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It is OK to be gay but not transgender. are many trans people pushed into indentifying themself via sexual attraction? Are many transgender women who idenitify as hetrosexual (i.e trans women who are only attracted to men) being pressured by not only mainstrean society but other queers, manily gay men into indentifying as Gay? I have heard many gay men say that trans people are not trans and are in fact just "effeminate" gay men and deny thier gender. I also wonder how many trans women do not feel comfortable to come out and are living as gay men?
. [Edited 4/9/16 22:20pm] “It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet. | |
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Do you think many gays may actually be repressed transgender? And those are the ones who lash out at transgender people who make the transition? and straight men who lash out are dealing with possible attraction they feel towards trans women and do not know how to deal?
[Edited 4/11/16 19:48pm] “It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet. | |
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Or is trans hate just another manifestation of gay misogyny? itself just an extension of mainstream sexism? Can we have this discussion especially for those who expereience it or we can not offend LGBT's prize egg. The gay white male? the holy grail of western societies progressive left.
[Edited 4/11/16 20:34pm] “It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet. | |
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From a masculine gay point of view.....
Well a transgender person could like whoever they are attracted to.
Say with Cait Jenner...is still obviously attracted to women and feeling 'forced' to have to date or be with men. Its obvious in the show he is uncomfortable with that...and shouldnt have to feel forced to date a man.
However some transgender persons like men only but look like women.
This can be troubling because straight men...from observation are mainly only attracted to women EVEN IF the person used to be a man. If a straight male experiments, it is usually with a man. Either way I feel the straight male would treat the gay man and the transgender person one and the same because they are not 'part of his norm'.
There would be a problem as well with this transgender person being with a gay man as well because...helloo...gay men are attracted to men not women. Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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You would think so, right? however not such the case. There is a train thought amongst some gay circles that say gay men go through a period of "gender-confusion" and that it is a phase. I believe this period to be when the repression happens usually by other repressed transgenders who feed them the whole "I went through that" which is akin to some kind of gender-reperative therapy or bullying.
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet. | |
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Ok, I believe with this you may be referencing someone like say Janet Mock or Laverne Cox who has undergone hormone treatment ect... I dont think a male who idenitfies as straight who is attracted to them would also be attracted to gay men or men in general or that they would view a trans women in the same way as a gay male. you make the point that gay men are attracted to men so why would they be attracted to a trans women? same thing probably appiles here i.e they are attracted to females which is why they are attracted to trans women. for a male who is bi-sexual perhaps what you said could apply.
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[Edited 4/12/16 3:40am] “It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet. | |
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I have never experienced or seen gays lash out on transgenders either and i am in the gay community since a long time.
Never heard of the gender confusion fase of gay men either. Seriously, never.
Where do you experience these things? |
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hausofmoi7 said: Do you think many gays may actually be repressed transgender? And those are the ones who lash out at transgender people who make the transition? and straight men who lash out are dealing with possible attraction they feel towards trans women and do not know how to deal?
[Edited 4/11/16 19:48pm] No, no and I don't know. | |
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There is definitely bigotry towards trans people in the gay community. no doubt. Some gay men will dismiss trans people in the same way cis/straight people do. I have heard some gay men say that it is only phase as they also had felt that way. . I was just reading some comments on another discussion about this and there are many people who agree. mainly trans people tho. There are even straight people asking why do the majority of gay people they meet hold "anti-trans" views. . perhaps you not aware of this as you are not trans or gender non conforming and that as a result you are not subjected to the bigotry?
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[Edited 4/12/16 20:40pm] “It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet. | |
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I really do feel that many trans people are repressed and that has alot to do with the negative stigma around it.
. [Edited 4/12/16 20:21pm] “It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet. | |
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.[Edited 4/12/16 20:30pm] “It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet. | |
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Yeah I would need some valid examples. While I am a gay man, my circle is mostly straight people. As a security manager I hang with a bunch of alpha type males as well so I don't get to experience the gay life as much and have friends who are gay...some transgender persons...but I have to admit they are more elusive and do not come around much so I don't get to speak to them Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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Aren't the issues different and almost contradictory?
