So OK, don't flame me here because usually I get flamed, but I usually have this debate with French people and French people are notorious idiotic pessimistic and critical pains in the ass, so I wanted a more international insight on this.

Basically the thing is that I read on Facebook every day or so that humanity is in DECLINE, many people write that about everything and nothing.

Thing is, I've been quite interested in History, I know where we come from, the Western civilization as well as the others, and I can't see anything that could be qualified as "decline".

2 me there r basically 2 possible points of view if u stick to a realistic view of things:

My position, which is to believe in progress, believe that we are just actually starting to get out of the Dark Ages, and that even though our grand grand grand grand grand children will see us as bloodthirsty barbarians, I can already discern a certain number of notable progresses in the human condition over the last century or so.

The other position, which makes sense, would be to say that the human nature is too rooted in selfishness and violence to allow us to believe in any kind of real progress: science will advance but there will at lyalways be poors, abused people, violence, wars, etc. in the world.

Of course I'm scandalously summing thing up for both views, we could write whole essays about all this but it's only a thread so I'm trying to stick to the basics of both reasoning.

But speaking of DECLINE? I don't get it. Decline implies that it was better at some point in the past. Decline implies that the human condittion was globally better than now at some point in the past. I fail to acknowledge such a thing, wheither talking of long time past or the recent past. When you know your History u know that such a thought is totally delusional. Even educated people have this stand, though: well, we know how far the human mind can lie to itself in the name of bad faith...

So if that was Facebook and French people I would now be the subject of loads of insults, I would be called names, I would be unanymously called a fool: it happens to me every day, I'm used to it so if u're gonna have fun be my guests

But this is an international forum, so maybe things can b a little different here.

So what's your stand?

I was listening to a conference that featured Mr. Neil deGrasse Tyson and he hit the nail on the head. There was a time not long ago where people envisioned the world of tomorrow, it was shiny bright and full of possibility, and everything within the culture reflected that attitude. Today, we our vision of tomorrow is full of misery, doom and disaster, we've lost a motivated generation to that mentality and it shows.

Well I think you should narrow down your question just a bit.

The human race, in & of itself, is on a definite UPSWING. Technologically, culturally, intellectually...we're more advanced than ever. We are exploring the cosmos for goodness' sake.

Civilization? Which one? Western civilization? Perhaps. The USA? Probably so.
For all our advances and progress...people are surprisingly unhealthy, unhappy & maladjusted.

You would think that with all that we have going for us, (I'm speaking about the USA, since this is where I live), we would be the happiest & most productive society since Atlantis.

But that's not the case. In spite of the ABUNDANCE of technology & resources available to us, we are less creative/productive than the generation of the post-war 50's. We are lazy. We eat too much crap. We have a sense of entitlement. We forgot how to debate, we learned to hate.

But that doesn't mean that human civilization as a WHOLE is doomed. The world fell into a bit of disarray after the fall of Rome, but other powers rose to fill the void. If America were to collapse tomorrow, it would be horrific for me personally, but humanity in general would persevere. I don't think that all this accumulated knowledge would go to waste.

My 2¢ anyway

as sure as we were born to die...

the prollum is, no-one wants to accept

that as bein enevitable.

i can't remember where this is from:

LIFE " why does everyone love me and hate you?"

DEATH " because you are the beautiful lie,

i am the ugly truth"

decline is relative. we have been programmed for thousands of years to regard this era as the 'end of times', but it is also the 'beginning of times'. we still have free will. love for one another

KingBAD said:

as sure as we were born to die...

the prollum is, no-one wants to accept

that as bein enevitable.

i can't remember where this is from:

LIFE " why does everyone love me and hate you?"

DEATH " because you are the beautiful lie,

i am the ugly truth"

i watched a cool documentary about the afterlife where the people who had died for a time, been clinically dead, and then come back to life were interviewed. they all said it was better on the other side. they didn't want to come back what if life really is just a dream??

No. If we were, we've been in decline since the first human arrived on Earth.

aardvark15 said:

Not at all.

We'r less civilized than we would like to think.

Don't forget the impact and enormity of changes over the last century.


The 10th century has been an amazing sprint in science. I mean, so much has happened in just one century! Women have control over their pregnancy (or not), fast transport takes people suddenly everywhere, fast processing of information and the inmense acces to information and contact globally.


