New topic
PrintableWith enclosed private areas, I say leave smoking policies up to the property owners and let patrons assume their own risk. The free market will determine which factor is of greater importance in those places of business: the good or services being offered or a habitable environment.
But I say smoking should not only be banned but actively and heavily fined in any and all areas where public air is affected. I've got respiratory problems and... well... I sorta like being able to breathe. As some smokers mentioned, tax revenues from tobacco sales don’t sit well with me either -- not because the government is making money from an item consumers can use only in defined circumstances (I can think of many such goods - condoms, firearms, cars, alcohol), but because it’s blood money, and I generally frown at the notion of profiting from such. Still, just about every consumer good is taxed, and I hate to say it, but given the problems of the world, smoker's rights just lag WAY behind the preservation of public air quality in the grand scheme of things to me.  [This message was edited Tue Apr 8 19:36:58 PDT 2003 by Lammastide] Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
Love the smoking bans 
Love considerate smokers
Love meat in my place    I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CalhounSq said: Love the smoking meat in my place
 ...
 ...
 ...
 ... Mr. Ellis Dee-licious, the Official NPGigolo 
Candy Dulfer is my boo...  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I love the ban (being a non-smoker) but I also feel that smokers have rights too. It is legal to smoke.
I think if a smoker wants to open a smoking bar, for smokers to come and enjoy a good smoke with other smokers, smoke all day and all night, they should be able to do so. In California, they can not. I don't smoke, don't like to smell it, don't like it in my clothes etc. My choice is to go to smokeless places. Smokers, if they choose, should also have a place to go, that's full of smoke so they can puff away. I have no problem with that. The state should not ban or deny smoking clubs, bars, etc. It works both ways my  ---------------------------------
 Funny and charming as usual | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
matt said: TheMax said: Finally, what about the "rights" of smokers? Sorry, but smoking is not a constitutional right. On the contrary, smokers have no protected status under existing laws. If you're an employer, you can deny a job to a smoker.
Not in Indiana. "An employer may not: (1) require, as a condition of employment, an employee or prospective employee to refrain from using; or (2) discriminate against an employee with respect to: (A) the employee's compensation and benefits; or (B) terms and conditions of employment; based on the employee's use of; tobacco products outside the course of the employee's or prospective employee's employment." Ind. Code § 22-5-4-1. (However, the statute "does not apply to an employer that is: (1) a church; (2) a religious organization; or (3) a school or business conducted by a church or religious organization." Ind. Code § 22-5-4-4.) IMHO this is a silly law... employers are generally free to refuse to hire someone for any reason whatsoever, and I don't see why smokers should have any special protection... but given that this state seems to be full of nicotine addicts, I'm not surprised. I'm not aware of any similar law in California. But then again, you probably don't have bans on smoking in your restaurants and bars. Give it time. There's hope for Indiana too. "When they tell me 2 walk a straight line, I put on crooked shoes" | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I'm from California and a smoker and all I can say is I cannot wait to go to London.
 I mean, like, where is the sun? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EllisDee said: CalhounSq said: Love the smoking meat in my place
...
...
...
...Hello, is it meat you're looking for? I LAUGHED when I saw your boy on American Idol tonight  I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
 @ the fact that this thread is still going. and that anyone but the business owner has the right to tell me i can or can't smoke in a bar or restaurant. that's really all i have to say about it. and i think it stands on its own. so anywho... move this over the P&R forum so i can ignore it  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SuperC said: Good No smoke in public places. What you do in your home is your own damn business.
That'll be next. We'll have wives suing their smoking husbands for attempted murder. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Lammastide said: With enclosed private areas, I say leave smoking policies up to the property owners and let patrons assume their own risk. The free market will determine which factor is of greater importance in those places of business: the good or services being offered or a habitable environment.
But I say smoking should not only be banned but actively and heavily fined in any and all areas where public air is affected. I've got respiratory problems and... well... I sorta like being able to breathe. As some smokers mentioned, tax revenues from tobacco sales don’t sit well with me either -- not because the government is making money from an item consumers can use only in defined circumstances (I can think of many such goods - condoms, firearms, cars, alcohol), but because it’s blood money, and I generally frown at the notion of profiting from such. Still, just about every consumer good is taxed, and I hate to say it, but given the problems of the world, smoker's rights just lag WAY behind the preservation of public air quality in the grand scheme of things to me.
[This message was edited Tue Apr 8 19:36:58 PDT 2003 by Lammastide] Agree, smoking taxes are definitely blood money. Our government loves the revenue, they just don't like the smell. The taxes on cigarettes eclipse taxes on just about anything else in this country including condoms, firearms, cars, and alchohol. If the government actually stood behind it's facade of trying to protect non-smokers they would actually use this money to provide assistance to help people quit smoking, like they're supposed to. They don't. I'm also baffled why my insurance doesn't cover getting a prescription or assistance to help ease the addiction. The government needs to ween itself off this income before they tell us to ween ourselves off cigarettes. If they continue raising these taxes its eventually gonna be cheaper to just smoke weed or crack. And why exactly are these refered to as "sin" taxes when there is supposed to be a seperation of church and state in this country. Seems to me if they want to be integrated into our laws they (churches) should start paying taxes like the rest of us. [This message was edited Wed Apr 9 9:33:52 PDT 2003 by Tom] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
yeah...
they saved you from secondhand smoke but who will save us from you drunkdriving fools??? I AM King BAD a.k.a. BAD,
YOU EITHER WANNA BE ME, OR BE JUST LIKE ME  ™ | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
| Sr. Moderator
|
TheMax said: But then again, you probably don't have bans on smoking in your restaurants and bars. Give it time. There's hope for Indiana too.
