Reply #30 posted 02/01/14 3:09pm
JoeTyler |
Lammastide said:
aardvark15 said:
1. London
2. Paris
3. Munich
4. Copenhagen
5. Milan
6. Rome
7. Cologne
8. Dublin
9. Nice
10. Venice
11. Barcelona
12. Berlin
13. Liverpool
14. Madrid
15. Athens
16 Amsterdam
17. Brussels
18. Sheffield
19. Manchester
20. Luxenbourg
21. Istanbul
22. Florence
23. Glasgow
24. Warsaw
25. Vienna
26. Geneva
27. Luxenbourg City
28. Moscow?
29. Saint Petersburg?
30. Samara?
I'm pretty sure the last 3 are in Europe but I'm not sure
These are Russian cities, and I've never heard a convincing argument as to why Russia shouldn't be considered Asian.
many consider that Europe has 4 natural frontiers: the Atlantic (beyond the Azores islands), the mediterranean southern coast (north Africa), the city of Istanbul + plus the coast of Asia Minor til Ciprus, and then Ural Mountains, which separate "european Russia" (the most popular cities, really) from the forever mysterious (and def asian) Siberia...
but Moscow and St.Petersburg are basically european cities, in every aspect imaginable... |
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Reply #31 posted 02/01/14 3:12pm
Dave1992
|
Lammastide said:
aardvark15 said:
1. London
2. Paris
3. Munich
4. Copenhagen
5. Milan
6. Rome
7. Cologne
8. Dublin
9. Nice
10. Venice
11. Barcelona
12. Berlin
13. Liverpool
14. Madrid
15. Athens
16 Amsterdam
17. Brussels
18. Sheffield
19. Manchester
20. Luxenbourg
21. Istanbul
22. Florence
23. Glasgow
24. Warsaw
25. Vienna
26. Geneva
27. Luxenbourg City
28. Moscow?
29. Saint Petersburg?
30. Samara?
I'm pretty sure the last 3 are in Europe but I'm not sure
These are Russian cities, and I've never heard a convincing argument as to why Russia shouldn't be considered Asian.
Russia is actually semi-officially divided into the European part and the Asian part and would definitely belong on a list of European countries. Those cities are in the European part of Russia and are therefore considered European cities.
An argument would be that a large chunk of Russia, including its capital, (maybe not large in relation to its own size, but still the biggest piece of land in Europe belonging to a country) is West of the Ural, so practically in Europe. Furthermore, the richest and most of the biggest of Russia's cities are located on the European side. Russia also had a huge influence on whole Eastern Europe up until a couple of decades ago, of course, which would make it even weirder to many people to suddenly consider it an Asian country. And lastly, there might be political advantages for Russia to be able to consider itself both European and Asian, you never know.
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Reply #32 posted 02/01/14 3:52pm
aardvark15 |
JoeTyler said:
Lammastide said:
These are Russian cities, and I've never heard a convincing argument as to why Russia shouldn't be considered Asian.
many consider that Europe has 4 natural frontiers: the Atlantic (beyond the Azores islands), the mediterranean southern coast (north Africa), the city of Istanbul + plus the coast of Asia Minor til Ciprus, and then Ural Mountains, which separate "european Russia" (the most popular cities, really) from the forever mysterious (and def asian) Siberia...
but Moscow and St.Petersburg are basically european cities, in every aspect imaginable...
That's what I thought too. |
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Reply #33 posted 02/01/14 4:01pm
Lammastide |
I hear you guys. But... eh.
From a geographic standpoint, yes, we have the Ural Mountains. But 75% of Russia's land is east of those mountains. And anyway, in what way do the Urals create a real European/Asian boundary? They kinda don't. One end of Kazakhstan runs significantly west under the Urals, too, but we'd be hard pressed to find anyone who'd consider it part of Europe. Meanwhile, states like Georgia and Armenia are considered European while they are entirely separated from a contiguous Europe by the Caucasus Mountains to the north.
And from a cultural/social/economic standpoint, the relationship western Russia has to Europe is quite similar to that between, say, the whole of Africa north of the Sahara and the Arabian Peninsula -- and no one I know considers North African cities to be a part of the "Middle East," or vice versa.
It just seems to me these delineations are pretty arbitrary and often seem more to do with those with whom people don't want to be associated rather than those with whom they might be associated along less trumped-up measures. [Edited 2/1/14 16:17pm] Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” |
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Reply #34 posted 02/01/14 4:06pm
Lammastide |
^ All that said, I support self-definition. If Russians wanna be European, so be it. Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” |
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Reply #35 posted 02/01/14 4:14pm
Dave1992
|
Lammastide said:
I hear you guys. But... eh.
