Dancelot 
|
TrevorAyer said:
Luke was a jedi master very close to death and died after or during the astral projection ... force ghosts were established in the OT ... and can appear anywhere
but the ghosts only appear after death. Luke clearly died after the projection. and if I'm not mistaken the ghosts were only visible to other Jedis, correct?
but Luke aside, Rey an Ken were certainly NOT dead, so their projections had nothing to do with ghosts. it is no doubt a new skype-power of the force. and that sucks Vanglorious... this is protected by the red, the black, and the green. With a key... sissy! |
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OnlyNDaUsa 
|
Dancelot said:
TrevorAyer said:
Luke was a jedi master very close to death and died after or during the astral projection ... force ghosts were established in the OT ... and can appear anywhere
but the ghosts only appear after death. Luke clearly died after the projection. and if I'm not mistaken the ghosts were only visible to other Jedis, correct?
but Luke aside, Rey an Ken were certainly NOT dead, so their projections had nothing to do with ghosts. it is no doubt a new skype-power of the force. and that sucks
and it could interact physically and leave projections with physical properties which IIRC lasted after Luke "Died." But he also did not seem to scrap the salt off of the planet... "Keep on shilling for Big Pharm!" |
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djThunderfunk 
|
EmmaMcG said:
When they're making money hand over fist, I don't think they're particularly interested in what a few nerds think.
It's not a "few nerds", it's the people that made the IP worth 4B to Disney.
Because you can be sure that these are the same nerds who were opposed to Disney buying the Star Wars rights before they even seen The Force Awakens so no matter how this new trilogy turned out, they were always going to complain.
Not true. I'm one of those "few nerds". I didn't complain about The Force Awakens and absolutely LOVE Rogue One.
The fact is, The Force Awakens, Rogue One and The Last Jedi are better than most of the Star Wars movies that came before.
The "fact" is? No. It's not a fact. It's your opinion.
Not only that but they don't fuck with the Star Wars canon, which is something a lot of these same nerds have accused them of.
As for "canon", Disney absolutely DID fuck with it. They ditched nearly 40 years of novels, comics, and games from canon as soon as they got ownership. The theme of The Last Jedi is "nothing matters", Rian Johnson threw "canon" out the window. Everything we thought about the force, how it works, who can use it, etc, doesn't matter anymore. Even everything JJ set up in The Force Awakens doesn't matter. Who is Snoke? Doesn't matter. Who are Rey's parents? Doesn't matter.
I've also heard that the new movies are 'too Disney'. Which is bullshit. They're no different in tone to the other movies in the series. For every Porg, there's an ewok. For every BB-8 there's an R2-D2. The Star Wars movies have always been aimed at children. George Lucas himself said they were aimed primarily at 12 and 13 year old but that he hoped people of all ages would like them. Just like most Disney movies.
Nothing to disagree with here.
My points are, there's no reason to be hostile to the fanboys. We nitpick of course. Why? Because we care so much. Even Rian Johnson knows that. See what he had to say about it:
https://www.cbr.com/star-...-backlash/
This isn't left vs right politics. It's a movie franchise. There's no reason for hostility. Not from the most extreme fanboys who hate this movie and not from the casual fans who love it.
Personally, I think it's worse than all but Phantom Menace, but that doesn't mean I think "it sucked". I LOVE Star Wars and would rather watch (and rewatch many times) Phantom Menace and The Last Jedi than the types of movies that win Oscars during Awards Season. I'll be buying The Last Jedi on Blu to watch over and over but will never watch something like La La Land (I don't even know what the "awards" movies are for THIS year).
So, no reason for hate over opinions about movies. That's just silly, "first world problems" and such.
[Edited 12/19/17 6:14am] Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors. |
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EmmaMcG |
djThunderfunk said:
EmmaMcG said:
When they're making money hand over fist, I don't think they're particularly interested in what a few nerds think.
It's not a "few nerds", it's the people that made the IP worth 4B to Disney.
Because you can be sure that these are the same nerds who were opposed to Disney buying the Star Wars rights before they even seen The Force Awakens so no matter how this new trilogy turned out, they were always going to complain.
Not true. I'm one of those "few nerds". I didn't complain about The Force Awakens and absolutely LOVE Rogue One.
The fact is, The Force Awakens, Rogue One and The Last Jedi are better than most of the Star Wars movies that came before.
The "fact" is? No. It's not a fact. It's your opinion.
Not only that but they don't fuck with the Star Wars canon, which is something a lot of these same nerds have accused them of.
