Need a car loan? Be careful...



Miss a Payment? Good Luck Moving That Car
By Michael Corkery and Jessica Silver-Greenberg
September 24, 2014 9:33 pmSeptember 24, 2014 9:33 pm
Credit By Sean Patrick Farrell on September 24, 2014.


The thermometer showed a 103.5-degree fever, and her 10-year-old’s asthma was flaring up. Mary Bolender, who lives in Las Vegas, needed to get her daughter to an emergency room, but her 2005 Chrysler van would not start.

The cause was not a mechanical problem — it was her lender.

Ms. Bolender was three days behind on her monthly car payment. Her lender, C.A.G. Acceptance of Mesa, Ariz., remotely activated a device in her car’s dashboard that prevented her car from starting. Before she could get back on the road, she had to pay more than $389, money she did not have that morning in March.

“I felt absolutely helpless,” said Ms. Bolender, a single mother who stopped working to care for her daughter. It was not the only time this happened: Her car was shut down that March, once in April and again in June.

This new technology is bringing auto loans — and Wall Street’s version of Big Brother — into the lives of people with credit scores battered by the financial downturn.

Auto loans to borrowers considered subprime, those with credit scores at or below 640, have spiked in the last five years. The jump has been driven in large part by the demand among investors for securities backed by the loans, which offer high returns at a time of low interest rates. Roughly 25 percent of all new auto loans made last year were subprime, and the volume of subprime auto loans reached more than $145 billion in the first three months of this year.

But before they can drive off the lot, many subprime borrowers like Ms. Bolender must have their car outfitted with a so-called starter interrupt device, which allows lenders to remotely disable the ignition. Using the GPS technology on the devices, the lenders can also track the cars’ location and movements.

The devices, which have been installed in about two million vehicles, are helping feed the subprime boom by enabling more high-risk borrowers to get loans. But there is a big catch. By simply clicking a mouse or tapping a smartphone, lenders retain the ultimate control. Borrowers must stay current with their payments, or lose access to their vehicle.

Full article.....

http://dealbook.nytimes.c...;_r=1&

I don't like this idea. I can understand if they were a month behind, but a couple of days?

When I first heard about the technology to keep people's cars "safe" by activating a kill switch to make sure the car thief wouldn't get far, I had a feeling that on the other side of this coin was going to be the ability for car lenders to do this. It looks like my assumption was right. They con people into thinking that all this technology keeps you safe from the boogeyman but actually it makes you an easier target to have your entire life turned upside down just with the click of a mouse. These people are making serious money as long as everyone else is struggling to repay loans, mortgages, etc. They have no reason to create jobs that actually pay a living wage because then fewer people would default on loans and that would end the gravy train for the fat cats. How much longer are people going to allow ourselves to be mistreated like this just because we are not uber rich?

babynoz said:

It was not the only time this happened: Her car was shut down that March, once in April and again in June.

Looks like she forgets to pay every month.

Maybe she can't afford it. Well, you can't have it all

Fist all the bull about a sick baby is 100% irrelevant. So what? That is nothing but bias reporting--so from the first sentence we know the spin!


This idea is fine but it needs to be 60 to 90 days late! Not 60 to 90 Hours.

My only worry is how is this device permanently disabled once the car is paid for? Seems it could be hacked or "accidentally" used latter on.

PANDURITO said:

babynoz said:

It was not the only time this happened: Her car was shut down that March, once in April and again in June.

Looks like she forgets to pay every month.

Maybe she can't afford it. Well, you can't have it all

her car payment is pretty high! I wonder how much of that $389 was fees? This could be a scam.

Next the globalists microchip people.

IF she agreed to this when she bought the car, I don't feel sorry for her.

owning a car is overrated

morningsong said:

Nobody's brought up that Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson or one of those guys quote about trading ones safety for freedom yet. Looks like safety is the most desired. Anyway I think it's weird nobody considered this as a possibility. I mean anything that can be done somebody's going to do it. Then again appearance is everything so over shooting ones means is damn near a necessity these days if one wants to live in any kind of peace, strange kind of peace though. Not having your stuff available when you need it.

that Franklin quip was talking about the government and NOT private contracts. So I do not see how that is at all relevant to this issue.

