TD3 said:

G3000 said:

How's this for a situation. Guy wants out of his marriage and willing to give the wife everything. All he wants are the kids. If they were able to make a amicable split, then great.

The wife can do whatever she wants and is able to start her life over. He just wants out.

So, the kids are like a commodity to be bartered for? I'll assume you didn't mean that way.

Unless a parents conduct puts a child life in harms way, a parent should never prevent or make it diffcult for the other parent to be in their child or children's lives.

No I didn't mean it that way. I think the couple will agree, the father would be better with full custody or a spilt like prittypriss described.

***

To be really married a couple must have created a relationship that included an "us" or a "we." Many people who are considering a divorce have never had a marriage that was anything more than two individuals meeting their own needs. They may have raised children and shared a home but they participated in those activities from a competitive rather than unified position. They would ask -- "Do I want to do this or that", rather than ask "Is this good for us?" If you have not developed a genuine "we" in your relationship this would be the time to either commit to learning how to do that or to admit that you have never really had a marriage.

Sorry if I sound confused...I am. I'm just starting to admit and talk about it. My thoughts are scattered as I'm tryting to make sense of it all before it gets worse.

G3000 said:

MoBetterBliss said:

ZombieKitten said:

excited said: It might not even be the sex that's an issue. Could be any number of things that make a couple incompatible. Things you never knew about your partner before - ie parenting style, You don't know that before kids. I could go on and on

very true

and it's funny how life can make you look at things differently... there was a time when i would have said there is no way i'd stay in a marriage for the kids

now?.. i couldn't see myself ever walking out on my children

As events happen in life, people change and grow. These changes can be a positive or a negative, depending upon the events and how they have interpreted those events. When you are talking a "couple", as you age and change and grow, you either do so together, as a couple, or you can grow apart. The person you married 10 years ago, is not the same person you are with today, but then again, you are not the same person today that you were 10 years ago. The person you were 10 years ago, fell in love with the person your spouse was 10 years ago, the person you are today may not love (nor even like) the person they are today. And the same is true in return.

I have always believed the kids deserve both parents. It's not a matter of what, we, the parents, deserve, it's what the kids deserve and need. As long as there is no abuse, if a couple truly have their child's best interests at heart, then setting aside your differences to allow both parents to have equality in their child's life, so the kids know at any time they can depend upon both parents to be there for them, is easy to do. It's when we, as parents, put our interests and needs above our childrens that we have these bitter and angry filled divorces, in which one parent is trying to use the children against the other.

You don't have to "walk out on your children", ever. My ex is as much a part of my children's lives as I am. I am very grateful and thankful for that because there are things he brings to parenting that I may not be able, and vice versa, and I think the kids benefit from what he brings to their lives and what I bring to their lives. It would be very sad, for our kids, if they were to lose one half of what they receive from us.

I just discussed this issue with some people at work.

Apparently ALOT of people nowadays feel "trapped" in their marriages.



Sad state of affairs for our society.

My daughter told me a few years ago back when she was in high school, she read a book that stated that the romantic feelings biologically, give or take, last for 4 years, long enough for people to make a connection and to begin procreation. And that it's the raising of offspring that is the motivator to maintain that relationship. Honestly I don't know, I felt kind of sad that she was getting jaded that early on, but then there was at least a part of her brain that was working when she entered into relationships.

Given the way most people talk that sounds like whatever she read was correct. Kind of sad really, especially give the expectations most have for all their lives.

morningsong said:

My daughter told me a few years ago back when she was in high school, she read a book that stated that the romantic feelings biologically, give or take, last for 4 years, long enough for people to make a connection and to begin procreation. And that it's the raising of offspring that is the motivator to maintain that relationship. Honestly I don't know, I felt kind of sad that she was getting jaded that early on, but then there was at least a part of her brain that was working when she entered into relationships.

Given the way most people talk that sounds like whatever she read was correct. Kind of sad really, especially give the expectations most have for all their lives.

I was just yesterday talking with my client (who is a marriage educator) about expectations.

A large part of the course she teaches is based on expectations. Couples fill in questionnaires and compare answers. Who talks about these things before they marry?

We were making fun of young couples, my client and I "oh no, not us. We are different, we love each other so much! " but you're NOT different, you are all the same

You get 10-15 years down the track and think WTF!!!

Your daughter isn't jaded, she has just considered something that shows itself in statistics (divorce, cheating etc) again and again.

Marriage isn't meant to make you happy, it's meant to make you MARRIED.

ZombieKitten said:

Marriage isn't meant to make you happy, it's meant to make you MARRIED.

