EmmaMcG said:

databank said:

I finally watched B&R for the first time 3 years ago. God was I scared! In the end I realized it was just a cartoon and thought "well I'm bored to death but I'm sure it's a great film if u're 6 years old!". And then I read that Schumacher was shouting "this is a cartoon, remember!" to the actors before shooting scenes, so in that regard the director has achieved his purpose: a great film for 6 years-old. Now of course it wasn't what the more mature audiences wanted and the film got what it deserved

It's weird that the ACTUAL cartoon from the 90's was more mature than either of Joel Schumacher's movies. I really don't understand why they don't have Paul Dini and Bruce Timm involved in making the new movies.

Here, here!!!!

Hell, the episode "World's Finest" (which is available on DVD as "The Batman/Superman Movie") would have been perfect to have adapted into a live-action film. Batman and Superman don't trust each other, but eventually wind up working together when Lex and Joker hatch a plot. Best scene in that? Superman uses his x-ray vision to see Bruce Wayne's face under the cowl. Later, Clark Kent is at home and finds Batman has snuck a tracking device onto his cape. the way both learn each others secret identities is just perfect!

JediMaster said:

databank said:

This concept is very close to Grant Morrison's hypertime concept introduced in 1998 but soon given up, which also acknowledged every version/reboot of the DCU as authentic.

The DCU in comics makes no sense to me anymore now, it's more of a non-continuity than a continuity and their attempts to rationalize it are more and more pathetic.

After a few big post COIE continuity issues and inconsistencies, things had pretty much settled-up after Zero Hour and save a few quacks, from 1986 to 2004 the DCU had a pretty stable, cohesive and functional continuity. Then came Dan Didio who began to basically reboot either characters or the whole universe every other day, and that's when I lost interest. Didio will always be the man who destroyed the DCU, he's worse than the Anti-Monitor and Parallax altogether

Mark Waid created the Hypertime concept. Morrison was one of the few writers who actually got what Waid was trying to do and wrote decent stories about it. There is a definite similarity, but in this case they are just opening up the possibility for stories to be told in the other universes. Whether or not Rebirth winds up using this or not remains to be seen. One encouraging thing, to me anyway, is that they seem to know they screwed the pooch with the New 52 reboot, and that the sense of legacy in the DCU took a massive hit. At this point, it may just be a band-aid on a shotgun wound though. We'll see.

Thx for the correction.

Personally i've lost all hope. Though I'm sure there still r great stories but I like shared universes when they make sense, at least to a certain extent.

JediMaster said:

JediMaster said:

uPtoWnNY said:

I blame the Ass-Known-As Joel Schumacher for that disaster, not Clooney. Schumacher said he wanted to make Batman "fun" again, and that it was time he got over the death of his parents. That's when you knew the film was in trouble. And don't get me started with the nipples on the Batsuit - what's up with that? Thank goodness for Nolan & Bale rescuing the franchise after Schumacher nearly killed it.

Okay, this site really needs a "reply to multiple posts" function!!! Just saying!

While I definitely think Schumacher deserves at least half the blame, the other 50% goes to WB, who told JS up front that they wanted a live-action cartoon. They felt that the tone of Batman Forever was a step in the right direction, and wanted it to be even more goofy and silly. They actually told him, at one point, that he needed to make sure he was making a movie that would sell toys.

I think there is a happy medium. You can have movies that are "darker" but also keep with the tone of the characters from the comics. Also, there are different characters that lend themselves to this treatment. A Justice League film should probably have a tone more in line with what Marvel did with The Avengers, but DC also owns The Authority, which is a violent, adult-aimed book. If they want to do a movie with characters killing their antagonists left and right, adapt that one!

The scene in BvS where Batman rescues Martha Kent is a great example. I have NO problem with 90% of the action in that scene. In fact, if you take Batman's use of guns out of the scene, it would be the fight I've always wanted in a Batman film. Batman should be dark (but not murderous). Superman, on the other hand, should not be. There should be a contrast between the two characters. It's a dynamic that makes their team-ups in the comics fascinating.

Exactly what I said about WB missing the whole point of the DCU!

My main issue with Batman killing isn't moral, it's that it makes him the Punisher, i.e. an illegal vigilante. Hard to believe the man can kill and get away with it and then gets a free pass for a high security prison with the police's blessing.

Avoid this garbage.

My main issue with the Bats v Supes fight scene was the dialogue.

"Gotta save Martha"

"Martha? Why you say dat?"

"Martha's his mama."

"Yo mama name Martha too?"

"That's my mama."

"Okay dude, it's all good."

