JediMaster said:

I'm not convinced this is going to be any good. They basically showed the whole plot in the trailer for crying out loud.

Superman is so fucking hot, that ass.

JediMaster said:

It's amazing to me...as good as the DC Television universe is (Arrow, Flash, Constantine), the cinematic universe is looking to be proportionatly bad. From the miscasting of Will Smith as Deadshot, to the horrid looking Doomsday, to the terrible tattoos on the Joker...it just looks like a trainwreck. Hope I'm wrong.

Tim Burton has commented that he wouldn't be caught dead reading a comic book.....and this movie (which is based on a comic book character)shows that. This movie and Burton's other batmans show his complete misunderstanding/ignorance of the whole Batman verse and his pathetic attempt to "Burtonize" it. It seems to him that near anyone can put on a costume and go from "regular Joe" to a caped crusader. Come to think of it, Burton described Bruce Wayne as a "regular guy" that becomes something else when he dons this costume. Bruce Wayne a regular guy??? He saw he parents murdered in front of him as a kid, rules an industry empire and is driven by his darker half to become a masked vigilante that swings from skyscrapers to fight crime. Tim Burton really, really needs to stick to his claymation type movies of weirdness because he has NO talent for an action movie & in-depth character like Batman. I pity Michael Keaton for getting stuck with a director like Burton for this movie.

TRUECRISTIAN said:

JediMaster said:

It's amazing to me...as good as the DC Television universe is (Arrow, Flash, Constantine), the cinematic universe is looking to be proportionatly bad. From the miscasting of Will Smith as Deadshot, to the horrid looking Doomsday, to the terrible tattoos on the Joker...it just looks like a trainwreck. Hope I'm wrong.

Tim Burton has commented that he wouldn't be caught dead reading a comic book.....and this movie (which is based on a comic book character)shows that. This movie and Burton's other batmans show his complete misunderstanding/ignorance of the whole Batman verse and his pathetic attempt to "Burtonize" it. It seems to him that near anyone can put on a costume and go from "regular Joe" to a caped crusader. Come to think of it, Burton described Bruce Wayne as a "regular guy" that becomes something else when he dons this costume. Bruce Wayne a regular guy??? He saw he parents murdered in front of him as a kid, rules an industry empire and is driven by his darker half to become a masked vigilante that swings from skyscrapers to fight crime. Tim Burton really, really needs to stick to his claymation type movies of weirdness because he has NO talent for an action movie & in-depth character like Batman. I pity Michael Keaton for getting stuck with a director like Burton for this movie.

Thank you ! And I thought I was the only one who dislikes Tim Burton´s version of Batman.

I never understood what the hoopla was all about....Burton´s Batman never came close to ANY version of the Batman comicbook incarnations.

The 60s TV show was too campy but still in good fun and captured that 1960s flavor and I liked it when I was a little kid, and Christopher Nolan´s version came pretty close to the darker, more serious Batman that O´Neill and Adams revived in the late 70s and early 80s, and Nolan also incorporated a bit of Frank Miller´s more serious tone into his vision but Burton?

Burton´s Batman sucked big time.

I don´t mind Burton in general, I like some of his movies, and I also have nothing against Michael Keaton as an actor, but both were terrible choices for a Batman movie.

And I don´t care how big of a box office smash hit the movie was...I did not like it at all, and it took me years to appreciate Prince´s Batman album a bit, that´s how much I hated all that hype surrounding that movie.

-

This movie, though probably not as good as Nolan´s and Christian Bale´s Batman, looks promising and interesting.

I really like the Burton version, but i can see where you are coming from, and i agree.

KoolEaze said:

EmmaMcG said:

KoolEaze said:

Thank you ! And I thought I was the only one who dislikes Tim Burton´s version of Batman.

I never understood what the hoopla was all about....Burton´s Batman never came close to ANY version of the Batman comicbook incarnations.

The 60s TV show was too campy but still in good fun and captured that 1960s flavor and I liked it when I was a little kid, and Christopher Nolan´s version came pretty close to the darker, more serious Batman that O´Neill and Adams revived in the late 70s and early 80s, and Nolan also incorporated a bit of Frank Miller´s more serious tone into his vision but Burton?

Burton´s Batman sucked big time.

