OnlyNDaUsa said:

Dasein said:

Aw, c'mon! The novels are not canon! Yoda should have beat Dooku's ass like he owed him
rent. Anakin losing to Dooku in round one but easily defeating him in round two simply illustrates
Anakin's growth. If Anakin defeated Dooku so easily, and we would never claim him a greater
Jedi than Yoda, then Yoda, for the sake of continuity, should have beat the brakes off of Dooku
during their battle. But notice I said "continuity" in the context of George Lucas screenwriting,
which is a contradiction in terms.

That is a great point about Yoda fighting Palpatine to a draw post Order 66. However, if Windu
is beating Palpatine, then we must re-assess his abilities/talents as a Jedi.

Essentially, my beef with Yoda's depictions in the film's canon is an indication of Lucas' untidy
and unsystematic approach to clearly delineating Jedi/Sith abilities. I mean, Obi-Wan struggles
against Dooku but defeats Anakin who kicked Dooku's ass with ease! The Force is one arbitrary
muthafucka!

Maybe Palpy ordered Dooku to lose?

If it ain't mentioned in the films, it didn't happen!

But the look of horror/surprise on Dooku's face when Palpatine instructs Anakin to kill him makes
me think Palpatine didn't order Dooku to lose.

If I was force sensitive, the last order I would belong to are the Siths who condone apprentices
murking their master. But I see through the lies of the Jedi, so I would be on some other shit.

Dasein said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Maybe Palpy ordered Dooku to lose?

If it ain't mentioned in the films, it didn't happen!

But the look of horror/surprise on Dooku's face when Palpatine instructs Anakin to kill him makes
me think Palpatine didn't order Dooku to lose.

If I was force sensitive, the last order I would belong to are the Siths who condone apprentices
murking their master. But I see through the lies of the Jedi, so I would be on some other shit.

that is WHY I think he did! He was like "what?" And remember Plapy did "warn" them he was a Sith! So there was some baiting going on.


another possible issue is they had a year or two or whatever it was to train up against him?

Dasein said:

Aw, c'mon! The novels are not canon! Yoda should have beat Dooku's ass like he owed him rent. Anakin losing to Dooku in round one but easily defeating him in round two simply illustrates Anakin's growth. If Anakin defeated Dooku so easily, and we would never claim him a greater Jedi than Yoda, then Yoda, for the sake of continuity, should have beat the brakes off of Dooku during their battle. But notice I said "continuity" in the context of George Lucas screenwriting, which is a contradiction in terms.

Remember though -- Dooku basically moved to kill Anakin and Obi-Wan to escape from Yoda, who was cornering him. After Greenie says, "fought well you have, my old Padawan," he was moving in to finish him. And Dooku knew he was beat . . . and knew he'd accomplished what he needed to, to force the Order/Republic to send in the Clones.

Yoda didn't finish Dooku to save his Franchise Players.

That is a great point about Yoda fighting Palpatine to a draw post Order 66.

However, if Windu is beating Palpatine, then we must re-assess his abilities/talents as a Jedi.

Once again . . . remember the movie. Master Windu didn't go there alone. He went with a posse of highly-skilled Jedi. Because Windu KNEW he couldn't take Sidious alone. It was a short -- and terribly staged -- battle, seeing that the Jedi he beat were shown to be very formidable in the (canon) Clone Wars series that preceded it. But it presumably sapped Sidious of some energy.

Yoda faced him alone, because he didn't have a choice.

Essentially, my beef with Yoda's depictions in the film's canon is an indication of Lucas' untidy and unsystematic approach to clearly delineating Jedi/Sith abilities. I mean, Obi-Wan struggles against Dooku but defeats Anakin who kicked Dooku's ass with ease?!

Anakin arguably beat himself. Unlike his predecessors, Maul and Tyrannus, and his master, Sidious, Darth Vader didn't dictate the battleground, or, for that matter, have any strategy for taking out his opponents. He was jealous, angry, and drunk with rage. Though Vader was far more powerful than either of his predecessors, he wasn't as disciplined.

That aside, Lucas wasn't overly concerned with character continuity between the films and the EU/canon. He was concerned with how the films played out, and the execution of that was spotty. That made the continuity issues even worse.

[Edited 1/24/17 12:27pm]

[Edited 1/24/17 15:48pm]

Dasein said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Maybe Palpy ordered Dooku to lose?

If it ain't mentioned in the films, it didn't happen!

But the look of horror/surprise on Dooku's face when Palpatine instructs Anakin to kill him makes
me think Palpatine didn't order Dooku to lose.

If I was force sensitive, the last order I would belong to are the Siths who condone apprentices
murking their master. But I see through the lies of the Jedi, so I would be on some other shit.

what did he say before he was beheaded? Treachery of the Sith?

