noimageatall said:

Byron said:

Porn doesn't cause anyone to rape.

This kid already had a fucked up mind to begin with...any one of a dozen things could have/would have triggerred his desire to act on his demons.

But it's far more attention-grabbing for the headline to make it seem as if merely watching porn at too early an age could cause a young teenager to rape a child.

I disagree because this case is certainly not the only one. I'm not certain how it is in the UK but America certainly has a rape culture...

[This case] is not an isolated incident. There have been numerous cases in recent years in which children acted out what they saw in pornography.

• November 2013: A different 13-year old UK boy pleaded guilty to raping ...r old girl when he was 10. A pornography addiction since age 9 was said to have played a significant role in his crimes.

• March 2013: Two boys aged 14 and 15 admitted to a British court that they were re-enacting scenes witnessed in violent online pornography when they beat, brutalized, then ra...r-old girl they had tied to a chair.

• March 2013: A UK report found that thousands of British children had committed sexual offenses. In all, 4,562 minors – some as young as five – committed 5,028 sexual offenses over a three year period from 2009-2012. Experts blamed “easy access to sexual material.”

• January 2012: Children’s aid and sex abuse organizations in Australia largely blamed 414 cases of children sexually abusing...r children on the explosion of pornography made accessible to children.

• August 2012: A 13-year-old Canadian boy pleaded guilty to repeatedly raping a 4-year-old boy who lived in his foster home. The boy said the idea came from watching “gay porn” on his foster parents’ home computer.

• April 2012: A child therapist reported a case of a 13-year-old boy who raped...old sister after developing a “complex fantasy world” warped by “two years of constant porn use.”

And I have to agree with this comment..."If what is seen has no impact on our actions, then all the advertising that's done is merely wasted dollars. Right? So which is it? We are or we are not influenced by the things we see and hear. Take your pick, but don't ask us to believe it works for some things (pushing products, for instance) and doesn't for others (pornography)."

I'm guessing you aren't getting at all what I was saying.

The type of rape discussed in this article (in the OP) is a violent, aggressive act, based on an any number of mental and emotional dysfunctions. It's about anger and control, and not always about anger and control of the victim. You know it's about control when these pre-teen boys pick out a victim that is 4-5 years old...it's someone they see as completely controllable (hell, the kid in this article says as much). They aren't trying to rape anyone their own age (who they would be far, far more likely to be aroused by) or someone older (which would reflect the women they see in the videos). The dysfunctions are there prior to any exposure to porn. The examples you gave don't even remotely disprove that, because they are anecdotal. The "addictions" to porn by some of these young boys were probably a symptom of their pre-existing dysfunction, and served merely to promote its growth.

It would take an almost brain-washing type of immersion into porn to make a healthy pre-teen mind become one that would look at raping their 4 year old sister as anything close to "normal". But brain-washing is forced upon you and consists of farmore than just constant viewing of adult videos. In a healthy mind, a constant, even unrelenting exposure to porn at a young age (say, 10-13) would manifest itself in external ways once the child become older...it's not something that would show itself immediately. However, in a warped mind that is already taking in external experiences in a delusional manner, it could show up much, much earlier.

The problem I have with assigning some sort of sexual over-stimulation to be a root cause of rape is that it treads dangerously close to the "She asked for it" line of thinking...that a woman can arouse men enough to commit rape by what they wear and how they act.

Mind you, date rape would probably be the exception here. That type of rape may or may not have anything to do with anger or control of women (or of environment as a whole). Some percentage of those types of rape are simply due to males who have a predatory nature, but even then you could say they have at least a certain amount of sociopathic tendencies that are due to things other than exposure to porn.

At any rate, here's some more info to add to your links:

[Edited 2/7/14 15:34pm]

JoeTyler said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't get your bolding of SEEN.

.

I was a pre-teen / teen too so no I don't underestimate.

I'm just calling into question 12-14yr olds access to porno, and the adults who are allowing most kids to have seen porno. Which too me seeing a picture is very different than watching an actually sex act live or on a video.

.

I wonder has any kind of study been done on that. 12-14yr old girls too or just boys, all?

.

