So I've had a GF for the last 2 weeks. Naturally, she came to sleep at home several nights and my landlord has made a big fuss that she cannot under no circumstances ever sleep here, that I was free to vacate if I so wished but that it was non-negociable. He actually had mentionned it when I took the crib but for one thing I was planning to stay alone for some time (which I did) and I thought it could be renegociated in due time if needed. Well, it couldn't. The neighboors (from another house) have actually complained to the police that a girl was coming and going in this house. The police has come to bother the landlard (not because of it directly because there is no legal ground for this in India, but because they realized he wasn't registered as renting a flat to a foreigner - his mistake). The landlord fell on us. End of story. What pisses me a lot is that he talked to het like shit this morning when she left for work and I wasn't there. Then he came to talk to me and was more polite but he really treated her like she was the slut of the block (she's not an Indian BTW).

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We can still go to her crib but she has a flatmate so it's not too great and we're both SO pissed.

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I guess I'm gonna get the hell outta here eventually but for different reasons I can't vacate before at least August, so we'll see how things evolve (I'm not even sure I'll stay in India so much longer at this point, so no need to move to another flat if I'm gonna leave the country 2 months later).

You'd heard the ol' man, it was, practically as if we were assassinating the whole Indian culture by having extra-marital sex. All our (young) Indian collegues are extremely shicked, though, they're like 'fuck I can't believe this is still happening in my country!". I have to be fair, though, The old dude's honest and he never gave me shit before (nor will ever again if she doesn't sleep over anymore I guess). But now I feel all the more eager to promote sexual freedom in India (a slow but ungoing and unavoidable process).

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He's granddaughter will get drunk and sleep with dozens of guys. There is nothing he can do to stop it from happening

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God I'm pissed. 38 years old and you can't fucking bring a girl to sleep over, something I was allowed to do when I was friggin' 16!!! I know it's India but HELL AM I PISSED!

my perception of india is that it's still not very liberal about a 'lady's honor', and that it is time for the culture to change in favor of women
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but right now i'm totally crushing on shah rukh kahn, as he is quite chivalrous in his movies and would never compromise a lady's honor by so much as peeking up her skirt

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so, i sympathize but am thinking: what would SRK do?

Interesting situation. Back to sneaking around like I did as a younger man...sounds kind of hot!

This is none of their business, and unless you're having noisy sex, how can the landlord or neighbours even jump to this conclusion?

Cinny said:

This is none of their business, and unless you're having noisy sex, how can the landlord or neighbours even jump to this conclusion?

We could be playing Lego all nite for all they know, the problem is just that she's here in the evening and STILL here in the morning no matter what we do. And yeah this is none of their business except that individualism is only an emerging concept in India, traditionally you don't, ever belong to yourself, you belong to family, then caste/religion, then immediate community/neighborhood, then the company or people that employ you... My managers (German but aware of this) feel free to tell their Indian employees who they can be friends with outside of school and who they can't, and the Indian empoyees say "yes Sir" while any of us Western employee would blow them to hell for pulling that shit on us (which they don't because they know what'd happen).

How did he know she's your girlfriend? Would it be taboo for your sister to visit and sleep over? Jeez, you would think by this time standards would have changed. I bet there are hundreds of Indian men breaking the rules by having relations outside of marriage. How can you stand living in such a judgemental society?

domainator2010 said:

I fucking LIVE here - can you imagine what it's like for ME????

What do u mean "live"? I live here too

U mean u got the Indian passport, too?

Shyra said:

How did he know she's your girlfriend? Would it be taboo for your sister to visit and sleep over? Jeez, you would think by this time standards would have changed. I bet there are hundreds of Indian men breaking the rules by having relations outside of marriage. How can you stand living in such a judgemental society?

Well he sure knows she ain't my sister but my sister would be awright yeah.

India has other advantages over Europe, so living here is usually quite easy. I could just take another appartment and no one would bother me about my GF anymore.

All my Indian friends are shocked by the landlord's behavior, india has changed and things will keep changing a lot when those old folks are all gone, because the new generation is much more open at least in middle and upper classes. My landlord is 75 and all the surrounding houseq in the street are populated by people his age. See how 75 year old Westerners already seem from another world? My landlord was 20 in India in 1959, which is more or less like being 20 in Europe in 1910.

databank said:

Cinny said:

This is none of their business, and unless you're having noisy sex, how can the landlord or neighbours even jump to this conclusion?

We could be playing Lego all nite for all they know, the problem is just that she's here in the evening and STILL here in the morning no matter what we do. And yeah this is none of their business except that individualism is only an emerging concept in India, traditionally you don't, ever belong to yourself, you belong to family, then caste/religion, then immediate community/neighborhood, then the company or people that employ you... My managers (German but aware of this) feel free to tell their Indian employees who they can be friends with outside of school and who they can't, and the Indian empoyees say "yes Sir" while any of us Western employee would blow them to hell for pulling that shit on us (which they don't because they know what'd happen).