Now, I realize that you don't mess with nobody's mama, much less Superman's but....seriously?

All we needed was for Robin to come in and say "Holy Mother Of Krypton, Batman!"

I swear....

babynoz said:

My main issue with the Bats v Supes fight scene was the dialogue.

"Gotta save Martha"

"Martha? Why you say dat?"

"Martha's his mama."

"Yo mama name Martha too?"

"That's my mama."

"Okay dude, it's all good."

Now, I realize that you don't mess with nobody's mama, much less Superman's but....seriously?

All we needed was for Robin to come in and say "Holy Mother Of Krypton, Batman!"

I swear....

I never knew if it was originally intentional to give them the same name in the comics, but whether coincidence or not it was smart to toy with it in the movie I think

databank said:

babynoz said:

My main issue with the Bats v Supes fight scene was the dialogue.

"Gotta save Martha"

"Martha? Why you say dat?"

"Martha's his mama."

"Yo mama name Martha too?"

"That's my mama."

"Okay dude, it's all good."

Now, I realize that you don't mess with nobody's mama, much less Superman's but....seriously?

All we needed was for Robin to come in and say "Holy Mother Of Krypton, Batman!"

I swear....

I never knew if it was originally intentional to give them the same name in the comics, but whether coincidence or not it was smart to toy with it in the movie I think

It was something that I'd never noticed before so yeah. But the way the dialogue went was funny though....kind of like a big "yo mama" joke.

Suddenly they're bffs and Bats can't kill him because his mama's name is Martha too?

I know it was because of the flashback to his own mother's death but the way they did the scene made me laugh.

databank said:

babynoz said:

My main issue with the Bats v Supes fight scene was the dialogue.

"Gotta save Martha"

"Martha? Why you say dat?"

"Martha's his mama."

"Yo mama name Martha too?"

"That's my mama."

"Okay dude, it's all good."

Now, I realize that you don't mess with nobody's mama, much less Superman's but....seriously?

All we needed was for Robin to come in and say "Holy Mother Of Krypton, Batman!"

I swear....

I never knew if it was originally intentional to give them the same name in the comics, but whether coincidence or not it was smart to toy with it in the movie I think

As far as I can find Martha Wayne was named as such since she was first mentioned in 1939, while Martha Kent went under several first names (mostly Mary but Marthe and a few others as well) between 1939 and 1961, when she was finally established as Martha. Batman and Superman team-ups were very popular in the 1950's so it's possible that the similarity in names was intentional but IDK.

databank said:

databank said:

I never knew if it was originally intentional to give them the same name in the comics, but whether coincidence or not it was smart to toy with it in the movie I think

As far as I can find Martha Wayne was named as such since she was first mentioned in 1939, while Martha Kent went under several first names (mostly Mary but Marthe and a few others as well) between 1939 and 1961, when she was finally established as Martha. Batman and Superman team-ups were very popular in the 1950's so it's possible that the similarity in names was intentional but IDK.

I have only known both as Martha but I never thought about it until that scene.

babynoz said:

My main issue with the Bats v Supes fight scene was the dialogue.

"Gotta save Martha"

"Martha? Why you say dat?"

"Martha's his mama."

"Yo mama name Martha too?"

"That's my mama."

"Okay dude, it's all good."

Now, I realize that you don't mess with nobody's mama, much less Superman's but....seriously?

All we needed was for Robin to come in and say "Holy Mother Of Krypton, Batman!"

I swear....

Also people are missing 2 things here:

1/ Bats reacts to the name Martha not just because it's his mother's name but because he's been receiving those anonymous letters from luthor, teasing himù about his folk's deaths, so he obviously needs to know if this is related.

2/ Bats doesn't stop killing Clark because their moms have the same names but because all of a sudden an innocent's life is at stakes while he's busy kicking the shit out of a guy whose gulit is only speculative.

NOW what I found uttely gross and ridiculous is Bats abandoning the spear of Kryptonite in a vacant building for anyone to find or to be lost forever, u know this unique, powerful weapon that's the only thing that can kill a kryptonian (how does he know more guys like Zod won't come after all). Now that was lame!

Afterward Bats says to Martha, "It's okay, I'm a friend of your son's" and Martha says, "yeah I kinda figured that out from the cape."

I mean, really?

databank said:

babynoz said:

My main issue with the Bats v Supes fight scene was the dialogue.

"Gotta save Martha"

"Martha? Why you say dat?"

"Martha's his mama."

"Yo mama name Martha too?"

"That's my mama."

"Okay dude, it's all good."

Now, I realize that you don't mess with nobody's mama, much less Superman's but....seriously?