I do believe he probably has some other issues that allowed him to go there

the bolding of SEEN means that I refuse to accept that a 13 yo doesn't know what a penis is and how does it work with a vagina...

That's not the arguement

Gunsnhalen said:

Most kids have seen porn before there 13. I did, and so did many others i know. And this was the early 00's when i was growing up... porn is so easy to access now. You can see it on your phone! someone could be watching it at the gym, in their car, or while babysitting.

I'm hearing MOST MOST, where are you guys getting this info from

.

Gunsnhalen does your life reflect the rest of the country? (USA?) Your examples are all adults

.

Just because adults can access porn doesn't mean children can.

And again my issue, call into question if most kids have seen porn by that age then where is the responsibility of the parents/guardians/adults

OldFriends4Sale said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

It's not porn's fault. It's his fault.

it's both.

.

Sorry I'm not 100% against porn, but there are a lot of people especially men who in the area of sex, never mature. I'm surprised at some people I know (in their 40s) who are and have learned their sexuality/sexual expression via porn.

.

I had a big issue with a friend of mine when I found out some stuff, and it's clear he views sex via porn, prostitutes(he has hired), strippers. He has no realistic view of sex and wonders why he can't have a good relationship. When you start pushing things you see in porno etc on your girlfriend and she breaks up with u and you don't get it....

.

After talking to him I realized this guy (a father) has from an early age had wrong exposures to sex/sexual ideals

I agree with this. I'm not 100% against porn either. I've watched with boyfriends. BUT I will have to say that as a child I was up in the attic playing and found my step-dad's box of old Playboy mags. I must have been around seven and I have to say it affected me tremendously and not in a positive way. So much so that I still feel queasy when that memory surfaces. And these were only the 60s and 70s Playboys when the images were relatively tame compared to today. I never looked at my step-father in the same way again.

And yes...if even grown men have a skewed idea of what a healthy sexual relationship is, then how can we expect kids to learn if they are addicted to watching at such an early age??

Here's another study--again, it's a study, not just the words of a delusional 13 year old boy trying to form the words as to why he raped his sister:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Most kids have seen porn before there 13. I did, and so did many others i know. And this was the early 00's when i was growing up... porn is so easy to access now. You can see it on your phone! someone could be watching it at the gym, in their car, or while babysitting.

I'm hearing MOST MOST, where are you guys getting this info from

.

Gunsnhalen does your life reflect the rest of the country? (USA?) Your examples are all adults

.

Just because adults can access porn doesn't mean children can.

And again my issue, call into question if most kids have seen porn by that age then where is the responsibility of the parents/guardians/adults

If Jimmy has parents who are strict with him, never allow him online alone, and moniter what he watches. Then he goes over to Bobs house, who's parents are not as strict, but Jimmys parents don't know that. And they watch porn together? things like that can easily happen. What if innocent jack, bill, and john are on a football or band trip. And just ONE of the guys has unlimimited internet access that the other 3 don't have. Or just has porn videos on his PSP or something like that. And he shares it with all those guys... would the parents have any ideas? NO

There's dozens of ways kids can see porn, and have seen porn. I could write an entire essay about it, but i doubt it would convince you since you seem set in your ways.

[Edited 2/7/14 15:42pm]

If Christian little Suzie goes over to Barbras house for a sleepover. And there's 8-10 kids there. Lets say one of the kids has porn on their phone, PSP, or whatever else kids have nowadays. And out of curiosity they all watch.

All the people on my football team by the time we were 13 had seen a porn. All the people we knew on the football teams at other schools had watched porn. I was also on the basketball team... all of them watched porn before they were 13. Half the kids or more i knew in orchestra and band had seen porn before they were 13. I knew guys that porn on their phones and PSP in 9th and 10th grade.

Parents can't control 100% of what their kids see and hear everyday. At school i heard every racial name imaginable, and heard about every sex act imaginable. Just from hearing other kids talk! and they could just be random kids in class! who aren't talking too you.

You can have a friend or two who's parents know each other. And the two of you are BFFS and the parents trust the hell out of you. So you go to another girls house who's parents their not to familar with... but they trust you. And that's when drugs, sex, and everything else could happen.

There's literally hundreds of other examples i could give on this situation.

