OH.SHIT!!! THE.WAR.IS.ON!!!!! I'll wait to post my comments tomorrow in case others haven't watched tonight's episode yet.

Now that was an intense episode, on so many levels

[Edited 8/20/17 20:24pm]

[Edited 8/20/17 21:56pm]

Let's get to it:

1. It was predictable that Jon and Dany were going to end up falling for each other, but can Bran get to Jon early enough for him to discover his true parentage before he and Dany consummate their newfound love for each other?

2. Sansa is pissing me off. Her envy of Arya and still having Littlefinger's slithering ass hanging around her is clouding her judgement.

3. Speaking of Arya...umm Sansa better not fuck with her.

4. Again speaking of Arya, are we going to see a reunion between her and Gendry? I sure hope so.

5. I was dying laughing when Tormound and the Hound were discussing Brienne...Tormound is smitten while the Hound was clearly annoyed (since she beat the hell out of him).

6. I can't say enough how fast these ravens are this season.

7. I was so nervous with Jon and co. fighting the white walkers and their chances looking grim. If Jon was to be killed off for good, I was going to be completely done with this show.

8. Speaking of Jon, those eyes of his are electric, whew!!!!! That man is just too cute for his own good.

9. Poor Tyrion, it seems he just can't win. Daenerys can't help but to keep questioning his loyalty to her. And now he's on this trip of how she should be worrying about successors and the future. I'm sort of with Dany on only worrying about the wars of the present for now.

10. Only one episode left. I just can't believe how fast this season flew.

Thought I was going to have a heart attack, last night.

So, I am just going to list some of my complaints...

- Benjen's last minute sacrifice out of nowhere to save Jon (Maybe Bran warned him, but still...) was stupid and too convenient, especially given Dany's convenience. This all felt pretty cheap to me in the end.

- Some important characters should have died. There's way too much plot armor right now and I never really feared it would happen. I think Tormund or even Jon deserved to die with the situations they put them in. Just like Bronn or Jamie deserved to die in episode 4.

- I don't understand why Beric has a conversation with Jon about "you don't look like your father". We have been told Jon does look like Ned, even more than any of his trueborn sons. This is one of the reasons Catelyn hated him so much... Why mess with the already established story just to force more Rhaegar down our throats?

- I don't really like the Winterfell plot. The Arya/Sansa conflict there feels extremely forced. Is it supposed to be? They can't really be this stupid, right?

- Jon calling Daenerys "Dany" made no sense.

- Tyrion continues to be useless and butchered.

- Why did killing the White Walker who resurrected the Wights kill them all, except for one?

I am open to hear some counters and I still enjoyed it, but I thought it was kinda forgettable compared to episodes like Hardhome. One thing I won't complain about is the "teleportation" for Dany and the ravens, I get it at this point. And another thing is the White Walkers surrounding the lake but not attacking it. It seems they were actually prepared and waiting for Dany to show up with the dragons, which supports the idea they have Greenseers? That is the best explanation for it anyway.

[Edited 8/21/17 6:57am]

FunkGetsStronger said:

So, I am just going to list some of my complaints...

- Benjen's last minute sacrifice out of nowhere to save Jon (Maybe Bran warned him, but still...) was stupid and too convenient, especially given Dany's convenience. This all felt pretty cheap to me in the end.
I too, was a bit like "huh" when Uncle Benjen came to the rescue once again but then sacrificed himself as if he was tired of living his life. I was wondering how they were going to get Jon out of this jam once again and they placed a band aid on it with Uncle Benjen. He really better be dead now because if he pops up once again, it's going to seem silly.

- Some important characters should have died. There's way too much plot armor right now and I never really feared it would happen. I think Tormund or even Jon deserved to die with the situations they put them in. Just like Bronn or Jamie deserved to die in episode 4.
I really thought either Tormund or The Hound was going die in this one. There isn't much of a storyline anymore for The Hound anyway. I mean, after this mission, where exactly is he going to be wandering off to now? Tormund's mission is to win over Brienne but silly Sansa sent her off to King's Landing.

- I don't understand why Beric has a conversation with Jon about "you don't look like your father". We have been told Jon does look like Ned, even more than any of his trueborn sons. This is one of the reasons Catelyn hated him so much... Why mess with the already established story just to force more Rhaegar down our throats?
I took as just another hint that his true parentage will be revealed to him soon but I didn't take too much stock into it.