^

Well, the nice thing is, if you don't want to get married, you don't have to.

*

God's intent is for it to be a blessing. . . . not a curse. There are couples on the planet that are more in love with each other 50 years down the line than they were when they first said "I do". If you marry the wrong person and are miserable day in and day out, you may end up in divorce. Or, it's your choice to stay in it and be miserable.

*

No one is trapped or stuck in a marriage (with or without kids). They may say they are but they aren't. It's very easy to get out of marriage if one puts their mind, heart & will into it.

*

[Edited 11/13/13 0:44am]

Tempest said:

Well, the nice thing is, if you don't want to get married, you don't have to.

*

God's intent is for it to be a blessing. . . . not a curse. There are couples on the planet that are more in love with each other 50 years down the line than they were when they first said "I do". If you marry the wrong person and are miserable day in and day out, you may end up in divorce. Or, it's your choice to stay in it and be miserable.

*

No one is trapped or stuck in a marriage (with or without kids). They may say they are but they aren't. It's very easy to get out of marriage if one puts their mind, heart & will into it.

*

[Edited 11/13/13 0:44am]

Tempest if it truly were that "easy" then it wouldn't be a struggle for untold number of people.

Divorce affects a family in many, many ways. Some good, some bad. There is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that children of divorce are affected negatively. Some moreso than others. When there is very minimal negative impact on their lives, it's an EASY decision to part ways. When there will be significant hardships, it's harder to make that choice.

ZombieKitten said:

I was just yesterday talking with my client (who is a marriage educator) about expectations.

A large part of the course she teaches is based on expectations. Couples fill in questionnaires and compare answers. Who talks about these things before they marry?

My bf and I do. If we get married we're going to do it right. I bought a book of questions to ask before you get married and I made us go through answers every so often together. Some of it was fun to talk about, some of it was difficult and some we didn't want to bother.

Of course, we're in our late 30's, so we've probably learned a bit more about relationships than someone who gets toegether in their teens or early 20's, so there's that.

PurpleJedi said:

Tempest said:

Well, the nice thing is, if you don't want to get married, you don't have to.

*

God's intent is for it to be a blessing. . . . not a curse. There are couples on the planet that are more in love with each other 50 years down the line than they were when they first said "I do". If you marry the wrong person and are miserable day in and day out, you may end up in divorce. Or, it's your choice to stay in it and be miserable.

*

No one is trapped or stuck in a marriage (with or without kids). They may say they are but they aren't. It's very easy to get out of marriage if one puts their mind, heart & will into it.

*

[Edited 11/13/13 0:44am]

Tempest if it truly were that "easy" then it wouldn't be a struggle for untold number of people.

Divorce affects a family in many, many ways. Some good, some bad. There is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that children of divorce are affected negatively. Some moreso than others. When there is very minimal negative impact on their lives, it's an EASY decision to part ways. When there will be significant hardships, it's harder to make that choice.

*

You're not doing the children (or anyone else) any favors by hanging in there and being miserable. Most of the time, the only reasons most people hang on is for dysfunctional reasons which include unhealthy soul ties and / or to please "the family". If you're miserable, the kids can see that & feel it. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out. You don't hang onto a marriage for the extended family either. It's YOUR life not theirs. You make a decision and go with it. I came from a very dysfunctional background (divorce included) and I can swear to you that it didn't make a hill of beans worth of difference if my parents were together or not. My parents being together would have been far worse than them being apart. Hanging in there just to hang in there is NOT GOOD.

*

Children of HORRIBLE marriages where people just hang in there and stay married just to stay married for appearances sake (the family, silly soul ties, dysfunction, etc.) are far more DEVASTATING to kids than divorce.

*

Many "hardships" that people talk about are really only soulish excuses not to do what they know they should be doing. They make it more difficult than it needs to be.

*

Feel free to flame away everyone.

tempest... can you just ignore my threads please?

i'm more than happy to ignore your posts in other threads

thanks

terrible idea

better a healthy separation (with the proper/legal care of the children/s by both parents after the divorce) than a HELLISH/FAKE "fantasy of a family"

[Edited 11/13/13 13:06pm]

CarrieMpls said:

ZombieKitten said:

I was just yesterday talking with my client (who is a marriage educator) about expectations.

A large part of the course she teaches is based on expectations. Couples fill in questionnaires and compare answers. Who talks about these things before they marry?

My bf and I do. If we get married we're going to do it right. I bought a book of questions to ask before you get married and I made us go through answers every so often together. Some of it was fun to talk about, some of it was difficult and some we didn't want to bother.

