PurpleJedi said:

I've been meaning to get this.



It does seem completely plausible to think that there could have been an advanced civilization in ancient times that has been lost to time.

There was an account by an ancient Greek figure whose name escapes me at this time, who stated that when the Great Library at Alexandria burned down, humanity lost 3,000 years of history. Can you imagine what information was in those scrolls???

Would be great 2 see what was there.

[Edited 11/17/15 11:13am]

I'm no expert or anything, so I don't really have comments here, but I'm reading "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies" at the moment. Very interesting book. Aims to explain the differences in socities in different regions of the world in the last ca. 13,000 years.

http://www.amazon.de/Guns-Germs-Steel-Fates-Societies/dp/0393317552

Graycap23 said:

PurpleJedi said:

I've been meaning to get this.



It does seem completely plausible to think that there could have been an advanced civilization in ancient times that has been lost to time.

There was an account by an ancient Greek figure whose name escapes me at this time, who stated that when the Great Library at Alexandria burned down, humanity lost 3,000 years of history. Can you imagine what information was in those scrolls???

Would be great 2 see what was there.

[Edited 11/17/15 11:13am]

i have this geek fantasy that after the first attack on alexandria where the shipping records library was burned down *they* moved the real library and hid it at petra....... i just don't think they would have risked leaving it where it was in the city after the burning of the library of records. hope it's discovered somewhere, someday

[Edited 11/18/15 1:03am]

PurpleJedi said:

I've been meaning to get this.



It does seem completely plausible to think that there could have been an advanced civilization in ancient times that has been lost to time.

There was an account by an ancient Greek figure whose name escapes me at this time, who stated that when the Great Library at Alexandria burned down, humanity lost 3,000 years of history. Can you imagine what information was in those scrolls???

Yeah, it was burned a few times (although it wasn't always in the same building). The first time was an accident, and most of the books that were destroyed were able to be replaced. The account you're probably referring to came from an historian called Socrates (not the extremely famous philosopher) and describes the library being destroyed as part of a purge of pagan stuff by a particularly keen pope.

Phishanga said:

I'm no expert or anything, so I don't really have comments here, but I'm reading "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies" at the moment. Very interesting book. Aims to explain the differences in socities in different regions of the world in the last ca. 13,000 years.

http://www.amazon.de/Guns-Germs-Steel-Fates-Societies/dp/0393317552

I've not read that, but it tends to be generally pretty well regarded (mutterings about environmental determinism notwithstanding). Have you read Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed, also by Diamond?

NorthC said:

What's environmental determinism?

It's a theory that was popular for a long time, but fell out of favour a while ago (it was pretty much binned entirely by the 1950's). It tended to have nasty colonial/racist type aspects to it. It basically says that people's environment is the main factor that moulds their outlook, and therefore society. It would suggest, for example, that nice warm places like Africa were full of people whose ancestors hadn't had to work as hard as northern Europeans to survive in harsher conditions, and that they were therefore lazier and less likely to accomplish much.

(edited for typo)

[Edited 11/18/15 3:31am]

Graycap 23 said:

there is the school of (related) thought that says the following in regard to the 'great sphinx'.

Was the Great Sphinx of Giza originally an Anubis?

: http://skeptics.stackexch...-an-anubis

Robert Temple reveals that the Sphinx was originally a monumental Anubis, the Egyptian jackal god, and that its face is that of a Middle Kingdom Pharaoh, Amenemhet II, which was a later re-carving. In addition, he provides photographic evidence of ancient sluice gate traces to demonstrate that, during the Old Kingdom, the Sphinx as Anubis sat surrounded by a moat filled with water-called Jackal Lake in the ancient Pyramid Texts-where religious ceremonies were held. He also provides evidence that the exact size and position of the Sphinx were geometrically determined in relation to the pyramids of Cheops and Chephren and that it was part of a pharaonic resurrection cult.

^ cool theory about anubis, thanks for the links!

free2bfreeda said:

Graycap 23 said:

At this point in human history, there seems 2 be a great more we DON'T know than we know. Especially about activity related to B.C.

there is the school of (related) thought that says the following in regard to the 'great sphinx'.

Was the Great Sphinx of Giza originally an Anubis?