As for "canon", Disney absolutely DID fuck with it. They ditched nearly 40 years of novels, comics, and games from canon as soon as they got ownership. The theme of The Last Jedi is "nothing matters", Rian Johnson threw "canon" out the window. Everything we thought about the force, how it works, who can use it, etc, doesn't matter anymore. Even everything JJ set up in The Force Awakens doesn't matter. Who is Snoke? Doesn't matter. Who are Rey's parents? Doesn't matter.
I've also heard that the new movies are 'too Disney'. Which is bullshit. They're no different in tone to the other movies in the series. For every Porg, there's an ewok. For every BB-8 there's an R2-D2. The Star Wars movies have always been aimed at children. George Lucas himself said they were aimed primarily at 12 and 13 year old but that he hoped people of all ages would like them. Just like most Disney movies.
Nothing to disagree with here.
My points are, there's no reason to be hostile to the fanboys. We nitpick of course. Why? Because we care so much. Even Rian Johnson knows that. See what he had to say about it:
https://www.cbr.com/star-...-backlash/
This isn't left vs right politics. It's a movie franchise. There's no reason for hostility. Not from the most extreme fanboys who hate this movie and not from the casual fans who love it.
Personally, I think it's worse than all but Phantom Menace, but that doesn't mean I think "it sucked". I LOVE Star Wars and would rather watch (and rewatch many times) Phantom Menace and The Last Jedi than the types of movies that win Oscars during Awards Season. I'll be buying The Last Jedi on Blu to watch over and over but will never watch something like La La Land (I don't even know what the "awards" movies are for THIS year).
So, no reason for hate over opinions about movies. That's just silly, "first world problems" and such.
[Edited 12/19/17 6:14am] Disney know how to make a successful franchise. I doubt they care for the opinions of a few people who think they know better. I wasn't addressing you specifically when I said there are certain people who would always complain regardless of what Disney did with it. You're obviously more open minded than a lot of fanboys. But you can't deny a lot of those kinds of people exist. And yes, it IS my opinion but surely there's not many people who would claim that any of the prequels are better made movies than any of the 3 Disney made Star Wars movies. Return of the Jedi is also, I would argue, far less impressive than Disney's efforts. The point I'm making is that the franchise is in more capable hands than it was when George Lucas was in charge. The 40 years of novels and comics are not important in the grand scheme of things. The majority of people who will have seen the previous movies and will continue to go see the next ones won't have read these books. But if Disney were to keep them as canon all they'd be doing is restricting themselves. They can't change what happened in the previous movies or The Clone Wars even if they wanted but like I said, the books and comics are expendable. I don't mean to come across as hostile to anyone, least of all you, but these people with their little petitions are ridiculous. They want to change the movie because it didn't fit their own vision. But they need to remember that it's not in their right to dictate the story. They can always not watch it if it doesn't appeal to them. I know we're arguing (well, debating) about first world problems but we do live in the first world after all. |
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kpowers 
|
Overall liked I liked it, hate the ending with those kids playing with their Star Wars Toys. |
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namepeace |
djThunderfunk said:
My ranking for the 10 theatrical Star Wars movies:
01 - Star Wars (aka A New Hope)
02 - The Empire Strikes Back
03 - Rogue One
04 - Return Of The Jedi
05 - The Force Awakens
06 - Attack Of The Clones
07 - Revenge Of The Sith
08 - The Last Jedi
09 - The Phantom Menace
10 - The Clone Wars
Please explain how AOTC and ROTS are better than TLJ.
Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder |
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djThunderfunk
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EmmaMcG said:
Disney know how to make a successful franchise. I doubt they care for the opinions of a few people who think they know better.
They do "care", and they should. They should not cater, and they won't.
I wasn't addressing you specifically when I said there are certain people who would always complain regardless of what Disney did with it. You're obviously more open minded than a lot of fanboys.
Thank you. And for the record, I'm not offended or taking your comments personally. I'm just trying to offer a bit of balance to the "debate".
But you can't deny a lot of those kinds of people exist.
Of course they do. And sometimes they get a bit extreme, such as with this ridiculous petition that will go nowhere and is a waste of their time.
And yes, it IS my opinion but surely there's not many people who would claim that any of the prequels are better made movies than any of the 3 Disney made Star Wars movies. Return of the Jedi is also, I would argue, far less impressive than Disney's efforts.
If you take a look at my ranking in the posts above, I'm split. Rogue One was excellent, better than everything except the first 2. TFA is good, better than the prequels, not as good as the originals. The new one though, to me, is better than Phantom Menace but not as good as Episode II or III. It's pretty bad. But, as I said, I like "bad" Star Wars better than most movies. 