I don´t mind Burton in general, I like some of his movies, and I also have nothing against Michael Keaton as an actor, but both were terrible choices for a Batman movie.

And I don´t care how big of a box office smash hit the movie was...I did not like it at all, and it took me years to appreciate Prince´s Batman album a bit, that´s how much I hated all that hype surrounding that movie.

-

This movie, though probably not as good as Nolan´s and Christian Bale´s Batman, looks promising and interesting.

Wow. To me, there is only one Batman and that's Michael Keaton. I liked both the Tim Button films and I normally don't like Tim Burton. But I love his Batman movies. Jack Nicholson has never been beat as the Joker in my opinion. I liked Burton's take on Catwoman and Penguin too. Val Kilmer could have been good. Unfortunately the script was shit and the director was a dickhead without a clue. Same for Clooney. I liked Batman Begins. Didn't love it. But it was ok. I felt the same about The Dark Knight. Good but not great. Rises was boring though. Christian Bales Batman voice was annoying. I didn't like him as Batman at all. As for Affleck, he's a good actor but if the film is shit, there's not much he can do about it. I'm hoping it's good though.

So, you do not like Bale as Batman? that's odd.

EmmaMcG said:

KoolEaze said:

Thank you ! And I thought I was the only one who dislikes Tim Burton´s version of Batman.

I never understood what the hoopla was all about....Burton´s Batman never came close to ANY version of the Batman comicbook incarnations.

The 60s TV show was too campy but still in good fun and captured that 1960s flavor and I liked it when I was a little kid, and Christopher Nolan´s version came pretty close to the darker, more serious Batman that O´Neill and Adams revived in the late 70s and early 80s, and Nolan also incorporated a bit of Frank Miller´s more serious tone into his vision but Burton?

Burton´s Batman sucked big time.

I don´t mind Burton in general, I like some of his movies, and I also have nothing against Michael Keaton as an actor, but both were terrible choices for a Batman movie.

And I don´t care how big of a box office smash hit the movie was...I did not like it at all, and it took me years to appreciate Prince´s Batman album a bit, that´s how much I hated all that hype surrounding that movie.

-

This movie, though probably not as good as Nolan´s and Christian Bale´s Batman, looks promising and interesting.

Wow. To me, there is only one Batman and that's Michael Keaton. I liked both the Tim Button films and I normally don't like Tim Burton. But I love his Batman movies. Jack Nicholson has never been beat as the Joker in my opinion. I liked Burton's take on Catwoman and Penguin too. Val Kilmer could have been good. Unfortunately the script was shit and the director was a dickhead without a clue. Same for Clooney. I liked Batman Begins. Didn't love it. But it was ok. I felt the same about The Dark Knight. Good but not great. Rises was boring though. Christian Bales Batman voice was annoying. I didn't like him as Batman at all. As for Affleck, he's a good actor but if the film is shit, there's not much he can do about it. I'm hoping it's good though.

I must admit I did like Jack Nicholson as the Joker, but then again, Jack Nicholson has been playing the Joker 24/7 for the most part of his life.

Cesar Romero was a great Joker, too, but the TV show he starred in was very camp and of course he couldn´t come across as evil, sinister and insane as the Joker incarnation played by Heath Ledger, whose work was based on more recent versions of the Joker.

-

I like all three Joker actors a lot but I can´t say the same about all Bruce Wayne / Batman actors. As an oldschool Batman reader, I found Michael Keaton far from looking convincing, he just does not have a very athletic physique in the movie, and does not come across as serious and tormented of a soul as Bale does.

The funny thing is, I actually like Michael Keaton and George Clooney a lot and enjoy most of their films but they just aren´t very Batman-like or Bruce Wayne-like to someone like me who´s been a longtime Batman reader.

-

But I totally agree with you about that annoying Batman voice in the Nolan films. That sounds so silly to me.

I initially thought Clooney could be a great Bruce Wayne (and Batman), because he certainly has some of that charisma that the Neal Adams´ version of Batman had....and he looks the part:

And Batman Begins had Ras Al Ghul as the villain...I really liked that idea of him a a villain. Reminded me a bit of this story:

I feel a bit indifferent towards The Dark Knight Rises. I don´t find it as good as the first two parts, but I also don´t dislike it as much as most people do. But then again, I am one of the few people who can enjoy The Godfather III, so what do I know?

