duccichucka said:

uPtoWnNY said:

Colin Kaepernick is done in SF. Like RG3, NFL defenses figured him out, and he didn't adjust. Wonder who'll pick him up?

What does that even mean: "defenses have figured him out"? Why haven't defenses figured
out Tom Brady? They've had fourteen years to figure out how to stop Brady, but nobody has.
No; I think what's happened is that Kaepernick has lost confidence, he lost the locker room,
and lost having a coach who knew the position very well who could actually coach him, and on
top of all that, he was injured, at least this year.

Giants know how to in the Superbowl, twice.

kpowers said:

duccichucka said:

What does that even mean: "defenses have figured him out"? Why haven't defenses figured
out Tom Brady? They've had fourteen years to figure out how to stop Brady, but nobody has.
No; I think what's happened is that Kaepernick has lost confidence, he lost the locker room,
and lost having a coach who knew the position very well who could actually coach him, and on
top of all that, he was injured, at least this year.

Giants know how to in the Superbowl, twice.

Not true.

David Tyree makes the luckiest catch of all time in their first meeting, while Wes Welker drops
a catchable ball in their second meeting, stopping a winning drive. The Giants have hardly
"figured out" Tom Brady.

Plus, my question is more rhetorical; defenses don't "figure out" quarterbacks.

duccichucka said:

kpowers said:

Giants know how to in the Superbowl, twice.

Not true.

David Tyree makes the luckiest catch of all time in their first meeting, while Wes Welker drops
a catchable ball in their second meeting, stopping a winning drive. The Giants have hardly
"figured out" Tom Brady.

Plus, my question is more rhetorical; defenses don't "figure out" quarterbacks.

OK, but in the end the Giants beat the Partiots in the Super Bowl twice and that all that really matters.

kpowers said:

duccichucka said:

Not true.

David Tyree makes the luckiest catch of all time in their first meeting, while Wes Welker drops
a catchable ball in their second meeting, stopping a winning drive. The Giants have hardly
"figured out" Tom Brady.

Plus, my question is more rhetorical; defenses don't "figure out" quarterbacks.

OK, but in the end the Giants beat the Partiots in the Super Bowl twice and that all that really matters.

OK, but that's besides the point. You're turning this into something unrelated to my
original query, which pertains to questioning whether defenses "figure out" quarter-
backs, which I find to be dubious, as it suggests that the more successful quarterbacks
are never "figured out", which is ridiculous.

duccichucka said:

kpowers said:

OK, but in the end the Giants beat the Partiots in the Super Bowl twice and that all that really matters.

OK, but that's besides the point. You're turning this into something unrelated to my
original query, which pertains to questioning whether defenses "figure out" quarter-
backs, which I find to be dubious, as it suggests that the more successful quarterbacks
are never "figured out", which is ridiculous.

There are alot of factors. Great O Line always help plus a running game. Coaches do watch film and do know the strength and weakness of a QB so saying they figure out a QB is not that far of a stretch. Yes it is also a mental thing for the QB. To stop Tom Brady right now is to cover Gronkowski (Which has been hard to do).

kpowers said:

duccichucka said:

OK, but that's besides the point. You're turning this into something unrelated to my
original query, which pertains to questioning whether defenses "figure out" quarter-
backs, which I find to be dubious, as it suggests that the more successful quarterbacks
are never "figured out", which is ridiculous.

There are alot of factors. Great O Line always help plus a running game. Coaches do watch film and do know the strength and weakness of a QB so saying they figure out a QB is not that far of a stretch. Yes it is also a mental thing for the QB. To stop Tom Brady right now is to cover Gronkowski (Which has been hard to do).

Just because you know a QB's strengths and weaknesses does not mean you've "figured him
out." For example, coaches have 15 years worth of Tom Brady film to study and attack his
weaknesses. Yet, each year, he puts up great numbers and is in contention to win a Super Bowl.
Joe Montana was not a great QB because defenses never figured him out. He was a great QB
because he was coached well, had a great team, great role players, a great offensive system;
he was gifted, and he stayed injury free for the most part. And every year, defenses knew he
was going to throw slants to Rice and Taylor, or screens to Craig.