Byron said:

noimageatall said:

I'm guessing you aren't getting at all what I was saying.

The type of rape discussed in this article (in the OP) is a violent, aggressive act, based on an any number of mental and emotional dysfunctions. It's about anger and control, and not always about anger and control of the victim. You know it's about control when these pre-teen boys pick out a victim that is 4-5 years old...it's someone they see as completely controllable (hell, the kid in this article says as much). They aren't trying to rape anyone their own age (who they would be far, far more likely to be aroused by) or someone older (which would reflect the women they see in the videos). The dysfunctions are there prior to any exposure to porn. The examples you gave don't even remotely disprove that, because they are anecdotal. The "addictions" to porn by some of these young boys were probably a symptom of their pre-existing dysfunction, and served merely to promote its growth.

It would take an almost brain-washing type of immersion into porn to make a healthy pre-teen mind become one that would look at raping their 4 year old sister as anything close to "normal". But brain-washing is forced upon you and consists of farmore than just constant viewing of adult videos. In a healthy mind, a constant, even unrelenting exposure to porn at a young age (say, 10-13) would manifest itself in external ways once the child become older...it's not something that would show itself immediately. However, in a warped mind that is already taking in external experiences in a delusional manner, it could show up much, much earlier.

The problem I have with assigning some sort of sexual over-stimulation to be a root cause of rape is that it treads dangerously close to the "She asked for it" line of thinking...that a woman can arouse men enough to commit rape by what they wear and how they act.

Mind you, date rape would probably be the exception here. That type of rape may or may not have anything to do with anger or control of women (or of environment as a whole). Some percentage of those types of rape are simply due to males who have a predatory nature, but even then you could say they have at least a certain amount of sociopathic tendencies that are due to things other than exposure to porn.

At any rate, here's some more info to add to your links:

In the 1980s, conservatives and feminists joined to fight a common nemesis: the spread of pornography. Unlike past campaigns to stamp out smut, this one was based not only on morality but also public safety. They argued that hard-core erotica was intolerable because it promoted sexual violence against women.

"Pornography is the theory; rape is the practice," wrote feminist author Robin Morgan. In 1986, a federal commission concurred. Some kinds of pornography, it concluded, are bound to lead to "increased sexual violence." Indianapolis passed a law allowing women to sue producers for sexual assaults caused by material depicting women in "positions of servility or submission or display."

The campaign fizzled when the courts said the ordinance was an unconstitutional form of "thought control." Though the Bush administration has put new emphasis on prosecuting obscenity, on the grounds that it fosters violence against women, pornography is more available now than ever.

That's due in substantial part to the rise of the Internet, where the United States alone has a staggering 244 million Web pages featuring erotic fare. One Nielsen survey found that one out of every four users say they visited adult sites in the last month.

So in the last two decades, we have conducted a vast experiment on the social consequences of such material. If the supporters of censorship were right, we should be seeing an unparalleled epidemic of sexual assault. But all the evidence indicates they were wrong. As raunch has waxed, rape has waned.

This is part of a broad decrease in criminal mayhem. Since 1993, violent crime in America has dropped by 58 percent. But the progress in this one realm has been especially dramatic. Rape is down 72 percent and other sexual assaults have fallen by 68 percent. Even in the last two years, when the FBI reported upticks in violent crime, the number of rapes continued to fall.

Nor can the decline be dismissed as the result of underreporting. Many sexual assaults do go unreported, but there is no reason to think there is less reporting today than in the past. In fact, given everything that has been done to educate people about the problem and to prosecute offenders, victims are probably more willing to come forward than they used to be.

No one would say the current level of violence against women is acceptable. But the enormous progress in recent years is one of the most gratifying successes imaginable.

How can it be explained? Perhaps the most surprising and controversial account comes from Clemson University economist Todd Kendall, who suggests that adult fare on the Internet may essentially inoculate against sexual assaults.

In a paper presented at Stanford Law School last year, he reported that, after adjusting for other differences, states where Internet access expanded the fastest saw rape decline the most. A 10 percent increase in Internet access, Kendall found, typically meant a 7.3 percent reduction in the number of reported rapes. For other types of crime, he found no correlation with Web use. What this research suggests is that sexual urges play a big role in the incidence of rape -- and that pornographic Web sites provide a harmless way for potential predators to satisfy those desires.