-

I think Danny Devito was great as the Penguin.

The Val Kilmer Batman is the one I remember the least. I´m pretty sure I´ve seen it but honestly, that´s the only one I can´t even remember....not because of Val Kilmer but I just can´t remember that one. Maybe it´s good, I just don´t remember.

.

I am very curious about seeing Ben Affleck as Bruce Wayne. His movies are often hit and miss but he´s been in some great movies and I like him as an actor.

[Edited 12/13/15 14:47pm]

214 said:

KoolEaze said:

Doesn´t this post contradict your previous post above?

TRUECRISTIAN said:

What is all this yap about Michael Keaton as Batman? Yes, he was Batman, and he was a GREAT Batman. He pulled off every aspect of the role perfectly – he was better than Val Kilmer, better than George Clooney, better than everyone. He portrayed the mysterious charm of the winged crusader just as well as he captured the cool and collected character of Bruce Wayne. Michael Keaton is a huge part of the reason that this film was such a huge success, the other main portion having come from the tremendous contribution from Jack Nicholson as the Joker. Gotham City is created in incredibly detailed comic-book style, which adds to the overall quality of the movie. Director Tim Burton does an amazing job bringing this unreal world to reality, and Kim Basinger is excellent as Vicky Vale, the film's main female presence. The script is particularly brilliant. The role of the Joker seems to have been written specifically for Jack Nicholson, which would not be surprising because of how well he pulled off the role with lines like `Why didn't anyone tell me he had one of those…things?!' and `Remember me? When you dropped me into that vat of chemicals? That wasn't easy to get over, and don't think that I didn't try.' And, of course, my favorite, `…we'll be like Beauty and the Beast. Of course, if anyone else ever calls you beast, I'll rip their lungs out.' Everything, from the setting in Gotham City to the characters costumes to the actual dialogue, gives the unreal feeling of a comic book, but the characters are developed enough so that we understand their problems and we care about what happens. The movie is a thrill ride from the beginning to the end, and is enjoyable for all ages. If anyone is going to complain about who was chosen to play Batman, there is much more room for complaint among the film's several sequels. Keaton did a spectacular job that no one has ever even come close to.

KoolEaze said:

TRUECRISTIAN said:

Tim Burton has commented that he wouldn't be caught dead reading a comic book.....and this movie (which is based on a comic book character)shows that. This movie and Burton's other batmans show his complete misunderstanding/ignorance of the whole Batman verse and his pathetic attempt to "Burtonize" it. It seems to him that near anyone can put on a costume and go from "regular Joe" to a caped crusader. Come to think of it, Burton described Bruce Wayne as a "regular guy" that becomes something else when he dons this costume. Bruce Wayne a regular guy??? He saw he parents murdered in front of him as a kid, rules an industry empire and is driven by his darker half to become a masked vigilante that swings from skyscrapers to fight crime. Tim Burton really, really needs to stick to his claymation type movies of weirdness because he has NO talent for an action movie & in-depth character like Batman. I pity Michael Keaton for getting stuck with a director like Burton for this movie.

Thank you ! And I thought I was the only one who dislikes Tim Burton´s version of Batman.

I never understood what the hoopla was all about....Burton´s Batman never came close to ANY version of the Batman comicbook incarnations.

The 60s TV show was too campy but still in good fun and captured that 1960s flavor and I liked it when I was a little kid, and Christopher Nolan´s version came pretty close to the darker, more serious Batman that O´Neill and Adams revived in the late 70s and early 80s, and Nolan also incorporated a bit of Frank Miller´s more serious tone into his vision but Burton?

Burton´s Batman sucked big time.

I don´t mind Burton in general, I like some of his movies, and I also have nothing against Michael Keaton as an actor, but both were terrible choices for a Batman movie.

And I don´t care how big of a box office smash hit the movie was...I did not like it at all, and it took me years to appreciate Prince´s Batman album a bit, that´s how much I hated all that hype surrounding that movie.

-

This movie, though probably not as good as Nolan´s and Christian Bale´s Batman, looks promising and interesting.