I'm sure that defense coordinators pinpointed Kaepernick's weaknesses but there's more to
his descent than that, otherwise all QBs would be subjected to what's befallen him.

duccichucka said:

kpowers said:

There are alot of factors. Great O Line always help plus a running game. Coaches do watch film and do know the strength and weakness of a QB so saying they figure out a QB is not that far of a stretch. Yes it is also a mental thing for the QB. To stop Tom Brady right now is to cover Gronkowski (Which has been hard to do).

Just because you know a QB's strengths and weaknesses does not mean you've "figured him
out." For example, coaches have 15 years worth of Tom Brady film to study and attack his
weaknesses. Yet, each year, he puts up great numbers and is in contention to win a Super Bowl.
Joe Montana was not a great QB because defenses never figured him out. He was a great QB
because he was coached well, had a great team, great role players, a great offensive system;
he was gifted, and he stayed injury free for the most part. And every year, defenses knew he
was going to throw slants to Rice and Taylor, or screens to Craig.

I'm sure that defense coordinators pinpointed Kaepernick's weaknesses but there's more to
his descent than that, otherwise all QBs would be subjected to what's befallen him.

To say that no coach in the history of football has never figured out how to stop a QB is ridiculous. Yes coaches know the strength and weakness of a QB, now being able to implement that is another story. Yes I agree with you about Joe Montana and which is what I said earlier about being in a good system.

[Edited 11/23/15 18:05pm]

duccichucka said:

uPtoWnNY said:

Colin Kaepernick is done in SF. Like RG3, NFL defenses figured him out, and he didn't adjust. Wonder who'll pick him up?

What does that even mean: "defenses have figured him out"? Why haven't defenses figured
out Tom Brady? They've had fourteen years to figure out how to stop Brady, but nobody has.
No; I think what's happened is that Kaepernick has lost confidence, he lost the locker room,
and lost having a coach who knew the position very well who could actually coach him, and on
top of all that, he was injured, at least this year.

Brady is an accurate passer, excels at reading defenses and making plays from the pocket. Kaepernick is a one-trick pony. That can work in college, not at the pro level.

kpowers said:

duccichucka said:

Just because you know a QB's strengths and weaknesses does not mean you've "figured him
out." For example, coaches have 15 years worth of Tom Brady film to study and attack his
weaknesses. Yet, each year, he puts up great numbers and is in contention to win a Super Bowl.
Joe Montana was not a great QB because defenses never figured him out. He was a great QB
because he was coached well, had a great team, great role players, a great offensive system;
he was gifted, and he stayed injury free for the most part. And every year, defenses knew he
was going to throw slants to Rice and Taylor, or screens to Craig.

I'm sure that defense coordinators pinpointed Kaepernick's weaknesses but there's more to
his descent than that, otherwise all QBs would be subjected to what's befallen him.

To say that no coach in the history of football has never figured out how to stop a QB is ridiculous. Yes coaches know the strength and weakness of a QB, now being able to implement that is another story. Yes I agree with you about Joe Montana and which is what I said earlier about being in a good system.

[Edited 11/23/15 18:05pm]

Prove it. Give me an example of a coach studying film and then coming up with a game
plan that ruined an NFL quarterback's career because coaches "figured him out." The reason
why NFL quarterbacks suck is because more than just coaches studying film and learning
about a quarterback's strengths and weaknesses. I've said it three times now: Tom Brady
has fifteen years of film and yet he still puts up numbers. Why hasn't a coach "figured him
out?" Defense coordinators knew exactly what Joe Montana was going to do; why didn't any
one "figure him out?" This applies to other skill players: everyone knew exactly what Emmitt
Smith was going to do, yet was he "figured out?" What about John Riggins running the counter-
trey in Washington? Or, Jerry Rice running west coast offense timing slants; yet, no one
"figured him out."

So, this argument about "figuring a player out" doesn't capture the entire story of why a
quarterback struggles in the NFL. As it pertains to Kaepernick, it doesn't fully capture his
entire story of why he's struggling either.

duccichucka said:

kpowers said:

Giants know how to in the Superbowl, twice.

Not true.

