CarrieMpls wrote:

It can and should. There was a time in my life I'd have mostly agreed with you. And I don't anymore. It's not that difficult.


So what's your solution?

EvilWhiteMale said:

Education and self-esteem building for women, for starters. Look at where we are today with women's sexuality compared to where it was in even the 50's. At that time many were still following Frued's crazy notion that the only "mature" orgasm in a woman came from vaginal insertion. Only 50 years ago, they were still projecting a male's notion of how sex "should" be onto how a woman "should" have an orgasm. No doctor today would agree with that. It's now common knowledge that very few women can actually experience orgasm without clitoral stimulation.
I also believe in the theory that if women were virtually guaranteed orgasm in every sexual encounter the way men have been through the ages, they would be just as "after" sex as men are generally seen as. If we keep teaching women how to please themselves (and show their partners how to please them), I think women's attitudes towards sex will change drastically. And men will naturally follow along.


typos...
[This message was edited Tue Apr 15 19:38:36 PDT 2003 by CarrieMpls]

So, you're suggesting some sort of new sexual revolution?

Exactly. The last one came about when the pill became readily available and women could finally(!) control whether or not they became pregnant. Women were finally able to have sex just for pleasure. As future generations of women are more educated about their bodies, they'll be more secure about their sexual desires, they'll demand better sex, and get better sex in return. And the better the sex, the more we'll want.

CarrieMpls said:

(pulling out road maps to calculate just how far Minn. is from La)

CarriMpls wrote:

Exactly. The last one came about when the pill became readily available and women could finally(!) control whether or not they became pregnant. Women were finally able to have sex just for pleasure. As future generations of women are more educated about their bodies, they'll be more secure about their sexual desires, they'll demand better sex, and get better sex in return. And the better the sex, the more we'll want.

Of course we don't need the major jump in population, nor the massive amount of abortions.

Crazyhorse wrote:

(pulling out road maps to calculate just how far Minn. is from La)

While you're at it, get me a map from NY to Minn. also.

crazyhorse said:

You're right. My main argument is against having no respect for these women. Again, it's not degrading if no one's looking down on you for it. And it's not degrading if you're truly happy and don't give a damn what people think. I don't think porn in and of itself is a bad thing. (Just like I don't think having sex with whomever you feel like whenever you feel like as long as it's safe, consensual, etc is a bad thing.) In fact there's a small movement of woman-centric porn emerging. Women are just starting to become consumers in the industry. We just look for different things in our porn, I guess.

As for drug abuse and the women who feel trapped into a position where selling their bodies is their only way of making it in the world and they hate it, well, it comes back to education and raising our children to have self-esteem, believe in themselves, etc. Not an easy answer.

As for a maps to Mpls, you're on your own.

Ya know, I don't really look down on women who do porn, I just wouldn't want to be with one who does it. And I don't see anything wrong with that, cuz most women wouldn't want to be with a male porn star.

I always felt everyone should do whatever it takes to make themselves happy as long as no one is being hurt in the process. People should do porn if they want to, but that's not what I want for my family.

CarrieMpls said:

Carrie, you are ROCKING this thread, girl

EvilWhiteMale said:

I'm surprised by your patience, not because of her message, but because of the way she reacted to you. It would make me very angry.

Imagine you're her boyfriend, or her husband! No doubt she has a lot of experience with men treating her as dirt.

I think she is in a viscious circle, when it comes to her relation with men. She needs to get out of that, but flees into culture-theoretical discussions.

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[This message was edited Wed Apr 16 10:01:41 PDT 2003 by LillianLaughs]

LillianLaughs wrote:

I'm surprised by your patience, not because of her message, but because of the way she reacted to you. It would make me very angry.

Not at all, I had a great time. See, she was the angry one, so I just played upon that and made her more angry by challenging her. I love pushing buttons like that.

Imagine you're her boyfriend, or her husband! No doubt she has a lot of experience with men treating her as dirt.

She's kinda butch and dykie, so I don't think she's much into dating men.

I think she is in a viscious circle, when it comes to her relation with men. She needs to get out of that, but flees into culture-theoretical discussions.

She's just an angry broad who needs to yell about stupid shit in order to feel important. She's a bitter old hag.

EvilWhiteMale said:

So if you're not looking down on anyone, there's really nothing degrading about it.



Whee! We come to an agreement.

What was the original arguement?

Not sure, let's start over.

EvilWhiteMale said:

Exactly!