given him much to do. I think Team Disney is banking on the SW Universe to sell itself with a more limited Big Three presence.

This idea that Big Three were underwritten isn't completely true. As for Han Solo, you know as I do that Harrison Ford probably wasn't coming back unless he was getting killed off in VII, since he actually lobbied for that to happen in VI. Ford gave us vintage Solo, he was central to moving the movie forward, and he was the heart of VII.

As for Leia, we clearly can't blame Disney for scrambling after the death of Carrie Fisher to build a decent narrative for VIII and IX.

As for Luke, well, somebody had to fulfill the Old Man role, and he did it really well. His NOT being in VII was a plot point that we can argue about. But he was really the focal point of VIII. We got a glimpse into his backstory after the Empire fell, and he literally went out in a blaze of glory at the end of the damn thing.

How would you have sent them off? (I'm genuinely asking.)

Team Disney hasn't been perfect, but outside of making money and selling merchandise, which is their job, they were never going to be able to win completely. We were always going to find something to complain about. But seeing that this is a space opera, and not the Orestia, they've generally done well.

Han's death was cool with me simply because it showed what kind of potential the character Kylo Ren had... I liked that...
In TLJ Leia should have had Holdo's scene, that would have made it impactful and strong...
I understand they didn't know Fisher was going to die but then they should have used Ackbar for that scene... But they only offed him in simple fashion for diversity sake (the need for some purple haired woman character to be heroic because that's the hip thing now just to get women in theater seats...)
Luke shouldn't have been some pussy did-nothing-for-30-years hermit who got scared by his kid nephew... This guy refused to fight Vader for fucks sake and tried to turn him... FUCKING VADER!
This was not "Luke Skywalker"... He should have faced Ren, and maybe even lost to him to show how powerful this new guy is, and the rest of the movie train Rey as a new Force beacon...
Sure, cliche... But it's Star Wars not "Othello"...

Neversin.

[Edited 1/5/18 2:14am]

I just saw THJ for the first time. It's as bad as Phantom Menace. TRIPLE co-sign on everything Neversin said. Kathleen Kennedy & Rian Johnson should be tarred & feathered for fucking the franchise and ruining Luke.

2freaky4church1 said:

Is the force still with us?

No the Whills have left

uPtoWnNY said:

Neversin said:

Han's death was cool with me simply because it showed what kind of potential the character Kylo Ren had... I liked that...
In TLJ Leia should have had Holdo's scene, that would have made it impactful and strong...
I understand they didn't know Fisher was going to die but then they should have used Ackbar for that scene... But they only offed him in simple fashion for diversity sake (the need for some purple haired woman character to be heroic because that's the hip thing now just to get women in theater seats...)
Luke shouldn't have been some pussy did-nothing-for-30-years hermit who got scared by his kid nephew... This guy refused to fight Vader for fucks sake and tried to turn him... FUCKING VADER!
This was not "Luke Skywalker"... He should have faced Ren, and maybe even lost to him to show how powerful this new guy is, and the rest of the movie train Rey as a new Force beacon...
Sure, cliche... But it's Star Wars not "Othello"...

Neversin.

[Edited 1/5/18 2:14am]

I just saw THJ for the first time. It's as bad as Phantom Menace. TRIPLE co-sign on everything Neversin said. Kathleen Kennedy & Rian Johnson should be tarred & feathered for fucking the franchise and ruining Luke.

So, the movie didn't meet with your expectations about how the characters should have played out?

namepeace said:

uPtoWnNY said:

I just saw THJ for the first time. It's as bad as Phantom Menace. TRIPLE co-sign on everything Neversin said. Kathleen Kennedy & Rian Johnson should be tarred & feathered for fucking the franchise and ruining Luke.

So, the movie didn't meet with your expectations about how the characters should have played out?

.....especially Luke. And why the need to hammer the audience with so many political messages? I'm as liberal as they come, but that really annoyed me. Give me a great fucking STORY. TLJ is all over the place.

To this date, A New Hope and Empire are still the only great SW movies. The rest are hit & miss.

uPtoWnNY said:

.....especially Luke. And why the need to hammer the audience with so many political messages? I'm as liberal as they come, but that really annoyed me. Give me a great fucking STORY. TLJ is all over the place.

To this date, A New Hope and Empire are still the only great SW movies. The rest are hit & miss.

There are legit criticisms of TLJ but I think the main reason people didn't like it was not because it wasn't a good movie, but because it failed to meet their expectations of what it should have been.

If you're of a certain age, Lucasfilm could release a Star Wars film every year till you pass on and NONE of them will compare to IV or V.

namepeace said:

uPtoWnNY said:

.....especially Luke. And why the need to hammer the audience with so many political messages? I'm as liberal as they come, but that really annoyed me. Give me a great fucking STORY. TLJ is all over the place.

To this date, A New Hope and Empire are still the only great SW movies. The rest are hit & miss.

There are legit criticisms of TLJ but I think the main reason people didn't like it was not because it wasn't a good movie, but because it failed to meet their expectations of what it should have been.

If you're of a certain age, Lucasfilm could release a Star Wars film every year till you pass on and NONE of them will compare to IV or V.

Partly true...
It wasn't a good movie because the story was shit... Everything set up in the previous movie was neglected and this was like an "Elseworld" version of "Star Wars" or even some shitty fanmade movie of a "Star Wars" story or legend that has no connection to the rest of the episodes... I could accept that, but sadly this is a legit "Episode"...