David Tyree makes the luckiest catch of all time in their first meeting, while Wes Welker drops
a catchable ball in their second meeting, stopping a winning drive. The Giants have hardly
"figured out" Tom Brady.

Plus, my question is more rhetorical; defenses don't "figure out" quarterbacks.

Giants beat Brady twice because of their awesome pass rush. Pressure up the middle will throw off any QBs timing.

uPtoWnNY said:

duccichucka said:

What does that even mean: "defenses have figured him out"? Why haven't defenses figured
out Tom Brady? They've had fourteen years to figure out how to stop Brady, but nobody has.
No; I think what's happened is that Kaepernick has lost confidence, he lost the locker room,
and lost having a coach who knew the position very well who could actually coach him, and on
top of all that, he was injured, at least this year.

Brady is an accurate passer, excels at reading defenses and making plays from the pocket. Kaepernick is a one-trick pony. That can work in college, not at the pro level.

You mean to tell me that NFL coaches, scouts, and general managers still haven't "figured out"
that successful running quarterbacks in college don't always translate those skills and that success
to the NFL? Of course they have! This means, then, that the aforementioned saw the skill level
and the talent of Kaepernick and selected him because they thought he would not only be able
to read coverages and make plays from the pocket, but scramble as well.

I do not believe that teams are still selecting QBs who can't stand in the pocket and sling it just
as well as they can scramble. No; what happened to Kaepernick speaks more about coaching,
team leadership, and injuries than it does to him being a one trick pony or somebody "figuring
him out", whatever that means.

uPtoWnNY said:

duccichucka said:

Not true.

David Tyree makes the luckiest catch of all time in their first meeting, while Wes Welker drops
a catchable ball in their second meeting, stopping a winning drive. The Giants have hardly
"figured out" Tom Brady.

Plus, my question is more rhetorical; defenses don't "figure out" quarterbacks.

Giants beat Brady twice because of their awesome pass rush. Pressure up the middle will throw off any QBs timing.

Giants beat the Patriots twice because of their awesome pass rush, and luck as their defense
had nothing to do with David Tyree's catch or Wes Welker's drop. If you're going to tell the
story, tell the whole story.

But yes, sending a fierce pass rush against any QB will cause disruption. But that's not exactly
a coach "figuring out" Tom Brady as that applies to most, if not all quarterbacks.

uPtoWnNY said:

duccichucka said:

phunkdaddy said:

duccichucka said:

Giants beat the Patriots twice because of their awesome pass rush, and luck as their defense
had nothing to do with David Tyree's catch or Wes Welker's drop. If you're going to tell the
story, tell the whole story.

But yes, sending a fierce pass rush against any QB will cause disruption. But that's not exactly
a coach "figuring out" Tom Brady as that applies to most, if not all quarterbacks.

Dude now you're coming up with what ifs. That happens in almost every game. You can look at the other side of the if coin. What if Randy Moss hadn't made that TD grab,New England wouldn't have scored in double digits. As explosive as Moss and Brady were and the Patriots offense as a whole how can you not credit the Giants defense for holding that record setting offense that went undefeated during the regular season to 14 points. That was probably the biggest upset in modern Super Bowl history. [Edited 11/24/15 6:20am]

What the fuck are you talking about?! Those aren't "what-ifs." David Tyree made a lucky
catch in the Super Bowl that had nothing to do with the Giants pass rush. And Wes Welker
dropped a pass that had nothing to do with the Giants pass rush. To deny the luck involved
in the Helmet Catch is shortsighted; and math indicates that if Welker makes that grab, the
Pats win.

And looking at the other side of the coin doesn't apply here as the Patriots did not have a
game saving lucky catch in the Super Bowl; and the Giants didn't drop a potentially game
winning ball during a drive to win the Super Bowl.

phunkdaddy said:

uPtoWnNY said:

Giants beat Brady twice because of their awesome pass rush. Pressure up the middle will throw off any QBs timing.

The same formula Baltimore used to beat them in the playoffs twice in Foxboro and nearly done it a 3rd time last season.

That ain't a "formula" as if fiercely rushing the quarterback to prevent him from connecting with
his receivers on timing routes is some new fangled idea. If your front four can cause disruption
in the opponent's backfield while the QB is dropping back to pass, you increase your chances of
getting the offense off of the field.