Of course, we're in our late 30's, so we've probably learned a bit more about relationships than someone who gets toegether in their teens or early 20's, so there's that.

Michael and I talked for 3 years ~ asked tough questions ~ thought hard ... and we STILL do ! I think that is a key to a healthy long term relationship ... many are not geared for real, honest communication though so it can become tough when they don't continue to grow and work together as well as independently. Now add a child or 3 and the communication needs to deepen and become even more important, you can not surf through a life together - well I can't !

Mach said:

CarrieMpls said:

My bf and I do. If we get married we're going to do it right. I bought a book of questions to ask before you get married and I made us go through answers every so often together. Some of it was fun to talk about, some of it was difficult and some we didn't want to bother.

Of course, we're in our late 30's, so we've probably learned a bit more about relationships than someone who gets toegether in their teens or early 20's, so there's that.

Michael and I talked for 3 years ~ asked tough questions ~ thought hard ... and we STILL do ! I think that is a key to a healthy long term relationship ... many are not geared for real, honest communication though so it can become tough when they don't continue to grow and work together as well as independently. Now add a child or 3 and the communication needs to deepen and become even more important, you can not surf through a life together - well I can't !

We still talk about stuff, though we've exhausted what we got out of the book. He has more hesitancy about marriage than I do so he'll often bring up "what if..." scenarios and we'll chat through how we see ourselves handling it.

He gets worried about considering every single possibility. I told him the more we talk through stuff for me, the more I understand and trust that we're willing to work through things together. We'll never think of everything after all. It's not even so much about loving every answer the other gives, but getting to understand each other's perspectives more and talk about how we'd work through differences.

I'd like to add this (related) question:

do people have kids just because they're married?

ZombieKitten said:

I wonder if it's just a MAN thing to insist that talking about something is making an issue or a "problem" out of something (which, when it was out of sight was out of mind and therefore nothing to worry about). OR is that like gas-lighting "you're overreacting. You're making this into a big deal" etc

No idea if it's a "man" thing, but it's not a thing w/my man. I've never felt uncomfortable bringing up anything to him and he's never made me feel that way. He may not want to talk about a topic right in the moment, but he will let me know that and we chat about it later. I will say we've had a fight over something that he didn't think was a big deal and I did and he told me so and I pointed out that that in itself was a problem - it wasn't a big deal to him but it was to me and he needed to understand that.

He's not so good at bringing problems up, though. He has a really hard time telling me when something is bothering him. We're working on that.

ZombieKitten said:

I wonder if it's just a MAN thing to insist that talking about something is making an issue or a "problem" out of something

not in this house

i think many people struggle to look at an issue with idea that you're simply there to try to resolve it

from what i've seen, a lot of dudes are like that

MoBetterBliss said:

ZombieKitten said:

I wonder if it's just a MAN thing to insist that talking about something is making an issue or a "problem" out of something

not in this house

i think many people struggle to look at an issue with idea that you're simply there to try to resolve it

from what i've seen, a lot of dudes are like that

I've also been told that crying is just going to make me upset

ZombieKitten said:

Tempest said:

PurpleJedi said:

Tempest if it truly were that "easy" then it wouldn't be a struggle for untold number of people.

Divorce affects a family in many, many ways. Some good, some bad. There is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that children of divorce are affected negatively. Some moreso than others. When there is very minimal negative impact on their lives, it's an EASY decision to part ways. When there will be significant hardships, it's harder to make that choice.

*

You're not doing the children (or anyone else) any favors by hanging in there and being miserable. Most of the time, the only reasons most people hang on is for dysfunctional reasons which include unhealthy soul ties and / or to please "the family". If you're miserable, the kids can see that & feel it. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out. You don't hang onto a marriage for the extended family either. It's YOUR life not theirs. You make a decision and go with it. I came from a very dysfunctional background (divorce included) and I can swear to you that it didn't make a hill of beans worth of difference if my parents were together or not. My parents being together would have been far worse than them being apart. Hanging in there just to hang in there is NOT GOOD.

*

Children of HORRIBLE marriages where people just hang in there and stay married just to stay married for appearances sake (the family, silly soul ties, dysfunction, etc.) are far more DEVASTATING to kids than divorce.

*

Many "hardships" that people talk about are really only soulish excuses not to do what they know they should be doing. They make it more difficult than it needs to be.

*

Feel free to flame away everyone.

I'm not arguing the case for staying in a bad marriage. NOT. AT. ALL.

But for some people it's a difficult decision, VERY difficult decision, and unless you are walking in their shoes & living their experiences, you shouldn't belittle their struggle.

That's all I'm saying.