Neversin.

Neversin said:

namepeace said:

There are legit criticisms of TLJ but I think the main reason people didn't like it was not because it wasn't a good movie, but because it failed to meet their expectations of what it should have been.

If you're of a certain age, Lucasfilm could release a Star Wars film every year till you pass on and NONE of them will compare to IV or V.

Partly true...
It wasn't a good movie because the story was shit... Everything set up in the previous movie was neglected and this was like an "Elseworld" version of "Star Wars" or even some shitty fanmade movie of a "Star Wars" story or legend that has no connection to the rest of the episodes... I could accept that, but sadly this is a legit "Episode"...

Neversin.

THat's a really good point and one of the strongest criticisms of VII. V had a much different tone than IV but there was much better continuity between those two than there is between the last 2.

namepeace said:

ufoclub said:

namepeace said:

THat's a really good point and one of the strongest criticisms of VII. V had a much different tone than IV but there was much better continuity between those two than there is between the last 2.

Totally works if you really grew to hate The Force Awakens. That movie is hard to sit through for repeat viewing... not good for a Star Wars movie. I think this news one was much much better.

I agree that "The Force Awakens" becomes worse every subsequent viewing but I liked it the first time I saw it... "The Last Jedi", however, gave me the same feeling "The Phantom Menace" and "Rogue One" gave me of pure grade A garbage...
And, honestly, I should have expected it to be crap... It seems every time a trailer comes out for a "Star Wars" movie and I like it then the movie itself is shit and when I hate the trailer then the movie is great... I thought the trailers for each one of these movies were fantastic only to be hugely let down by the movie itself...

Neversin.

Neversin said:

namepeace said:

There are legit criticisms of TLJ but I think the main reason people didn't like it was not because it wasn't a good movie, but because it failed to meet their expectations of what it should have been.

If you're of a certain age, Lucasfilm could release a Star Wars film every year till you pass on and NONE of them will compare to IV or V.

Partly true...
It wasn't a good movie because the story was shit... Everything set up in the previous movie was neglected and this was like an "Elseworld" version of "Star Wars" or even some shitty fanmade movie of a "Star Wars" story or legend that has no connection to the rest of the episodes... I could accept that, but sadly this is a legit "Episode"...

Neversin.

Neversin said:

ufoclub said:

namepeace said: Totally works if you really grew to hate The Force Awakens. That movie is hard to sit through for repeat viewing... not good for a Star Wars movie. I think this news one was much much better.

I agree that "The Force Awakens" becomes worse every subsequent viewing but I liked it the first time I saw it... "The Last Jedi", however, gave me the same feeling "The Phantom Menace" and "Rogue One" gave me of pure grade A garbage...
And, honestly, I should have expected it to be crap... It seems every time a trailer comes out for a "Star Wars" movie and I like it then the movie itself is shit and when I hate the trailer then the movie is great... I thought the trailers for each one of these movies were fantastic only to be hugely let down by the movie itself...

Neversin.

I think Rogue One is actually a really good movie. I think it added greater weight to A New Hope. It showed the Rebellion didn't just boil down to six people.

TFA and TLJ have another big problem: they don't have Darth Vader at the center of the film, like the OT and the prequels did. SW geeks simply aren't as invested in what they see (hell, even what his Uncle and his Dark Master saw) as Emo Vader. Or the New New Hope, Rey.

I'm still a fan of TLJ but I understand the criticisms as I get further and further away from it. I still think it's more than worthy of the canon.

[Edited 2/1/18 16:02pm]

namepeace said:

Neversin said:

I agree that "The Force Awakens" becomes worse every subsequent viewing but I liked it the first time I saw it... "The Last Jedi", however, gave me the same feeling "The Phantom Menace" and "Rogue One" gave me of pure grade A garbage...
And, honestly, I should have expected it to be crap... It seems every time a trailer comes out for a "Star Wars" movie and I like it then the movie itself is shit and when I hate the trailer then the movie is great... I thought the trailers for each one of these movies were fantastic only to be hugely let down by the movie itself...

Neversin.

I think Rogue One is actually a really good movie. I think it added greater weight to A New Hope. It showed the Rebellion didn't just boil down to six people.

TFA and TLJ have another big problem: they don't have Darth Vader at the center of the film, like the OT and the prequels did. SW geeks simply aren't as invested in what they see (hell, even what his Uncle and his Dark Master saw) as Emo Vader. Or the New New Hope, Rey.

I'm still a fan of TLJ but I understand the criticisms as I get further and further away from it. I still think it's more than worthy of the canon.

[Edited 2/1/18 16:02pm]

....and Snoke is no Palpatine.

uPtoWnNY said:

namepeace said:

I think Rogue One is actually a really good movie. I think it added greater weight to A New Hope. It showed the Rebellion didn't just boil down to six people.

TFA and TLJ have another big problem: they don't have Darth Vader at the center of the film, like the OT and the prequels did. SW geeks simply aren't as invested in what they see (hell, even what his Uncle and his Dark Master saw) as Emo Vader. Or the New New Hope, Rey.

I'm still a fan of TLJ but I understand the criticisms as I get further and further away from it. I still think it's more than worthy of the canon.

[Edited 2/1/18 16:02pm]

....and Snoke is no Palpatine.

Palpatine had a much heavier lift than Snoke, and for all we know, f Snoke is Plagueis, Palpatine took Snoke out.