- I don't really like the Winterfell plot. The Arya/Sansa conflict there feels extremely forced. Is it supposed to be? They can't really be this stupid, right?
I completely agree with you on this one. The fact that in the past couple of seasons Sansa has basically learned how Littlefinger operates but fell for his latest web of deceit is beyond me. It's also pretty silly that she is keeping him around. He really doesn't serve any purpose to her and his personal mission remains the same, to be on the throne himself. He's clearly throwing a monkey wrench between her and Arya so that he can take Winterfell for himself. That was his whole motive for marrying her off to the Boltons in the first place.

- Jon calling Daenerys "Dany" made no sense.
He likes her.

- Tyrion continues to be useless and butchered.
I don't quite get his plan to bring a white walker to Cersei because I feel like she isn't going to care one way or the other and have some sort chess move waiting for all of them...but I'm hoping that Tyrion has some sort of chess move incorporated into all of this that hasn't been revealed yet.

- Why did killing the White Walker who resurrected the Wights kill them all, except for one?
That's a mystery that all in internet land is trying to figure out because if this was the case, then why didn't it happen when Jon killed one of the Night King's chief's at the battle of Hardhome?

I am open to hear some counters and I still enjoyed it, but I thought it was kinda forgettable compared to episodes like Hardhome. One thing I won't complain about is the "teleportation" for Dany and the ravens, I get it at this point. And another thing is the White Walkers surrounding the lake but not attacking it. It seems they were actually prepared and waiting for Dany to show up with the dragons, which supports the idea they have Greenseers? That is the best explanation for it anyway.

[Edited 8/21/17 6:57am]

[Edited 8/21/17 7:34am]

Spoiler Alert.


I died a thousand deaths this episode. That was rough and nail biting.



I guess they didn't kill off any main characters because of the BIG kill, that's been a social media "myth" for so long. I started to mention it a couple of weeks ago and then thought against because there was nothing in the book to back it up beyond a mention of it being a myth and I thought it would be just too convenient in making tensions worse, yet they did it. Now we have an Ice Dragon. Poor baby. So will Winterfell be the first to be leveled?

I swear to gawd I thought during the scene with Dany and Jon the space around them would fill with those tiny white butterflies fluttering about. I was singing to myself, "The sound of music", they were so corny, they were cute and it was kind of nice to see it mutual even though we all knew it was going to happen.


I think it was a good sign that Tyrion still has Dany's ear. She's still going to be lead by her own convictions but at least she does listen. Leery as she may be she still listens. And with this new turn of events and now that she's seen the real threat with her own eyes, she's more focused less vengeful.

What's with the addition of the East Watch in the opening credits?

I'm really confused on what Arya was trying to do with Sansa. Is she so angry that she's having a hard time restraining herself? Was she trying to warn Sansa that all someone needs is her "face" as their front, as in Littlefinger is using her more as a puppet? I've never gotten the impression that Arya was ever envious of Sansa, but that scene seemed so significant.

The band of brothers.

FunkGetsStronger said:

1 I don't really like the Winterfell plot. The Arya/Sansa conflict there feels extremely forced. Is it supposed to be? They can't really be this stupid, right?

2 Jon calling Daenerys "Dany" made no sense.


3 Why did killing the White Walker who resurrected the Wights kill them all, except for one?

1) They are different people now, so it makes sense they are clashing as individual people, rather than sisters raised together. Arya has a different motive somewhere, and we'll see it play out soon. I think she challenged Sansa to get her reaction, not to crucify her.

2) It seems weird for sure. But maybe he was making the first move.

3) It's a bit like vampires. The one that did not die was possibly from another clan of the dead. That one had a different walker turn him. He wasn't with his original clan.

FunkGetsStronger said:

And another thing is the White Walkers surrounding the lake but not attacking it.

The White Walkers did attack the lake. They just waited for the surface to freeze again so they could walk across and not plunge to the bottom by the hundreds like they did the first time.

The bigger question could be why was the lake ice strong enough to support the army the second time and not the first?

Arya actually gave Sansa the dagger that Bran gave to her.