People make bad choices. I made some and I am trying to get my credit improved. But I do not blame anyone but myself. (on the other hand I have a good retirement plan)

As to having your stuff available to you?? Well once a car note is late it is not really that person's anymore is it? I do not know what the repo laws are but at some point they can take the car outright. I knew a guy that had a house taken like that... sad thing is the bank sold it for about 3 times what was owed! And they kept it! He though he could sue to get some of it! LOL NOPE!

On another related story: once my apartment complex made a mistake and though I had under paid my rent! So they put a lock on the knob! BUT the knob was broken so all I needed to do was unlock the dead bolt and push... So I (knowing what they did) ignored it for a week or so... then they show up saying they are going to call the Sheriff and I said "mail box key" and she says "oh no that is right! We charged him $50 too much for a new key! I forgot to credit it!" I got $100 off my next 3 months rent!

The rich get richer and the poor get "safer", is that how this is framed these days?

SeventeenDayze said:

The rich get richer and the poor get "safer", is that how this is framed these days?

so if a person can not pay a bill they should not only be able to KEEP what they have not paid for but should not have their credit damaged either?

People get loans to buy stuff they can no afford... and the money is loaned at a risk. the interest is meant to offset the risk...and YES they make MONEY off of it. What is so bad about that?

Loans help people do all kinds of things. like open a business and hire people!

I also do not see at all how this makes any on safer?

But I agree that such programs need to be monitored to make sure they are done fairly. In the case of a 3 day late seems unfair and I am not sure that she should have ever been given a loan that is nearly $400...*but I do not know what her note is or how much of that was fees and whatnot. I would say there should be NO FEE for unlocking the car...i suspect it is at least $50 which is harsh. But maybe she needs to take the car back and get something less expensive?

What is telling is how few of the posters pointed out that this is HER OWN DOING and that all that nonsense about having a sick kid is just that... nonsense.

morningsong said:

Nobody's brought up that Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson or one of those guys quote about trading ones safety for freedom yet. Looks like safety is the most desired. Anyway I think it's weird nobody considered this as a possibility. I mean anything that can be done somebody's going to do it. Then again appearance is everything so over shooting ones means is damn near a necessity these days if one wants to live in any kind of peace, strange kind of peace though. Not having your stuff available when you need it.

Hallelujah, somebody gets it.

Like a lot of intrusive ideas this was sold as something to make people "safer", then it ends up in the hands of predatory lenders and the so called safety idea goes out the window. Surprise, surprise.

But as expected the usual suspects just make wisecracks like it's funny....hopefully somebody's car doesnt shut down on the road in front of them or their loved ones. Let's see how funny it will be then.

I get the feeling that this thread and the one about 'New Car Hackings' are related.

wildgoldenhoney said:

I get the feeling that this thread and the one about 'New Car Hackings' are related.

And you would be correct!

Most people don't give a crap about anything they don't think will affect them personally.....they're wrong.

babynoz said:

wildgoldenhoney said:

I get the feeling that this thread and the one about 'New Car Hackings' are related.

And you would be correct!

Most people don't give a crap about anything they don't think will affect them personally.....they're wrong.

I think many of us made that connection. Many of us see the slippery slope of this. I happen to know that police have been testing out and pushing for devices that cops could use to turn off a car remotely.

But in this case it is something that person seems to accept as a term of a private contract. Could it be used for ill? Sure I suspect it has and is!

But like many other things most of us have... we welcome the potential eyes of big brother. From phones, GPS, stickers that pay tolls, some credit cards, some ID Cards... it is a concen but I got to check my facebook yo!