: http://skeptics.stackexch...-an-anubis

Robert Temple reveals that the Sphinx was originally a monumental Anubis, the Egyptian jackal god, and that its face is that of a Middle Kingdom Pharaoh, Amenemhet II, which was a later re-carving. In addition, he provides photographic evidence of ancient sluice gate traces to demonstrate that, during the Old Kingdom, the Sphinx as Anubis sat surrounded by a moat filled with water-called Jackal Lake in the ancient Pyramid Texts-where religious ceremonies were held. He also provides evidence that the exact size and position of the Sphinx were geometrically determined in relation to the pyramids of Cheops and Chephren and that it was part of a pharaonic resurrection cult.

as far as the age of the (so called) original anubis faced sphinx, seems there is a difference of opinion of the age being 800,000yrs old as posted by the op.

however over the milleniums many historical sites, constructions and great buildings have been modified, remodified and on to satisfy the mindset of the current peoples inhabiting the land(s).

(for example: the u s white house dome has been modified more than 2 times over a short period of time.)

>

the following worth checking out (if interested)

What was the Sphinx?

: http://www.newdawnmagazin...the-sphinx

Robert Temple is hilarious. He's another fraudulent pseudo-historical woo merchant. There are plenty of them, sadly.

http://www.jasoncolavito....-professor

[Edited 11/18/15 6:11am]

XxAxX said:

Graycap23 said:

Would be great 2 see what was there.

[Edited 11/17/15 11:13am]

i have this geek fantasy that after the first attack on alexandria where the shipping records library was burned down *they* moved the real library and hid it at petra....... i just don't think they would have risked leaving it where it was in the city after the burning of the library of records. hope it's discovered somewhere, someday

[Edited 11/18/15 1:03am]

Unless it was destroyed on purpose................it just might.

Graycap23 said:

XxAxX said:

i have this geek fantasy that after the first attack on alexandria where the shipping records library was burned down *they* moved the real library and hid it at petra....... i just don't think they would have risked leaving it where it was in the city after the burning of the library of records. hope it's discovered somewhere, someday

[Edited 11/18/15 1:03am]

Unless it was destroyed on purpose................it just might.

Yes, it was destroyed (for the last time) on the orders of a pope who didn't like that it contained loads of pagan stuff.

Lianachan said:

Graycap23 said:

Unless it was destroyed on purpose................it just might.

Yes, it was destroyed (for the last time) on the orders of a pope who didn't like that it contained loads of pagan stuff.

Well that settles it.

Graycap23 said:

Lianachan said:

Yes, it was destroyed (for the last time) on the orders of a pope who didn't like that it contained loads of pagan stuff.

Well that settles it.

It's highly likely that it didn't contain the only copies in existence of many of the things it held. Plenty ancient texts have survived and they do still turn up from time to time (although we won't, of course, know if there had also been a copy in Alexandria).

Lianachan said:

Phishanga said:

I'm no expert or anything, so I don't really have comments here, but I'm reading "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies" at the moment. Very interesting book. Aims to explain the differences in socities in different regions of the world in the last ca. 13,000 years.

http://www.amazon.de/Guns-Germs-Steel-Fates-Societies/dp/0393317552

I've not read that, but it tends to be generally pretty well regarded (mutterings about environmental determinism notwithstanding). Have you read Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed, also by Diamond?

No, but once I'm through with this, I'll look it up. Thanks.

Lianachan said:

NorthC said:

What's environmental determinism?

It's a theory that was popular for a long time, but fell out of favour a while ago (it was pretty much binned entirely by the 1950's). It tended to have nasty colonial/racist type aspects to it. It basically says that people's environment is the main factor that moulds their outlook, and therefore society. It would suggest, for example, that nice warm places like Africa were full of people whose ancestors hadn't had to work as hard as northern Europeans to survive in harsher conditions, and that they were therefore lazier and less likely to accomplish much.

(edited for typo)

[Edited 11/18/15 3:31am]

That would indeed seem a like a very harsh statement/example, and I can see the racism there. But for me it seems pretty logical that over a long time (and especially ages ago when the climate surely was an even bigger factor for people), leads to different developments - withouth adding this "judgemental" view.

Graycap23 said:

Lianachan said:

Yes, it was destroyed (for the last time) on the orders of a pope who didn't like that it contained loads of pagan stuff.