[Edited 2/7/14 15:34pm]

Well this formatting is all jacked up My comments and yours are all mixed. Tried to fix it but that's the org for ya. Anyway, I get what you're saying but I have to disagree with the highlighted stats. Rape culture definitely exists in the US as well as most of the world. Even top 10 songs celebrate it. A 2012 report from the DOD says that since 2006 there had been a 64% increase in violent sexual assaults in the military...and that idiot Fox News analyst Liz Trotta stated that women should "expect" to be raped working in such close proximity with men.

(New York, December 18, 2008) - A new government report showing huge increases in the incidences of domestic violence, rape, and sexual assault over a two-year period in the United States deserves immediate attention from lawmakers and the incoming administration, Human Rights Watch said today. The statistics show a 42-percent increase in reported domestic violence and a 25-percent increase in the reported incidence of rape and sexual assault.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2...inst-women


Women are relentlessly objectified and sexualized by the media....to sell you something. Just look at the disturbing mingling of female sexuality and violence in video games and movies to sell their product. It really defines our culture, especially one so media obsessed. How are young, vulnerable children influenced by a lifetime of such exposure?

noimageatall said:

Well this formatting is all jacked up My comments and yours are all mixed. Tried to fix it but that's the org for ya.

...I sometimes hate the Org lol

Anyway, I get what you're saying but I have to disagree with the highlighted stats. Rape culture definitely exists in the US as well as most of the world. Even top 10 songs celebrate it. A 2012 report from the DOD says that since 2006 there had been a 64% increase in violent sexual assaults in the military...and that idiot Fox News analyst Liz Trotta stated that women should "expect" to be raped working in such close proximity with men.

But just because a "rape culture" exists doesn't mean the stats I presented are wrong. There may indeed be an increase in sexual assaults in the military, but my stats covered far more than just the military.

That seems to contradict the stats from the Bureau Of Justice statistics:

Female Victims of Sexual Violence, 1994-2010

Presents trends in the rate of completed or attempted rape or sexual assault against females from 1995 to 2010. The report examines demographic characteristics of female victims of sexual violence and characteristics of the offender and incident, including victim-offender relationship, whether the offender had a weapon, and the location of the victimization.

Highlights:

• From 1995 to 2010, the estimated annual rate of female rape or sexual assault victimizations declined 58%, from 5.0 victimizations per 1,000 females age 12 or older to 2.1 per 1,000.

http://www.bjs.gov/index....p;iid=4594

Now, theoretically it could be that there was a 2-year upswing in the number of sexual violence against women, but overall there was a decrease between 1994-2010. Also, the article you linked to mentions that the stats might not actually reflect an increase in violence against women:

"Due to criticism from experts in the subject, the survey's methodology was adjusted in 2007 to capture more accurately the incidence of gender-based violence. The authors say in the report that the higher numbers may reflect the new, more accurate methodology rather than an actual increase."

Women are relentlessly objectified and sexualized by the media....to sell you something. Just look at the disturbing mingling of female sexuality and violence in video games and movies to sell their product. It really defines our culture, especially one so media obsessed. How are young, vulnerable children influenced by a lifetime of such exposure?

Ok, I want to first go on record as saying I'm not in any way, shape or form taking a pro-pornography stance here ...nor am I downplaying the seriousness and severity of child-on-child sexual abuse ...I've had several women very close to me have to deal with various levels of abuse while young, and I take the subject with all the seriousness it deserves.

My issue, I guess, is with the sensationalistic headlines that always seem to accompany stories like this. They don't even remotely touch on the reality of these awful situations, and the writers don't want to...they just want clicks. Something like over 80% of children who abuse other children were already abused themselves...so it's not the XBox or porn at fault. The one boy who said "gay porn" caused him to repeatedly rape a 4 year old boy? ...No it didn't.

Child-on-child sexual abuse is incredibly serious and deserves a realistic approach, not a sensationalistic one.

Gunsnhalen said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I'm hearing MOST MOST, where are you guys getting this info from

.