The point I'm making is that the franchise is in more capable hands than it was when George Lucas was in charge.
That's debatable. One thing that Disney is not doing well is planning. Lucas planned things out better at least. Disney should have had a rough outline for this trilogy before hiring directors. As it is, they're making it up as they go along, one movie at a time. That's great for the "Star Wars Stories" movies but isn't so good for a trilogy. That's why we got Rian Johnson disregarding much of what JJ set forth in TFA. It's not cool to set the audience up to care so much about Rey's parentage or Snoke's origin, only to have another director come in and decide none of that matters "I'm doing my own thing". There should have been a plan, an arc, then let him do his thing within a planned framework. The Last Jedi really is a poor follow up to The Force Awakens as the 2nd in a trilogy, even if you enjoyed it.
The 40 years of novels and comics are not important in the grand scheme of things. The majority of people who will have seen the previous movies and will continue to go see the next ones won't have read these books. But if Disney were to keep them as canon all they'd be doing is restricting themselves. They can't change what happened in the previous movies or The Clone Wars even if they wanted but like I said, the books and comics are expendable.
That's debatable too. The people that consume the expanded universe are the people that spend the most on Star Wars. Lucasfilm made it work for almost 40 years without problems, Disney could have at least tried to make some of it work.
I don't mean to come across as hostile to anyone, least of all you, but these people with their little petitions are ridiculous. They want to change the movie because it didn't fit their own vision. But they need to remember that it's not in their right to dictate the story. They can always not watch it if it doesn't appeal to them.
And I have no intention of invalidating your opinion. Just wanted to offer the other side to balance things out a bit.
I know we're arguing (well, debating) about first world problems but we do live in the first world after all.
 True! 
[Edited 12/19/17 9:46am] Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors. |
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namepeace |
djThunderfunk said:
Hudson said:
I hope Lucasfilm tells those fanboys to "suck my butt."
While obviously the petition is nonsense and Lucasfilm will not oblige, fanboys should not be casually disregarded.
Without them the Star Wars IP would have brought a fraction of the money it has over the last 40 years and most likely they will be responsible for most of the money it brings in over the next 40. I'm not saying that every decision should be designed to please them, merely that some respect is due.
The Last Jedi seeks to disabuse devoted fans of their attachments to what they think they know. It paid fanboys and fangirls the ultimate respect of presuming that their minds were open to new possibilities, and that they were open to re-evaluation and re-invention.
The messages to the fans were everywhere in the movie. Luke chucking aside the most revered icon in the series -- Anakin's lightsaber. Him telling Rey, "this is not going to go the way you think." Yoda literally knocking sense into Luke to wake up and accept the future for what it will be, not what he *thinks* it will be.
I'd been saying for months, that I had faith Rian Johnson would re-set the board with VIII. He did that. And this fan of 40 years is here for it.
Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder |
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djThunderfunk
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namepeace said:
djThunderfunk said:
My ranking for the 10 theatrical Star Wars movies:
01 - Star Wars (aka A New Hope)
02 - The Empire Strikes Back
03 - Rogue One
04 - Return Of The Jedi
05 - The Force Awakens
06 - Attack Of The Clones
07 - Revenge Of The Sith
08 - The Last Jedi
09 - The Phantom Menace
10 - The Clone Wars
Please explain how AOTC and ROTS are better than TLJ.
I enjoyed them more, that is all the criteria I need for my own personal ranking. No?
#'s 4-10 on my list all have issues and fall short of what I think Star Wars can and should be, but I like them ALL, even The Clone Wars.
For ME, there is more that gave me the thrill I get from Star Wars in AOTC & ROTS than in TLJ, and, the things I don't like about TLJ bother me more than the things I don't like about AOTC & ROTS.
If you feel differently that's great. I have no beef with that.
Personally, Leia flying through space, anyone can use the force, the ridiculous "plot" of the First Order chasing the Resistance through space, Rey's mastering of the force without training... all these things bother me more than Hayden Christianson's wooden acting, trade negotiations, Lucas' bad dialogue, etc... bothered me.
All that said, I'll still be buying the bluray and rewatching it many times in the future. It won't take many times for me to ignore the things I don't like and focus on the things I enjoy. Just like with Phantom Menace...
Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors. |
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namepeace |
Dancelot said:
TrevorAyer said:
Luke was a jedi master very close to death and died after or during the astral projection ... force ghosts were established in the OT ... and can appear anywhere
but the ghosts only appear after death. Luke clearly died after the projection. and if I'm not mistaken the ghosts were only visible to other Jedis, correct?
but Luke aside, Rey an Ken were certainly NOT dead, so their projections had nothing to do with ghosts. it is no doubt a new skype-power of the force. and that sucks
Not really. Vader and Luke, and Luke and Leia, communicated telepathically in V, and if the apocryphal stories are correct, Vader reached out to Luke in a deleted scene in VI. Sidious communicated with Anakin right before his turn in III.
Snoke, who in many ways may be even more powerful than Sidious (and I don't think we've heard the last of him) opened the pathway for the two to see each other. Luke used it as well. Not hard to accept given that he's had nearly 35 years of time to learn that skill.
It's not new -- they just moved from cell phones to FaceTime. Same concept, advanced technology.
Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder |
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djThunderfunk
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namepeace said:
The Last Jedi seeks to disabuse devoted fans of their attachments to what they think they know. It paid fanboys and fangirls the ultimate respect of presuming that their minds were open to new possibilities, and that they were open to re-evaluation and re-invention.
The messages to the fans were everywhere in the movie. Luke chucking aside the most revered icon in the series -- Anakin's lightsaber. Him telling Rey, "this is not going to go the way you think." Yoda literally knocking sense into Luke to wake up and accept the future for what it will be, not what he *thinks* it will be.
I'd been saying for months, that I had faith Rian Johnson would re-set the board with VIII. He did that. And this fan of 40 years is here for it.
Your opinion is valid.
So is mine: The theme to the movie is "nothing matters". The rules of how the force work that have been set up in the other movies, doesn't matter. The mysteries & questions left by TFA, doesn't matter. All that came before, doesn't matter.
Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors. |
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kpowers
|
namepeace said:
djThunderfunk said:
My ranking for the 10 theatrical Star Wars movies:
01 - Star Wars (aka A New Hope)
02 - The Empire Strikes Back
03 - Rogue One
04 - Return Of The Jedi
05 - The Force Awakens
06 - Attack Of The Clones
07 - Revenge Of The Sith
08 - The Last Jedi
09 - The Phantom Menace
10 - The Clone Wars
Please explain how AOTC and ROTS are better than TLJ.
Better yet explain why The Phantom Menace is better than The Clone Wars
 
|
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namepeace |
djThunderfunk said:
namepeace said:
Please explain how AOTC and ROTS are better than TLJ.
I enjoyed them more, that is all the criteria I need for my own personal ranking. No?
I'm not saying otherwise, I'm just trying to understand your Certain Point of View.
#'s 4-10 on my list all have issues and fall short of what I think Star Wars can and should be, but I like them ALL, even The Clone Wars.
For ME, there is more that gave me the thrill I get from Star Wars in AOTC & ROTS than in TLJ, and, the things I don't like about TLJ bother me more than the things I don't like about AOTC & ROTS.
If you feel differently that's great. I have no beef with that.
From my Certain Point of View, AOTC was even more disappointing than TPM because they took the issues with TPM and magnified them in AOTC.
Personally, Leia flying through space, anyone can use the force, the ridiculous "plot" of the First Order chasing the Resistance through space, Rey's mastering of the force without training... all these things bother me more than Hayden Christianson's wooden acting, trade negotiations, Lucas' bad dialogue, etc... bothered me.
Leia is the child of the one of the most powerful Force users in the history of the galaxy. You don't think she tested that power in the 30+ years she discovered who she was? Hell, in the EU she took on Sidious' clone to save Luke.
Plus, I mean, Luke basically had the same amount of training that Rey did after two movies, and she did have at least some fighting skill going in. And just as Vader did with Luke, Snoke wiped the floor with Rey -- literally. She's got a long way to go; she knows that because she took the homework with her  .
The chase was a siege moreso than a chase. The technology that enabled the FO to do so -- nearly 2 generations after the Empire fell -- is certainly plausible.
Of course, I can't argue away your own feelings, but IMHO the plot points in TLJ were far more consistent with the saga than many disgruntled fans want to accept.
All that said, I'll still be buying the bluray and rewatching it many times in the future. It won't take many times for me to ignore the things I don't like and focus on the things I enjoy. Just like with Phantom Menace...
There we go. Yoda help me, I still enjoy all of them too. They're going to get my money until I become One with the Force.
Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder |
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djThunderfunk
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kpowers said:
namepeace said:
Please explain how AOTC and ROTS are better than TLJ.