Yeah, this is nothing new. Like another poster said, Mel Farr was doing this in the '90s. When we had wrecked credit about 10 years ago, my husband bought a car in Toledo, OH from a dealer who also did this. Had to make weekly payments by calling in, giving payment info and receiving a code to input on the device thing in the car. Total hassle. Needless to say, my husband got sick of it real soon. We got rid of that car before the year was up, paid cash for a piece of junk car, got better credit and can now get regular car loans at conventional dealerships.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

morningsong said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

that Franklin quip was talking about the government and NOT private contracts. So I do not see how that is at all relevant to this issue.

People make bad choices. I made some and I am trying to get my credit improved. But I do not blame anyone but myself. (on the other hand I have a good retirement plan)

As to having your stuff available to you?? Well once a car note is late it is not really that person's anymore is it? I do not know what the repo laws are but at some point they can take the car outright. I knew a guy that had a house taken like that... sad thing is the bank sold it for about 3 times what was owed! And they kept it! He though he could sue to get some of it! LOL NOPE!

On another related story: once my apartment complex made a mistake and though I had under paid my rent! So they put a lock on the knob! BUT the knob was broken so all I needed to do was unlock the dead bolt and push... So I (knowing what they did) ignored it for a week or so... then they show up saying they are going to call the Sheriff and I said "mail box key" and she says "oh no that is right! We charged him $50 too much for a new key! I forgot to credit it!" I got $100 off my next 3 months rent!

I've been watching "Rome", and I had forgotten that time in history where the Senators packed up the Treasury gold and left the the city. They attempted to take the power with them. To our forefathers their history generally was the government held the power of the gold and then the industrial revolution happened, the dynamics of power has shifted. So while I realize the government was what was in the front of their minds its meaning hinged on "he who has the gold", today a bit of government and a lot of private corporation. Won't be surprised if in my lifetime private corps will be responsible for building and maintaining major roadways. Power. I get what your saying until one has fully paid for something, they are basically borrowing it therefore the "true" owners can basically do what they want (depending on the contract). Which, not so surprisingly is never emphasized, lulling people into these false sense of securities that they have something they can rely on.

Agreed, Morningsong. I think people who are "homeowners" turn their noses up at renters under this same premise. They don't own anything, the bank owns it but they don't see it that way. Car payments, mortgages/rent, credit card debt is all intended to keep people slaves to debt until they leave this Earth. It's guaranteed welfare for the rich to make sure the masses own nothing. When are people around this country going to finally figure this out?

morningsong said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

that Franklin quip was talking about the government and NOT private contracts. So I do not see how that is at all relevant to this issue.

People make bad choices. I made some and I am trying to get my credit improved. But I do not blame anyone but myself. (on the other hand I have a good retirement plan)

As to having your stuff available to you?? Well once a car note is late it is not really that person's anymore is it? I do not know what the repo laws are but at some point they can take the car outright. I knew a guy that had a house taken like that... sad thing is the bank sold it for about 3 times what was owed! And they kept it! He though he could sue to get some of it! LOL NOPE!

On another related story: once my apartment complex made a mistake and though I had under paid my rent! So they put a lock on the knob! BUT the knob was broken so all I needed to do was unlock the dead bolt and push... So I (knowing what they did) ignored it for a week or so... then they show up saying they are going to call the Sheriff and I said "mail box key" and she says "oh no that is right! We charged him $50 too much for a new key! I forgot to credit it!" I got $100 off my next 3 months rent!

I've been watching "Rome", and I had forgotten that time in history where the Senators packed up the Treasury gold and left the the city. They attempted to take the power with them. To our forefathers their history generally was the government held the power of the gold and then the industrial revolution happened, the dynamics of power has shifted. So while I realize the government was what was in the front of their minds its meaning hinged on "he who has the gold", today a bit of government and a lot of private corporation. Won't be surprised if in my lifetime private corps will be responsible for building and maintaining major roadways. Power. I get what your saying until one has fully paid for something, they are basically borrowing it therefore the "true" owners can basically do what they want (depending on the contract). Which, not so surprisingly is never emphasized, lulling people into these false sense of securities that they have something they can rely on.