From a geographic standpoint, yes, we have the Ural Mountains. But 75% of Russia's land is east of those mountains. And anyway, in what way do the Urals create a real European/Asian boundary? They kinda don't. Kazakhstan runs significantly west under the Urals, but we'd be hard pressed to find anyone who'd consider it part of Europe. Meanwhile, states like Georgia and Armenia are considered European while they are entirely separated from a contiguous Europe by the Caucasus Mountains to the north.
And from a cultural/social/economic standpoint, the relationship Russia has to Europe is quite similar to that between, say, the whole of Africa north of the Sahara and the Arabian Peninsula -- and no one I know considers North African cities to be a part of the Middle East, or vice versa.
It just seems to me these delineations are pretty arbitrary and often seem more to do with those with whom people don't want to be associated, rather than those with whom they might be associated along less trumped-up measures.
[Edited 2/1/14 16:04pm]
The Euro-Asian border South of Kazakhstan is not clearly defined and often a topic of discussion. While it's quite clear with Kazakhstan (which is said to only have about 5% of its landmass in Europe). Georgie and the likes are not clearly Asian and European, at least not geographically, because there is no set Euro-Asian border in their region (or, alternatively, there are many different).
I still think the strong cultural link Russia has with central and Eastern Europe plays a big part in it still feeling "close" to many Europeans, and therefore it being considered (at least partly) European.
Of course all these borders are somehow "arbitrary". If you trust in the Ural being a geographical border, than a huge chunk of Russia is actually Europes biggest country with many many millions of people living there.
If you meant that it's generally arbitrary to consider Russia European, just because a part of it is West of the Ural, then yeah, so be it. It's still considered to belong to Europe by all Europeans and that's also how it is taught at schools.
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Reply #36 posted 02/01/14 4:18pm
Dave1992
|
Furthermore, it is very difficult to even define Russia on a "cultural/social/economic" scale, because it is inhabited by so many completely different cultures who all live under completely different (geographical) circumstances.
However, the European part of Russia is very much Eastern-European! Only that there's some people who are massively rich, and many who are massively poor, but overall their values, culture and politics don't differ much from, say, Poland. |
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Reply #37 posted 02/01/14 4:26pm
PurpleJedi
|
THIRTY?!?!?!?!?
Here we go (I am not cheating...no google...and I did not read a single previous post);
- AMSTERDAM
- BARCELONA
- MADRID
- LONDON
- PRAGUE
- MOSCOW
- ST. PETERSBURG
- VATICAN CITY
- ANDORRA LA VELLA
- BERLIN
- DUBLIN
- VENICE
- ROME
- MILAN
- VIENNA
- MONACO (It's a city, right?)
- SOCHI
- GLASGOW
- SARAJEVO
- KIEV
- COPENHAGEN
- FRANKFURT
- HAMBURG(?) - where the hamburger came from
- BOLOGNA
- SOFIA (capital of Bulgaria?)
- ATHENS
- GRANADA???
- BOHN???
- YORK???
- BRUSSELS!!!
Those last 4 were a killer...how did I do?
By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory! |
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Reply #38 posted 02/01/14 4:30pm
Lammastide |
Dave1992 said:
Lammastide said:
I hear you guys. But... eh.
From a geographic standpoint, yes, we have the Ural Mountains. But 75% of Russia's land is east of those mountains. And anyway, in what way do the Urals create a real European/Asian boundary? They kinda don't. Kazakhstan runs significantly west under the Urals, but we'd be hard pressed to find anyone who'd consider it part of Europe. Meanwhile, states like Georgia and Armenia are considered European while they are entirely separated from a contiguous Europe by the Caucasus Mountains to the north.
And from a cultural/social/economic standpoint, the relationship Russia has to Europe is quite similar to that between, say, the whole of Africa north of the Sahara and the Arabian Peninsula -- and no one I know considers North African cities to be a part of the Middle East, or vice versa.
It just seems to me these delineations are pretty arbitrary and often seem more to do with those with whom people don't want to be associated, rather than those with whom they might be associated along less trumped-up measures.
[Edited 2/1/14 16:04pm]
The Euro-Asian border South of Kazakhstan is not clearly defined and often a topic of discussion. While it's quite clear with Kazakhstan (which is said to only have about 5% of its landmass in Europe). Georgie and the likes are not clearly Asian and European, at least not geographically, because there is no set Euro-Asian border in their region (or, alternatively, there are many different).