All we needed was for Robin to come in and say "Holy Mother Of Krypton, Batman!"

I swear....

Also people are missing 2 things here:

1/ Bats reacts to the name Martha not just because it's his mother's name but because he's been receiving those anonymous letters from luthor, teasing himù about his folk's deaths, so he obviously needs to know if this is related.

2/ Bats doesn't stop killing Clark because their moms have the same names but because all of a sudden an innocent's life is at stakes while he's busy kicking the shit out of a guy whose gulit is only speculative.

NOW what I found uttely gross and ridiculous is Bats abandoning the spear of Kryptonite in a vacant building for anyone to find or to be lost forever, u know this unique, powerful weapon that's the only thing that can kill a kryptonian (how does he know more guys like Zod won't come after all). Now that was lame!

No, I didn't miss any of that. You're missing my point.

I am laughing specifically at the way the actual dialogue itself was done.

babynoz said:

EmmaMcG said:

babynoz said:

Afterward Bats says to Martha, "It's okay, I'm a friend of your son's" and Martha says, "yeah I kinda figured that out from the cape."

I mean, really?

Most critics complained about the lack of humour and the one joke in the movie is what you pick up on? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think it's funny.

As I said in my review a few pages ago, I'm actually glad they kept the wisecracks to a minimum.

Not that the one they did wasn't funny....it was just corny.

Y'all ruining my jokey jokes though....

babynoz said:

EmmaMcG said:

babynoz said:

As I said in my review a few pages ago, I'm actually glad they kept the wisecracks to a minimum.

Not that the one they did wasn't funny....it was just corny.

I know what you mean. I just thought it was funny because I thought the same thing.

I thought it was just me because I'm amused by the oddest things sometimes.

Check this out. We may not see much of Supes in the next film.

http://www.theguardian.co...ice-ending

EmmaMcG said:

JediMaster said:

Here, here!!!!

Hell, the episode "World's Finest" (which is available on DVD as "The Batman/Superman Movie") would have been perfect to have adapted into a live-action film. Batman and Superman don't trust each other, but eventually wind up working together when Lex and Joker hatch a plot. Best scene in that? Superman uses his x-ray vision to see Bruce Wayne's face under the cowl. Later, Clark Kent is at home and finds Batman has snuck a tracking device onto his cape. the way both learn each others secret identities is just perfect!

That was brilliant. I wonder if they had just adapted that episode into a movie, would it have been a bigger hit than Dawn of Justice? I liked the new movie a lot but nothing, not even the 1989 movie, which is still my favourite Batman movie, has come close to the animated series of either Batman or Superman. I watched my brother play Arkham Asylum on the xbox and that would have made a great movie too. For those who don't know it, Batman finds himself locked inside the Asylum which The Joker has taken over. And it has the same voice cast as the animated series so it just feels right.

Totally agree! Yeah, I think if they had adapted that episode, or at least gone for a similar tone, it would have been a much bigger hit. It would have pleased hardcore comic fans, as well as the general audience. One of the genius things about the animated series is that the stories are intricate enough for adults to follow, yet still acceptable for kids to watch. It's that rare blend of cross-generational appeal, suitable for any age. It isn't dumbed-down for children, but it also isn't afraid to have big, flashy moments for them.

Speaking of the animated series, while this definitely WON'T be kid-friendly, I absolutely cannot wait to see this!! Conroy as Batman, Hamill as the Joker...and the great Ray Wise as Gordon? SOOOOOOOO stoked:

https://youtu.be/DDj4zGFf4F8

babynoz said:

EmmaMcG said:

babynoz said: I know what you mean. I just thought it was funny because I thought the same thing.

I thought it was just me because I'm amused by the oddest things sometimes.

Check this out. We may not see much of Supes in the next film.

http://www.theguardian.co...ice-ending

It seems obvious to me that Snyder is setting up the Earth Two storyline where Darkseid resurrects Superman and uses him as a super-powered slave. I think that (utterly ridiculous) dream sequence in BvS is pointing that direction...which means we'll have the Justice League forming to (sigh) fight Superman. I'm sure they'll deprogram Supes before it is all said and done, and I'm sure we'll see other beloved characters be killed (I predict Lois, Alfred and Perry White will all die in the next couple of films, because...Zach Synder).

JediMaster said:

babynoz said:

I thought it was just me because I'm amused by the oddest things sometimes.