Duh.

duccichucka said:

phunkdaddy said:

duccichucka said: Dude now you're coming up with what ifs. That happens in almost every game. You can look at the other side of the if coin. What if Randy Moss hadn't made that TD grab,New England wouldn't have scored in double digits. As explosive as Moss and Brady were and the Patriots offense as a whole how can you not credit the Giants defense for holding that record setting offense that went undefeated during the regular season to 14 points. That was probably the biggest upset in modern Super Bowl history. [Edited 11/24/15 6:20am]

What the fuck are you talking about?! Those aren't "what-ifs." David Tyree made a lucky
catch in the Super Bowl that had nothing to do with the Giants pass rush. And Wes Welker
dropped a pass that had nothing to do with the Giants pass rush. To deny the luck involved
in the Helmet Catch is shortsighted; and math indicates that if Welker makes that grab, the
Pats win.

And looking at the other side of the coin doesn't apply here as the Patriots did not have a
game saving lucky catch in the Super Bowl; and the Giants didn't drop a potentially game
winning ball during a drive to win the Super Bowl.

Do you merely understand the Patriots were the most prolific scoring offense in NFL history and came into the game undefeated during the regular season by beating the hell out of most teams that season? Brady and Moss were a 2 man wrecking crew. How the hell do you even suggest the Giants D had nothing to do with them winning the Super Bowl? Tom Brady even snickered before the Super Bowl when Plaxico predicted the Giants would win 21-17 that he's only giving us 17 points. Helll the Pats only scored 14. David Tyree don't play a lick of defense. Without the Giants D holding the Pats to 7 points for damn near 57 minutes Tyree's catch would be irrelevant. What applies here as you're the only one who is trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit because you have no argument here. The Giants defense on the leagues best offense that year was hugely responsible for the upset. By the way Plaxico Burress made the game winning td pass

despite the argument you're making for Tyree and Welker's drop.

phunkdaddy said:

duccichucka said:

What the fuck are you talking about?! Those aren't "what-ifs." David Tyree made a lucky
catch in the Super Bowl that had nothing to do with the Giants pass rush. And Wes Welker
dropped a pass that had nothing to do with the Giants pass rush. To deny the luck involved
in the Helmet Catch is shortsighted; and math indicates that if Welker makes that grab, the
Pats win.

And looking at the other side of the coin doesn't apply here as the Patriots did not have a
game saving lucky catch in the Super Bowl; and the Giants didn't drop a potentially game
winning ball during a drive to win the Super Bowl.

Do you merely understand the Patriots were the most prolific scoring offense in NFL history and came into the game undefeated during the regular season by beating the hell out of most teams that season? Brady and Moss were a 2 man wrecking crew. How the hell do you even suggest the Giants D had nothing to do with them winning the Super Bowl? Tom Brady even snickered before the Super Bowl when Plaxico predicted the Giants would win 21-17 that he's only giving us 17 points. Helll the Pats only scored 14. David Tyree don't play a lick of defense. Without the Giants D holding the Pats to 7 points for damn near 57 minutes Tyree's catch would be irrelevant. What applies here as you're the only one who is trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit because you have no argument here. The Giants defense on the leagues best offense that year was hugely responsible for the upset. By the way Plaxico Burress made the game winning td pass

despite the argument you're making for Tyree and Welker's drop.

Nowhere in my posts regarding the Giants defeat of the New England Patriots do I not give their
defense any credit. I specifically said:

"Giants beat the Patriots twice because of their awesome pass rush, and luck as their defense
had nothing to do with David Tyree's catch or Wes Welker's drop. If you're going to tell the
story, tell the whole story."

Again, to suggest that it was merely a pass rush up the middle that cost the Patriots two Super
Bowls against the Giants as Uptown suggests is shortsighted. And that piece you added about
Burress' game winning score has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

duccichucka said:

kpowers said:

To say that no coach in the history of football has never figured out how to stop a QB is ridiculous. Yes coaches know the strength and weakness of a QB, now being able to implement that is another story. Yes I agree with you about Joe Montana and which is what I said earlier about being in a good system.