Better yet explain why The Phantom Menace is better than The Clone Wars
The Clone Wars series is FANTASTIC. The movie, not so much. The little Hutt baby was easily as annoying as Jar-Jar. Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors. |
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djThunderfunk
|
namepeace said:
djThunderfunk said:
I enjoyed them more, that is all the criteria I need for my own personal ranking. No?
I'm not saying otherwise, I'm just trying to understand your Certain Point of View.
#'s 4-10 on my list all have issues and fall short of what I think Star Wars can and should be, but I like them ALL, even The Clone Wars.
For ME, there is more that gave me the thrill I get from Star Wars in AOTC & ROTS than in TLJ, and, the things I don't like about TLJ bother me more than the things I don't like about AOTC & ROTS.
If you feel differently that's great. I have no beef with that.
From my Certain Point of View, AOTC was even more disappointing than TPM because they took the issues with TPM and magnified them in AOTC.
Personally, Leia flying through space, anyone can use the force, the ridiculous "plot" of the First Order chasing the Resistance through space, Rey's mastering of the force without training... all these things bother me more than Hayden Christianson's wooden acting, trade negotiations, Lucas' bad dialogue, etc... bothered me.
Leia is the child of the one of the most powerful Force users in the history of the galaxy. You don't think she tested that power in the 30+ years she discovered who she was? Hell, in the EU she took on Sidious' clone to save Luke.
Plus, I mean, Luke basically had the same amount of training that Rey did after two movies, and she did have at least some fighting skill going in. And just as Vader did with Luke, Snoke wiped the floor with Rey -- literally. She's got a long way to go; she knows that because she took the homework with her .
The chase was a siege moreso than a chase. The technology that enabled the FO to do so -- nearly 2 generations after the Empire fell -- is certainly plausible.
Of course, I can't argue away your own feelings, but IMHO the plot points in TLJ were far more consistent with the saga than many disgruntled fans want to accept.
All that said, I'll still be buying the bluray and rewatching it many times in the future. It won't take many times for me to ignore the things I don't like and focus on the things I enjoy. Just like with Phantom Menace...
There we go. Yoda help me, I still enjoy all of them too. They're going to get my money until I become One with the Force.
I don't think even Luke or Vader could have pulled off that flying through space BS that Leia did. That was just ridiculous. In my opinion, of course.
As for AOTC, I won't mention the bad, we all know what was wrong with that movie, LOL. I will say what I liked:
I like the battle between Obi-Wan & Jango on Kamino. After the coolness of Boba being wasted in the OT, it was an awesome thing to see. On that same note, Jango was badass on Geonosis as well, right up till he met the baddest MF Jedi, Mace Windu, and had a worthy death instead of going out like a bitch like Boba did.
I like the lightsaber battle between Yoda & Dooku. I like it even better than the one with the Emperor in ROTS. It was the first time we saw Yoda in battle and that scene still thrills me.
I like Anakin losing it and taking out the Tusken Raiders. The only thing that I don't like about that scene is that it's far too short and didn't show enough.
I get more enjoyment from those few scenes than anything in ROTS, TLJ or TPM.
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Hudson 
|
I've seen The Phantom Menace over 100 times and it's still exciting every time. The Clone Wars movie I get bored and never make it past 15 minutes. If i hadn't payed to see it in the cinema I would have never finished it. The novelization of the movie wasn't anything to write home about but it was much better. It still only counts as a pilot to an animated series, not a movie. The animation in both animated series is also very ugly and I can't stomach them. |
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kpowers
|
djThunderfunk said:
kpowers said:
Better yet explain why The Phantom Menace is better than The Clone Wars
The Clone Wars series is FANTASTIC. The movie, not so much. The little Hutt baby was easily as annoying as Jar-Jar.
Not even close, Jar-Jar worse Sci-Fi character ever
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djThunderfunk
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kpowers said:
djThunderfunk said:
The Clone Wars series is FANTASTIC. The movie, not so much. The little Hutt baby was easily as annoying as Jar-Jar.
Not even close, Jar-Jar worse Sci-Fi character ever
Since both characters suck, it doesn't matter that we disagree.
Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors. |
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EmmaMcG |
djThunderfunk said:
namepeace said:
djThunderfunk said:
My ranking for the 10 theatrical Star Wars movies:
01 - Star Wars (aka A New Hope)
02 - The Empire Strikes Back
03 - Rogue One
04 - Return Of The Jedi
05 - The Force Awakens
06 - Attack Of The Clones
07 - Revenge Of The Sith
08 - The Last Jedi
09 - The Phantom Menace
10 - The Clone Wars
Please explain how AOTC and ROTS are better than TLJ.
