kitbradley said:

Hey! When I read AMP last night after the first 20 minutes of the show, they only mentioned Abraham being killed. Glenn was killed later? I won't get to watch the show for another couple of weeks but I'm really bummed about Glenn.

daryl popped up and smacked negan in the face during one of negan's asshole moments and in retaliation negan gave glenn the bat.

DiamondsnPearls44 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I'm gutted. I can't believe I'm so invested in this show. It was so raw and grueling. It's one of the moments in the show where I didn't feel like it was fiction. I felt like "What if this happened in real life? What if the world collapsed, and me and the folks I love get caught in a situation with this sort of violence?"

I suppose that's a nod to the show's ability to not just tell a story, but to pull you into a moment so perfectly that you forget it is fiction.

"Suck my nuts" was great, but "I will find you" just sent me over the edge.

I said the same thing earlier to coworkers that if the world goes bad that it will be evil groups like this...just too real

genghis khan

OldFriends4Sale said:

Isn't Daryl the reason Glenn got killed? Negan said if there was any outbursts of reactions someone else was going down?

After what Negan just did, did Rick really not think it would lead to more blood spilled, after saying he was going to kill him?

If any more chore characters get killed, I suspect the show might not go on much longer.

And the last question. How does Carls' hair look so right out of the salon ready? lol

Well the show was renewed for Season 8 before this season began so it'll be on for a while.

DiamondsnPearls44 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I'm gutted. I can't believe I'm so invested in this show. It was so raw and grueling. It's one of the moments in the show where I didn't feel like it was fiction. I felt like "What if this happened in real life? What if the world collapsed, and me and the folks I love get caught in a situation with this sort of violence?"

I suppose that's a nod to the show's ability to not just tell a story, but to pull you into a moment so perfectly that you forget it is fiction.

"Suck my nuts" was great, but "I will find you" just sent me over the edge.

I said the same thing earlier to coworkers that if the world goes bad that it will be evil groups like this...just too real

They already exist don't they?

missfee said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Isn't Daryl the reason Glenn got killed? Negan said if there was any outbursts of reactions someone else was going down?

After what Negan just did, did Rick really not think it would lead to more blood spilled, after saying he was going to kill him?

If any more chore characters get killed, I suspect the show might not go on much longer.

And the last question. How does Carls' hair look so right out of the salon ready? lol

Well the show was renewed for Season 8 before this season began so it'll be on for a while.

Oh I know that,

missfee said:

DiamondsnPearls44 said:

TrivialPursuit said: I said the same thing earlier to coworkers that if the world goes bad that it will be evil groups like this...just too real

They already exist don't they?

ISIL

juarez, mexico

[Edited 10/24/16 7:12am]

Great episode!

I've read every issue of the comic and been a fan of the show from the start and I rate this episode among the best.

As much as I'm a fan, I've never been to a TWD fansite or forum, so, looking to see what people are saying about it I made the mistake of checking the comments at A/V Club & IMDB. What a fking mistake that was...

Everybody I know who watches the show knows what they're in for and loves it. So, I was surprised to see almost universal negativity among the commenters at those two sites. So many people complaining about a death that happens almost exactly as it did in the source material. In my opinion the comics are so much better than the show and the closer they align, the better.

I'm thinking the commentors at AV/Club are all 15-25 year old hipsters that guage their "coolness" by how much they hate that which most love. Am I off-base here?

Wondering, is there anyone here that is "done with the show" because of this episode?
If so, have you read the source material?

I've gotta say, Negan and Jeffrey Dean Morgan are the best thing about this show so far...

[Edited 10/24/16 7:46am]

ufoclub said:

The disconnect is that the TV show audience is not aware of or not kept up with the source material comics, and also the show emphasizes these fictional relationships with score and moments, bonding the audience to the characters as if they were real, then sadistically depicts not only their deaths but the suffering and trauma of their loved ones witnessing it. I think the show picked up an audience that was more into the human connections than the brutality or horror tropes. Those are the people that are pissed off. I think they feel trumped.

Maybe. Seems strange though all things considered.

With all the discussion and debate this summer about who would get the bat, the version in the comics was talked about alot. Most people I know who watch the show never read the books but still were aware of the Glenn/Lucille event.

Even those that had zero knowledge of source material spoilers shouldn't be surprised. One of the things about the show (just as the comics) is that any fan knows that NOBODY is safe (except maybe/maybe not on Rick & Carl). Whomever your favorite character is, eventually they will die, probably very badly...

missfee said:

DiamondsnPearls44 said:

TrivialPursuit said: I said the same thing earlier to coworkers that if the world goes bad that it will be evil groups like this...just too real

They already exist don't they?

Yes, they're called politicians.

OldFriends4Sale said:

the way they were killed was like watching something you just should not ever see in life even as brutal as life can be.
After each 1st hit there was the numbing silence...

I was up late last night, working (and because I took a nap and was wide awake). Every time I saw a video on YouTube, or a FB article, I had a big sense of dread over me. I had to keep reminding myself it was just the TV show.