To me that's pretty obvious from the population that currently reside in Canada but brought over their values (naturally).

databank said:

domainator2010 said:

I fucking LIVE here - can you imagine what it's like for ME????

What do u mean "live"? I live here too

U mean u got the Indian passport, too?

YES! I FUCKING *AM* INDIAN!

Man so it's ur duty to change things, Im a foreigner I have no power over things here it's not my place, but your generation can make India a freer place for the next generation - I keep telling that to all my Indian friends

India is a wonderful country, with sexual freedom, more civil rights and less corruption it could be such a perfect place!

What the hell do you mean it's not your place? Cop-out! SUE YOUR FUCKING LANDLORD! INTO THE BLOODY GROUND!

.... I also just feel like pointing out that this trend of thought is not unique to India or your landlord - there are women in Western countries who themselves would make life as tough for you as your landlord is. (probably because they don't want to be seen as "easy"). Which is of course, a whole different problem! You need really GOOD sexing skills to get them in bed!

domainator2010 said:

.... I also just feel like pointing out that this trend of thought is not unique to India or your landlord - there are women in Western countries who themselves would make life as tough for you as your landlord is. (probably because they don't want to be seen as "easy"). Which is of course, a whole different problem! You need really GOOD sexing skills to get them in bed!

No, in that u r entirely mistaken. Such behaviors have entirely disappeared 50 years ago in Western Europe. I mean there may be a 0,001% of ultra-religious girls or sumthing but that's it, and u just don't get to meet them anyway because they hang out with their own 0,001% crowds.

domainator2010 said:

What the hell do you mean it's not your place? Cop-out! SUE YOUR FUCKING LANDLORD! INTO THE BLOODY GROUND!

I don't completely trust the judicial system in India, particularly in conservative Tamil Nadu, to be fair to a foreigner in a matter of "conservative morality" vs. "what the law says". And I'm not gonna take that to the fucking Supreme Court when it might involve so much police beating and corruption on BOTH sides that one party'll be dead before it even reaches New Delhi. This is not my country anyway, I can just get outta here if I'm not happy. My place is to give shit to landlords in France and believe me I would (for other reasons because obviously this wouldn't happen there) because there I know how the law works and what are my rights and how to deal with police, lawyers and judges who, by the way, won't be either corrupted or culturally biaised against me. My kids -if I was to have any which I won't- wouldn't grow up in India. Yours will. In that sense it's your place to fight for your kids' future, but me anyone I guess would tell me "who the fuck u think u r to come to our country and mess with an old man who's lived a good life and deserves rest?".

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Also the guy has always be fair and square to me while many Indian landlords cheat the shit outta tenents so I'm not gonna start a war with him over ONE thing when everything else was always fine, I'm just gonna move as soon as I can, which I don't know yet. He's not a bad man, he's extremely honest when it comes to money, and he'd warned me "no girls" from the beginning, so even though it was a verbal agreement it was an agreement. I tried. Didn't work. It's my responsibility to move on, i'm not gonna make a misery of his life while he has so little of it left to live... If he'd given me crap from start yeah maybe I'd do it, but in that case it'd be mean to mess with the old guy's life and I'm not mean.

[Edited 5/2/15 6:56am]

dupe

[Edited 5/2/15 6:50am]

databank said:

domainator2010 said:

.... I also just feel like pointing out that this trend of thought is not unique to India or your landlord - there are women in Western countries who themselves would make life as tough for you as your landlord is. (probably because they don't want to be seen as "easy"). Which is of course, a whole different problem! You need really GOOD sexing skills to get them in bed!

No, in that u r entirely mistaken. Such behaviors have entirely disappeared 50 years ago in Western Europe. I mean there may be a 0,001% of ultra-religious girls or sumthing but that's it, and u just don't get to meet them anyway because they hang out with their own 0,001% crowds.

We spent the WE at her place it was fine. This is what we'll do because HER neighbors don't care (I hope).

However the situation might turn into police harrassment and I'm freaking out. Apparently the police came several times to harrass the landlord this week, accusing him of running a brothel (!), they also wanted to enter my appartrment and waited for me for one hour last night when I was at the GF. They also told the landlord that I was disturbing the neighborhood by listening to music and being awake late at night (no one ever complained in 2 years, it's a bloody excuse). The landlord went to his lawyer today, the lawyer said basically the police just want money, someone complained to them because of the GF (my landlord is trying to figure out who it was) and they see here an opportunity to make quick cash on either me or the landlord or both. I've heard stories like that when they just harrass foreigners for so-called disturbances just to get money, I even witness it fiirsthand once a few years back. I am now required to fill a form to give at the police station (foreigners are apparently expected to do so even if it's not compulsary in this state - I know it is in others) and according to the lawyer they should leave us alone but i'm afraid for example if I throw a party they might pop-up.