Gunsnhalen does your life reflect the rest of the country? (USA?) Your examples are all adults

.

Just because adults can access porn doesn't mean children can.

And again my issue, call into question if most kids have seen porn by that age then where is the responsibility of the parents/guardians/adults

If Jimmy has parents who are strict with him, never allow him online alone, and moniter what he watches. Then he goes over to Bobs house, who's parents are not as strict, but Jimmys parents don't know that. And they watch porn together? things like that can easily happen. What if innocent jack, bill, and john are on a football or band trip. And just ONE of the guys has unlimimited internet access that the other 3 don't have. Or just has porn videos on his PSP or something like that. And he shares it with all those guys... would the parents have any ideas? NO

There's dozens of ways kids can see porn, and have seen porn. I could write an entire essay about it, but i doubt it would convince you since you seem set in your ways.

[Edited 2/7/14 15:42pm]

Yeah I get it, especially in this day and age. But it still doesn't mean kids are just sitting down view porno. Just because a kid has it on his phone, and Jack or Jill looks doesn't mean they continue to look. Everyone isn't wired the same. A lot of people pull away and don't care for it. From I little boy I loved the taste of beer and wine, my brother hated it....

artist76 said:

It says "We know that dopamine is released during sexual excitement, which porn plays right in to."

But...so does sex lol...

"The more time you spend doing it, the more dopamine is released...which makes you not only desire it in the future, but require it."

So should we cut back on sex?

"as you begin to imagine these images away from the computer, they become reinforced.."

So, sex with the lights off, then?

"Furthermore, each orgasm releases even more dopamine.."

Ok, so sex is definitely out of the question now lol...

"It's a feedback loop that becomes harder to escape."

That 'splains why I always wanted to have sex again when I was in relationships ...

"Your tolerance for visual stimulation has now compounded, making it more difficult to be turned on by reality."

What if I'm being turned on by the visuals IN reality? What then?

[Edited 2/7/14 19:02pm]

He has been caught, which is good. Stats in the US show that juveniles that commit sexual assult
(and recieve help) rarely re-offend. I hope people help him instead of simply deciding he is a
monster and wash their hands of him or leave him to rot somewhere. I hope his sister gets a lot
of help as well.

Byron said:

luv4u said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

It's not porn's fault. It's his fault.

It's the parents fault for not using the parental control feature.

Bingo!

tinaz said:

I sort of agree with smoothcriminal... People are always quick to throw blame when they have been caught...

even if it were"porns" fault, what sick fuck makes a move on their baby sister? That right there says this kid has issues...

Kids should NOT be allowed to watch porn, but it doesnt make them rape siblings, or anyone else for that matter...

Incest does exist, regardless if it's consensual or by force (rape, molestation, or otherwise). And I bet that 13-year-old boy was having incestuous thoughts about his little sister for quite sometime.

JoeTyler said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

this case isn't as cut in dry as a rape case. It's worse its sad and it opens the doors on a lot of stuff.

.

I'd like to hear more about this kid, this is a troubling story. This isn't an adult, this is still a kid, who should not have been exposed to porn. Hell I know adults who think what they see in porn they should try with their wives. And there are some twisted things in porn.

.

No, this is not just porn, but the boy, and so much other stuff we don't know of. My nephew is 11 and i don't know how he would react being exposed to porn at 11 12 or 13.

most "kids" have already seen porn at 12-14 yo

That's nothing. I was age 7 when I've seen an adult magazine.

I remember the incident like it was yesterday. I was at the house of my mother's then-boyfriend. I was looking around the house trying to find a comic book and I ended up finding a comic strip about some woman named "Honey".

That comic strip was in Hustler Magazine.

Porn can trigger a closet rapist to rape

just as violent movies/videogames can trigger a closet murderer to murder

but still

it IS his fault, not only a rapist, but also a pedo and an amoral (incest)

smoothcriminal12 said:

It's not porn's fault. It's his fault.

Right 13 is quite old enough to know better smh

paisleypark4 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

It's not porn's fault. It's his fault.

Right 13 is quite old enough to know better smh

Is it? When magazines, TV, games...our entire culture is geared toward this?

http://www.surrey.ac.uk/m...um=twitter

Can You Tell The Differen... A Rapist?