Check this out. We may not see much of Supes in the next film.

http://www.theguardian.co...ice-ending

It seems obvious to me that Snyder is setting up the Earth Two storyline where Darkseid resurrects Superman and uses him as a super-powered slave. I think that (utterly ridiculous) dream sequence in BvS is pointing that direction...which means we'll have the Justice League forming to (sigh) fight Superman. I'm sure they'll deprogram Supes before it is all said and done, and I'm sure we'll see other beloved characters be killed (I predict Lois, Alfred and Perry White will all die in the next couple of films, because...Zach Synder).

So, since Jimmy Olsen was unceremoniously offed already how many more core charaters do you think they can get away with snuffing?

Heaven help us, Kevin Smith on BvS...

Oddly enough he made the same joke about the mama dialogue that I did.

Apologies to the more serious comic consumers but I like fun observations as much as analysis.

Did you guys hear about this? I'm curious about this script.

http://www.hollywoodrepor...his-879355

I found this film mindblowingly boring and an absolute story-telling disaster. While the premise is interesting, the characterisation is appaling, the story doesn't make sense and, while it was visually stunning, all the slow motion scenes, rather than reinforcing the idea of Superman as a messianic figure made me think if the upcoming Baywatch film... Batman's actions were just plain stupid, but nowhere near as stupid as Lex Luthor's. What the hell was he thinking? Create a super evil superman to kill Superman and then.. What? How was Lex planning to stop that Superfoetus from destrying the whole world - Lex included?

Finally, something that got me a bit confused (although by then I wasn't paying attention). What was Wonder Woman doing during the Superman-Batman fight scene? Lex's kitchen timer showed that the fight lasted for one hour, but in this time I coud swear I saw Wonder Woman first arriving to her appartment/hotel, then chiling in her room, and then she was in a plane? Is she Wonder Woman AND the Flash? Again, by then I was thinking of what I was going to eat for my dinner after the film, so it probably made sense.

kpowers said:

nonames said:

I found this film mindblowingly boring and an absolute story-telling disaster. While the premise is interesting, the characterisation is appaling, the story doesn't make sense and, while it was visually stunning, all the slow motion scenes, rather than reinforcing the idea of Superman as a messianic figure made me think if the upcoming Baywatch film... Batman's actions were just plain stupid, but nowhere near as stupid as Lex Luthor's. What the hell was he thinking? Create a super evil superman to kill Superman and then.. What? How was Lex planning to stop that Superfoetus from destrying the whole world - Lex included?

Finally, something that got me a bit confused (although by then I wasn't paying attention). What was Wonder Woman doing during the Superman-Batman fight scene? Lex's kitchen timer showed that the fight lasted for one hour, but in this time I coud swear I saw Wonder Woman first arriving to her appartment/hotel, then chiling in her room, and then she was in a plane? Is she Wonder Woman AND the Flash? Again, by then I was thinking of what I was going to eat for my dinner after the film, so it probably made sense.

In fact Lex almost was Doomsday's first victim when the monster awoke, and Clark saved him. This part is quite confusing yes. I in fact don't even know for sure why Lex wants to kill Bruce and Clark so badly in the first place (is it ever explained?).

Now there's this (stupidely) deleted scene where Lex is talking to some alien in the Kryptonian ship, that leads to his apparently out of the blue "he is coming" at the end. Everyone assumes he was talking to Darkseid and it is then possible that Darkseid was supposed to stop or tame Doomsday, either that or Lex is just... insane to the brink of irrationality and suicidal tendencies.

IDK, it's too much to assume: those things would be better off clearly explained.

breakdown2k14 said:

breakdown2k14 said:

kpowers said:

The cure is to watch the following dvd's

Is "batman-animated series season 4" really that good ? Didn't they change the animation by the season 4 came around? I think I stopped watching cuz Robin looked like a little kid [Edited 4/8/16 22:10pm]

I hated they way they drew the Joker, the eyes were just black dots which took something away from the Joker

The New Batman Adventures

[Edited 4/9/16 0:54am]

breakdown2k14 said:

Is "batman-animated series season 4" really that good ? Didn't they change the animation by the season 4 came around? I think I stopped watching cuz Robin looked like a little kid [Edited 4/8/16 22:10pm]

Yes, it is. The animation style changed somewhat, but that was a deliberate choice. The idea was to show that it was over a year later, and that things had changed in Gotham. The reason Robin looks like a "little kid" is because he IS. Dick Grayson, the Robin from the first three seasons, has left to become Nightwing (who also shows up in this season). The new Robin is Tim Drake, who is much younger.

Okay, so I'm ten minutes into George Clooney Batman.....

Y'know, since I was warned I really have no business complaining. I know I brought this on myself but nobody I mean, nobody deserves this.

Worst film in the history of cinema.