He knew Sidious was trying to convert Anakin, what did he think was going to happen to him?

namepeace said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Far from it.

1. The movie did the fight a disservice. If you read the novel, Yoda was tearing him up and about to take him down. Of course for the sake of the story Darth Tyranus had to survive.

But also remember how easily he beat Anakins ass in that same movie.

There is a Star Wars novel:Dark Rendezvous(not a Prince outtake) where Count Dooku actually reaches out to Master Yoda for redemption. But they end up fighting and the Count is reminded why Yoda was his teacher.

That . . . and Yoda was about 850 years old when he fought Dooku. As it played out in the film, Dooku escaped by making Yoda choose between finishing Dooku off or saving 2 of the Order's Franchise Players.

2. Mace Windu fought Palpatine before Order 66. Master Yoda fought him with the weight of all the losses he felt and was feeling at that moment. The novel reveals more to why he left when he did. And of course for the sake of the story Darth Sidious had to survive.

AGAIN . . . Yoda was about 850 years old when he fought Sidious. Now, he underestimated Sidious' power. And he allowed Sidious to dictate the battleground, though he had little choice.

3. I don't understand that much either. But that cannot be held only to Master Yoda. But there is a way for a force sensitive to hide their presence in the force. Which means they also cannot access it that moment

It's a fairly simple explanation -- Yoda's tragic flaw in the prequels was shared by the whole Order. He operated from FEAR.

- Fear of a little boy with messianic power, which caused him to shun him, then isolate him with a woefully inexperienced master, when the move should have been for YODA TO TRAIN HIM HIMSELF.

- Fear of allowing the Republic to know that the Jedi did not know -- or hid -- the existence of the Clone Project and Sifo Dyas' role in it, which of course would mean admitting the Sith had outmaneuvered them.

- Fear of the closeness of the Anakin-Palpatine friendship, so much so that Yoda greenlighted a project for Anakin to spy on Palpatine for the Council - not a Jediesque move.

- Fear of, as Sidious said in III, losing his power.

Ypda hints at this fear when he says in I, "hard to see the Dark Side is" and in II, "the shroud of the Dark Side has fallen." It's also a theme of the final episodes of Clone Wars.

[Edited 1/24/17 11:05am]

It never made sense that they would have Obiwan train him. Someone so 'important' and possibly dangerous I would have had him under Master Yoda the whole time..

Dasein said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Far from it.

1. The movie did the fight a disservice. If you read the novel, Yoda was tearing him up and about to take him down. Of course for the sake of the story Darth Tyranus had to survive.

But also remember how easily he beat Anakins ass in that same movie.

There is a Star Wars novel:Dark Rendezvous(not a Prince outtake) where Count Dooku actually reaches out to Master Yoda for redemption. But they end up fighting and the Count is reminded why Yoda was his teacher.

2. Mace Windu fought Palpatine before Order 66. Master Yoda fought him with the weight of all the losses he felt and was feeling at that moment. The novel reveals more to why he left when he did. And of course for the sake of the story Darth Sidious had to survive.

3. I don't understand that much either. But that cannot be held only to Master Yoda. But there is a way for a force sensitive to hide their presence in the force. Which means they also cannot access it that moment.

[Edited 1/24/17 11:05am]

Aw, c'mon! The novels are not canon! Yoda should have beat Dooku's ass like he owed him
rent. Anakin losing to Dooku in round one but easily defeating him in round two simply illustrates
Anakin's growth. If Anakin defeated Dooku so easily, and we would never claim him a greater
Jedi than Yoda, then Yoda, for the sake of continuity, should have beat the brakes off of Dooku
during their battle. But notice I said "continuity" in the context of George Lucas screenwriting,
which is a contradiction in terms.

That is a great point about Yoda fighting Palpatine to a draw post Order 66. However, if Windu
is beating Palpatine, then we must re-assess his abilities/talents as a Jedi.

Essentially, my beef with Yoda's depictions in the film's canon is an indication of Lucas' untidy
and unsystematic approach to clearly delineating Jedi/Sith abilities. I mean, Obi-Wan struggles
against Dooku but defeats Anakin who kicked Dooku's ass with ease?! The Force is one arbitrary
muthafucka!

[Edited 1/24/17 12:27pm]

If they would have stuck to the novel. He would have

But Sidious & Dooku were using that opportunity to lure Anakin, the shock on Tyranus part was that he was the sacrifice.

re-assess who's ability?
vaapad technique

LOL yeah it can seem a bit messy at times. He probably should have just let the mystery of it all keep us out of these lanes of questioning. Just give a novel.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

and then Star WarS IX the Last Jedi 2: Endor Boogaloo

..LOL..Yep....All I want for Christmas this year is for Finn & Rey to be siblings....