According to a new study, people can't tell the difference between quotes from British "lad mags" and interviews with convicted rapists. And given the choice, men are actually more likely to agree with the rapists.

The University of Surrey reports on the study (conducted jointly with researchers at Middlesex University), to be published in the British Journal of Psychology. Researchers gave a group of men and women quotes from the British lad mags FHM, Loaded, Nuts and Zoo, as well as excerpts from interviews with actual convicted rapists originally published in the book The Rapist Files. The participants couldn't reliably identify which statements came from magazines and which from rapists — what's more, they rated the magazine quotes as slightly more derogatory than the statements made by men serving time for raping women. The researchers also showed both sets of quotes to a separate group of men — the men were more likely to identify with the rapists' statements than the lad mag excerpts.

Still, the results as a whole are pretty disturbing. Says lead study author Dr. Miranda Horvath, "We were surprised that participants identified more with the rapists' quotes, and we are concerned that the legitimisation strategies that rapists deploy when they talk about women are more familiar to these young men than we had anticipated." Her co-author Dr. Peter Hegarty adds,

There is a fundamental concern that the content of such magazines normalises the treatment of women as sexual objects. We are not killjoys or prudes who think that there should be no sexual information and media for young people. But are teenage boys and young men best prepared for fulfilling love and sex when they normalise views about women that are disturbingly close to those mirrored in the language of sexual offenders?

Middlesex University generously provided us with a copy of the quotes the researchers used. See if you can tell the difference between the rapists and the lad mags:

1. There's a certain way you can tell that a girl wants to have sex . . . The way they dress, they flaunt themselves.

2. Some girls walk around in short-shorts . . . showing their body off . . . It just starts a man thinking that if he gets something like that, what can he do with it?

3. A girl may like anal sex because it makes her feel incredibly naughty and she likes feeling like a dirty slut. If this is the case, you can try all sorts of humiliating acts to help live out her filthy fantasy.

4. Mascara running down the cheeks means they've just been crying, and it was probably your fault . . . but you can cheer up the miserable beauty with a bit of the old in and out.

5. What burns me up sometimes about girls is dick-teasers. They lead a man on and then shut him off right there.

6. Filthy talk can be such a turn on for a girl . . . no one wants to be shagged by a mouse . . . A few compliments won't do any harm either . . . ‘I bet you want it from behind you dirty whore' . . .

7. You know girls in general are all right. But some of them are bitches . . . The bitches are the type that . . . need to have it stuffed to them hard and heavy.

8. Escorts . . . they know exactly how to turn a man on. I've given up on girlfriends. They don't know how to satisfy me, but escorts do.

9. You'll find most girls will be reluctant about going to bed with somebody or crawling in the back seat of a car . . . But you can usually seduce them, and they'll do it willingly.

10. There's nothing quite like a woman standing in the dock accused of murder in a sex game gone wrong . . . The possibility of murder does bring a certain frisson to the bedroom.

11. Girls ask for it by wearing these mini-skirts and hotpants . . . they're just displaying their body . . . Whether they realise it or not they're saying, ‘Hey, I've got a beautiful body, and it's yours if you want it.'

12. You do not want to be caught red-handed . . . go and smash her on a park bench. That used to be my trick.

13. Some women are domineering, but I think it's more or less the man who should put his foot down. The man is supposed to be the man. If he acts the man, the woman won't be domineering.

14. I think if a law is passed, there should be a dress code . . . When girls dress in those short skirts and things like that, they're just asking for it.

15. Girls love being tied up . . . it gives them the chance to be the helpless victim.

16. I think girls are like plasticine, if you warm them up you can do anything you want with them.

I have the correct answers. Just wonder who can guess which comments came from actual rapists. Here they are in case anyone cares...




Answers. 1. Rapist, 2. Rapist, 3. Lad mag, 4. Lad mag, 5. Rapist, 6. Lad mag, 7. Rapist, 8. Lad mag, 9. Rapist, 10. Lad mag, 11. Rapist, 12. Lad mag, 13. Rapist, 14. Rapist, 15. Lad mag, 16. Lad mag

[Edited 2/19/14 15:05pm]