Well that settles it.

Phishanga said:

Lianachan said:

It's a theory that was popular for a long time, but fell out of favour a while ago (it was pretty much binned entirely by the 1950's). It tended to have nasty colonial/racist type aspects to it. It basically says that people's environment is the main factor that moulds their outlook, and therefore society. It would suggest, for example, that nice warm places like Africa were full of people whose ancestors hadn't had to work as hard as northern Europeans to survive in harsher conditions, and that they were therefore lazier and less likely to accomplish much.

(edited for typo)

[Edited 11/18/15 3:31am]

That would indeed seem a like a very harsh statement/example, and I can see the racism there. But for me it seems pretty logical that over a long time (and especially ages ago when the climate surely was an even bigger factor for people), leads to different developments - withouth adding this "judgemental" view.

The example I gave isn't the be all and end all of the theory, it was an intentionally extreme example to show what that kind of thinking could (and did) lead to. Yes, environment must be an important factor, but it's not the only (or even main) one at play. That's why nobody takes it seriously any more, the evidence just didn't stack up.

Lianachan said:

free2bfreeda said:

Graycap 23 said:

there is the school of (related) thought that says the following in regard to the 'great sphinx'.

Was the Great Sphinx of Giza originally an Anubis?

: http://skeptics.stackexch...-an-anubis

Robert Temple reveals that the Sphinx was originally a monumental Anubis, the Egyptian jackal god, and that its face is that of a Middle Kingdom Pharaoh, Amenemhet II, which was a later re-carving. In addition, he provides photographic evidence of ancient sluice gate traces to demonstrate that, during the Old Kingdom, the Sphinx as Anubis sat surrounded by a moat filled with water-called Jackal Lake in the ancient Pyramid Texts-where religious ceremonies were held. He also provides evidence that the exact size and position of the Sphinx were geometrically determined in relation to the pyramids of Cheops and Chephren and that it was part of a pharaonic resurrection cult.

as far as the age of the (so called) original anubis faced sphinx, seems there is a difference of opinion of the age being 800,000yrs old as posted by the op.

however over the milleniums many historical sites, constructions and great buildings have been modified, remodified and on to satisfy the mindset of the current peoples inhabiting the land(s).

(for example: the u s white house dome has been modified more than 2 times over a short period of time.)

>

the following worth checking out (if interested)

What was the Sphinx?

: http://www.newdawnmagazin...the-sphinx

Robert Temple is hilarious. He's another fraudulent pseudo-historical woo merchant. There are plenty of them, sadly.

http://www.jasoncolavito....-professor

[Edited 11/18/15 6:11am]

fraudulent pseudo? seems the link provided is moreso from a skeptic who relishes in debuncing all but his self.

: https://en.wikipedia.org/..._G._Temple

Robert K. G. Temple (born 1945) is an American author best known for his controversial book The Sirius Mystery (published in 1976 though he began writing it in 1967). The book presents the hypothesis that the Dogon people preserve a tradition of contact with intelligent extraterrestrial beings from the Sirius star system.^[1]

His writings on the Dogon are based on an interpretation of the work of ethnographers Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen.

Other books by Temple are The Genius of China, The Crystal Sun, The Sphinx Mystery, and Egyptian Dawn.

He has also written several articles for Time Life and has contributed to journals such as the New Scientist.

He lives in England with his wife Olivia.

Career

Temple was an undergraduate in Oriental studies and Sanskrit from the University of Pennsylvania in 1965. He was a fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and an occasional broadcaster with the BBC.

it's pretty much like graycap23 says:

You did notice the part in that about aliens, yes? Yet you're maintaining he's completely legit?

free2bfreeda said:

Graycap 23 said:

At this point in human history, there seems 2 be a great more we DON'T know than we know. Especially about activity related to B.C.

there is the school of (related) thought that says the following in regard to the 'great sphinx'.

Was the Great Sphinx of Giza originally an Anubis?

