duccichucka said:

EmancipationLover said:

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The problem is that enzymes (rennet) from calf stomach are needed to make cheese. Hence, the killing of calfs is required to fabricate cheese. In principle, these enzymes can be replaced by microbial enzymes, but the taste of the cheese is influenced by this. The most reasonable alternative would be to express the rennet enzymes in genetically modified microorganisms (which is a standard procedure nowadays), but this would violate the standards of organic farming - because gene manipulation is seen as the mother of all evil, just by definition.

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In other words: if you get your cheese from organic farming, it is pretty likely that some calfs were killed to make it. Sad, but true.

The cheese I eat has vegetable derived rennet, so I'm all good.

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Ah, I see. I have eaten some cheese made with microbial rennet before I have started trying veganism this year, and my impression was that the taste was o.k., but it didn't come close to the cheese I've liked before I became aware of the rennet problem.

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By the way, I'm not too fond of any vegetarian vs. vegan discussions anyway. To each their own, and I fully understand if people don't want to remove certain food from their diets. At the end of the day, vegetarians and vegans are driven by the same mindset, and that is their dislike of meat. If we manage to respectfully explain to people why we avoid meat in a non-Morrissey-like manner, it is all good.

Fresh cheeses don't require rennet at all - cream cheese, paneer, quark, etc. are all super tasty. My local co-op has many cheeses that are made w/microbial rennet and I haven't found one I thought was poor-tasting.

That said, I do want to reduce my dairy and egg intake as well. Even when the animals providing them are treated humanely, the industries themselves just don't make me feel good. From grinding up live chicks because they're born male and won't produce eggs to keeping cows pregnant and stealing away the calves (with the males to be confined in veal crates) there are many problems yet to be solved.

EmancipationLover said:

duccichucka said:

The cheese I eat has vegetable derived rennet, so I'm all good.

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Ah, I see. I have eaten some cheese made with microbial rennet before I have started trying veganism this year, and my impression was that the taste was o.k., but it didn't come close to the cheese I've liked before I became aware of the rennet problem.

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By the way, I'm not too fond of any vegetarian vs. vegan discussions anyway. To each their own, and I fully understand if people don't want to remove certain food from their diets. At the end of the day, vegetarians and vegans are driven by the same mindset, and that is their dislike of meat. If we manage to respectfully explain to people why we avoid meat in a non-Morrissey-like manner, it is all good.

Oh, I don't dislike meat. Meat is fucking delicious. I love the way pork, veal, and bacon most of
all taste. In the summer, when I smell meat on the grill, it is appetizing and my mouth damn near
drools.

I have just come to the conclusion that it is unethical to eat meat and it's to the detriment of the
planet as far as the climate is concerned.

But, yeah, I'm with you - vegans and vegetarians are one happy family!

MonsterZeroTwo said:

I think I want to transition to vegan. I don't know what beside bar soap contains animal products and don't know if not using everyday things like that that do is totally within my budget right now. Thoughts, opinions, is this the right thing to do, how to transition and stick?

Find a "natural soap-maker" online, or go to a real "Co-op" Health Food Store...

I've met several who (vegan, vegetarian, or not) began making their own soaps in their spare time...

Shea butter soaps..Cocoa Butter...

Some take orders online, but if you need a Corporate brand, they are appearing more in regular grocery stores. (Still, ***Read the labels!***). I've made mistakes early, not really reading, and researching products..

Some are pure blocks that are cut from from a long mold--without packaging...Others look more commercial..

EmancipationLover said:

dJJ said:

A lot of meat replacing products are made of soy beans. These are genetically manipulated and their effects have not been researched according valid standards. The researchers paid by the corporations will state that it's safe. Those who are independant have found results that indicate tumor growth as a consequence of the GM food.

So, if you are going vegan, make sure you don't eat yourself sick or death, avoid GM food. So, avoid soya as much as you can.

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You can buy organic soya products. That will rule out GMOs.

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Btw, there's too much panic when it comes to the genetic manipulation of plants imo...

Soy (GMO, or non-GMO fermented) make my sinuses run!

Too much Histadine amino acids....Too much Estrogen..

Plus, they smell like plastic...(which they are being used to create plastics)..They may clog your arteries like milk by-products, and animal fats..

Early-on, I tried Soy-Meat-replacer burgers from the local Co-Op Store, and I suffered from excess mucus, and sinus congestion--during a serious Flu.

Tried them again....Same thing--even without a cold or flu...Sinuses running.

Maybe, it depends on blood-type, but I cannot hadle Soy, ad it's it regular foods as well..as a thickening agent, and preservative. Not to mention MSG (Mono-Sodium-Glumate).

I don't know why I sought burger replacements...Fish was the hardest to "Drop", not beef (and definetly not pork which was easy, and stinks).

I guess convenience, and a fear of not being "full enough" (which was foolish, and proven wrong-once I actually began making my own meals, or having them made for me)..

Women and Soy: A woman told me that they could lead to fibroid tumors...***I'm not sure about that******