The stereotype is that 'Gay' men want to be women... and there they have people(men) connected to their Gay community/issues/politics who want to be women | |
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I don't get what you are saying here OF4S [Edited 4/13/16 5:38am] “It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet. | |
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While, overall, I don't think the gay community is discriminatory towards trans people, I do think there are individuals within that community that can be like that. I wouldn't say it is a massive, widespread issue, but a friend of mine who is a trans-woman, who is still attracted to women, has sometimes caught some flack within the gay community for it. I'd say the vast majority of the gay community is cool to her, but I know her feeling of being a woman, but also being attracted to women, has baffled some in both the straight and gay circles.
I think gay people can be just as guilty as straights of buying into stereotypes regarding gender roles and sexual orientation. I had one gay friend tell me I MUST be closet, since I deviate strongly from traditional masculine roles, and also had no issue performing in a play in drag. Well, it isn't always so simple. I may have many feminine traits, but the fact that I'm not attracted to men at all kinda excludes me from being able to label myself as homosexual! Still...this isn't the reaction I've gotten from most gay men. I think, what it comes down to, is that ANY community can have folks within it that are discriminatory or closed-minded. The gay community isn't an exception, because it is made up of human individuals. 
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) | |
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Some of the issues I've heard from gay men about connecting with Trans people, is that their issues are different. That Trans people actually (for example) a (male) that is trans says he is actually a female. ??
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OldFriends4Sale said:
Some of the issues I've heard from gay men about connecting with Trans people, is that their issues are different. That Trans people actually (for example) a (male) that is trans says he is actually a female. ??
That is a very common attitude or thing to hear from some gay men. What does someone else's gender have to do with them though. "The lady doth protests too much" “It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet. | |
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wouldn't that be a viable issue though, two different issues?
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Interesting........... I will have to talk to my 17 year old transgender nephew niece about this topic. I wonder what she would say? 
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I hear you. gender and sexuality are not the most important or interesting feature about someone or should be the focus of anyones human experience.
. [Edited 4/14/16 5:18am] “It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet. | |
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http://www.slate.com/blog...ender.html
"I knew nothing about what it meant to be transgender I wrote from a butch lesbian perspective because that was how others saw me and I’d never questioned that identity"
When I first started writing about LGBTQ issues for Slate, I knew nothing about what it meant to be transgender. I wrote from a butch lesbian perspective because that was how others saw me, and I’d never questioned that identity. The little I knew about trans people made me uncomfortable—I’d made a life for myself based on assumptions about how bodies and gender were unchanging facts, and the existence of trans people threatened that certainty. But the more I learned about trans people, the harder it was to avoid facing the possibility that I am trans myself. Growing up, I never asked myself whether I might be transgender. When I first learned about transvestites and transsexuals in elementary school back in the 1980s, and later about transgender people in high school and college, I asked other questions, the wrong questions. “What’s wrong with transgender people?” I wondered. “Who do they think they’re kidding? Everyone knows you're stuck with the sex your body is assigned at birth.” I could have asked other questions. Like, "Why do transgender people make me feel so uncomfortable?" Or, "Why do I feel more comfortable when I wear men’s clothing rather than women’s?" Or, "Why do I feel so negatively about my body size and shape, regardless of how much weight I lose or gain?” There was no shortage of signs that I wasn’t necessarily cisgender, but I actively avoided thinking about such things. Thinking much about my body or my gender was painful and embarrassing, and I didn’t see the point. I had a lot of prejudices about transgender folks—ones that a lot of bigoted, fearful people share. I thought that maybe trans people were crazy, unable to accept reality the way I had. I also suspected there might be something sinister or dangerous about transgender people, something that needed to be resisted. I thought they mistook societal gender norms for natural rules—though I’d never investigated what actual trans people thought about gender norms, and the reality is that the transgender community tends to be a lot more progressive