So the landlord kinda apologized for freaking out last week, and now we need to stand together against this threat.

Not sure what to do but I'm freaking out a bit. I will discuss it with my Indian collegues tomorrow.

ONLY IN INDIA! NO OTHER FRIKKING PLACE IN THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD!!

Feel sorry for u bro, hang in there!!

domainator2010 said:

ONLY IN INDIA! NO OTHER FRIKKING PLACE IN THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD!!

Feel sorry for u bro, hang in there!!

I'm rpetty freaked out, I might call my consulate for advice if things won't cool down... Police harrassement exists in many other developing countries in the world but yeah, it's really sumthing India needs to solve

I'll keep u guys in4med of the developments. Hopefully things will cool down. Thx for the moral support!

I've just posted this on an Indian legal advice discussion forum, I hope I'll have some answers.

"Dear all,

I am a French teacher residing in Tamil Nadu. I have been for some weeks in a relationship with a foreign woman and she came to spend the night in my appartment a few times.

Some neighboors have called the police about that and though there was nothing illegal about it, the police is trying to use this as a way to extort money from me and my landlord, a 75 year old Indian man with whom I have always had an excellent relationship for nearly 2 years I've been here.

This is what happened:
- Some unidentified neighbor complained to the police that some immoral activities were happening in my landlord's house, it seems they also told the police that I was disturbing the street's peace by listening to music at night (no one ever complained about this in 2 years even when I threw parties, so this is clearly an excuse).
- The police came when I was not here, accused my landlord to "run a brothel" (!) and reproached him that he had not declared renting his flat to a foreigner at the police station.
- Me and the landlord agreed that the GF was not to sleep here anymore (I can go at her place instead, where neighboors don't cause trouble) and she didn't come back, but the police did.
- Yesterday evening the police came back and harrassed the landlord. They wanted to search my flat but thanks God I was at the GF's place and the landlord doesn't have my key. They told him that they could arrest me and the GF for immoral activities and that they would if they'd find her here. They also told him to register me (they handed him the form). They also told him they'd patrol the street and that if they'd hear any music from my window, or even saw lights (!) after midnight, they'd arrest me. Then they waited for me for one hour in front of the gate, in their car, before leaving.

Today my landlord went to see a lawyer, who told him that:
- They just wanted to extort money from either him or me.
- They have no legal ground of course to complain about any moral issues (nor noise I can assure you) but they will try nevertheless to intimidate us until they get what they want.
- That declaring tenents to the police station, while compulsary in some states such as Maharashtra, was not compulsory in Tamil Nadu, but the lawyer advised that we do it anyway because if we did they'd have no ground to harrass us anymore. So I will fill the form and give it to the landlord tomorrow in case they come back.

The landlord also learned from neighbors that the police has harrassed a group of young Indian flatmates in the opposite house, most likely for noise allegations, and that the flatmates have decided to vacate the appartment in order to have peace.

I've also checked online and it seems without a warrant or serious suspiscions (such as a fugitive hiding in my house) the police is not allowed to inspect the premise, but I'm now afraid that they might try anyway and possibly arrest me if I refuse, or even worse, force themselves inside and plant drugs in the place to extort more money from me (I've heard stories like that).

I'm scared to death. I have never had any problems with the police in India but I know they can do whatever they want no matter what the law says. This is not my country, in Europe I'd know what my rights are but here I feel powerless, rights or not. My landlord and I have agreed to stand together against them but who knows what they can do. He's a respected man, a brahmin and a retired engineer who always lived by the law, but he told me he's afraid of them, too.

I don't want to have to pay money to them for being left alone because for one thing it is wrong, and also I don't have that much money anyway (I'm on a very low salary for an expat), + if I pay once they may come back for more on a regular basis.

I was to have some guests next Saturday but i've decided to cancel the party out of fear they might come and accuse us of making noise. I also won't have my GF come even at day (!) for the moment because I'm afraid they may harrass her as well. I also have a French female friend visiting me next month and we agreed that it's best if we all sleep at my GF's for the few days we'll be here (after that we'll be travelling 'round). Of course I could just move to another place and maybe I will eventually because not being able to stay awake at night or welcoming any guest I wish is intolerable, but finding a place like this for what I pay is extremely hard in Chennai, i've been very lucky to find this appartment (my foreign friends either live in dumps or pay rents I cannot afford).

So I wanted to ask for advices: what to tell the police and how to behave if:
- They want to inspect my appartment without a warrant - and they won't have one.
- They ask for money.
- They threaten to arrest me or to beat me up.
- They accuse me of disturbing the neighboorhood just because I'm awake late at night and they see light or hear some music even if it's not so loud.