Powers and abilities

The Night King possesses a number of supernatural powers or abilities – it is not, at present, clear how many of these are unique to him, or if other White Walkers possess some of these.

White Walker conversion

The Night King can turn a human baby into a White Walker by pressing the tip of his finger to the baby's cheek. The child's skin will begin to pale and its eyes will turn the same blue as the other White Walkers.^[4]

Raising wights

The Night King can raise corpses as wights. He doesn't require physical contact to do so, and can raise thousands of wights at a single time just by lifting his arms.^[5]

Superior strength

Although he has not been observed engaging in single combat, the Night King presumably has the same enhanced strength that other White Walkers exhibit.^[5][12]

Weapon shattering

The Night King's touch can presumably shatter regular metal weapons, as with most White Walkers.^[5][12]

Marking

The Night King can mark someone so that he knows exactly where that person is, and no magical boundary can stop him from pursuing a person so marked.

Minor seismic control

The Night King can cause fissures in the ground.

Detect warg

The Night King seems to be able to sense when animals are controlled by a warg, just like he was able to spot Bran in his vision. When Bran was scouting beyond the wall using a flock of ravens, the Night King looks the flock and Bran was pulled out of his warging immediately. Whether he can only sense Bran's warging due to the mark or that of any warg is yet to be revealed.^[10]

Fire resistance

Just as the White Walkers under his control, the Night King appears resistant (perhaps immune) to fire due to the extreme cold he radiates. During the Wight Hunt he is seen walking through a wall of dragon fire unharmed, his mere presence causing it to flicker and go out.^[13]

2 things I find disturbing, the Night King touched Bran in a vision so does that mean he's tracking Bran? I did notice the King, not so much walk through the dragon fire but kind of extinquished the flames in his path, so what are the consequences of the battle of the dragons?

TrivialPursuit said:

FunkGetsStronger said:

1 I don't really like the Winterfell plot. The Arya/Sansa conflict there feels extremely forced. Is it supposed to be? They can't really be this stupid, right?

2 Jon calling Daenerys "Dany" made no sense.


3 Why did killing the White Walker who resurrected the Wights kill them all, except for one?

1) They are different people now, so it makes sense they are clashing as individual people, rather than sisters raised together. Arya has a different motive somewhere, and we'll see it play out soon. I think she challenged Sansa to get her reaction, not to crucify her.

2) It seems weird for sure. But maybe he was making the first move.

3) It's a bit like vampires. The one that did not die was possibly from another clan of the dead. That one had a different walker turn him. He wasn't with his original clan.

These were my interpretations as well.

With 2) specifically, it was a vulnerable moment for both Jon and Dany and addressing her in that way is not something he would have done at any other time. So while it was unexpected, it did make sense to me in retrospect.

I feel like the writing is becoming more conventional, and yes, something like Uncle Benjen's last minute save is a little silly, but OMFG that episode was exciting! Westeros suddenly seems to be the size of New York or something like that and the Sansa/Arya plot doesn't really feel right, but still... very good.

Phishanga said:

I feel like the writing is becoming more conventional, and yes, something like Uncle Benjen's last minute save is a little silly, but OMFG that episode was exciting! Westeros suddenly seems to be the size of New York or something like that and the Sansa/Arya plot doesn't really feel right, but still... very good.

And someone in the last season 7 thread said the epsiode was boring!

TrivialPursuit said:

2) It seems weird for sure. But maybe he was making the first move.

sexton said:

With 2) specifically, it was a vulnerable moment for both Jon and Dany and addressing her in that way is not something he would have done at any other time. So while it was unexpected, it did make sense to me in retrospect.

But how does Jon even know about the name "Dany"? She hasn't even mentioned it or been called it since, what, Season 1. It's feels too forced.

TrivialPursuit said:

3) It's a bit like vampires. The one that did not die was possibly from another clan of the dead. That one had a different walker turn him. He wasn't with his original clan.

That was the conclusion I eventually came too. It's just really poor writing for one to survive.

I am not how to easily quote all the responses from different users in one post, sorry.

sexton said:

The White Walkers did attack the lake. They just waited for the surface to freeze again so they could walk across and not plunge to the bottom by the hundreds like they did the first time.

That was only the wights though. The white walkers did nothing until the dragons showed up. And they are supposed to be much smarter. I refuse to believe they didn't know the land had already refrozen before The Hound threw a rock.