XxAxX said:

missfee said:

They already exist don't they?

ISIL

juarez, mexico

[Edited 10/24/16 7:12am]

Indeed. (Boko Haram, Somali warlords, etc.)

namepeace said:

XxAxX said:

ISIL

juarez, mexico

[Edited 10/24/16 7:12am]

Indeed. (Boko Haram, Somali warlords, etc.)

right. and, if law and order were somehow disrupted i'd give america 7 days or so until law breaks down and something like the rule of negan applies. martial law/riots/economic collapse/election results lions and tigers and bears oh my

Everybody banked on one death. But the producers were banking on the twist of a second death for greater impact. Though it's being criticized in some corners, the cliffhanger had the impact the showrunners were looking for.

I've heard for a couple of years about Negan and Glenn. Kirkman spilled the beans on a game show. I've heard about the comic. Heck, there was even a tease 2 years ago with an ominous shot where Glenn picks up a bat. But JDM is so good as Negan he made a brutal, shocking impact. And Glenn's "Hold The Door" moment at the end was powerful.

A few musings:

- For all its dramatic, bleak moments, TWD finally had its "Red Wedding" moment.

- Daryl will blame himself for Glenn, but how will Negan break him? Many have tried and failed.

- Rick's going to be broken for a while. Carl doesn't seem to be affected all that much. At least until he can find numbers.

- I saw a lot of observations about Maggie's lack of emotion. She's seen her sister devoured, her father decapitated, and scores of teammates and friends die horribly. Part of her has to be numb.

- Can't wait to see how the Kingdom plays into this, and what they know about the Saviors.

namepeace said:

Everybody banked on one death. But the producers were banking on the twist of a second death for greater impact. Though it's being criticized in some corners, the cliffhanger had the impact the showrunners were looking for.

I've heard for a couple of years about Negan and Glenn. Kirkman spilled the beans on a game show. I've heard about the comic. Heck, there was even a tease 2 years ago with an ominous shot where Glenn picks up a bat. But JDM is so good as Negan he made a brutal, shocking impact. And Glenn's "Hold The Door" moment at the end was powerful.
....

The cliffhanger was good, but there was a lot of playing with fan's emotions, and a lot of bait & switch, teasing, etc. It's now time for them to step up and really dig into a story. The tricks are played at this point, for a while, and fans aren't easily manipulated anymore, at least for another season or two. I was actually surprised by Glenn's death, because many pontificating sites said they weren't doing that. But surprise surprise! I figured Abe would go, just because of his proximity to Rick, the blood on the face, etc. I do think Daryl is going to blame himself for Glenn's death, and Norman Reedus has said as much, that he thinks Daryl feels tremendous guilt.

Seeing Rick broken truly gives way for others to rise up, like Maggie or Michonne. I think Eugene might just sink into his cowardly ways again. He was sitting and crying like a child would in the scene, opposed to most others being on their knees (except Daryl who was sitting like he was ready to jump & pounce, which he did). Carl's all but grown up in this world, so he's less apt to have anxiety about stuff. It's just what he knows. There is no comparison for him, really. There is no before and after per se. Half of his life has been this. I don't think Maggie has lack of emotion, I think there's something in her that's now stirring and bubbling up now. She's galvanized by Glenn's death. And his last words to her are going to be the fire under her feet. I do still think that Rick, while broken, is devising a plan. That's just who he is - he's a cop. He's always got another motive.

TrivialPursuit said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

the way they were killed was like watching something you just should not ever see in life even as brutal as life can be.
After each 1st hit there was the numbing silence...

I was up late last night, working (and because I took a nap and was wide awake). Every time I saw a video on YouTube, or a FB article, I had a big sense of dread over me. I had to keep reminding myself it was just the TV show.

RIGHT!! I felt the same way, like this sh!t is real
That scene was ...
I mean we know someone was going to die, I like all of the people that were on their knees (except for Eugene) I know he got them to Alexandria with his lie, but he's worthless.

and we know it was going to be a brutal death

and with all that I was not ready for the reality of it.

[Edited 10/24/16 10:33am]

RIP GLENN

[Edited 10/24/16 10:46am]

Painfully beautiful vision

Andrew Lincoln as Rick Grimes, Danai Gurira as Michonne, Norman Reedus as Daryl Dixon, Alanna Masterson as Tara Chambler, Christian Serratos as Rosita Espinosa, Lennie James as Morgan Jones, Sonequa Martin-Green as Sasha Williams, Michael Cudlitz as Sgt. Abraham Ford, Steven Yeun as Glenn Rhee, Lauren Cohan as Maggie Greene, Austin Nichols as Spencer Monroe, Josh McDermitt as Dr. Eugene Porter, Ross Marquand as Aaron, and Katelyn Nacon as Enid (Photo Credit: Gene Page/AMC)

[Edited 10/24/16 10:49am]

TrivialPursuit said:

namepeace said:

The cliffhanger was good, but there was a lot of playing with fan's emotions, and a lot of bait & switch, teasing, etc. It's now time for them to step up and really dig into a story. The tricks are played at this point, for a while, and fans aren't easily manipulated anymore, at least for another season or two. I was actually surprised by Glenn's death, because many pontificating sites said they weren't doing that. But surprise surprise! I figured Abe would go, just because of his proximity to Rick, the blood on the face, etc. I do think Daryl is going to blame himself for Glenn's death, and Norman Reedus has said as much, that he thinks Daryl feels tremendous guilt.