I didn't mind Burton's version - I thought is was good for its time, but it pales in comparason to the Nolan/Bale version (which is THE version, IMO).

KoolEaze said:

Thank you ! And I thought I was the only one who dislikes Tim Burton´s version of Batman.

No, you're not the only one. Even though I loved it at the time (only because it was an updat to the '66 TV show we had), I cannot stand how Tim Burton made Batman look like a societal freak! His Batman was more like Edward Scissorhands, as opposed to a crime fighting superhero with great detective skills.

Do not get me started on the fact that Michael Keaton was a terrible Batman. Great actor, but not athletic enough to be Batman. Hello: F-ugly, all black, rubber bat costume.

Same as Jack, great actor, horrible Joker. Maybe Tim Burton, not being a fan of the comics, kept Keaton and Nicholson from great reference material, to develop their characters like the comics. It's been decades but I refuse to watch Batman and Batman Returns.

TheBatman said:

Heath's Joker is close to the comic-book version, particularly "The Killing Joke" graphic novel. He nailed that role. Nolan did his homework, unlike the other directors.

uPtoWnNY said:

EmmaMcG said:

Batman has to be cool.

No... Batman has to be a tortured, unhinged psychopath who's always on the verge of dismantling anything and anyone when needed... That to me is Batman, a guy who isn't any different from his Rogues gallery...

Neversin.

[Edited 12/15/15 2:48am]

KoolEaze said:

Doesn´t this post contradict your previous post above?

wtf, a quick google search reveals that TRUCRISTIAN just copy&pasted reviews from IMDB

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096895/reviews-523

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096895/reviews

and stupid moron did the same in the Star Wars thread

fucking troll hasn't got a brain to from his own opinion it seems


[edit]

LMAO he also c&p from IMDB on a Game of Thones thread


....and - WAIT FOR IT - even on this thread (!!!!)

Question for Hetero Guys:... Sexually? where he quotes from here

OMG what a loserville clown is that??

[Edited 12/15/15 8:22am]

Neversin said:

TRUECRISTIAN said:

JediMaster said:

It's amazing to me...as good as the DC Television universe is (Arrow, Flash, Constantine), the cinematic universe is looking to be proportionatly bad. From the miscasting of Will Smith as Deadshot, to the horrid looking Doomsday, to the terrible tattoos on the Joker...it just looks like a trainwreck. Hope I'm wrong.

Tim Burton has commented that he wouldn't be caught dead reading a comic book.....and this movie (which is based on a comic book character)shows that. This movie and Burton's other batmans show his complete misunderstanding/ignorance of the whole Batman verse and his pathetic attempt to "Burtonize" it. It seems to him that near anyone can put on a costume and go from "regular Joe" to a caped crusader. Come to think of it, Burton described Bruce Wayne as a "regular guy" that becomes something else when he dons this costume. Bruce Wayne a regular guy??? He saw he parents murdered in front of him as a kid, rules an industry empire and is driven by his darker half to become a masked vigilante that swings from skyscrapers to fight crime. Tim Burton really, really needs to stick to his claymation type movies of weirdness because he has NO talent for an action movie & in-depth character like Batman. I pity Michael Keaton for getting stuck with a director like Burton for this movie.

Well...I wasn't discussing the Burton films, as they aren't canonical in the new DC Cinematic Universe. So far, we only have one film set in that universe (Man of Steel), with Suicide Squad and BvS the next two entries.

As for Burton's entries, I have mixed feelings. Many of the aesthetics are incredible, and I still love the Batmobile, Batsuit and other "wonderful toys" he used in the film. That having been said, there are things that stick in my craw, such as Batman throwing people down bell tower shafts, Joker killing Bruce Wayne's parents, etc. It was good for its time, and I think it did wonders to get the movie studios to realize that more "serious" takes on superheroes were marketable, but it has MANY flaws.

Oh, and the greatest take on Batman, PERIOD, is the animated series. Kevin Conroy is THE best Batman there is. No live action actor has come remotely close to capturing all the best elements from the myriad different interpretations as Conroy has. When I read a Batman comic, I hear KC's voice in my head. The main reason I have ANY hope for this new film at all is the fact that Affleck has stated that he is a huge fan of the Animated Series. Hoping we see some of that in his interpretation

JediMaster said:

EmmaMcG said:

TheBatman said:

No, you're not the only one. Even though I loved it at the time (only because it was an updat to the '66 TV show we had), I cannot stand how Tim Burton made Batman look like a societal freak! His Batman was more like Edward Scissorhands, as opposed to a crime fighting superhero with great detective skills.