FunkGetsStronger said:

sexton said:

The White Walkers did attack the lake. They just waited for the surface to freeze again so they could walk across and not plunge to the bottom by the hundreds like they did the first time.

That was only the wights though. The white walkers did nothing until the dragons showed up. And they are supposed to be much smarter. I refuse to believe they didn't know the land had already refrozen before The Hound threw a rock.

Why should the White Walkers go first into battle and possibly die, wiping out all they wights they turned too? That shows they are indeed much smarter to me.

FunkGetsStronger said:

sexton said:

With 2) specifically, it was a vulnerable moment for both Jon and Dany and addressing her in that way is not something he would have done at any other time. So while it was unexpected, it did make sense to me in retrospect.

But how does Jon even know about the name "Dany"? She hasn't even mentioned it or been called it since, what, Season 1. It's feels too forced.

You're assuming no one else in all the seven kingdoms was ever named Daenerys. "Dany" could just be a common nickname in this world.

Do White Walkers grow up exceedingly fast? What happened to the baby?


They aren’t indiscriminate, though: The Walkers created some sort of truce with Craster, who gave them his baby boys in return for being left in peace.



“Kill him,” Beric says, pointing toward the Night King. “He turned them all.”

[Edited 8/21/17 13:56pm]

sexton said:

Phishanga said:

I feel like the writing is becoming more conventional, and yes, something like Uncle Benjen's last minute save is a little silly, but OMFG that episode was exciting! Westeros suddenly seems to be the size of New York or something like that and the Sansa/Arya plot doesn't really feel right, but still... very good.

And someone in the last season 7 thread said the epsiode was boring!

I think it had its issues, but it certainly isn't "boring"... Also, unrelated but... I just finished "The Leftovers" and OMG, what a perfect TV show. I cried a bit at the end of the finale and I never do that. Ok, back to GoT.

Fans are starting to complain about some of these points brought up...

and what I have become conscious of are the similarities (including inherent weaknesses) to The Walking Dead. It's kind of dangerous when the two most popular shows cross over in the overlying threat style on some level... especially if the battles start to have similar flaws of jumping shark... or nuking the safe... deus ex machina.

Still, I'm excited to see the finale, because the perosnalities of all the characters are so nicely developed since this is essentially like a 60+ hour movie.




but my question is within the fiction... is the big fat pouch on the adult dragons where they store some kind of fire bile? Is this explained in the books?


Methinks I must read them soon.

The more I think about it the more I'm loving the scene between Arya and Sansa. Their eyes locked. Arya looked as if she were reading Sansa, Sansa obviously scared but kept her ground, she didn't flinch or yell out or beg. Arya handing Sansa the dagger and then immediately exposes her back. I think this will pan out to be a lot of communicating happening between the 2 of them, something that only the 2 of them could fully understand.

It was not believable, hundreds if not thousands of white walkers against 6 or so guys, and they survived them all...

214 said:

214 said:

It was not believable, hundreds if not thousands of white walkers against 6 or so guys, and they survived them all...

But dragons, walking dead people, an incestuous monarchy, and a giant the size of the Eiffel Tower is perfectly legit. But six dudes fighting off the characters from Michael Jackson's Ghosts totally takes you out of fantasy.

Night's King‏ @WightsKing

TrivialPursuit said:

214 said:

It was not believable, hundreds if not thousands of white walkers against 6 or so guys, and they survived them all...

But dragons, walking dead people, an incestuous monarchy, and a giant the size of the Eiffel Tower is perfectly legit. But six dudes fighting off the characters from Michael Jackson's Ghosts totally takes you out of fantasy.

It's because fiction makes up it's own rules, and then if it breaks it's own rules, it feels weird. In this case, the series goes out of it's way to show one on one fights as brutal, with people getting killed. It tries to make the physical effects of it's fiction realistic, for example a fictional fire from a dragon completely burns it's victims, not leaving them soot covered but alive.

In this episode, you saw a crowd all running towards them almost tumbling over each other, but then when surrounded, they somehow got to fight them off a few at a time for a while.

The more believable thing would have been similar to the scene in Lord of the Rings (Fellowship of the Ring) where they put a doorway or small passage between them that forces the attackers to filter in a few at a time.