about gender norms than mainstream society is. I also reckoned that I could always spot a trans person—that a person’s “real” gender always showed through. I saw sex and gender as something one was stuck with, and I believed it was a sign of weakness to complain or try to change whatever nature had left you with. I also believed that all women secretly wanted to be men. This is not actually the case. Early in my writing career—although not quite early enough for this not to be mortifying—I wrote a piece called “Why I’m Still a Butch Lesbian.” I argued in favor of keeping the boundaries around gender norms and roles as wide open as possible. This is a position I’d gladly defend today, albeit with some caveats. I am not a butch woman. I think many butch women are strong, inspiring, proud, admirable, and often incredibly sexy. I do not think all of the... trans men. I was secretly a trans man, and on some level I must have known it, because I remember writing that essay and leaving out little details that I feared might make people suspect I was transgender. I knew, but didn’t know, and I feared asking the right questions of myself. For instance, I might have mentioned that I’d always wanted to have my breasts removed. Not, I thought, strongly enough to do anything about it—but I persistently and stubbornly imagined that chopping them right off would be preferable to having them, going back all the way to when they sprouted, unwelcome, from my 12- or 13-year-old chest. I felt a similar dislike for other feminine aspects of my being—my hips, my monthly periods, my softness, my shape. Oh, yeah, and I also wanted a penis. Not desperately and constantly, but as an absent preference, arising mostly when I was turned on. I thought that writing about this would confuse people—but this was pretty obviously gender dysphoria, and I was the person who was confused, or perhaps just ashamed about having it. I had discomfort with my body, sometimes severe and sometimes less so, but I never thought of myself as having a gender identity, per se, and to be honest I’m still not 100 percent clear what it means to have a “gender identity.” I don’t feel my gender in my bones the way some people do—the way my wife, who’s a cisgender lesbian, describes feeling about her femaleness. (It came as a shock to hear my wife describe feeling strongly female, because I thought that strong feelings about gender were something only trans people had. One more reason I couldn’t possibly be trans.) My understanding of what gender dysphoria was and the realization that I had it came slowly, often through experimentation, as I became more aware of the experience of trans people and more willing to try things out myself. When it was only trying men’s clothing and nothing more, I thought my comfort in those clothes meant I must be a butch lesbian. Later, when I tried things like packing and binding my chest, and when I saw pictures and videos of trans men who looked just like any other guy, it became clearer that there wasn’t a natural stopping point short of a fully masculine appearance that would work for me. Every step I took felt better than the last, and the more I learned about different ways of being trans, the clearer it was that transitioning to male might work for me. The idea of asking people who experience dysphoria not to transition, when transition works so well, and when there is no other effective treatment that we know of, has come to seem unreasonable to me. I could probably live as a gender-nonconforming woman who wished she was a man, but why should I have to do that if I could live more comfortably as a man? With the help of my wife and a therapist who specializes in gender identity, I decided to start hormone therapy. Right now, I still think of myself more as transitioning to male than as a man, because the bodily changes, rather than the social identity, are my main focus. I still use female pronouns, and I have yet to change my name. Testosterone makes people with bodies like mine look basically indistinguishable from cisgender men. It grows beards, lowers voices, and redistributes fat. I didn’t know that this was a possibility when I was still calling myself a butch woman—I didn’t know anything about hormones or other medical treatments. I had a lot of opinions about transgender people and zero facts. There’s still a lot that I don’t know, but if there’s a chance that testosterone will alleviate the feelings of disgust and wrongness in my own skin that I had, I think it’s worth finding it out. It’s early days, but so far the treatment seems to agree with me—even without any drastic physical changes, there have been subtle emotional and mental benefits that are hard to describe beyond saying that I feel calmer and more at ease with myself. Top Comment Is it too late to subtitle this article Call Me Slatelyn? More... I’ll end with a caveat that belongs in all trans stories: This all applies to me and not necessarily to anyone else. I don’t mean to imply that trans men aren’t real men if they don’t take testosterone or that female pronouns shouldn’t bother other transgender men. If I’ve learned anything, it’s that I’m not an expert on anyone’s experience but my own—and sometimes I haven’t even been that.
. [Edited 4/14/16 5:22am] “It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet. | |
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