: http://skeptics.stackexch...-an-anubis

Robert Temple reveals that the Sphinx was originally a monumental Anubis, the Egyptian jackal god, and that its face is that of a Middle Kingdom Pharaoh, Amenemhet II, which was a later re-carving. In addition, he provides photographic evidence of ancient sluice gate traces to demonstrate that, during the Old Kingdom, the Sphinx as Anubis sat surrounded by a moat filled with water-called Jackal Lake in the ancient Pyramid Texts-where religious ceremonies were held. He also provides evidence that the exact size and position of the Sphinx were geometrically determined in relation to the pyramids of Cheops and Chephren and that it was part of a pharaonic resurrection cult.

as far as the age of the (so called) original anubis faced sphinx, seems there is a difference of opinion of the age being 800,000yrs old as posted by the op.

however over the milleniums many historical sites, constructions and great buildings have been modified, remodified and on to satisfy the mindset of the current peoples inhabiting the land(s).

(for example: the u s white house dome has been modified more than 2 times over a short period of time.)

>

the following worth checking out (if interested)

What was the Sphinx?

: http://www.newdawnmagazin...the-sphinx

Interesting.

It is as clear as the nose on my face that the "face" on the Sphinx does not match the body. The proportions are laughably off, and inconsistent with the skill of the peoples who built the thing.

I've also read that it was a lion's head, based on ancient lion cults (or beast cults) that predated the classic Egyptian dieties.

Lianachan said:

You did notice the part in that about aliens, yes? Yet you're maintaining he's completely legit?

I need time to digest everything posted...but I am one of those people who doesn't completely dismiss the "extraterrestrial" theories concerning our ancient cultural beginnings.

I don't subscribe to it 100%, but I don't dismiss it outright either.

I've been meaning to devote some time to the matter.

PurpleJedi said:

Lianachan said:

You did notice the part in that about aliens, yes? Yet you're maintaining he's completely legit?

I need time to digest everything posted...but I am one of those people who doesn't completely dismiss the "extraterrestrial" theories concerning our ancient cultural beginnings.

I don't subscribe to it 100%, but I don't dismiss it outright either.

I've been meaning to devote some time to the matter.

Once you research it, you'll discover that there's absolutely no requirement whatsoever for alien involvement in any of it. You'll also discover that there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that aliens even exist at all, let alone have been ever to Earth. I'm sure they must be out there somewhere, statistically, though.

Edited afterthought - this shambles of a thread has, at least, so far been mercifully free of alien related woo.

[Edited 11/18/15 9:20am]

PurpleJedi said:

Lianachan said:

You did notice the part in that about aliens, yes? Yet you're maintaining he's completely legit?

I need time to digest everything posted...but I am one of those people who doesn't completely dismiss the "extraterrestrial" theories concerning our ancient cultural beginnings.

I don't subscribe to it 100%, but I don't dismiss it outright either.

I've been meaning to devote some time to the matter.

What is your take on this?

Graycap23 said:

PurpleJedi said:

I need time to digest everything posted...but I am one of those people who doesn't completely dismiss the "extraterrestrial" theories concerning our ancient cultural beginnings.

I don't subscribe to it 100%, but I don't dismiss it outright either.

I've been meaning to devote some time to the matter.

What is your take on this?

UNAS PYRAMID TEXTS and FLYING IN ANCIENT EGYPT

Unas was the first pharaoh of the 5th dynasty (2356-2323 B.C.). The walls of the burial chamber in the Unas pyramid contain hieroglyphic inscriptions from the floor to the ceiling—the most ancient of the famed Pyramid Texts. The Unas texts are written in an old dialect of Egyptian containing many words obscure even to the ancient Egyptian temple priests, and are generally believed to be handed down from predynastic times. The Unas texts mark the next-oldest mention of the god Osiris—the oldest being the Palermo Stone.

Summarised nicely by the rationalwiki:

Only two or three photographs of the inscription are generally circulated to back up the "Abydos Helicopter" argument. One of them appears to have been digitally "cleaned" to make the inscription look much "tidier" than its actual state. This itself has raised several eyebrows in academia, and the low resolution of the images supplied as "proof" does nothing to sway those concerned with academic concerns over "creative" interpretations of Egyptian history. The inscription itself is actually in the dark recesses near the temple roof, and is in fact almost impossible to see with any degree of clarity from the ground.