He who has the gold, makes the rules, and the borrower is a slave to the lender. Yep

SeventeenDayze said:

morningsong said:

OnlyNDaUsa said: I've been watching "Rome", and I had forgotten that time in history where the Senators packed up the Treasury gold and left the the city. They attempted to take the power with them. To our forefathers their history generally was the government held the power of the gold and then the industrial revolution happened, the dynamics of power has shifted. So while I realize the government was what was in the front of their minds its meaning hinged on "he who has the gold", today a bit of government and a lot of private corporation. Won't be surprised if in my lifetime private corps will be responsible for building and maintaining major roadways. Power. I get what your saying until one has fully paid for something, they are basically borrowing it therefore the "true" owners can basically do what they want (depending on the contract). Which, not so surprisingly is never emphasized, lulling people into these false sense of securities that they have something they can rely on.

Agreed, Morningsong. I think people who are "homeowners" turn their noses up at renters under this same premise. They don't own anything, the bank owns it but they don't see it that way. Car payments, mortgages/rent, credit card debt is all intended to keep people slaves to debt until they leave this Earth. It's guaranteed welfare for the rich to make sure the masses own nothing. When are people around this country going to finally figure this out?

As long as people can have the illusion of prosperity they will continue to ignore that the deck is stacked against them and the playing field ain't level.

Remember that one guy in the matrix movie? He wanted to be re-attached to the delusion so badly that he was willing to betray everybody on his team who were trying to free the people's minds?


Helluva metaphor right there.

PANDURITO said:

babynoz said:

It was not the only time this happened: Her car was shut down that March, once in April and again in June.

Looks like she forgets to pay every month.

Maybe she can't afford it. Well, you can't have it all

It's all well and good to be smug and cavalier until you realize that these people are actually deactivating some of these vehicles under some hazardous conditions.

Whether or not a payment is made nobody has the right to endanger the car owner or potentially other drivers in the process of collecting a debt.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

Next the globalists microchip people.

Ya know what? If that were the case I have a hunch that the majority would line right up and wait patiently to be branded like mindless cattle.

After all it's for security, right?

wildgoldenhoney said:

I don't like this idea. I can understand if they were a month behind, but a couple of days?

Neither do I. People who fail to pay their debts should have due process before having any action taken against them just like anything else. It's appalling how easily people are manipulated into giving up their rights.

If you had a deatbeat tenant you would have to file an eviction before you could throw them out or you would be in trouble. The potential for misuse of this technology is high.

I suspect what's going on is that they are not reading these contracts....people seldom do. Predatory lenders know that desperate people will make bad choices.

People need to wake up before we find ourselves back in the days of debtor's prisons.

babynoz said:

Stymie said:

IF she agreed to this when she bought the car, I don't feel sorry for her.

I worked for a car dealership that used this program.. This is for people who have pretty bad credit, consistant late or no payments and cant get conventional loans.. They are fully aware of this and the time frame of when they get locked out BEFORE they get handed those keys.. Using the sick daughter as a means of sympathy is just gross...


*spelling edit

[Edited 9/29/14 5:56am]

OnlyNDaUsa said:

PANDURITO said:

Looks like she forgets to pay every month.

Maybe she can't afford it. Well, you can't have it all

her car payment is pretty high! I wonder how much of that $389 was fees? This could be a scam.

It's a subprime loan. These are usually had for very little (if any) money down, with very high interest rates.
$389 for a minivan sounds just about right.

I don't necessarily agree nor disagree with this practice, BUT, it should be made clear when signing the paperwork that the lender reserves the right to use the device, and how. 3 days late? I don't buy it...usually lenders start getting fickle once you hit the 30-day mark. Maybe she was 33 days late??? (Meaning 3 days past the deadline?)