I enjoyed them more, that is all the criteria I need for my own personal ranking. No?
#'s 4-10 on my list all have issues and fall short of what I think Star Wars can and should be, but I like them ALL, even The Clone Wars.
For ME, there is more that gave me the thrill I get from Star Wars in AOTC & ROTS than in TLJ, and, the things I don't like about TLJ bother me more than the things I don't like about AOTC & ROTS.
If you feel differently that's great. I have no beef with that.
Personally, Leia flying through space, anyone can use the force, the ridiculous "plot" of the First Order chasing the Resistance through space, Rey's mastering of the force without training... all these things bother me more than Hayden Christianson's wooden acting, trade negotiations, Lucas' bad dialogue, etc... bothered me.
All that said, I'll still be buying the bluray and rewatching it many times in the future. It won't take many times for me to ignore the things I don't like and focus on the things I enjoy. Just like with Phantom Menace...
In fairness to Hayden Christensen, I think he was told to act like that. Ewen McGregor did an interview with Total Film a couple of years ago and mentioned that Lucas wanted Anakin to have a similar speech pattern to Darth Vader. Which is all well and good for keeping continuity but it made him sound very unnatural. The dialogue didn't help either. But I kind of liked his portrayal in Revenge of the Sith. I think that's a very underrated Star Wars movie that suffered for being part of the prequel trilogy. |
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djThunderfunk
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EmmaMcG said:
djThunderfunk said:
I enjoyed them more, that is all the criteria I need for my own personal ranking. No?
#'s 4-10 on my list all have issues and fall short of what I think Star Wars can and should be, but I like them ALL, even The Clone Wars.
For ME, there is more that gave me the thrill I get from Star Wars in AOTC & ROTS than in TLJ, and, the things I don't like about TLJ bother me more than the things I don't like about AOTC & ROTS.
If you feel differently that's great. I have no beef with that.
Personally, Leia flying through space, anyone can use the force, the ridiculous "plot" of the First Order chasing the Resistance through space, Rey's mastering of the force without training... all these things bother me more than Hayden Christianson's wooden acting, trade negotiations, Lucas' bad dialogue, etc... bothered me.
All that said, I'll still be buying the bluray and rewatching it many times in the future. It won't take many times for me to ignore the things I don't like and focus on the things I enjoy. Just like with Phantom Menace...
In fairness to Hayden Christensen, I think he was told to act like that. Ewen McGregor did an interview with Total Film a couple of years ago and mentioned that Lucas wanted Anakin to have a similar speech pattern to Darth Vader. Which is all well and good for keeping continuity but it made him sound very unnatural. The dialogue didn't help either. But I kind of liked his portrayal in Revenge of the Sith. I think that's a very underrated Star Wars movie that suffered for being part of the prequel trilogy.
I'm actually surprised no one has taken me to task (yet) for ranking AOTC higher than ROTS, as, this is a VERY unpopular opinion.
But, that's ALL it is, an opinion.
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EmmaMcG |
djThunderfunk said:
EmmaMcG said:
Disney know how to make a successful franchise. I doubt they care for the opinions of a few people who think they know better.
They do "care", and they should. They should not cater, and they won't.
I wasn't addressing you specifically when I said there are certain people who would always complain regardless of what Disney did with it. You're obviously more open minded than a lot of fanboys.
Thank you. And for the record, I'm not offended or taking your comments personally. I'm just trying to offer a bit of balance to the "debate".
But you can't deny a lot of those kinds of people exist.
Of course they do. And sometimes they get a bit extreme, such as with this ridiculous petition that will go nowhere and is a waste of their time.
And yes, it IS my opinion but surely there's not many people who would claim that any of the prequels are better made movies than any of the 3 Disney made Star Wars movies. Return of the Jedi is also, I would argue, far less impressive than Disney's efforts.
If you take a look at my ranking in the posts above, I'm split. Rogue One was excellent, better than everything except the first 2. TFA is good, better than the prequels, not as good as the originals. The new one though, to me, is better than Phantom Menace but not as good as Episode II or III. It's pretty bad. But, as I said, I like "bad" Star Wars better than most movies.
The point I'm making is that the franchise is in more capable hands than it was when George Lucas was in charge.