It;s natural that these fundamental changes bring friction. The last couple of months showed us the the nepotism, corruption and strict monitoring of civilians that governs America. I don't think that is a bad thing. It finally is out and now it's up to the people to do something about it, or choose to stay ignorant.

I really think we will move towards a more balanced world. The times that a few worldleaders, who are caught up in pissing contests and drag continents into war because of their issues, will not last.

There will be justice trough transparency.


If nature does not give up on us, because we poisened and abused mother earth and her inhabitants pretty badly.

So, if Fukushima does not kill us, I think we have a change. But I really think it's up to to common people to make a change. In general, most people don't care about the environment, human rights or the corruption of their government. So, if that attitude continues, not much will change.

Timmy84 said:

No. If we were, we've been in decline since the first human arrived on Earth.

Arrived? From where?

SuperSoulFighter said:

aardvark15 said:

We live longer than ever, we're more accepting than we've been in a long log time, we're finally starting to see the error of our ways, more people are becoming idealogically aware rather than taking what their fee, we haven't been this well off since universal tribalism

Not so sure. In the early 1980s thousands of people in Holland protested against nuclear weapons.


These days, they only protest when their own money is concerned. And tribalism at least gives people a sense of belonging, of unity! Today we're all part of a European Union that's not a union at all, but a big soulless bureaucracy. Maybe we should go back to the tribalist days. Have small communities again. Let Scotland and Catalonia be independent!

Yes, and the result of these protest is a good reflection of the current status.

The government lied to us by saying there would not be nuclear weapons, just to shut us up.

And in the meantime, America has parked their weaponry in Holland all that time.

Now that we know that the US was not that trustworthy friend we thaught it was, the pressure of these nuclear weapons exemplify how the US controls The Netherlands now. If they want, they can easily drop those on us. Or on Russia, dragging The Netherlands with them in another horrific war.

I don't know about you, but I am really dissapointed with the hippies. They were full of great love talk, but in the end, the robbed the earth of her resources in order to get rich themselves. And start wars without reason or any respect for human kind.


But, now that te babyboomers slowly leave the stage, I do have better hope for the future. I don't think that kids of today will be so obsessed with claiming status by how loaded they are. I think that in the future status will be decided more by social factors.

The men of Devo answered this question many years ago:

De-evolution seems more real now than it ever did in 1978.

I do think Monsanto has played Russian Roulette with GMO's.

The high rate of infertility among men seems to be related to their food and pesticides.

So, that solves the problem of over population.

I don't think it was a wise thing to do. That actually might degenerate our genes. They are messing with genes without any sense of conscience or responsebility.

dJJ said:

I do think Monsanto has played Russian Roulette with GMO's.

The high rate of infertility among men seems to be related to their food and pesticides.

So, that solves the problem of over population.

I don't think it was a wise thing to do. That actually might degenerate our genes. They are messing with genes without any sense of conscience or responsebility.

A diet of too much soy is also responsible for the infertility among men.

TonyVanDam said:

dJJ said:

I do think Monsanto has played Russian Roulette with GMO's.

The high rate of infertility among men seems to be related to their food and pesticides.

So, that solves the problem of over population.

I don't think it was a wise thing to do. That actually might degenerate our genes. They are messing with genes without any sense of conscience or responsebility.

A diet of too much soy is also responsible for the infertility among men.

Yes, soy is genetically modified food.

Especially in America it's almost impossible to get soy or corn that is not genetically modified.

It's modified, so they can spray tons of Agent Orange Round up over the crops. Which is not very healthy.

Thing is, eventough Monsanto knows it's poisoning people, they don't care, as long as they make a good profit.

This board is on the decline,thanks to Parties,SeventeenDayzee,Tempest.

Sorry,we fucked it up

does this look like DECLINE, or just down DOWN???

morningsong said:

Uh, what is that?

that's one hellofa ski jump

but i guess you can play at home

either way, your senses will tell you

THAT'S A HELLA LONG DECLINE/DROP

Just to say i'm still here reading y'all even if I don't comment

KingBAD said:

morningsong said:

Uh, what is that?

that's one hellofa ski jump

but i guess you can play at home

either way, your senses will tell you

THAT'S A HELLA LONG DECLINE/DROP

I guess that's why there's a toilet bowl attached. Goodness. Not me.

Yes its in decline save the scooby snacks ..

[img:$uid]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/jonwolslau/scared.gif[/img:$uid]

KingBAD said:

does this look like DECLINE, or just down DOWN???

That is AWESOME!