[Edited 11/23/15 18:05pm]

Prove it. Give me an example of a coach studying film and then coming up with a game
plan that ruined an NFL quarterback's career because coaches "figured him out." The reason
why NFL quarterbacks suck is because more than just coaches studying film and learning
about a quarterback's strengths and weaknesses. I've said it three times now: Tom Brady
has fifteen years of film and yet he still puts up numbers. Why hasn't a coach "figured him
out?" Defense coordinators knew exactly what Joe Montana was going to do; why didn't any
one "figure him out?" This applies to other skill players: everyone knew exactly what Emmitt
Smith was going to do, yet was he "figured out?" What about John Riggins running the counter-
trey in Washington? Or, Jerry Rice running west coast offense timing slants; yet, no one
"figured him out."

So, this argument about "figuring a player out" doesn't capture the entire story of why a
quarterback struggles in the NFL. As it pertains to Kaepernick, it doesn't fully capture his
entire story of why he's struggling either.

You base everything on winning teams with a good system. Would Brady be good if he was in Jacksonville?

duccichucka said:

phunkdaddy said:

Do you merely understand the Patriots were the most prolific scoring offense in NFL history and came into the game undefeated during the regular season by beating the hell out of most teams that season? Brady and Moss were a 2 man wrecking crew. How the hell do you even suggest the Giants D had nothing to do with them winning the Super Bowl? Tom Brady even snickered before the Super Bowl when Plaxico predicted the Giants would win 21-17 that he's only giving us 17 points. Helll the Pats only scored 14. David Tyree don't play a lick of defense. Without the Giants D holding the Pats to 7 points for damn near 57 minutes Tyree's catch would be irrelevant. What applies here as you're the only one who is trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit because you have no argument here. The Giants defense on the leagues best offense that year was hugely responsible for the upset. By the way Plaxico Burress made the game winning td pass

despite the argument you're making for Tyree and Welker's drop.

Nowhere in my posts regarding the Giants defeat of the New England Patriots do I not give their
defense any credit. I specifically said:

"Giants beat the Patriots twice because of their awesome pass rush, and luck as their defense
had nothing to do with David Tyree's catch or Wes Welker's drop. If you're going to tell the
story, tell the whole story."

Again, to suggest that it was merely a pass rush up the middle that cost the Patriots two Super
Bowls against the Giants as Uptown suggests is shortsighted. And that piece you added about
Burress' game winning score has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

Sorry gonna have to agree 100% with phunkdaddy

phunkdaddy said:

Another color blind game tonight featuring the Jaguars and their

cool all gold unis and the Titans wearing all blue. Other than that

watch WWE or Grey's Anatomy.

The game kinda had a Star Trek feel to it

duccichucka said:

kpowers said:

To say that no coach in the history of football has never figured out how to stop a QB is ridiculous. Yes coaches know the strength and weakness of a QB, now being able to implement that is another story. Yes I agree with you about Joe Montana and which is what I said earlier about being in a good system.

[Edited 11/23/15 18:05pm]

Prove it. Give me an example of a coach studying film and then coming up with a game
plan that ruined an NFL quarterback's career because coaches "figured him out." The reason
why NFL quarterbacks suck is because more than just coaches studying film and learning
about a quarterback's strengths and weaknesses. I've said it three times now: Tom Brady
has fifteen years of film and yet he still puts up numbers. Why hasn't a coach "figured him
out?" Defense coordinators knew exactly what Joe Montana was going to do; why didn't any
one "figure him out?" This applies to other skill players: everyone knew exactly what Emmitt
Smith was going to do, yet was he "figured out?" What about John Riggins running the counter-
trey in Washington? Or, Jerry Rice running west coast offense timing slants; yet, no one
"figured him out."

So, this argument about "figuring a player out" doesn't capture the entire story of why a
quarterback struggles in the NFL. As it pertains to Kaepernick, it doesn't fully capture his
entire story of why he's struggling either.