That's debatable. One thing that Disney is not doing well is planning. Lucas planned things out better at least. Disney should have had a rough outline for this trilogy before hiring directors. As it is, they're making it up as they go along, one movie at a time. That's great for the "Star Wars Stories" movies but isn't so good for a trilogy. That's why we got Rian Johnson disregarding much of what JJ set forth in TFA. It's not cool to set the audience up to care so much about Rey's parentage or Snoke's origin, only to have another director come in and decide none of that matters "I'm doing my own thing". There should have been a plan, an arc, then let him do his thing within a planned framework. The Last Jedi really is a poor follow up to The Force Awakens as the 2nd in a trilogy, even if you enjoyed it.
The 40 years of novels and comics are not important in the grand scheme of things. The majority of people who will have seen the previous movies and will continue to go see the next ones won't have read these books. But if Disney were to keep them as canon all they'd be doing is restricting themselves. They can't change what happened in the previous movies or The Clone Wars even if they wanted but like I said, the books and comics are expendable.
That's debatable too. The people that consume the expanded universe are the people that spend the most on Star Wars. Lucasfilm made it work for almost 40 years without problems, Disney could have at least tried to make some of it work.
I don't mean to come across as hostile to anyone, least of all you, but these people with their little petitions are ridiculous. They want to change the movie because it didn't fit their own vision. But they need to remember that it's not in their right to dictate the story. They can always not watch it if it doesn't appeal to them.
And I have no intention of invalidating your opinion. Just wanted to offer the other side to balance things out a bit.
I know we're arguing (well, debating) about first world problems but we do live in the first world after all.
True!
[Edited 12/19/17 9:46am] JJ is directing Episode 9 so he may bring some of the questions raised in Force Awakens back into focus. Rey's parents being nobodies was something I enjoyed because it gives hope that there can be powerful heroes anywhere in the Galaxy and not just within the Skywalker family. But the news was broken to Rey by Kylo Ren while he was trying to get her on his side. If they want, they can just say it was all a lie and make her a Skywalker or a Solo or whatever. Maybe that's the plan anyway. As for Snoke, they kind of hinted at his past. The ring he had was made from material found on the planet Darth Vader had his castle on so he could easily be written off as just a Darth Vader fanboy who longed for power and bit off more than he could chew. If the intention is to make Kylo the main villain, then him killing Snoke just serves to point out how much of a threat he is. |
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EmmaMcG |
djThunderfunk said:
EmmaMcG said:
djThunderfunk said:
I enjoyed them more, that is all the criteria I need for my own personal ranking. No?
#'s 4-10 on my list all have issues and fall short of what I think Star Wars can and should be, but I like them ALL, even The Clone Wars.
For ME, there is more that gave me the thrill I get from Star Wars in AOTC & ROTS than in TLJ, and, the things I don't like about TLJ bother me more than the things I don't like about AOTC & ROTS.
If you feel differently that's great. I have no beef with that.
Personally, Leia flying through space, anyone can use the force, the ridiculous "plot" of the First Order chasing the Resistance through space, Rey's mastering of the force without training... all these things bother me more than Hayden Christianson's wooden acting, trade negotiations, Lucas' bad dialogue, etc... bothered me.
All that said, I'll still be buying the bluray and rewatching it many times in the future. It won't take many times for me to ignore the things I don't like and focus on the things I enjoy. Just like with Phantom Menace...
In fairness to Hayden Christensen, I think he was told to act like that. Ewen McGregor did an interview with Total Film a couple of years ago and mentioned that Lucas wanted Anakin to have a similar speech pattern to Darth Vader. Which is all well and good for keeping continuity but it made him sound very unnatural. The dialogue didn't help either. But I kind of liked his portrayal in Revenge of the Sith. I think that's a very underrated Star Wars movie that suffered for being part of the prequel trilogy.
I'm actually surprised no one has taken me to task (yet) for ranking AOTC higher than ROTS, as, this is a VERY unpopular opinion.
But, that's ALL it is, an opinion.
To each their own. I actually thought that Attack of the Clones was the worst movie in the series. Phantom Menace had a cool looking villain (fair enough, he didn't actually do much) and the pod racing scene. AOTC was a bit 'meh' in comparison. Although if it was on TV, I'd probably watch it. |
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kpowers
|
djThunderfunk said:
kpowers said:
Not even close, Jar-Jar worse Sci-Fi character ever
Since both characters suck, it doesn't matter that we disagree.
If they introduced Jar-Jar Binks in Clone Wars I know that would be a factor which you would complain about.
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djThunderfunk
|
EmmaMcG said:
djThunderfunk said:
I'm actually surprised no one has taken me to task (yet) for ranking AOTC higher than ROTS, as, this is a VERY unpopular opinion.
But, that's ALL it is, an opinion.