Do not get me started on the fact that Michael Keaton was a terrible Batman. Great actor, but not athletic enough to be Batman. Hello: F-ugly, all black, rubber bat costume.

Same as Jack, great actor, horrible Joker. Maybe Tim Burton, not being a fan of the comics, kept Keaton and Nicholson from great reference material, to develop their characters like the comics. It's been decades but I refuse to watch Batman and Batman Returns.

Jack Nicholson, a horrible Joker??? He IS the Joker! He's the only Joker outside of the animated series as far as I'm concerned. Same with Michael Keaton. To me, he'll always be Batman. Batman has to be cool. Michael Keaton is cool. Christian Bale is FAR from cool. The first two Nolan films are decent. But very overrated. I wonder if Heath Ledger didn't die would he be considered as good as he is. He was a good villain but he just didn't seem like The Joker to me. Now, as I said in a post above, I have never read a comic book in my life so maybe I'm wrong and that is how the character is supposed to be. But I'll take Jack Nicholson or Mark Hamill any day.

I love Hamill as the Joker. He's brilliant. That said, my favorite live action version is Ledger. He made the role his own, but was still true to the comic. Both of these actors have truly made their mark on the Clown Prince of Crime, and a case could be made for either one to be THE best for the role.

Nicholson is very entertaining, but he isn't the Joker. He plays the part like his character from "The Shining" in clown makeup. He isn't bad, and I quite enjoy his performance, but he isn't the defining interpretation of the character.

JediMaster said:

Nicholson is very entertaining, but he isn't the Joker. He plays the part like his character from "The Shining" in clown makeup. He isn't bad, and I quite enjoy his performance, but he isn't the defining interpretation of the character.

EXACTLY!

I will say this - I love Burton's version of Gotham City.

EmmaMcG said:

I know this thread is supposed to be about the new Batman/Superman movie and I don't mean to further derail it but can anybody suggest any good Batman comic books or better yet novels. Thanks x

There are so many, I don´t know where to start, and it´s past midnight here, so I am a bit tired...but here are a few must-reads:

Killing Joke

The Dark Knight Returns(by Frank Miller....love the first part, hate the second one, and can´t stand rightwing Frank Miller these days).

The Lazarus Pit .....basically any O´Neill/Adams collabo that has Ras Al Ghul as the villain and some Bruce Wayne, / Thalia Al Ghul love story. I know, I know, it´s totally oldschool but I still love those oldschool graphic novels.

JediMaster said:

It's amazing to me...as good as the DC Television universe is (Arrow, Flash, Constantine), the cinematic universe is looking to be proportionatly bad. From the miscasting of Will Smith as Deadshot, to the horrid looking Doomsday, to the terrible tattoos on the Joker...it just looks like a trainwreck. Hope I'm wrong.

Don't forget Gotham and Super Girl

KoolEaze said:

EmmaMcG said:

Neversin said:

No... Batman has to be a tortured, unhinged psychopath who's always on the verge of dismantling anything and anyone when needed... That to me is Batman, a guy who isn't any different from his Rogues gallery...

Neversin.

[Edited 12/15/15 2:48am]

Does that not make him a villain then? I've always thought of Batman as being James Bond crossed with Zorro. Admittedly, my knowledge of comics is limited. But I'd rather cheer for my idea of Batman than a maniac in a batsuit. [Edited 12/15/15 9:17am]

Not really, his mantra of not killing anyone is too strong, but the guy is as damaged as they come and it shows in his trust in, and methods of handling, friend and foe...

And here's a (rather cliche) list of awesome Batman novels:

Batman: Year One
The Dark Knight Returns
Batman: Hush
The Long Halloween
Arkham Asylum
The Man who Laughs
The Killing Joke
Dark Victory
A Death In The Family
Knightfall series
Gotham By Gaslight
Thrillkiller
Son Of The Demon

There are so many more (hidden) gems, but these are the easiest to get into...


Neversin.