The 3 Films that Influenced The Making of Star Wars: The Last Jedi http://epicstream.com/new...-Last-Jedi

As it turned out, Anakin was the Chosen One, but not the way the Jedi thought. By killing Palpatine and saving his son, Anakin brought balance to the Force. Ep. I-VI are about his rise, fall and redemption.

uPtoWnNY said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

lust said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Attack (a Strike) of the Clones (Empire)

The Empire (clones) Strike (attack) Back

The clones in episode two was an army created By the republic to fight the droid army. There was no empire yet. At that stage they were the good guys. (Until the start of the empire and order 66 in Ep 3) The storm troopers by the time of the original trilogy and therefore Empire Strikes Back were no longer clones.

The clones were created to serve Palp/Darth Sid... so they were always the bad guys. The clone war was a hoax. Palp knew the way to gain power was to have a war so he got the trade federation to start it. (read the Prolog to the 1976 Star Wars book). So the clones seemed to be good guys but they were just following their programming.

We are not sure when the last of the clones left service. Granted it is revisionist but there are some in Rebels (i think) and some (at least one) in Rogue One.

But the clone wars was orchestrated from both sides to create an excuse to have him be elected Emperor--at which time he declares the republic to be an empire. (which you know)

OnlyNDaUsa said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

namepeace said:

It never made sense that they would have Obiwan train him. Someone so 'important' and possibly dangerous I would have had him under Master Yoda the whole time..

He seemed so shocked at the return of the Sith and the discovery of the potential Chosen One that he didn't see what needed to be done. Fear.

OldFriends4Sale said:

namepeace said:

It never made sense that they would have Obiwan train him. Someone so 'important' and possibly dangerous I would have had him under Master Yoda the whole time..

Agreed.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Dasein said:

Aw, c'mon! The novels are not canon! Yoda should have beat Dooku's ass like he owed him
rent. Anakin losing to Dooku in round one but easily defeating him in round two simply illustrates
Anakin's growth. If Anakin defeated Dooku so easily, and we would never claim him a greater
Jedi than Yoda, then Yoda, for the sake of continuity, should have beat the brakes off of Dooku
during their battle. But notice I said "continuity" in the context of George Lucas screenwriting,
which is a contradiction in terms.

That is a great point about Yoda fighting Palpatine to a draw post Order 66. However, if Windu
is beating Palpatine, then we must re-assess his abilities/talents as a Jedi.

Essentially, my beef with Yoda's depictions in the film's canon is an indication of Lucas' untidy
and unsystematic approach to clearly delineating Jedi/Sith abilities. I mean, Obi-Wan struggles
against Dooku but defeats Anakin who kicked Dooku's ass with ease?! The Force is one arbitrary
muthafucka!

[Edited 1/24/17 12:27pm]

If they would have stuck to the novel. He would have

But Sidious & Dooku were using that opportunity to lure Anakin, the shock on Tyranus part was that he was the sacrifice.

re-assess who's ability?

Mace Windu's ability for he was able to go toe-to-toe with Palpatine during their lightsaber
duel while Yoda was struggling.

namepeace said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It never made sense that they would have Obiwan train him. Someone so 'important' and possibly dangerous I would have had him under Master Yoda the whole time..

He seemed so shocked at the return of the Sith and the discovery of the potential Chosen One that he didn't see what needed to be done. Fear.

Yeah, but then that makes Dooku a fucking moron:

Siths, by nature of their order, kill each other off most treacherously. Dooku should've slept with
one eye open after joining Palpatine's ranks.

Lucas really fucked this up with his disjointed writing. As it remains, the story-line for The Sopranos
remains the most well written and cohesive arc in tv/film, in my opinion.

Dasein said:

namepeace said:

He seemed so shocked at the return of the Sith and the discovery of the potential Chosen One that he didn't see what needed to be done. Fear.

Yeah, but then that makes Dooku a . . moron:

Siths, by nature of their order, kill each other off most treacherously. Dooku should've slept with one eye open after joining Palpatine's ranks.

That's a Sith conceit. As Anakin put it in III , the Sith think inwardly, only of themselves.

Tyrannus never thought Anakin could beat him. Tyrannus, like Vader had apprentices of their own, in canon material such as Clone Wars. Both at some point tried to train an apprentice to help supplant Sidious. The last one being, arguably, Luke. But as with Tyrannus, Vader would have fallen to the new apprentice in VI if Luke had turned.

R2D2 is the last Jedi!


Want Proof!?

look at the episode titles!


The Force awakens... the last Jedi!


makes a sentence!

and who was "asleep" during VII?


R2D2!

OnlyNDaUsa said:

lust said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

R2D2 is the last Jedi!


Want Proof!?

look at the episode titles!


The Force awakens... the last Jedi!


makes a sentence!

and who was "asleep" during VII?


R2D2!

If you strike Kenny Baker down he will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.