I still think the strong cultural link Russia has with central and Eastern Europe plays a big part in it still feeling "close" to many Europeans, and therefore it being considered (at least partly) European.
Of course all these borders are somehow "arbitrary". If you trust in the Ural being a geographical border, than a huge chunk of Russia is actually Europes biggest country with many many millions of people living there.
But I don't trust it!
If you meant that it's generally arbitrary to consider Russia European, just because a part of it is West of the Ural, then yeah, so be it. It's still considered to belong to Europe by all Europeans and that's also how it is taught at schools.
Something interesting: Russia was taught alternately as part of Asia and Europe in the American schools i attended... but always with a certain degree of qualification, rambling and even a sense of irony from my teachers with respect to Europe. They had far less trouble explaining how it was Asian. As a matter of fact, certain teachers had a tough time even explaining why Europe was a continent unto itself!
If I'm being entirely honest, these silly nondescript separations only made sense when/if the equally silly factor of race came into play. (But I don't want to sully this fun, lighthearted thread with a racial discussion.)
[Edited 2/1/14 16:42pm] Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” |
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Reply #39 posted 02/01/14 4:32pm
Lammastide |
Dave1992 said:
Furthermore, it is very difficult to even define Russia on a "cultural/social/economic" scale, because it is inhabited by so many completely different cultures who all live under completely different (geographical) circumstances.
However, the European part of Russia is very much Eastern-European! Only that there's some people who are massively rich, and many who are massively poor, but overall their values, culture and politics don't differ much from, say, Poland.
I will trust you on this.
Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” |
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Reply #40 posted 02/01/14 4:34pm
PurpleJedi
|
Paris!!!!
How could I have forgotten Paris???? By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory! |
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Reply #41 posted 02/01/14 4:36pm
Dave1992
|
PurpleJedi said:
THIRTY?!?!?!?!?
Here we go (I am not cheating...no google...and I did not read a single previous post);
- AMSTERDAM
- BARCELONA
- MADRID
- LONDON
- PRAGUE
- MOSCOW
- ST. PETERSBURG
- VATICAN CITY
- ANDORRA LA VELLA
- BERLIN
- DUBLIN
- VENICE
- ROME
- MILAN
- VIENNA
- MONACO (It's a city, right?)
- SOCHI
- GLASGOW
- SARAJEVO
- KIEV
- COPENHAGEN
- FRANKFURT
- HAMBURG(?) - where the hamburger came from
- BOLOGNA
- SOFIA (capital of Bulgaria?)
- ATHENS
- GRANADA???
- BOHN???
- YORK???
- BRUSSELS!!!
Those last 4 were a killer...how did I do?
You did well! Most people probably wouldn't consider Andorra, because it's a tiny town at most. And if no. 28 is meant to be the German city, it's Bonn!
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Reply #42 posted 02/01/14 4:38pm
ThisOne |
Paris Rome Milan Venice Athens Stockholm Barcelona Moscow Amsterdam Berlin Copenhagen I know more but can't think because of the heat!!! mailto:www.iDon'tThinkSo.com.Uranus |
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Reply #43 posted 02/01/14 4:40pm
Dave1992
|
ThisOne said:
Paris Rome Milan Venice Athens Stockholm Barcelona Moscow Amsterdam Berlin Copenhagen I know more but can't think because of the heat!!!
Are you saying you need to get undressed asap?
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Reply #44 posted 02/01/14 4:40pm
PurpleJedi
|
Dave1992 said:
PurpleJedi said:
THIRTY?!?!?!?!?
Here we go (I am not cheating...no google...and I did not read a single previous post);
- AMSTERDAM
- BARCELONA
- MADRID
- LONDON
- PRAGUE
- MOSCOW
- ST. PETERSBURG
- VATICAN CITY
- ANDORRA LA VELLA
- BERLIN
- DUBLIN
- VENICE
- ROME
- MILAN
- VIENNA
- MONACO (It's a city, right?)
- SOCHI
- GLASGOW
- SARAJEVO
- KIEV
- COPENHAGEN
- FRANKFURT
- HAMBURG(?) - where the hamburger came from
- BOLOGNA
- SOFIA (capital of Bulgaria?)
- ATHENS
- GRANADA???
- BOHN???
- YORK???
- BRUSSELS!!!
Those last 4 were a killer...how did I do?
You did well! Most people probably wouldn't consider Andorra, because it's a tiny town at most. And if no. 28 is meant to be the German city, it's Bonn!
Yes, I meant BONN in Germany, and I know about Andorra from high school...looking up the world's smallest countries after reading "The Mouse That Roared". I was going to include Luxemburg and San Marino but wasn't sure if they had capital cities with a different name or not.
By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory! |
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Reply #45 posted 02/01/14 4:41pm
Lammastide |
PurpleJedi said:
Paris!!!!
How could I have forgotten Paris????
I did it, too. Odd, eh?
Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” |
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Reply #46 posted 02/01/14 4:42pm
PurpleJedi
|
Dave1992 said:
ThisOne said:
Paris Rome Milan Venice Athens Stockholm Barcelona Moscow Amsterdam Berlin Copenhagen I know more but can't think because of the heat!!!
Are you saying you need to get undressed asap?
I think that's EXACTLY what she's saying...
...can we continue this conversation on Skype, ThisOne? By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory! |
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Reply #47 posted 02/01/14 4:42pm
PurpleJedi
|
Lammastide said:
PurpleJedi said:
Paris!!!!
How could I have forgotten Paris????
I did it, too. Odd, eh?
By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory! |
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Reply #48 posted 02/01/14 4:46pm
ThisOne |
Dave1992 said:
ThisOne said: Paris Rome Milan Venice Athens Stockholm Barcelona Moscow Amsterdam Berlin Copenhagen I know more but can't think because of the heat!!!
Are you saying you need to get undressed asap?
Yep!!!! Remember my bare arse Poem..... Well it's about to get wet in the waters of my pool... X mailto:www.iDon'tThinkSo.com.Uranus |
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Reply #49 posted 02/01/14 4:46pm
Dave1992
|
ThisOne said:
Dave1992 said:
Are you saying you need to get undressed asap?
Yep!!!! Remember my bare arse Poem...... Well it's about to get wet in the waters of my pool... X
I remeber your bare arse... poem.
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Reply #50 posted 02/01/14 4:50pm
ThisOne |
PurpleJedi said:
Dave1992 said:
ThisOne said: Paris Rome Milan Venice Athens Stockholm Barcelona Moscow Amsterdam Berlin Copenhagen I know more but can't think because of the heat!!!
Are you saying you need to get undressed asap?
I think that's EXACTLY what she's saying...
...can we continue this conversation on Skype, ThisOne? How come we have never skyped????? ! U don't need to worry Jedi..... I already know snow causes shrinkage so to help your ego u know we can always org note!!! ! mailto:www.iDon'tThinkSo.com.Uranus |
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Reply #51 posted 02/01/14 4:51pm
Dave1992
|
ThisOne said:
PurpleJedi said:
I think that's EXACTLY what she's saying...
...can we continue this conversation on Skype, ThisOne?
How come we have never skyped????? ! U don't need to worry Jedi...... I already know snow causes shrinkage so to help your ego u know we can always org note!!! !
The snow has already melted away in Vienna, though...
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Reply #52 posted 02/01/14 4:55pm
ThisOne |
Dave1992 said:
ThisOne said: PurpleJedi said:
I think that's EXACTLY what she's saying...
...can we continue this conversation on Skype, ThisOne?
How come we have never skyped????? ! U don't need to worry Jedi..... I already know snow causes shrinkage so to help your ego u know we can always org note!!! !
The snow has already melted away in Vienna, though...
Oh yes!! ! Yipeeeee!! !!! Vienna..... 1 more 4 my list.... Thank u Dave... ! mailto:www.iDon'tThinkSo.com.Uranus |
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Reply #53 posted 02/01/14 5:08pm
jone70 |
PurpleJedi said:
THIRTY?!?!?!?!?
Here we go (I am not cheating...no google...and I did not read a single previous post);
- AMSTERDAM
- BARCELONA
- MADRID
- LONDON
- PRAGUE
- MOSCOW
- ST. PETERSBURG
- VATICAN CITY
- ANDORRA LA VELLA
- BERLIN
- DUBLIN
- VENICE
- ROME
- MILAN
- VIENNA
- MONACO (It's a city, right?)
- SOCHI
- GLASGOW
- SARAJEVO
- KIEV
- COPENHAGEN
- FRANKFURT
- HAMBURG(?) - where the hamburger came from
- BOLOGNA
- SOFIA (capital of Bulgaria?)
- ATHENS
- GRANADA???
- BOHN???
- YORK???
- BRUSSELS!!!
Those last 4 were a killer...how did I do?
Monaco isn't a city, it's a principality. Monte Carlo is the city.