I agree on both points underlined. The cliffhanger was a gratuitous tease, but at the same time, it did lure people into the instant shocking twist with Glenn. The pontificators convinced me too, as Glenn was one of the best characters of Asian Pacific descent ever on television and I agreed with them that the showrunners wouldn't take him away.

Seeing Rick broken truly gives way for others to rise up, like Maggie or Michonne. I think Eugene might just sink into his cowardly ways again. He was sitting and crying like a child would in the scene, opposed to most others being on their knees (except Daryl who was sitting like he was ready to jump & pounce, which he did). Carl's all but grown up in this world, so he's less apt to have anxiety about stuff. It's just what he knows. There is no comparison for him, really. There is no before and after per se. Half of his life has been this. I don't think Maggie has lack of emotion, I think there's something in her that's now stirring and bubbling up now. She's galvanized by Glenn's death. And his last words to her are going to be the fire under her feet. I do still think that Rick, while broken, is devising a plan. That's just who he is - he's a cop. He's always got another motive.

Eugene's come a ways, but he had to have been feeling doubly guilty because he's the one that conned Abraham into taking this journey at all.

I fear for Daryl, because Negan is going to work him next.

Maggie's seen all her people go this way. It was actually surprising she had anything left. Lauren Cohen turned in a great performance.

You're right. Rick's got too much "dog" in him. He'll work on getting the numbers right but I think he knows it may take a while.

That was gross.

They should all be dead by now.

I don't think that Rick is fully broken. Like TrivialPursuit said, Rick is a cop and always thinking of a plan. And as Namepeace said, it's just going to take Rick a while to devise that plan. Rick has been down before, but always seems to manage to pull himself out of it somehow. Though he maybe saying he's no longer the leader on the surface, inside, he's brewing with so much emotion, trying to process what he's done in the past, to what Negan has done to him and the crew, to how they are not only going to find their way out of this current hurdle, but also how to give Negan the proper send off too. Who knows...perhaps it will be Carl to rise as the de facto leader out of all of this.

missfee said:

Though he maybe saying he's no longer the leader on the surface, inside, he's brewing with so much emotion, trying to process what he's done in the past, to what Negan has done to him and the crew, to how they are not only going to find their way out of this current hurdle, but also how to give Negan the proper send off too. Who knows...perhaps it will be Carl to rise as the de facto leader out of all of this.

The dark horses for new leadership may be in the Kingdom right now -- Carol and Morgan. They actually make a good team; they both share the same flaws . . . too much lone wolf in them.

namepeace said:

missfee said:

Though he maybe saying he's no longer the leader on the surface, inside, he's brewing with so much emotion, trying to process what he's done in the past, to what Negan has done to him and the crew, to how they are not only going to find their way out of this current hurdle, but also how to give Negan the proper send off too. Who knows...perhaps it will be Carl to rise as the de facto leader out of all of this.

The dark horses for new leadership may be in the Kingdom right now -- Carol and Morgan. They actually make a good team; they both share the same flaws . . . too much lone wolf in them.

Im thinking the same about Morgan and Carol.

sweet jesus that was intense my heart was racing all through the episode.

only thing that kept me from crying was imagining rick and negan f*cking. you
know, since negan dragged rick into the camper there was this voice inside me
that kept whispering 'ooh here it comes, this is gonna be hot'

that's probably more sick than the episode itself. but hey, it got me through it

now i just need carol to get herself together and come barging in, kicking all
sorts of saviour ass.

DiamondsnPearls44 said:

namepeace said:

The dark horses for new leadership may be in the Kingdom right now -- Carol and Morgan. They actually make a good team; they both share the same flaws . . . too much lone wolf in them.

Im thinking the same about Morgan and Carol.

^this

Just been on in the UK. Avoided spoilers. Good grief it was so harrowing to watch.

IstenSzek said:

sweet jesus that was intense my heart was racing all through the episode.

only thing that kept me from crying was imagining rick and negan f*cking. you
know, since negan dragged rick into the camper there was this voice inside me
that kept whispering 'ooh here it comes, this is gonna be hot'

that's probably more sick than the episode itself. but hey, it got me through it

now i just need carol to get herself together and come barging in, kicking all
sorts of saviour ass.

say what so Negan and Rick is hot to ya

How in the hell did Negan blame Daryl for Glenn's death on talking dead JDM is a trip