It's you that needs to prove to us that in the history of football there was not one game in which a defense figured out how to stop a QB.

kpowers said:

duccichucka said:

Prove it. Give me an example of a coach studying film and then coming up with a game
plan that ruined an NFL quarterback's career because coaches "figured him out." The reason
why NFL quarterbacks suck is because more than just coaches studying film and learning
about a quarterback's strengths and weaknesses. I've said it three times now: Tom Brady
has fifteen years of film and yet he still puts up numbers. Why hasn't a coach "figured him
out?" Defense coordinators knew exactly what Joe Montana was going to do; why didn't any
one "figure him out?" This applies to other skill players: everyone knew exactly what Emmitt
Smith was going to do, yet was he "figured out?" What about John Riggins running the counter-
trey in Washington? Or, Jerry Rice running west coast offense timing slants; yet, no one
"figured him out."

So, this argument about "figuring a player out" doesn't capture the entire story of why a
quarterback struggles in the NFL. As it pertains to Kaepernick, it doesn't fully capture his
entire story of why he's struggling either.

You base everything on winning teams with a good system. Would Brady be good if he was in Jacksonville?

Um, yeah? If I can show you one quarterback who contradicts your argument, then that means
that your argument is not sound. If if you say that Kaepernick is not good anymore because
teams have "figured him out," all I have to do to show that is not the case is to point out a QB
who has given opposing defenses plenty of footage and film to study who still plays well despite
this fact.

So duh; of course I'm going to select Tom Brady. Teams didn't "figure out" Kaepernick, just
like they haven't "figured out" Tom Brady or Russell Wilson or Elvis Grbac or Steve DeBerg or
Randall Cunningham or Doug Flutie or Don Majkowski or Ben Roethlisberger or any other old
school or new school QB. The reasons why Kaepernick has struggled may be due to:

1. He's injured (isn't he having season ending surgery?)

2. He's no longer being well coached (Harbaugh was a QB)

3. He's lost his confidence

4. His team has lost confidence in him

5. He didn't have a running game that defenses had to respect

6. His team is in disarray due to poor drafting and dismal leadership in the front office


Like I said, if defenses haven't figured out Tom Brady, and he's been playing for 15 years
in pretty much the same offensive scheme year after year, then that means that "figuring
out" a quarterback doesn't mean dick.

kpowers said:

duccichucka said:

Nowhere in my posts regarding the Giants defeat of the New England Patriots do I not give their
defense any credit. I specifically said:

"Giants beat the Patriots twice because of their awesome pass rush, and luck as their defense
had nothing to do with David Tyree's catch or Wes Welker's drop. If you're going to tell the
story, tell the whole story."

Again, to suggest that it was merely a pass rush up the middle that cost the Patriots two Super
Bowls against the Giants as Uptown suggests is shortsighted. And that piece you added about
Burress' game winning score has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

Sorry gonna have to agree 100% with phunkdaddy

Of course you do! You didn't think that I thought you were going be objective and
perspicacious about this, did you?

duccichucka said:

kpowers said:

Sorry gonna have to agree 100% with phunkdaddy

Of course you do! You didn't think that I thought you were going be objective and
perspicacious about this, did you?

Sorry but he makes a better argument

IDK - I think Rex Ryan figured out Tom Brady last night. That was painful to watch...even with the win.

duccichucka said:

kpowers said:

You base everything on winning teams with a good system. Would Brady be good if he was in Jacksonville?

Um, yeah? If I can show you one quarterback who contradicts your argument, then that means
that your argument is not sound. If if you say that Kaepernick is not good anymore because
teams have "figured him out," all I have to do to show that is not the case is to point out a QB
who has given opposing defenses plenty of footage and film to study who still plays well despite
this fact.

So duh; of course I'm going to select Tom Brady. Teams didn't "figure out" Kaepernick, just
like they haven't "figured out" Tom Brady or Russell Wilson or Elvis Grbac or Steve DeBerg or
Randall Cunningham or Doug Flutie or Don Majkowski or Ben Roethlisberger or any other old
school or new school QB. The reasons why Kaepernick has struggled may be due to:

1. He's injured (isn't he having season ending surgery?)

2. He's no longer being well coached (Harbaugh was a QB)

3. He's lost his confidence

4. His team has lost confidence in him

5. He didn't have a running game that defenses had to respect

6. His team is in disarray due to poor drafting and dismal leadership in the front office


Like I said, if defenses haven't figured out Tom Brady, and he's been playing for 15 years
in pretty much the same offensive scheme year after year, then that means that "figuring
out" a quarterback doesn't mean dick.