Many thanks for your advices, please somebody tell me what to do! As I said I'm really freaking out here! activities were happening in my landlord's house, it seems they also told the police that I was disturbing the street's peace by listening to music at night (no one ever complained about this in 2 years even when I threw parties, so this is clearly an excuse).
- The police came when I was not here, accused my landlord to "run a brothel" (!) and reproached him that he had not declared renting his flat to a foreigner at the police station.
- Me and the landlord agreed that the GF was not to sleep here anymore (I can go at her place instead, where neighboors don't cause trouble) and she didn't come back, but the police did.
- Yesterday evening the police came back and harrassed the landlord. They wanted to search my flat but thanks God I was at the GF's place and the landlord doesn't have my key. They told him that they could arrest me and the GF for immoral activities and that they would if they'd find her here. They also told him to register me (they handed him the form). They also told him they'd patrol the street and that if they'd hear any music from my window, or even saw lights (!) after midnight, they'd arrest me. Then they waited for me for one hour in front of the gate, in their car, before leaving.

Today my landlord went to see a lawyer, who told him that:
- They just wanted to extort money from either him or me.
- They have no legal ground of course to complain about any moral issues (nor noise I can assure you) but they will try nevertheless to intimidate us until they get what they want.
- That declaring tenents to the police station, while compulsary in some states such as Maharashtra, was not compulsory in Tamil Nadu, but the lawyer advised that we do it anyway because if we did they'd have no ground to harrass us anymore. So I will fill the form and give it to the landlord tomorrow in case they come back.

The landlord also learned from neighbors that the police has harrassed a group of young Indian flatmates in the opposite house, most likely for noise allegations, and that the flatmates have decided to vacate the appartment in order to have peace.

I've also checked online and it seems without a warrant or serious suspiscions (such as a fugitive hiding in my house) the police is not allowed to inspect the premise, but I'm now afraid that they might try anyway and possibly arrest me if I refuse, or even worse, force themselves inside and plant drugs in the place to extort more money from me (I've heard stories like that).

I'm scared to death. I have never had any problems with the police in India but I know they can do whatever they want no matter what the law says. This is not my country, in Europe I'd know what my rights are but here I feel powerless, rights or not. My landlord and I have agreed to stand together against them but who knows what they can do. He's a respected man, a brahmin and a retired engineer who always lived by the law, but he told me he's afraid of them, too.

I don't want to have to pay money to them for being left alone because for one thing it is wrong, and also I don't have that much money anyway (I'm on a very low salary for an expat), + if I pay once they may come back for more on a regular basis.

I was to have some guests next Saturday but i've decided to cancel the party out of fear they might come and accuse us of making noise. I also won't have my GF come even at day (!) for the moment because I'm afraid they may harrass her as well. I also have a French female friend visiting me next month and we agreed that it's best if we all sleep at my GF's for the few days we'll be here (after that we'll be travelling 'round). Of course I could just move to another place and maybe I will eventually because not being able to stay awake at night or welcoming any guest I wish is intolerable, but finding a place like this for what I pay is extremely hard in Chennai, i've been very lucky to find this appartment (my foreign friends either live in dumps or pay rents I cannot afford).

So I wanted to ask for advices: what to tell the police and how to behave if:
- They want to inspect my appartment without a warrant - and they won't have one.
- They ask for money.
- They threaten to arrest me or to beat me up.
- They accuse me of disturbing the neighboorhood just because I'm awake late at night and they see light or hear some music even if it's not so loud.

Many thanks for your advices, please somebody tell me what to do! As I said I'm really freaking out here!"

God luck man, that is one shitty situation.

^Thx dear.

.

So last update, the landlord finally decided to pay in order to be left alone. Tomorrow he will go to the police station with his lawyer, give them the form and pay whatever amount they ask under the promise that we're never to hear of them again. He's not 100% sure it'll work but he hopes it'll be enough to get rid of the fuckers, but of course there's still a chance they'd come regularly for more money but he thinks giving them any amount they ask for and the lawyer's presence should be sufficient.

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I told him anyway that I couldn't cope with the stress of police harrassment/threats, so that if they wouldn't leave us alone I'd vacate the appartment, and if I ever hear of this again or see a cop's face I will. This is just too much for me, I can't stand the tension.

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I'll know tomorrow evening what happened at the police station.

I think you should let a newspaper or 2 know about this. They might pick up on the story. Try Times of India.

Oh, and if they come around again, pump some NWA - Fuck the Police!!!

I dunno, I think his best bet is to lay low and get out asap, not draw more attention to it, at this point anyway.

JustErin said:

I dunno, I think his best bet is to lay low and get out asap, not draw more attention to it, at this point anyway.

I agree. Justice is never instant or guaranteed and frankly overrated compared to personal peace.