The check. The string he dropped. The Mona Lisa. The musical notes taken out of a hat. The glass. The toy shotgun painting. The things he found. Therefore, everything seen–every object, that is, plus the process of looking at it–is a Duchamp. |
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Reply #54 posted 02/01/14 5:13pm
Dave1992
|
jone70 said:
PurpleJedi said:
THIRTY?!?!?!?!?
Here we go (I am not cheating...no google...and I did not read a single previous post);
- AMSTERDAM
- BARCELONA
- MADRID
- LONDON
- PRAGUE
- MOSCOW
- ST. PETERSBURG
- VATICAN CITY
- ANDORRA LA VELLA
- BERLIN
- DUBLIN
- VENICE
- ROME
- MILAN
- VIENNA
- MONACO (It's a city, right?)
- SOCHI
- GLASGOW
- SARAJEVO
- KIEV
- COPENHAGEN
- FRANKFURT
- HAMBURG(?) - where the hamburger came from
- BOLOGNA
- SOFIA (capital of Bulgaria?)
- ATHENS
- GRANADA???
- BOHN???
- YORK???
- BRUSSELS!!!
Those last 4 were a killer...how did I do?
Monaco isn't a city, it's a principality. Monte Carlo is the city.
Actually, Monte Carlo is only one part of the city (the famous one with all the casinos and stuff). The actual city is called Monaco, too!
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Reply #55 posted 02/01/14 5:26pm
jone70 |
Dave1992 said:
jone70 said:
Monaco isn't a city, it's a principality. Monte Carlo is the city.
Actually, Monte Carlo is only one part of the city (the famous one with all the casinos and stuff). The actual city is called Monaco, too!
Actually I've been there so I know that Monaco is the "country" and Monte Carlo is the city. The check. The string he dropped. The Mona Lisa. The musical notes taken out of a hat. The glass. The toy shotgun painting. The things he found. Therefore, everything seen–every object, that is, plus the process of looking at it–is a Duchamp. |
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Reply #56 posted 02/01/14 5:27pm
aardvark15 |
jone70 said:
Dave1992 said:
Actually, Monte Carlo is only one part of the city (the famous one with all the casinos and stuff). The actual city is called Monaco, too!
Actually I've been there so I know that Monaco is the "country" and Monte Carlo is the city.
Monte Carlo's only part of it..... |
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Reply #57 posted 02/01/14 5:30pm
jone70 |
aardvark15 said:
jone70 said:
Actually I've been there so I know that Monaco is the "country" and Monte Carlo is the city.
Monte Carlo's only part of it.....
I know. I've been there. Monte Carlo is the administrative / most populated quarter of the PRINCIPALITY of Monaco. Monaco is not a city. The check. The string he dropped. The Mona Lisa. The musical notes taken out of a hat. The glass. The toy shotgun painting. The things he found. Therefore, everything seen–every object, that is, plus the process of looking at it–is a Duchamp. |
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Reply #58 posted 02/01/14 5:47pm
728huey |
Ok, I'll try this.
1. London
2. Paris 3. Berlin 4. Glasgow 5. Dublin 6. Manchester 7. Cardiff 8. Birmingham 9. Belfast 10. Edinburgh 11. Reykjavik 12. Oslo 13. Stockholm 14. Helsinki
15. Orleans
16. Nice 17. Frankfurt
18. Munich 19. Bonn 20. Amsterdam
21. Brussels
22. The Hague 23. Torino (Turin) 24. Florence 25. Rome 26. Venice 27. Milan 28. Geneva 29. Zurich 30. Bern 31. Davos 32. Seville 33. Barcellona 34. Lisbon 35. Warsaw 36. Prague 37. Vienna 38. Budapest 39. Bucharest 40. Sofiya 41. Split 42. Sarajevo 43. Belgrade 44. Athens 45. Istanbul 46. Ankara 47. Riga
48. Vilnius 49. Kiev 50. Moscow
51. St. Petersburg 52. Sochi 53. Baku
54. Rotterdam
55. Vatican City
[Edited 2/1/14 18:05pm] |
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Reply #59 posted 02/01/14 5:54pm
728huey |
Dave1992 said:
Especially non-European orgers! I'd like to see which cities stick in your mind and for what reason.
Don't be embarrassed if you can't. Most Europeans probably couldn't name more than 5 U.S. cities.
I like this quiz, but sadly, there are a huge number of Americans who couldn't name five U.S. cities, and a larger number that couldn't name five U.S. cities outside of their region. For example, I'm sure there are people in the northeast of the USA (New York, New England) who could very easily tell you names of the cities within that region but would be hard pressed to name anything in the midwest (Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, etc.).
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