You still haven't proved that there has never been a defense in the history of football that has figured out a QB.

kpowers said:

duccichucka said:

Prove it. Give me an example of a coach studying film and then coming up with a game
plan that ruined an NFL quarterback's career because coaches "figured him out." The reason
why NFL quarterbacks suck is because more than just coaches studying film and learning
about a quarterback's strengths and weaknesses. I've said it three times now: Tom Brady
has fifteen years of film and yet he still puts up numbers. Why hasn't a coach "figured him
out?" Defense coordinators knew exactly what Joe Montana was going to do; why didn't any
one "figure him out?" This applies to other skill players: everyone knew exactly what Emmitt
Smith was going to do, yet was he "figured out?" What about John Riggins running the counter-
trey in Washington? Or, Jerry Rice running west coast offense timing slants; yet, no one
"figured him out."

So, this argument about "figuring a player out" doesn't capture the entire story of why a
quarterback struggles in the NFL. As it pertains to Kaepernick, it doesn't fully capture his
entire story of why he's struggling either.

It's you that needs to prove to us that in the history of football there was not one game in which a defense figured out how to stop a QB.

Are you insane? You initially made the claim that defenses had figured out Kaepernick, so
you prove it!

But here's how I show you that this argument of yours is ridiculous; again:

Tom Brady was drafted in 2000. This means that for fifteen years, defenses have had ample
opportunity to figure him out. So, why does he consistently put up Hall of Fame numbers?

I'll answer this for you:

Tom Brady puts up HoF numbers despite defenses knowing that his run game is going to be
limited; that Brady is slow footed; that Brady's offense depends upon O-line cohesion; that
Brady's targets will be running timing routes; that Gronk really demands double teaming, or
that Randy Moss demanded double teaming; e's gonna have a wideout in the slot who is quick
and a possession receiver. And he does this because:

1. He's gifted at playing QB (and all this entails)

2. He's in a good offensive system

3. He's well coached

4. He's rarely injured

5. He's a leader in the locker room and has the support of the team and he's confident

6. The team's leadership within the front office is on point

Defenses have studied Tom Brady film for almost twenty fucking years and they still can't
stop him because those six reasons are stronger than watching Tom Brady film and "figuring
him out."

kpowers said:

duccichucka said:

Um, yeah? If I can show you one quarterback who contradicts your argument, then that means
that your argument is not sound. If if you say that Kaepernick is not good anymore because
teams have "figured him out," all I have to do to show that is not the case is to point out a QB
who has given opposing defenses plenty of footage and film to study who still plays well despite
this fact.

So duh; of course I'm going to select Tom Brady. Teams didn't "figure out" Kaepernick, just
like they haven't "figured out" Tom Brady or Russell Wilson or Elvis Grbac or Steve DeBerg or
Randall Cunningham or Doug Flutie or Don Majkowski or Ben Roethlisberger or any other old
school or new school QB. The reasons why Kaepernick has struggled may be due to:

1. He's injured (isn't he having season ending surgery?)

2. He's no longer being well coached (Harbaugh was a QB)

3. He's lost his confidence

4. His team has lost confidence in him

5. He didn't have a running game that defenses had to respect

6. His team is in disarray due to poor drafting and dismal leadership in the front office


Like I said, if defenses haven't figured out Tom Brady, and he's been playing for 15 years
in pretty much the same offensive scheme year after year, then that means that "figuring
out" a quarterback doesn't mean dick.

You still haven't proved that there has never been a defense in the history of football that has figured out a QB.

What does that even mean - "figured out?"

Defenses know what Tom Brady is going to do - BUT HE STILL DO WHAT HE DO!

kpowers said:

duccichucka said:

Of course you do! You didn't think that I thought you were going be objective and
perspicacious about this, did you?

Sorry but he makes a better argument

Of course you do! You didn't think that I thought you were going be objective and
perspicacious about this, did you?