The lack of any surviving examples of the craft that the advocates of the Abydos Helicopter claim the inscription depicts is no deterrent to the belief. Neither is the lack of any other inscription in any other Egyptian monument whatsoever, or any mention of said craft in any Egyptian literature whatsoever. Nor indeed, any mention of the Atlanteans/Little Green Men who brought such technology to them. The silence of the Egyptians on this crushing and awe inspiring degree of technology compared to their rivals is curious, given their unending enthusiasm for characteristically immodest statements of their own greatness and superiority over foreign rivals.

The case for re-carving is overwhelming. Not only are there innumerable examples of exactly the same practices being employed at other sites throughout Egypt, but reconstructions of the original and modified texts, prior the deterioration of the plaster layer, have also been reconstructed to make an entirely rational and plausible argument for the alteration of the titulary of Seti I to that of Ramesses II.

To summarize, therefore, we can conclude that the "Abydos helicopter" is, in fact, irrational bullshit.

How about this?

https://www.google.com/search?q=egyptian+plane+trinket&espv=2&biw=1680&bih=881&tbm=isch&imgil=XQKsWJXCoHPF6M%253A%253BHqALgYNtvpsp1M%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.pinterest.com%25252Fpin%25252F542191242609931781%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=XQKsWJXCoHPF6M%253A%252CHqALgYNtvpsp1M%252C_&usg=__wU5c1xlhw2BQ7C0kTV_89tPGWjQ%3D&ved=0CCsQyjdqFQoTCIq1zY3CmskCFUdMJgodR6ILFw&ei=8LdMVor9JceYmQHHxK64AQ#imgrc=XQKsWJXCoHPF6M%3A&usg=__wU5c1xlhw2BQ7C0kTV_89tPGWjQ%3D

Lianachan said:

That's not evidence for human civilisation at all. The footprints are very cool, but the website does kind of create a false impression about them (unsurprisingly, as it's a woo site). They were not created by modern humans, or even our species. The paper which the archaeologists published about the find says:

Happisburgh has the earliest evidence of hominin footprints outside Africa, dating to between ca. 1 and 0.78 My with estimated body dimensions that fall within the range of the evidence from Homo antecessor fossils.

By coincidence, I met Dr Richard Bates last night. He was heavily involved in this, and was one of the authors of the paper I quoted. Small world.

Graycap23 said:

How about this?

https://www.google.com/search?q=egyptian+plane+trinket&espv=2&biw=1680&bih=881&tbm=isch&imgil=XQKsWJXCoHPF6M%253A%253BHqALgYNtvpsp1M%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.pinterest.com%25252Fpin%25252F542191242609931781%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=XQKsWJXCoHPF6M%253A%252CHqALgYNtvpsp1M%252C_&usg=__wU5c1xlhw2BQ7C0kTV_89tPGWjQ%3D&ved=0CCsQyjdqFQoTCIq1zY3CmskCFUdMJgodR6ILFw&ei=8LdMVor9JceYmQHHxK64AQ#imgrc=XQKsWJXCoHPF6M%3A&usg=__wU5c1xlhw2BQ7C0kTV_89tPGWjQ%3D

I'm guessing you're probably referring to the Quimbaya artifacts. What do you think they are, and why?

Graycap23 said:

PurpleJedi said:

I need time to digest everything posted...but I am one of those people who doesn't completely dismiss the "extraterrestrial" theories concerning our ancient cultural beginnings.

I don't subscribe to it 100%, but I don't dismiss it outright either.

I've been meaning to devote some time to the matter.

What is your take on this?

UNAS PYRAMID TEXTS and FLYING IN ANCIENT EGYPT

Unas was the first pharaoh of the 5th dynasty (2356-2323 B.C.). The walls of the burial chamber in the Unas pyramid contain hieroglyphic inscriptions from the floor to the ceiling—the most ancient of the famed Pyramid Texts. The Unas texts are written in an old dialect of Egyptian containing many words obscure even to the ancient Egyptian temple priests, and are generally believed to be handed down from predynastic times. The Unas texts mark the next-oldest mention of the god Osiris—the oldest being the Palermo Stone.

.

i'm watching a cool documentary on the history channel called 'the lost pyramid' about the 'fabled' fourth pyramid at abu rawash.

.

seems like there are as many interpretations of what is being found as there are archeologists doing the finding.

.

moreover, the documentary addresses the ongoing question of where the sphinx came from. there are many theories, and NO definitive answer as of yet

.

[Edited 11/19/15 3:40am]