To each their own. I actually thought that Attack of the Clones was the worst movie in the series. Phantom Menace had a cool looking villain (fair enough, he didn't actually do much) and the pod racing scene. AOTC was a bit 'meh' in comparison. Although if it was on TV, I'd probably watch it.
I think AOTC being the worst of the 9 main movies is the popular opinion. I just got so much enjoyment from the few scenes I mentioned above, that I disagree. That said, I get it...
Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors. |
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SquirrelMeat 
|
djThunderfunk said:
EmmaMcG said:
djThunderfunk said:
I enjoyed them more, that is all the criteria I need for my own personal ranking. No?
#'s 4-10 on my list all have issues and fall short of what I think Star Wars can and should be, but I like them ALL, even The Clone Wars.
For ME, there is more that gave me the thrill I get from Star Wars in AOTC & ROTS than in TLJ, and, the things I don't like about TLJ bother me more than the things I don't like about AOTC & ROTS.
If you feel differently that's great. I have no beef with that.
Personally, Leia flying through space, anyone can use the force, the ridiculous "plot" of the First Order chasing the Resistance through space, Rey's mastering of the force without training... all these things bother me more than Hayden Christianson's wooden acting, trade negotiations, Lucas' bad dialogue, etc... bothered me.
All that said, I'll still be buying the bluray and rewatching it many times in the future. It won't take many times for me to ignore the things I don't like and focus on the things I enjoy. Just like with Phantom Menace...
In fairness to Hayden Christensen, I think he was told to act like that. Ewen McGregor did an interview with Total Film a couple of years ago and mentioned that Lucas wanted Anakin to have a similar speech pattern to Darth Vader. Which is all well and good for keeping continuity but it made him sound very unnatural. The dialogue didn't help either. But I kind of liked his portrayal in Revenge of the Sith. I think that's a very underrated Star Wars movie that suffered for being part of the prequel trilogy.
I'm actually surprised no one has taken me to task (yet) for ranking AOTC higher than ROTS, as, this is a VERY unpopular opinion.
But, that's ALL it is, an opinion.
I have a soft spot for AOTC. On my list it comes above ROTJ, let alone ROTS. . |
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kpowers
|
djThunderfunk said:
My ranking for the 10 theatrical Star Wars movies:
01 - Star Wars (aka A New Hope)
02 - The Empire Strikes Back
03 - Rogue One
04 - Return Of The Jedi
05 - The Force Awakens
06 - Attack Of The Clones
07 - Revenge Of The Sith
08 - The Last Jedi
09 - The Phantom Menace
10 - The Clone Wars
oh wait a second the Clone Wars is that kiddie CGI movie, got it mixed up with attack of the clones. Don't really consider apart of the series even though it was released in the theaters. With that said you have The Phatom Menace at the bottom of the live action films which I agree with you  |
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djThunderfunk
|
SquirrelMeat said:
djThunderfunk said:
I'm actually surprised no one has taken me to task (yet) for ranking AOTC higher than ROTS, as, this is a VERY unpopular opinion.
But, that's ALL it is, an opinion.
I have a soft spot for AOTC. On my list it comes above ROTJ, let alone ROTS.
Cool!
Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors. |
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djThunderfunk
|
kpowers said:
djThunderfunk said:
My ranking for the 10 theatrical Star Wars movies:
01 - Star Wars (aka A New Hope)
02 - The Empire Strikes Back
03 - Rogue One
04 - Return Of The Jedi
05 - The Force Awakens
06 - Attack Of The Clones
07 - Revenge Of The Sith
08 - The Last Jedi
09 - The Phantom Menace
10 - The Clone Wars
oh wait a second the Clone Wars is that kiddie CGI movie, got it mixed up with attack of the clones. Don't really consider apart of the series even though it was released in the theaters. With that said you have The Phatom Menace at the bottom of the live action films which I agree with you
It is still canon, as is the series & Rebels, but I hear you.
I consider it a part of the series more than one of the movies myself. Don't hate your neighbors. Hate the media that tells you to hate your neighbors. |
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kpowers
|
djThunderfunk said:
kpowers said:
oh wait a second the Clone Wars is that kiddie CGI movie, got it mixed up with attack of the clones. Don't really consider apart of the series even though it was released in the theaters. With that said you have The Phatom Menace at the bottom of the live action films which I agree with you
It is still canon, as is the series & Rebels, but I hear you.
I consider it a part of the series more than one of the movies myself.
Yeah but don't get me wrong, there are things I do like about Phathom Menace, like Darth Maul and Liam Nesson and Ewan McGregor were good in their roles. |
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