Bloomington (home of Indiana University and probably the most liberal city in the state) did enact a smoking ban back around 1994 for restaurants and bars. There was a "grandfather clause" exemption for businesses that were already in operation; however, I've heard that the city just amended the ordinance to phase out the grandfather clause over the next few years. Also, some restaurants that were exempt under the grandfather clause chose to go smoke-free voluntarily... I worked for one that did so, and customer comment cards were something like 12 to 1 in favor of our decision. Indianapolis is currently considering a smoking ban for restaurants and bars... aside from general health concerns, it's been suggested that smoking is inconsistent with our status as the unofficial amateur sports capital of the world. We'll see if it gets anywhere. Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
moderatorCalhounSq said: EllisDee said: CalhounSq said: Love the smoking meat in my place
...
...
...
...Hello, is it meat you're looking for? I LAUGHED when I saw your boy on American Idol tonight ooh.. you beat me at my own game... :LOL:... that was a good one... did he sing anything..? i can't believe i missed that... i absolutely hate that show, so i never watch it... and then i have everyone telling me, "did you see gladys knight on american idol"...  ... i'm gonna crack eventually and just watch the shit...
did watching him make you feel all tingly and dirty... ...
 ... damn u edit...[This message was edited Wed Apr 9 14:42:25 PDT 2003 by EllisDee] Mr. Ellis Dee-licious, the Official NPGigolo
Candy Dulfer is my boo... | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I think it'll put a few more years on our lives. It'll be interesting to see what happens here in NYC. "You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "
Al Pacino- Scarface | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I think smoking is stupid and disgusting and it annoys me when I have to breathe other peoples bad habits. I have asthma and can barely tolerate bars and clubs, and I wish more of them would be nonsmoking.
That said, it should be up to the business owners to decide if they want to allow smoking. It's none of the governments business and not an appropriate thing to legislate (and this from the keyboard of a leftie! ). Bar owners have every right to allow whatever (legal) behaviors they wish to allow, smokers have every right do frequent such establishments, and I have every right not to. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
| Sr. Moderator
|
tackam said: I think smoking is stupid and disgusting and it annoys me when I have to breathe other peoples bad habits. I have asthma and can barely tolerate bars and clubs, and I wish more of them would be nonsmoking.
I met my dad last night for drinks and dinner at a nonsmoking brewpub... it was nice to come home and not have to take a shower and change my clothes. That said, it should be up to the business owners to decide if they want to allow smoking. It's none of the governments business and not an appropriate thing to legislate (and this from the keyboard of a leftie!
). Bar owners have every right to allow whatever (legal) behaviors they wish to allow, smokers have every right do frequent such establishments, and I have every right not to.I'm not sure I follow this reasoning. Your argument seems to be that behavior that is legal in a private home should also be legal in a privately-owned business that's generally open to the public. Well, Pee-Wee Herman was certainly free to rent an adult movie at the video store and masturbate in his own home, but he chose to do it in an adult movie theater instead, and we know what happened to him. Anyway, I'm still undecided about smoking bans in bars. On one hand, I'd prefer it simply because I'm a non-smoker and find tobacco smoke annoying, and I believe that state and local governments have the power to legislate for the general health and welfare. For example, if I open a hamburger restaurant, nobody is going to object if I get shut down for serving undercooked beef tainted with E. coli. On the other hand, being exposed to secondhand smoke for one night (or even several nights) probably isn't going to hurt the health of most people. And while I think the connection between drinking and smoking is not as strong as some people would have you believe (plenty of people, including myself, consume adult beverages but don't smoke), I do recognize that there's something of a tradition of the two going hand-in-hand. Right now I'm willing to tolerate smoke in order to enjoy the music I like in a club setting, and if I have to take a quick shower afterwards and change clothes, so be it. Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
THIS WASN'T SECONDHAND SMOKE
WARNING GRAPHIC PICS BEYOND THIS POINT http://www.expressen.nu/h...age007.jpg http://www.expressen.nu/h...age014.jpg NOW...BEFORE THE BAR http://www.expressen.nu/h...age003.jpg http://www.expressen.nu/h...age002.jpg http://www.expressen.nu/h...age001.jpg I AM King BAD a.k.a. BAD,
YOU EITHER WANNA BE ME, OR BE JUST LIKE ME ™ | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
its too bad that they are going to this extream with this banning
its the pre solution to the legalization of Mary Jane, by banning smoking ebvery where including your own home, and out side. we non smokers do have rights but a total banning is the worst thing that can happen, there shopuld be seperate areas in resturaunts , in bars the owners should be able to choose , and if you dont want to be around the smoke go to one that doesnt allow smoking... | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |